Christian Forums

https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/titanoboa-all-about-giant-extinct-snake-species-made-famous-by-internet-2854878

Giant snakes.

https://theconversation.com/gigantic-wolverines-otters-the-size-of-wolves-fossils-offer-fresh-insights-into-the-past-140752

Giant wolverines and otters.

https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/its-rhi-normous-new-giant-rhino-species-discovered

Giant rhinos.

https://www.outdoorhub.com/stories/2015/11/02/five-prehistoric-bear-species-mop-floor-modern-bears/

Giant bears.

https://ieltsquangbinh.com/extinct-the-giant-deer/

Giant deer.

https://www.toptenz.net/10-horrific-extinct-monster-birds.php

Giant birds.

https://www.grunge.com/463093/giant-prehistoric-insects-that-no-longer-exist/

Giant bugs.

https://www.sciencealert.com/this-giant-severed-wolf-head-from-40-000-years-ago-was-unearthed-in-siberia

Giant wolves.

https://www.historicmysteries.com/aurochs/

Giant bovine.

https://listverse.com/2010/12/02/10-huge-prehistoric-cats/

Giant cats.

https://www.livescience.com/56797-hell-pigs-entelodonts.html

Giant pigs.

Kind of looks like there is an observable trend of larger life forms further back in time. One would think such would lend credence to the very many reports of giant humans in the past as well. Yet very many will not go there. I'll continue supplying evidence for that trend later.

From just a couple of the articles you posted

Quote from: Amo on Sun Aug 07, 2022 - 06:09:34
https://www.livescience.com/56797-hell-pigs-entelodonts.html

Giant pigs.

From the link you posted:

QuoteEntelodonts were among the earliest of the pig-like lineages, known from the early to middle Eocene (c. 50 million years ago), according to Kenneth T. Wilkins, associate dean for sciences at Baylor University, Waco, Texas.

Quote from: Amo on Sun Aug 07, 2022 - 06:03:27
https://www.sciencealert.com/this-giant-severed-wolf-head-from-40-000-years-ago-was-unearthed-in-siberia

Giant wolves.

From the article:

QuoteThis Giant Severed Wolf Head From 40,000 Years Ago Was Unearthed in Siberia[/size]

Just curious why you would post what you obviously don't believe is true.

Quote from: 4WD on Sun Aug 07, 2022 - 07:35:07
From just a couple of the articles you posted

From the link you posted:

From the article:
Just curious why you would post what you obviously don't believe is true.

The remains of the giant animals are the observable facts. The millions of years or thousands of years are the more faith based portions of both creationism and evolution. We see the remains before us. None of us see or saw when or what exactly happened or how long it took. The differing narratives concerning how and how long ago, are the differing faiths regarding the same.

Did those animals actually live or did God simply put those fossilized remains there when He created the world about 6000 years ago as YECs have postulated?

Quote from: 4WD on Sun Aug 07, 2022 - 14:45:46
Did those animals actually live or did God simply put those fossilized remains there when He created the world about 6000 years ago as YECs have postulated?

I've never heard that about fossilized remains.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TnzM_Lvrsc

Ruins from the flood the world over.

Quote from: 4WD on Sun Aug 07, 2022 - 14:45:46Did those animals actually live or did God simply put those fossilized remains there when He created the world about 6000 years ago as YECs have postulated?

I have heard some claim that the devil made up all the fossils to distract us.  God had nothing to do with it.

God gave Satan that kind of power??

Quote from: 4WD on Wed Aug 10, 2022 - 05:58:07
God gave Satan that kind of power??

Bible never says one way or the other.  So we just do not know. 

If it was important for us to walk our lives in HIS ways, He would have told us.

It is interesting that we seem to come down frequently to the paradox of the bible giving a timeframe for creation being about 6000 years ago while scientific records seem to indicate the age of the world is in the billions of years.

The week before last, the Chabad (chassidic Judaism) commentary on the end reading of the book of Numbers talked about contradictions and paradoxes.  Unlike some forms of Christianity which has to have everything locked into a rigid framework, Judaism thrives on contradictions and paradoxes.  An old joke about a Jew who tells his rabbi he finally figured out the answers to all of the questions.  The shocked rabbi then starts hitting him over the head with a book and screams at him "Don't you know the questions are much more important than the answers?"

