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Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Fri Apr 01, 2022 - 14:06:59
You have no idea what I'm talking about, do you?

Genesis IS arranged into sections with headers introducing them.  It's demonstrable:

Gen 2:4  These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Gen 5:1  This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Gen 6:9  These are the generations of Noah:
Gen 10:1  Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.
Gen 11:10  These are the generations of Shem:
Gen 11:27  Now these are the generations of Terah:
Gen 25:12  Now these are the generations of Ishmael
Gen 25:19  And these are the generations of Isaac, Abraham's son:
Gen 36:1  Now these are the generations of Esau, who is Edom.
Gen 37:2  These are the generations of Jacob.

Maybe next time don't contradict someone when you don't even understand what they're saying.

Jarrod

My bad, I was addressing her thoughts regarding a day or not, not literary structure or arrangements. I assumed since you are an old earther, you were saying she was right about that as well.

Quote from: Rella on Fri Apr 01, 2022 - 11:26:22
Jaime:

Take a walk into Gen 2 for a minute.

Look at verse 4 KJV (sigh) 4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

Surely you must agree that generations... no matter how they are used for this description is longer then 1 - 24 hour day?

Verse 4 NASB95  4This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven

Even the wording in this simple verse talks of the heavens and the earth "when they were created".

In the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven.

There is nothing here that suggests that was part of the YE creation. I submit the YE end of things is regarding Adam and forward..... and not until.

Two translations that seem to point to a possible OE creation

Gen 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28  And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29  And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30  And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Gen 1:31  And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Gen 2:1  Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2  And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3  And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

What do you do about the problem of another day after the day of Adam's creation, included in the as you state it YE creation week, which the fourth commandment backs up?

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The last sentence of the above commandment straight from God's mouth and hand, states that heaven, earth, the sea, and all that is in them, were finished on the sixth day. Then another day was established immediately following for rest and reflection upon no doubt, all that which God had already done. Speculation is one thing regarding that which we have no testimony from scripture to precisely define, it is another altogether when conclusive statements of scripture exist which do that very thing. Not just any scriptures, but those which the scriptures claim came directly from the mouth of God to humanity, as well as being written with His own finger in stone twice.

Quote from: The Barbarian on Fri Apr 01, 2022 - 21:41:49
I notice that Stephen Gould perhaps the most well-known "evolutionist" because of his popular essays on the subject, willingly took on a YE creationist as a doctoral candidate.   As Gould remarked, all that really counts is ability.

Just showing you that even a YE creationist was accepted as a doctoral candidate based on his ability, without regard for his religious beliefs.

As it should be. Though I understand the natural tendency of birds of a feather, flocking together.

It seems that the deal with Amo, is he finds hoofprints and says "Aha!  Unicorns."

Quote from: The Barbarian on Fri Apr 01, 2022 - 21:39:10
No kidding; monkeys are far too evolved in their own way to have ever given rise to humans.    Humans are phylogentically apes, not monkeys.

That question comes down to evidence.   Let's see what an honest and knowledgeable YE creationist says:
Evidences for Darwin's second expectation — of stratomorphic intermediate species — include such species as Baragwanathia27 (between rhyniophytes and lycopods), Pikaia28 (between echinoderms
and chordates), Purgatorius29 (between the tree shrews and the primates), and Proconsul30 (between the non-hominoid primates and the hominoids).
...
Evidence for not just one but for all three of the species level and above types of stratomorphic intermediates expected by macroevolutionary theory is surely strong evidence for macroevolutionary theory. Creationists therefore need to accept this fact.
YE creationist Dr. Kurt Wise, Toward a Creationist Understanding of Transitional Forms

It is retardation to believe we evolved from other apes.  Science becomes religion to some.

I think it is only YECs who claim that evolution is a theory about humans evolving from other apes.  Today's evolutionists really don't make that claim.

Quote from: 4WD on Sat Apr 02, 2022 - 13:54:34
I think it is only YECs who claim that evolution is a theory about humans evolving from other apes.  Today's evolutionists really don't make that claim.

