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1Co 15:35  But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36  Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37  And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Co 15:38  But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

God giveth "it" a body. What is the "it" that is given a body?
Every seed is given a body. What is the seed that is given a body?

Obviously "it" and the seed are the same thing but what are they?

The plant.

The language is confusing, because "body" is used to mean a couple different things.

The question here is "how can the dead be raised if they no longer have a body?"  Paul likens resurrection to the growth of a plant.  A grain of wheat is tiny, much smaller than a whole stalk of wheat, so where does the rest of the plant (its "body") come from?  God causes it to grow.  If God can cause a whole stalk of wheat to grow from a tiny grain of wheat, He can likewise cause a new body to grow from the old body that was buried.

I might re-translate like this:

35 But some shall say, "how are the dead raised?  what body can they come back to?"

36 Foolish! What you are sowing does not grow, unless it dies.

37 And what you are sowing is not the whole plant that shall grow, but just a naked grain, whether wheat or some other.

38 God gives the plant a body, according to his plan (and gives to every seed a body according to its type).

39 Not all flesh is the same.  There is the flesh of men, but a different flesh of beasts, another of fishes, another of birds.

40 There are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies.  The value of the heavenly is different from that of the earthly.

41 The sun has its value, the moon a different, and the stars their own glory.  Even one star differs from another in esteem.

42 So also is the resurrection of corpses: burying in decay; awaking incorrupt.

43 Burying in dishonor, awaking in honor.  Burying in infirmity, awaking in vigor.

Well, anybody who has ever diagrammed a sentence can tell what that is.  "...that which thou sowest is not quickened, except IT die."   The referent to the word "IT" is "that which thou sowest". 

In other words, whatever goes into the ground, this is the "IT" which has died, and is the seed which is given its own body back again when "IT" is raised out of that ground.  But of course, in a changed, incorruptible condition that will never die again.

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Thu Oct 28, 2021 - 11:23:15
The plant.

The language is confusing, because "body" is used to mean a couple different things.

The question here is "how can the dead be raised if they no longer have a body?"  Paul likens resurrection to the growth of a plant.  A grain of wheat is tiny, much smaller than a whole stalk of wheat, so where does the rest of the plant (its "body") come from?  God causes it to grow.  If God can cause a whole stalk of wheat to grow from a tiny grain of wheat, He can likewise cause a new body to grow from the old body that was buried.

I might re-translate like this:

35 But some shall say, "how are the dead raised?  what body can they come back to?"

36 Foolish! What you are sowing does not grow, unless it dies.

37 And what you are sowing is not the whole plant that shall grow, but just a naked grain, whether wheat or some other.

38 God gives the plant a body, according to his plan (and gives to every seed a body according to its type).

39 Not all flesh is the same.  There is the flesh of men, but a different flesh of beasts, another of fishes, another of birds.

40 There are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies.  The value of the heavenly is different from that of the earthly.

41 The sun has its value, the moon a different, and the stars their own glory.  Even one star differs from another in esteem.

42 So also is the resurrection of corpses: burying in decay; awaking incorrupt.

43 Burying in dishonor, awaking in honor.  Burying in infirmity, awaking in vigor.

The language isn't confusing it's revealing. A seed isn't a plant, it's the instructions on how to build a plant. A seed gets planted in fertile dirt (corruption) where the body of the seed decays and dies. During that time DNA starts to construct the plant. If it's a wheat seed it'll build a wheat plant, if it's a barley seed it'll build a barley plant. The whole point is that the SEED, not the plant, has to die.

In the same way, human seed is planted in the womb. The seed bodies of the man and woman die and the DNA (seed) constructs the body. The seed may be caucasian seed or mongoloid seed but God giveth it a body.

None of those verses are talking about the resurrection body, it's all about the earthly body which Paul uses to illustrate the resurrection body. The resurrection body starts here:

Co 15:42  So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

The same analogy used with the plant seed and the human seed applies to the resurrection. A seed is planted in corruption, that seed then dies and then "it". So again, the question is what is "it"?

Quote from: 3 Resurrections on Thu Oct 28, 2021 - 11:26:17
Well, anybody who has ever diagrammed a sentence can tell what that is.  "...that which thou sowest is not quickened, except IT die."   The referent to the word "IT" is "that which thou sowest". 