From the Chabad commentary on  Parshat Matot-Massei:

QuoteBeyond Paradox

The Amidah (central prayer of the Jewish service - very long) embodies a paradox. On the one hand we abandon our ego and become a mere mouthpiece for the words of G-d. On the other hand, it is a prayer of requests for the satisfaction of our spiritual and material needs. And yet surely it is just at this point of selflessness that we forget our needs and are unconcerned with our welfare.

These two aspects of the Amidah are indeed opposed. But it is only reason and logic that cannot tolerate the joining of two opposites. The Amidah is a level of spirituality beyond the reach of reason. The nearer we reach to G-d, the more all opposites can be accommodated, all tensions dissolved. We say, "He who makes peace in His high places," for it is in the heights beyond reason that there is peace between contending parties, and compatibility amongst opposites. In this respect, the Amidah is a foretaste of the future world, when "all flesh shall see" the presence of G-d, when—in other words—the opposites of substance and spirit will be interfused.

Quote from: DaveW on Wed Aug 10, 2022 - 11:06:59
It is interesting that we seem to come down frequently to the paradox of the bible giving a timeframe for creation being about 6000 years ago while scientific records seem to indicate the age of the world is in the billions of years.

That is not really a paradox.  One, the age of billions of years is based upon quantifiable data; the other, the age of about 6000 years is based upon an interpretation of essentially a single Hebrew word.

It is of interest that, with Einstein's Relativity and the expansion of the universe, it can be shown that from the beginning looking forward the actual time of six 24-hour days can be actually equated with the time looking backward from man's creation as about 14 billion years.  So it is not a paradox, it is simply observing from two different frames of reference.  This is the same reason that time on the surface of the earth moves more slowly than time in space above the earth; and it is the same reason that time in the midst of a black hole has nearly come to a complete stop.

Quote from: 4WD on Wed Aug 10, 2022 - 12:05:45
That is not really a paradox.  One, the age of billions of years is based upon quantifiable data; the other, the age of about 6000 years is based upon an interpretation of essentially a single Hebrew word.

It is of interest that, with Einstein's Relativity and the expansion of the universe, it can be shown that from the beginning looking forward the actual time of six 24-hour days can be actually equated with the time looking backward from man's creation as about 14 billion years.  So it is not a paradox, it is simply observing from two different frames of reference.  This is the same reason that time on the surface of the earth moves more slowly than time in space above the earth; and it is the same reason that time in the midst of a black hole has nearly come to a complete stop.

Okay.

Then can you explain... via Einstein or something else why ... when it is traced backwards... that we have that 6000 to 8000 ( give or take) from us back to Adam?

Quote from: Amo on Sun Aug 07, 2022 - 05:40:27
Giant wolverines and otters.

How I envision Amo:

Quote from: 4WD on Wed Aug 10, 2022 - 12:05:45
That is not really a paradox.  One, the age of billions of years is based upon quantifiable data; the other, the age of about 6000 years is based upon an interpretation of essentially a single Hebrew word.

Quantifiable yes, verifiable - no.

Quote from: Rella on Wed Aug 10, 2022 - 16:05:06Okay.

Then can you explain... via Einstein or something else why ... when it is traced backwards... that we have that 6000 to 8000 ( give or take) from us back to Adam?

Because it has been 6000 to 8000 years from us back to Adam.  I know that doesn't really answer the question that you have, but that is what I believe.  I believe that Adam was the first human being, but I don't believe he was the first homo erectus, the first upright humanoid.  But once again, that is quite beyond the Topic.

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Wed Aug 10, 2022 - 19:18:00
Quantifiable yes, verifiable - no.

To a real degree, data is data.  After that it depends upon what you do with that data.

Quote from: 4WD on Wed Aug 10, 2022 - 19:27:16
Because it has been 6000 to 8000 years from us back to Adam.  I know that doesn't really answer the question that you have, but that is what I believe.  I believe that Adam was the first human being, but I don't believe he was the first homo erectus, the first upright humanoid.  But once again, that is quite beyond the Topic.