I must have missed Barbarian saying he was a YEC.  Maybe you can point out when he said that.

Quote from: Jaime on Fri Apr 01, 2022 - 19:08:28
If it happened in an instantaneous bang that would have been worthy to make THAT semi clear in scripture, rather than mostly ambiguous or blurry. God did speak things into existence just not seemingly all in one instant, but as reported in scripture.

The earth itself was monumental to our ancestors, a brief explanation of it's creation an all living things was more than ample for the people of the day to try and comprehend. An explanation regarding the creation of the universe however, would be quite overwhelming to those same ears, especially since the common thought was that the sky and beyond was a dependent of the earth. God kept it simple, yet at the same time tells how all life and matter came to be over time.

I would say it tells it simply and how it came about pretty quickly.

I think the six days of creation tells the story over time. I've never really understood the literal six day account, it would have made much more sense to just "make it so". A single day of creating something doesn't really have any meaning or purpose other than to show it took time to make these things come to be.

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Sat Apr 02, 2022 - 14:07:54
I must have missed Barbarian saying he was a YEC.  Maybe you can point out when he said that.

I must have missed Barbarian ever saying that evolution is a theory about humans evolving from other apes.

Alan, as I have said before, I believe God was setting a pattern of time keeping. He set the sun and moon up to keep track of days, weeks, months and seasons and the Sabbath and Jubilee and Appointed times. It was a tutorial for Adam and Eve and all of mankind throughout the Bible.  The context of the narrative of Genesis 1 was for a purpose not just a coincidence for primitive unlearned mankind. I would think a 24 hour day context would be perfectly congruant for the days of creation.

Quote from: Jaime on Sat Apr 02, 2022 - 19:53:49
Alan, as I have said before, I believe God was setting a pattern of time keeping. He set the sun and moon up to keep track of days, weeks, months and seasons and the Sabbath and Jubilee and Appointed times.

But NOT until verse 14.... vs 14 thru 19

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

They were different from what was done in verse 3-4

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

That God...   5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

I read this to say if God made light on day one to divide the darkness... while he was creating....

If on day 4 he was going to do the sun and moon...( 3 days later)...  to make the 24 hour day there would be no reason for him to do just ight by itself on on day 1 if creation was 7 literal 24 hour days .

How better to set the tone for the context of time than to use the word day from the very first few verses rather than leave the readers wondering "what happened to the first three days God? Days were just days with a sun in the sky. If God's time reference was different, I would assume the Holy spirit woulda indicated it in the communication to us.

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Sat Apr 02, 2022 - 14:07:54
I must have missed Barbarian saying he was a YEC.  Maybe you can point out when he said that.

You're a little confused.   Humans are phylogenetically apes.   It doesn't mean we evolved from any ape species here today.   They are all far too evolved in their own directions to have give rise to humans.   Rather humans and apes have a common ancestor.   Since humans and chimpanzees are anatomically and genetically closer to each other than either is to any other living ape species, we share a common ancestor within the clade of apes.

Quote from: Alan on Sat Apr 02, 2022 - 18:38:41
I think the six days of creation tells the story over time. I've never really understood the literal six day account, it would have made much more sense to just "make it so". A single day of creating something doesn't really have any meaning or purpose other than to show it took time to make these things come to be.

Yes, many people just don't see the significance of many scriptures. As though God does or says things which have no significance. Scripture itself though, testifies to the opposite effect.

2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ saw things very differently from such.

Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Our Lord Jesus Christ was and is God. He created this world the way He did for a reason, because everything He does has real live righteous, holy, and pure, intent, purpose, and effect. How does that which He formed from the dust of the earth, turn to Him and say, I see no significance in the way you did this or that? What is the end of such audacity?

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.....................................................
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Why will the lost be lost, but because they determined certain words of our Lord, had no significance. My advice is to seriously consider, understand, and submit to the word of God. Such is life itself. The following commandment of God expresses exactly why the days are important, and one very prominent reason for establishing them.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The days of creation, and the seventh day in particular have a very specific and monumental purpose, entailing the difference between life and death. They serve as a weekly reminder of just who God really is, and just who we really are in relation to Him. Those who forget such, or choose to believe that which radically alters this truth, are in danger of losing their souls. As so very many already have, and unfortunately so many yet will. When God speaks, people better listen. Their very lives depend upon it.

