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Quote from: 4WD on Fri Apr 08, 2022 - 07:11:04
The word of God is not about scientific theories; neither does it speak of scientific theories.  Those who would actually do that, i.e., compare scientific theories with the word of God, more than likely know very little about either.  The Church in the 13th, 14th and 15th centuries did just that in a variety of ways. It was a part of the inquisitions.

The word of God is truth, and all "scientific" theories which contradict its plain testimony are the false vain imaginings of fallen humanity.

Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. 19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

He has clearly and simply revealed and stated the truth of our origins. Those who contradict these statements, some of which are straight out of the mouth of almighty God Himself and written with His own finger in stone, are preaching the vain imaginings of fallen humanity.

Exo 20:8  Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Psa 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. 8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. 9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Those who reject the plain and simple truths and light of the above scriptures, are left in the darkness which they have chosen over it. So be it.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

He who created the world and has saved us also said -

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The theory of evolution trashes the fourth commandment of God, declaring its testimony untrue, destroying the fundamental reason for its observance. That humanity might know and remember just who God is, and just who they are in relation to Him. So be it.

Quote from: 4WD on Fri Apr 08, 2022 - 07:35:17
And you are the epitome of those people who over and over again attempt to extract scientific theories from the Bible or attempt to show how scientific theories contradict the Bible.

The pot calling the kettle black. So be it.

Here we are, reveal the contradictions of scripture you speak of?

Quote from: Amo on Fri Apr 08, 2022 - 07:54:55
The pot calling the kettle black. So be it.

I have never tried to extract or develop any scientific theory from the Bible nor have I ever tried to show how a scientific theory contradicts the Bible.  That is you, Amo.

Quote from: Amo on Fri Apr 08, 2022 - 07:54:55
Here we are, reveal the contradictions of scripture you speak of?

So far as I am concerned, there are no generally recognized scientific theories that contradict scripture.  Again that is you, Amo.

Quote from: 4WD on Fri Apr 08, 2022 - 08:24:20
So far as I am concerned, there are no generally recognized scientific theories that contradict scripture.  Again that is you, Amo.

How about the theory that what cannot be proven does not exist?  Like God, like the devil, etc?
I would say that is a HUGE contradiction to scripture.

Quote from: DaveW on Fri Apr 08, 2022 - 13:38:31
How about the theory that what cannot be proven does not exist?  Like God, like the devil, etc?
I would say that is a HUGE contradiction to scripture.

Sorry, that isn't science, it's philosophy.

Right on, Alan

Quote from: 4WD on Fri Apr 08, 2022 - 08:21:40
I have never tried to extract or develop any scientific theory from the Bible nor have I ever tried to show how a scientific theory contradicts the Bible.  That is you, Amo.

Yes, that is correct. The bible is my standard of truth concerning all things, to which I compare all things for authenticity. That would include science of course. So you are correct in that the bible is my standard of truth, and apparently is not your's. No argument with you on that one.

Luk 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread. 4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

While scripture certainly does not and cannot address everything concerning everything, it is most certainly proficient enough to divide between truth and error. That which it declares is truth, and that which contradicts what it declares is in fact false.

Quote from: 4WD on Fri Apr 08, 2022 - 08:24:20
So far as I am concerned, there are no generally recognized scientific theories that contradict scripture.  Again that is you, Amo.

Yes, again, that is me, not you. You are the one who sees no problems with all of the generally accepted scientific theories of this world, developed by your own admission with no reference to or guidance from scripture. I am the one who does see problems with some of them, and does claim that they contradict the testimony of the scriptures. Again, no argument with you on this point either. As I have often pointed out, our faiths have different foundations, and rely upon and trust different sources. You are correct.

Quote from: Alan on Fri Apr 08, 2022 - 19:04:46

Sorry, that isn't science, it's philosophy.

And therein lies the problem. You think God and His word are philosophy, and not the absolute facts of the matter, matter itself, and the very existence of everything.

Jer 23:23 Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off? 24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.