No it is not beyond the topic. It hits the nail as squarely as it can. For we have no way of knowing at what point any giant may have been on the earth... other then the biblical mentions, and we have no way of knowing if what you believe were the first were normal sized ( like we consider ourselves to be) or larger species.

We actually semi-agree when you say " I believe that Adam was the first human being, but I don't believe he was the first homo erectus, the first upright humanoid "

I say semi as I am not sure I agree with your terming them " the first homo erectus, the first upright humanoid.

But am certain that Gen one fairly describes something other then Adam that was given ( or programmed) instructions by God,
before he formed Adam.

That also allows for the the earth being far older then the 6,000... or 8,000 or even 14,000 years that others have claimed on here.

But to date... can it be proved biblically?

I think it can to those who will study and read with an open mind.....

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Wed Aug 10, 2022 - 19:18:00
Quantifiable yes, verifiable - no.

Because science is constantly improving, I can see maybe a +/- 10% allowance in the current data set, but certainly nothing that would resemble a 13,780,000,000 year error.

Quote from: Alan on Thu Aug 11, 2022 - 18:02:14

Because science is constantly improving, I can see maybe a +/- 10% allowance in the current data set, but certainly nothing that would resemble a 13,780,000,000 year error.

I thought the current age of the earth was thought to be somewhere around 4.5 billion years and the Universe is 13.7 billion.

Anyway, I wouldn't make a guess on allowances.  We are very, very early into modern science.  At some point in a few hundred years if humans are going forward and Jesus has not yet returned, they may look at our understandings of many things now scientifically, the way we view those in the dark ages.

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Thu Aug 11, 2022 - 20:14:05
At some point in a few hundred years if humans are going forward and Jesus has not yet returned, they may look at our understandings of many things now scientifically, the way we view those in the dark ages.

Science in the Dark Ages? 

They're called the Dark Ages because they lack science.  The Dark Ages are what happens when the church decides it knows everything and suppresses attempts to discover anything new.

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Wed Aug 10, 2022 - 17:55:36
How I envision Amo:

Lose the silly hair on his head, no Einstein wannabe complex here. Cut my own hair about every two weeks to the length left, maybe a 16th of an inch, with my WAHL hair cutters. Make the hair white, add quite a bit more body and thickness to my mustache and goatee, lose the suit, and add thirty some odd years. Rounder head, and very different face. Apparently, I wouldn't be at all what you expected if we met. 

Quote from: 4WD on Wed Aug 10, 2022 - 12:05:45
That is not really a paradox.  One, the age of billions of years is based upon quantifiable data; the other, the age of about 6000 years is based upon an interpretation of essentially a single Hebrew word.

It is of interest that, with Einstein's Relativity and the expansion of the universe, it can be shown that from the beginning looking forward the actual time of six 24-hour days can be actually equated with the time looking backward from man's creation as about 14 billion years.  So it is not a paradox, it is simply observing from two different frames of reference.  This is the same reason that time on the surface of the earth moves more slowly than time in space above the earth; and it is the same reason that time in the midst of a black hole has nearly come to a complete stop.

You have no idea what time or anything else does in what we call a black hole, just like the rest of us. Our perceptions and imaginings regarding what we can see and observe of what is, are so very limited from within the box God keeps us in. Separated from Him and all other creation as we are. The vain imaginings of fallen humanity regarding what they deem to be "science" so called, reach no further than our very limited minds, power of observation, and reality allow for. Only the willingly ignorant think they can or have figured out what is and why, when they don't even have access to, or any real idea of what actually is. Why will we compare ourselves to God, regarding whom, we know not even a fraction of what is? Therefore by extension as well, only a fraction at best of what actually exists in relation to Him as well.