Quote from: The Barbarian on Sun Apr 03, 2022 - 07:44:52
You're a little confused.   Humans are phylogenetically apes.   It doesn't mean we evolved from any ape species here today.   They are all far too evolved in their own directions to have give rise to humans.   Rather humans and apes have a common ancestor.   Since humans and chimpanzees are anatomically and genetically closer to each other than either is to any other living ape species, we share a common ancestor within the clade of apes.

I think you are the one confused.  I believe the idea that we humans and apes have a common ancestor is idiotic.

QuoteI find this article to be interesting. The quoted section below is only a part of a longer read.

https://medium.com/understanding-reality/7-examples-of-proof-that-giants-existed-7e2de8806a0f

A Giant Cover-up

Over the last 100+ years, thousands of giant skeletons have been found throughout the world, especially in the American Midwest. So where is the evidence?
One way or another, the Smithsonian Institute quickly caught wind of most of these giant findings, and made the evidence "disappear." In most cases, those who exhumed the giant skeletons reported their findings immediately to the Smithsonian, naively trusting the Institute to do what was in the public interest.

Apparently the Smithsonian's concept of "in the public interest" includes "protecting Darwin's theory of evolution, and the established historical narrative, at all costs." In other words, lying to the public.

In August of 2015, a US Supreme court ruling forced the Smithsonian Institute to admit that it had been covering up and destroying tens of thousands of giant skeletal remains since the early 1900's.

The case against the Smithsonian was made by the American Institution of Alternative Archeology (AIAA), and the irrefutable evidence came from whistle blowers within the Smithsonian, who admitted to the existence of documents that allegedly proved the destruction of tens of thousands of human skeletons reaching between 6 feet and 12 feet in height, a reality mainstream archeology can not admit to for various reasons.


A spokesman for the AIAA, James Churward, explained:

"There has been a major cover up by western archaeological institutions since the early 1900′s to make us believe that America was first colonized by Asian peoples migrating through the Bering Strait 15,000 years ago, when in fact, there are hundreds of thousands of burial mounds all over America which the Natives claim were there a long time before them, and that show traces of a highly developed civilization, complex use of metal alloys and where giant human skeleton remains are frequently found but still go unreported in the media and news outlets."


( A picture of a femur found is in the link)
A giant human femur uncovered in Ohio in 2011 by the
American Association for Alternative Archeology,
similar to the evidence presented in court.

A turning point of the court case was when a 1.3 meter long human femur bone was shown as evidence in court of the existence of such giant human bones.

The evidence came as a blow to the Smithsonian's lawyers as the bone had been stolen from the Smithsonian by one of their high level curators in the mid 1930′s who had kept the bone all his life and which had admitted on his deathbed in writing of the undercover operations of the Smithsonian.

"It is a terrible thing that is being done to the American people," he wrote in the letter.

"We are hiding the truth about the forefathers of humanity, our ancestors, the giants who roamed the earth as recalled in the Bible and ancient texts of the world."

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Tue Apr 05, 2022 - 19:10:04
I think you are the one confused.  I believe the idea that we humans and apes have a common ancestor is idiotic.

I would certainly hope that your alternative explanation is one of pure faith, there is really nothing else that stands up to Barbarian's statement.

Quote from: Alan on Tue Apr 05, 2022 - 19:42:22
I would certainly hope that your alternative explanation is one of pure faith, there is really nothing else that stands up to Barbarian's statement.

His pure faith of "science" and my pure faith of scripture?  I don't find it probable that life transitions in such a manner to transition from ones species to another entirely new species.

In Science, not all theories are equal.  You can agree with Barbarian's statement on your pure faith as well.

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Tue Apr 05, 2022 - 20:11:30
His pure faith of "science" and my pure faith of scripture?  I don't find it probable that life transitions in such a manner to transition from ones species to another entirely new species.