None can hide from the Lord, He fills heaven and earth. And yet the sciences of humanity cannot see or acknowledge Him in their examination of His creation, as He Himself has testified concerning it. God and Satan are not philosophy. They are the facts of the matter which every single person on this planet must deal with every day of their lives, whether they care to accept such or not. God's word is reality, not philosophy. Only those who come to realize this all consuming truth, over and above all other decelerations, will survive into the eternity of reality which God is.

Exo 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

GOD IS, and there is no other. Apart from Him there is nothing, including all the vain philosophies and so called "sciences" of humanity. If God cannot be seen in them, they are useless puffs of smoke and vapor, here today gone tomorrow. Just as this world and everything in it is and are on their way out, but the word of God endures forever.

1Pe 1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

The glory of humanity and its philosophies and "sciences" will wither away. God's word endures forever. They will vanish, but His word will endure forever because His word is reality, and they are but a puff of smoke. So be it.

There is no science apart from God and His word, because there is no thing apart from God and His word. All such in the present, is a temporary spec of time in eternity, allowed only until all decisions are made concerning the only reality of all things, God. Only fallen humanity has vain imaginings separated from God, who alone is Himself reality, apart from which there is nothing. And so, here we are.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Sure sounds a whole lot like the condition of things in the world today.

Quote from: Amo on Sat Apr 09, 2022 - 09:06:57
As I have often pointed out, our faiths have different foundations, and rely upon and trust different sources.

Yes, your faith is in your interpretations, not necessarily God's word. Whether you want to admit it or not, your faith has basically the same foundations as mine. The foundation of your faith is essentially based upon what you think the word of God means.  The foundation of my faith is essentially based upon what I think the word of God means.

Quote from: Amo on Sat Apr 09, 2022 - 09:58:25
And therein lies the problem. You think God and His word are philosophy, and not the absolute facts of the matter, matter itself, and the very existence of everything.

I'll stop your rant right there. The quote isn't biblical in the first place.

Quote from: Amo on Sat Apr 09, 2022 - 09:58:25
There is no science apart from God and His word...

What an unimaginably stupid thing to say. Nearly all, if not all, science exists apart from God's word.  Clearly there is no true science apart from God, since it is His creation.

Quote from: 4WD on Sat Apr 09, 2022 - 10:08:14
What an unimaginably stupid thing to say. Nearly all, if not all, science exists apart from God's word.  Clearly there is no true science apart from God, since it is His creation.

Yes, I know, you simply do not understand. THERE IS NOTHING APART FROM GOD'S WORD, by which all things came into being, exist, consist, and will be judged.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

There is nothing, and I mean nothing, apart from God. Save sin, sinners, and all of their vain imaginings. All of which are truly nothing, existing in a temporary state of allowance, only until God has determined it is time to end all such. Every thought, imagination, and expression of fallen humanity exists only in relation to God, and will be judged accordingly. Including all "sciences and philosophies of fallen humanity". They absolutely cannot be separated from God or His judgement regarding their future existence and or relation to truth or not. Nothing of this world can escape these realities upon all of this world. They are all part of it, including and even especially "sciences" or anything else attempting or claiming to explain what is. GOD IS! And everything will be judged according to this reality which nothing can detach itself from. Hard as fallen creation might try. If God who alone is, cannot be seen in "science" then that science is false and in fact non existent.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

There is no separating ourselves or our thoughts, our actions, our "sciences", our philosophies, our whatever from God, by whom all things consist. God alone will make this final separation which is itself death, in the judgment concerning all that which actually was and is separate from Him, in order to bring all of such to its final end. Forever. All the claims of science or any other discipline, faith, religion, politic, philosophy, or what have you, are directly connected to God through His creations from whom they come. If God who is all in all, is not found in them, they will be no more. This is the judgment of God coming upon all, that the proper order of all may be restored.

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

All sciences or anything else which has been separated in any way shape or form from God who is all in all, will end in the judgement which is to exactly address all such, which exists only and alone on this fallen world. Nowhere else would anything even be imagined which would be determined as separate from God and His word, by which all things exist and consist. This state of being has only been allowed temporarily for those in need of salvation from it, because separation from God in any way shape or form, really means non existence. Either "science" reveals God and His word, or it is not only fake, but in fact non existent. So be it, and so will it be.