In other words, whatever goes into the ground, this is the "IT" which has died, and is the seed which is given its own body back again when "IT" is raised out of that ground.  But of course, in a changed, incorruptible condition that will never die again.

You are right, the "it" is seed. That seed produces the earthly body but not the resurrection body. Paul hasn't talked about the resurrection body at that point. All of that is setting up the analogy that allows us to understand the resurrection body. So let's look at what Paul says about the resurrection body.

1Co 15:42  So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 
1Co 15:43  It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 
1Co 15:44  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 
1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

"It" in those verses tells us exactly what is raised at the resurrection. The first man Adam was MADE a LIVING SOUL and PLACED in a corruptible body of dust. The corruptible body of dust goes back to the dust forever.


1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

In the case of the wicked, Rob, you are absolutely correct that "The corruptible body of dust goes back to the dust forever."  The bodies of the wicked PERISH in this manner.

But this is NOT true of the bodies of the righteous after they have died.  That flesh form was purchased at great cost.  Christ paid a blood price for us that included the physical bodies of God's children of faith.  That is why Paul urged purity in 1 Cor. 6:19-20  of both the spirit AND the believers' physical bodies, both of which belonged to God.  "What, know ye not that your bodies are the Temple of the Holy Ghost; which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?  For ye are bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your BODY, and in your SPIRIT, which are God's". 

Christ owns our physical bodies, whether dead or living.  He will renovate and render incorruptible that physical property for which He has paid such an exorbitant, precious price of His own life's blood. Whoever in their natural mind would think Jesus would forever throw in the trash something He has gone to such lengths to pay for?  That reasoning makes no sense whatever, not even in the natural world of the ungodly. 

The same "IT" body that is sown into the ground is the very same identical "IT" body that experiences being raised in incorruption, in glory, and in power.     

Quote from: 3 Resurrections on Thu Oct 28, 2021 - 17:25:27
In the case of the wicked, Rob, you are absolutely correct that "The corruptible body of dust goes back to the dust forever."  The bodies of the wicked PERISH in this manner.

But this is NOT true of the bodies of the righteous after they have died.  That flesh form was purchased at great cost.  Christ paid a blood price for us that included the physical bodies of God's children of faith.  That is why Paul urged purity in 1 Cor. 6:19-20  of both the spirit AND the believers' physical bodies, both of which belonged to God.  "What, know ye not that your bodies are the Temple of the Holy Ghost; which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?  For ye are bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your BODY, and in your SPIRIT, which are God's". 

Christ owns our physical bodies, whether dead or living.  He will renovate and render incorruptible that physical property for which He has paid such an exorbitant, precious price of His own life's blood. Whoever in their natural mind would think Jesus would forever throw in the trash something He has gone to such lengths to pay for?  That reasoning makes no sense whatever, not even in the natural world of the ungodly. 

The same "IT" body that is sown into the ground is the very same identical "IT" body that experiences being raised in incorruption, in glory, and in power.   

All we have to do is substitute "it" to see which view is right.

1Co 15:42  So also is the resurrection of the dead. THE BODY is sown in corruption; THE BODY is raised in incorruption:

If "it" is the body, what corruption is this earthly body sown in?

1Co 15:42 (KJV) So also is the resurrection of the dead. THE SOUL is sown in corruption; THE SOUL is raised in incorruption:

We know that our soul was sown in this corrupt human body.

Moving on to the next discussion point.

Joh 11:25  Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26  And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

2 groups, both believe in Christ:
Group 1 are believers that are dead and will eventually will live at the resurrection.
Group 2 are believers who are alive that will never die.

Death can mean the condition we are in BEFORE salvation or the death of the body. What we have to figure out is which death is John 11:25-26 talking about. The answer is simple, it's the condition we are in before salvation because everybody dies a physical death. Group 1 can only be the Old Testament saints who couldn't pass from death to life because Christ had not yet come to pay for their sins. That all changed when Christ came and paid the debt.

So just as Paul in Corinthians told us the resurrection is the resurrection of the soul ("it"), Jesus also tells us the same in the book of John.