In Science, not all theories are equal.  You can agree with Barbarian's statement on your pure faith as well.

I think you missed my point. It isn't about what I believe in, it's about a reasonable belief aside from the demonstrable science. I accept that people have faith in scripture and where that leads them to, what I don't accept is half-arsed science that makes attempts to overturn widely accepted scientific theory.

Quote from: Alan on Tue Apr 05, 2022 - 23:54:03

I think you missed my point. It isn't about what I believe in, it's about a reasonable belief aside from the demonstrable science. I accept that people have faith in scripture and where that leads them to, what I don't accept is half-arsed science that makes attempts to overturn widely accepted scientific theory.

My reasonable belief is that the widely accepted science isn't 100% correct.  I don't have an alternative theory to throw out there.  A skeptic doesn't need another theory to realize the current one has issues.  Our current scientific explanation is in its infancy, as Darwin's book On the Origin of Species was published in 1859. 

Quote from: Alan on Tue Apr 05, 2022 - 23:54:03

I think you missed my point. It isn't about what I believe in, it's about a reasonable belief aside from the demonstrable science. I accept that people have faith in scripture and where that leads them to, what I don't accept is half-arsed science that makes attempts to overturn widely accepted scientific theory.

Which do you believe is more reliable, widely accepted scientific theory, or God's word?

https://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_evolution

QuoteSince World War II a majority of the most prominent and vocal defenders of the evolutionary position which employs methodological naturalism have been atheists.[2] The prominent new atheist, agnostic and evolutionist Richard Dawkins claims that "Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist".[3]

The majority of Western World atheists are evolutionists. As far as nontheist Buddhism, as no major beliefs/principles of Buddhism are contrary to it, many Buddhists are also evolutionists.[4][5]

The Discovery Institute reported:

"Compare just these two findings, reported in a survey we commissioned in 2016. On one hand:

Nearly 7 in 10 atheists and more than 4 in 10 agnostics say that for them personally, unguided chemical evolution and Darwin's mutation/natural selection mechanism have made the existence of God "less likely."

On the other:

By contrast, 6 in 10 theists and more than 2 in 10 agnostics say the existence in nature of "many things that are exquisitely designed and highly complex" has made the existence of God "more likely" for them personally.[6]

The atheist philosopher and evolutionist Michael Ruse admitted:

"[E]volution, akin to religion, involves making certain a priori or metaphysical assumptions, which at some level cannot be proven empirically.[7]   "
Michael Ruse also indicated: "Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today."[8]

In the their Question evolution! campaign, Creation Ministries International asserts that evolution is a religion.[9] The focus of the Question evolution! campaign is on 15 questions that evolutionists cannot adequately answer.[10] The 15 Questions that evolutionists cannot satisfactorily answer can be found at their webpage entitled 15 questions for evolutionists.

Quote from: Amo on Wed Apr 06, 2022 - 12:19:24
Which do you believe is more reliable, widely accepted scientific theory, or God's word?

Both, they compliment each other beautifully. 

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Wed Apr 06, 2022 - 12:11:28
Our current scientific explanation is in its infancy, as Darwin's book On the Origin of Species was published in 1859.

Scientists have probably updated it since then.  I'm not really sure what the most current theory is.

Quote from: Alan on Wed Apr 06, 2022 - 14:38:20

Both, they compliment each other beautifully. 

I hear that a lot, or read it, but no one ever tries to share exactly how they do complement each other. Saying it is one thing, actually quoting scripture and explaining how it compliments the science, is another.

Quote from: Amo on Wed Apr 06, 2022 - 16:29:07
I hear that a lot, or read it, but no one ever tries to share exactly how they do complement each other. Saying it is one thing, actually quoting scripture and explaining how it compliments the science, is another.

That's because you don't appear to have the ability to stop and smell the roses, if God didn't tell you to smell them, you're not smelling. 

Quote from: Amo on Wed Apr 06, 2022 - 16:29:07
I hear that a lot, or read it, but no one ever tries to share exactly how they do complement each other. Saying it is one thing, actually quoting scripture and explaining how it compliments the science, is another.