Quote from: 4WD on Sat Apr 09, 2022 - 09:59:41
Yes, your faith is in your interpretations, not necessarily God's word. Whether you want to admit it or not, your faith has basically the same foundations as mine. The foundation of your faith is essentially based upon what you think the word of God means.  The foundation of my faith is essentially based upon what I think the word of God means.

No sir. I need add nothing to plain, simple, conclusive statements of scripture to believe as I do. It is simply what they say. You cannot do this with your deep time evolution theory. You must add to it, to believe as you do. Again, again, again, and blah blah blah, as I repeat so very often -

please do provide even one scripture, taken for just what it says, which even suggests deep time simple to complex evolutionary processes. You cannot, which is why you have not. The best you can offer or have, is a link to someone doing exactly what you do, adding their own words, to come up with allowance for deep time evolution from scripture. Which is of course then, not from scripture. So be it.

Quote from: Alan on Sat Apr 09, 2022 - 10:07:16

I'll stop your rant right there. The quote isn't biblical in the first place.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Quote from: Amo on Sat Apr 09, 2022 - 10:42:17There is nothing, and I mean nothing, apart from God. Save sin, sinners, and all of their vain imaginings.

Which, seemingly unbeknownst to you, clearly includes you and your vain imaginings.

Quote from: Amo on Sat Apr 09, 2022 - 10:55:35
No sir. I need add nothing to plain, simple, conclusive statements of scripture to believe as I do.

I course you add to it.  You add your interpretation, specifically your interpretation of the Hebrew word "yom" which you insist can only mean a 24 hour day.  But then it doesn't mean that in Genesis 2:4. It probably doesn't mean that in Genesis 2:2 either.

Quote from: 4WD on Sat Apr 09, 2022 - 11:05:40
Which, seemingly unbeknownst to you, clearly includes you and your vain imaginings.

Yes, I understand that to you, certain scriptures and the fourth commandment of God, are vain imaginings. Along with your insistence that taking historical accounts within God's word to mean just what they state, is vain imagining as well. As stated before, if the creation account of scripture and the fourth commandment of God do actually mean deep time simple to complex evolution, then no scripture can be understood by any thing but, whatever anyone wants to make it. And rightly so. Which then of course, destroys the claims of other scriptures as well, which claim we can depend upon their truth and accuracy. And again, who are you then, to hold up any scripture as authoritative according to your own "interpretation", or anyone else for that matter? No one of course, just like all the rest of us, since scripture can obviously mean almost the exact opposite of what it simply states many times over.

Enough of this going around in circles for now though. Maybe some day there will actually be a translator of the scriptures that will produce a translation using the word yom as you suggest. Then you will actually be able to quote scripture to me, backing up your position. Of course such would create many contextual problems, which is why no doubt no one has done so yet, that I know of. Context is important. If you cannot fit one possible definition of a word into the context surrounding its use, that is very likely because that definition is not the proper one. So be it.

Quote from: Alan on Fri Apr 08, 2022 - 19:04:46
Sorry, that isn't science, it's philosophy.

That may be true;  but it is a very common attitude in the science community.

AND - there are those that insist that all science itself (including logic and mathematics) is nothing more than a philosophy.

Quote from: Amo on Fri Apr 08, 2022 - 07:25:16
The world is filled with people declaring that those who disagree with them simply don't know what they are talking about. It never makes such so.

This should be a simple fix.  Just show us your PhD in Astrophysics.  No?  How about Archaeology?  Microbiology?  Radiology?  ANY relevant field at all?

I won't be holding my breath.

Quote from: DaveW on Mon Apr 11, 2022 - 06:27:57
AND - there are those that insist that all science itself (including logic and mathematics) is nothing more than a philosophy.

Science isn't a philosophy per se, but it is married to one, and that one is cynicism.

Mathematics is a language.  While it sees a lot of play with scientists, it can be used in any field.

Formal Logic isn't a part of the sciences.  It is primarily a tool of persuasion.  It belongs with the Arts... governance, rhetoric, speaking and writing, etc.