1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Isa 55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. 2 Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness. 3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. 4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people. 5 Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee. 6  Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: 7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

The thoughts and imaginations of fallen humanities "sciences" so called apart from holy scripture, are not God's thoughts or ways. They are infinitely lower among the dregs of deception.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Psa 119:113 SAMECH. I hate vain thoughts: but thy law do I love. 114 Thou art my hiding place and my shield: I hope in thy word. 115 Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God. 116 Uphold me according unto thy word, that I may live: and let me not be ashamed of my hope. 117 Hold thou me up, and I shall be safe: and I will have respect unto thy statutes continually. 118 Thou hast trodden down all them that err from thy statutes: for their deceit is falsehood. 119 Thou puttest away all the wicked of the earth like dross: therefore I love thy testimonies. 120 My flesh trembleth for fear of thee; and I am afraid of thy judgments. 121 AIN. I have done judgment and justice: leave me not to mine oppressors. 122 Be surety for thy servant for good: let not the proud oppress me. 123 Mine eyes fail for thy salvation, and for the word of thy righteousness. 124 Deal with thy servant according unto thy mercy, and teach me thy statutes. 125 I am thy servant; give me understanding, that I may know thy testimonies. 126 It is time for thee, LORD, to work: for they have made void thy law.

While the law cannot save, it will most certainly destroy all who reject its authority and truth. None but those who believe the commandments of God, and seek the salvation offered by God for breaking them as all have, shall be saved in Christ Jesus our Lord. All would do well to read and heed all of Pslams 119. God spoke His commandments directly to humanity in the entire nation of Israel, and wrote them in tables of stone twice for us as well. They are the truth and righteousness of God Almighty. None who reject them or the steadfast truths they proclaim, will enter the kingdom of heaven. The so called "sciences" of humanity often preach directly against the truths uttered by God Himself in His Ten Commandments. This will not end well for those who choose to believe the testimony of these sciences so called, above the plain, simple, yet all powerful testimony of the law of God. How will one seek to keep a commandment of God, which they do not even believe? They will not, because they cannot.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Rev 12:17  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

The commandments of God are just that. They are not a recommendation, they are the bottom line basic standard of the truth and righteousness of God. All who reject them or any part of them, reject God in doing so. They will not have a right to the tree of life, or be allowed to enter through the gates into the city. This is a very significant point which all should consider.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

May God grant us all, the privilege of being inside the city at the above prophesied time.

Quote from: Amo on Sat Aug 13, 2022 - 02:15:07
You have no idea what time or anything else does in what we call a black hole, just like the rest of us. Our perceptions and imaginings regarding what we can see and observe of what is, are so very limited from within the box God keeps us in. Separated from Him and all other creation as we are. The vain imaginings of fallen humanity regarding what they deem to be "science" so called, reach no further than our very limited minds, power of observation, and reality allow for. Only the willingly ignorant think they can or have figured out what is and why, when they don't even have access to, or any real idea of what actually is. Why will we compare ourselves to God, regarding whom, we know not even a fraction of what is? Therefore by extension as well, only a fraction at best of what actually exists in relation to Him as well.

Thank you, Amo, for that excellent presentation of your absolute ignorance of any and all science.  That you would enter any discussion involving any science is mind boggling.

Quote from: AmoThe thoughts and imaginations of fallen humanities "sciences" so called apart from holy scripture, are not God's thoughts or ways.

God's thoughts or ways concerning fallen humanities "sciences" is not really a subject that God has addressed in the Holy Scriptures.  So you really don't know whether or not such thoughts and imaginations are His thoughts and ways.

Quote from: AmoThe so called "sciences" of humanity often preach directly against the truths uttered by God Himself in His Ten Commandments.

First, "sciences" don't preach anything.  Second, none of the so-called "sciences" preach directly or indirectly against the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments are not the subject of science in any sense whatever.

Quote from: 4WD on Sat Aug 13, 2022 - 05:48:02
Thank you, Amo, for that excellent presentation of your absolute ignorance of any and all science.  That you would enter any discussion involving any science is mind boggling. God's thoughts or ways concerning fallen humanities "sciences" is not really a subject that God has addressed in the Holy Scriptures.  So you really don't know whether or not such thoughts and imaginations are His thoughts and ways.First, "sciences" don't preach anything.  Second, none of the so-called "sciences" preach directly or indirectly against the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments are not the subject of science in any sense whatever.

Thank you 4WD, for those words of wisdom from one who knows what goes on inside black holes. Your wisdom knows no end. Of course the scriptures do not address the vanity of fallen humanities imaginations, 4WD said so. The matter is resolved. So be it. Time to move on.