They're opposite tactics.  Faith is about understanding and assenting to what you hear/read.  Science fundamentally questions every tenet and tries to disprove it. 

They're mutually exclusive.

It makes my head hurt when people use science to try to prop up their bad ideas about Scripture.  Especially when they aren't scientists and don't know what they're talking about.

Jarrod

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Thu Apr 07, 2022 - 02:45:18
They're opposite tactics.  Faith is about understanding and assenting to what you hear/read.  Science fundamentally questions every tenet and tries to disprove it. 

They're mutually exclusive.

It makes my head hurt when people use science to try to prop up their bad ideas about Scripture.  Especially when they aren't scientists and don't know what they're talking about.

Jarrod

They should be mutually exclusive.  Science should be as you say.  Scientists should be skeptics and seek to keep proving or disproving.  But so many people believe in science as if it is a religion.  Money and politics get in the way of truth.

The primary accepted answer in science for a particular topic is final, no longer up for debate.  And that is sad.

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Thu Apr 07, 2022 - 11:18:18

The primary accepted answer in science for a particular topic is final, no longer up for debate.  And that is sad.

That is incorrect. Scientific theory is always adaptable to new evidence and/or data. Science never sets out to prove anything, but I'm sure you're well versed on the definition of science itself.

Quote from: Alan on Thu Apr 07, 2022 - 19:39:04

That is incorrect. Scientific theory is always adaptable to new evidence and/or data. Science never sets out to prove anything, but I'm sure you're well versed on the definition of science itself.

Not incorrect.  I was referring to how many people look at science.  Even those who teach it.

Quote from: Alan on Wed Apr 06, 2022 - 19:01:45

That's because you don't appear to have the ability to stop and smell the roses, if God didn't tell you to smell them, you're not smelling. 

How does not comparing scientific theories with the word of God, and knowing or explaining them accordingly, equal smelling roses?

Quote from: Amo on Fri Apr 08, 2022 - 06:54:25
How does not comparing scientific theories with the word of God, and knowing or explaining them accordingly, equal smelling roses?

The word of God is not about scientific theories; neither does it speak of scientific theories.  Those who would actually do that, i.e., compare scientific theories with the word of God, more than likely know very little about either.  The Church in the 13th, 14th and 15th centuries did just that in a variety of ways. It was a part of the inquisitions.

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Thu Apr 07, 2022 - 02:45:18
They're opposite tactics.  Faith is about understanding and assenting to what you hear/read.  Science fundamentally questions every tenet and tries to disprove it. 

They're mutually exclusive.

It makes my head hurt when people use science to try to prop up their bad ideas about Scripture.  Especially when they aren't scientists and don't know what they're talking about.

Jarrod

The world is filled with people declaring that those who disagree with them simply don't know what they are talking about. It never makes such so. God's word is truth, not just truth, but the standard of truth to which all others will one day submit. All that which will be found to actually contradict it, will be condemned as the lies that they are, and understood as the silly ramblings of those who simply had no clue due to immense lack of knowledge. As though they could accurately determine the truth of our origins and all creation which actually exists, from within the box we have been placed. Not!

2Ki 6:15 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do? 16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them. 17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha. 18 And when they came down to him, Elisha prayed unto the LORD, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness. And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.

We are the single most ignorant beings of God's creation. We are not even privy to the dimensions within which they exist, but by special revelation from God Himself. Yet we compose vain imaginings and speculations which contradict the word of God given to us for instruction, doctrine, and reproof concerting truth. Saying they are the truth rather than God's word. Ignorant fools that we truly are. So be it. Nevertheless -

Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. 19  I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right. 20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save. 21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. 24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. 25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Quote from: Amo on Fri Apr 08, 2022 - 07:25:16
The world is filled with people declaring that those who disagree with them simply don't know what they are talking about. It never makes such so.

And you are the epitome of those people who over and over again attempt to extract scientific theories from the Bible or attempt to show how scientific theories contradict the Bible.