Jarrod

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Mon Apr 11, 2022 - 10:50:40
This should be a simple fix.  Just show us your PhD in Astrophysics.  No?  How about Archaeology?  Microbiology?  Radiology?  ANY relevant field at all?

I won't be holding my breath.

You mean those awards made by men, to give to other men, because they accepted the teachings and views of yet other men? Very many of which have been proved by time and increased knowledge to have been wrong time and time again? Whom apparently some think posses credentials which exclude them from scrutiny and question form others who do not posses such awards. Is that what you mean?

If that is what you desire though, I have already provided extensive lists of people who have those things, and disagree with the theory of evolution, and even believe in the literal creation account. Does that mean you should therefore agree with them instead of your own with such awards? Of course not, you should study and decide for yourself as everyone should in this world rife with deception. Therefore also, what is your argument truly, but the age old and lame argument that the majority represents that which is right and true. A fallacy which the scriptures and our Lord Jesus Christ refute to this day.

Quote from: Amo on Wed Apr 13, 2022 - 08:49:45
You mean those awards made by men, to give to other men, because they accepted the teachings and views of yet other men?

No, credentials that are given for extensive study on a given topic.

Quote Very many of which have been proved by time and increased knowledge to have been wrong time and time again?

Very many? Proven? Specifics please.

QuoteIf that is what you desire though, I have already provided extensive lists of people who have those things, and disagree with the theory of evolution,

You post rubbish. Furthermore, your very disdain of science and the knowledge it brings forth, cannot be replaced with a crappy version of science.

Quote from: Amo on Wed Apr 13, 2022 - 08:49:45
You mean those awards made by men, to give to other men, because they accepted the teachings and views of yet other men?

I mean credentials that are awarded by bodies of professionals recognizing that the recipient has passed muster in studying the subject matter.

If you don't have a relevant one, that's ok.  Most people don't.  I'm not a scientist.  My degrees are in business and church management, my professional certifications have to do with finance and accounting.  My ordination has long since lapsed (the gifts and calling of God are without repentance... until you stop paying dues and tithes).

Quote from: Amo on Wed Apr 13, 2022 - 08:49:45
If that is what you desire though, I have already provided extensive lists of people who have those things, and disagree with the theory of evolution, and even believe in the literal creation account.

That isn't what I asked for at all.  Don't try to move the goalposts.

Jarrod

Quote from: Alan on Wed Apr 13, 2022 - 10:02:58
No, credentials that are given for extensive study on a given topic. Very many? Proven? Specifics please.You post rubbish. Furthermore, your very disdain of science and the knowledge it brings forth, cannot be replaced with a crappy version of science.

Yes, extensive studies by men, giving themselves and others awards for their own studies and conclusions. Also giving awards to those who study under them as well. Given of course, that they agree with their conclusions, or at the very least pass tests acknowledging that they understand them correctly.

Are you seriously saying you don't think specifics can be provided covering the mistakes of accepted scientific theories of the past? I have already provided many on these boards. Perhaps I will take the time to post some again, but there really is no need for any such that will look the simple truth in the face. Scientists have been wrong many times before. While many who also accepted and or learned these mistakes from them, may have been awarded at the time these fallacies were accepted by them as truth. Those awards were therefore obviously not appropriate.

The crappy science argument goes both ways of course. We both know that I am not talking about settled, observable, tested, and proved science. I am talking about the very unsettled issue of the deep time theory of evolution, as it stands concerning the cause and basis of our origins and undirected random chance existence and progression of life. You simply constantly confuse it with all science, that you may falsely declare I am against all of it, which is a load of crap. Nevertheless, you are free to do as you wish, just like the rest of us of course.

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Wed Apr 13, 2022 - 10:31:06
I mean credentials that are awarded by bodies of professionals recognizing that the recipient has passed muster in studying the subject matter.

If you don't have a relevant one, that's ok.  Most people don't.  I'm not a scientist.  My degrees are in business and church management, my professional certifications have to do with finance and accounting.  My ordination has long since lapsed (the gifts and calling of God are without repentance... until you stop paying dues and tithes).
That isn't what I asked for at all.  Don't try to move the goalposts.

Jarrod

Yes, that is accurate cornering such awards. Not however proof positive that said "professionals" reached proper conclusions.

To the contrary, my instructor has the highest credentials possible, being the word of God. As high above all others, as God is. His word is sure, you and all others can believe that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oiYnPFM5I4

The above video is a very good summation of the creation and flood account by Dr, Kurt Wise. A man with the credentials some consider very important.

Dr. Kurt Wise, Professor of Biology:
Ph.D., Harvard University

M.A., Harvard University

B.A., University of Chicago

Quote from: Amo on Wed Apr 13, 2022 - 12:01:48
Are you seriously saying you don't think specifics can be provided covering the mistakes of accepted scientific theories of the past?

There you go again, pretending I asked the question you want to answer, instead of actually responding to me.  Do you even bother to look at our posts?

Quote from: Amo on Wed Apr 13, 2022 - 12:01:48
I have already provided many on these boards. Perhaps I will take the time to post some again, but there really is no need for any such that will look the simple truth in the face.

I'm sure you will do that again.  No matter how much we tell you that we don't give a flapjack about the nonsense you post, you continue.

Quote from: Amo on Wed Apr 13, 2022 - 12:01:48
Scientists have been wrong many times before. While many who also accepted and or learned these mistakes from them, may have been awarded at the time these fallacies were accepted by them as truth. Those awards were therefore obviously not appropriate.

The crappy science argument goes both ways of course. We both know that I am not talking about settled, observable, tested, and proved science. I am talking about the very unsettled issue of the deep time theory of evolution, as it stands concerning the cause and basis of our origins and undirected random chance existence and progression of life. You simply constantly confuse it with all science, that you may falsely declare I am against all of it, which is a load of crap. Nevertheless, you are free to do as you wish, just like the rest of us of course.

For the 4th time (or however many it is now), I don't talk (or care whatsoever) about "creation science."  I care about the Bible.

You know how I can tell that all your so-called science is really an attempt to force the evidence to fit your conclusion?  It's because your conclusion isn't even what the Bible actually says!  It's based on Catholic tradition from long ago, which is pretty ironic considering your abhorrence of all things Catholic.

Jarrod

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Wed Apr 13, 2022 - 16:28:02
There you go again, pretending I asked the question you want to answer, instead of actually responding to me.  Do you even bother to look at our posts?
I'm sure you will do that again.  No matter how much we tell you that we don't give a flapjack about the nonsense you post, you continue.
For the 4th time (or however many it is now), I don't talk (or care whatsoever) about "creation science."  I care about the Bible.

You know how I can tell that all your so-called science is really an attempt to force the evidence to fit your conclusion?  It's because your conclusion isn't even what the Bible actually says!  It's based on Catholic tradition from long ago, which is pretty ironic considering your abhorrence of all things Catholic.

Jarrod

Yes, I do look at your posts. Actually, you responded to my response to Alan, not you. I wasn't pretending you asked a certain question, I wasn't even responding to you in that post. Easy mistake, as I was responding to two people, with similar points.

Quote from: Alan on Wed Apr 13, 2022 - 10:02:58
No, credentials that are given for extensive study on a given topic. Very many? Proven? Specifics please.You post rubbish. Furthermore, your very disdain of science and the knowledge it brings forth, cannot be replaced with a crappy version of science.

Exhibit A of crappy evolutionary science, backed up by people with "real" credentials of their time.

THE ORIGIN OF RACES, by Carleton S. Coon.

Credited and recommended by such as  - Ernst Mayer, Agassiz Professor of Zoology, Harvard University.

William W. Howells, Professor of Anthropology, Harvard University.

William S. Straus, Jr., Professor of Anatomy and Physical Anthropology, John Hopkins University.

J. Franklin Ewings, s. j., Fordham University.

J. Lawrence Angel, Curator of Physical Anthropology, Smithsonian Institution.

Wilton Krogman, Professor of Physical Anthropology, University of Pennsylvania.

Daniel A. Poling, Editor, Christian Herald Magazine.

George Gaylord Simpson, Museum of Comparative Zoology, Harvard University.

Sir Julian Huxley.

Cover Statement - The first detailed history of the evolution of the five races of man - a pioneer work, a milestone of scientific thought. It advances Darwinian theory beyond the origin of species to the myth-ridden question of the origin of subspecies, or races.

An example of wrong conclusions based upon faulty premise and limited data. Which observations enhanced already existing racist views, in determining certain races being less evolved.

Quote from: Amo on Sat Apr 16, 2022 - 08:55:30
Exhibit A of crappy evolutionary science, backed up by people with "real" credentials of their time.

The issue with this extremely small group of "scientists" is their agenda. I've said this before, but I'll just refresh you here. You will never find a secular study that agrees with ANY young earth theories, they're virtually non-existent. If any of these so called scientists had any legitimate and unbiased data to share, surely it would be confirmed by at least some groups outside of the religious faiths.

I'm sure your spin on this is that they're all out to discredit the existence of God, but the truth is that the vast majority of them couldn't care less about the concept of an all mighty creator, their quests are limited to observable and testable research, nothing else.

Quote from: Alan on Sat Apr 16, 2022 - 10:16:11

The issue with this extremely small group of "scientists" is their agenda. I've said this before, but I'll just refresh you here. You will never find a secular study that agrees with ANY young earth theories, they're virtually non-existent. If any of these so called scientists had any legitimate and unbiased data to share, surely it would be confirmed by at least some groups outside of the religious faiths.

I'm sure your spin on this is that they're all out to discredit the existence of God, but the truth is that the vast majority of them couldn't care less about the concept of an all mighty creator, their quests are limited to observable and testable research, nothing else.

Gee, I wonder why that would be, could it be -

QuoteSecular

adjective

1. of or relating to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal:
secular interests.

2. not pertaining to or connected with religion (opposed to sacred):
secular music.

3. (of education, a school, etc.) concerned with nonreligious subjects.

4. (of members of the clergy) not belonging to a religious order; not bound by monastic vows (opposed to regular).

Of course secular studies and groups would not be associated with creation oriented studies or groups. So what. Why would anyone expect them to be, they are secular. This is of course where people who do not want to hear about God or religion would associate, study, practice and what have you. Which strangely enough, is where you and other evolution believing Christians turn for their standard of truth, concerning our origins over and above the word of God. Denying that scientists which believing in the creation account of scripture as it plainly states, should not even be allowed a seat at the table of "real science". Making themselves "lords" of science as it were. Determining which fields of study can be determined "real science", and which cannot. This is of course only in their own minds though, certainly not the minds of the who disagree with them.

If God created the world, even by your own standard of deep time evolutionary processes, then the truth is still that God created the world. Yet, by your own standard, no "real science" should allow for such. Which simply means that your supposed "real science" cannot be associated with or lead to the ultimate truth. So be it, as the holy scriptures have determined.

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. 10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The above is not secular knowledge, nor is it for those who place secular knowledge above it. To the contrary, it exactly addresses those who place the secular knowledge of this fallen world, above it.

Quote from: Amo on Sat Apr 16, 2022 - 12:49:59

Of course secular studies and groups would not be associated with creation oriented studies or groups. So what. Why would anyone expect them to be, they are secular. This is of course where people who do not want to hear about God or religion would associate, study, practice and what have you. Which strangely enough, is where you and other evolution believing Christians turn for their standard of truth, concerning our origins over and above the word of God.

You've got it all wrong, but I'm not surprised in the least that you believe that secular science has taken a side against God. Believing or not believing in God isn't going to alter a good scientist's views, that is something reserved for the wacky world of creation scientists. As I said above, never has a scientist outside of religion agreed with the pseudo science of YEC, I wonder why that might be? 

Quote from: Alan on Sat Apr 16, 2022 - 13:40:53

You've got it all wrong, but I'm not surprised in the least that you believe that secular science has taken a side against God. Believing or not believing in God isn't going to alter a good scientist's views, that is something reserved for the wacky world of creation scientists. As I said above, never has a scientist outside of religion agreed with the pseudo science of YEC, I wonder why that might be? 

Science (by that I mean scientists) is not immune from influence of money, politics, of personal bias.  This past two years has demonstrated that over and over.   Faulty mask studies, vaccine studies, and most of the words out of Fauci's mouth.