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We are saved by grace. Everyone can agree to that but what it means is where the debate comes in.

What does being saved by grace mean?

The biblical concept of grace is simply God's Plan of redemption (salvation). It is the free gift of salvation the plan God has set to redeem us (the gospel of Christ)

ROM 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

The gospel of Christ is simply the Death Burial and Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.

How do we respond the the gospel call read Romans chapter 6

After Jesus arose from the grave he gave the great commission to preach the Gospel
MT 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

MT 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

MT 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

When did they start preaching the gospel? It was on the day of Pentecost as seen in Acts chapter 2. In that chapter we read the gospel preached for the first time and see the reaction and the answer to how God added to the church. From there on we see it repeated over and over again.

Sounds like this is more a baptism post than a "saved by grace" post. 

The book of Acts is descriptive, not prescriptive.  We should bear that in mind.

Gary thank you for your response though it is rather vague so would mind elaborating on you reply

To me what God does in baptism is the epitome of saved by grace, especially since He is the forgiver of sins and the giver of the gift of the Holy Spirit. Without what God does, baptism is only getting ceremonially wet. Saved by grace is NOT the opposite of Baptism in Christ's name but the essence of baptism in Christ's name.

If you do a careful reading of Romans 6 you can not miss the connection that Paul ties baptism to the cross (the gospel) He even goes as far to say

ROM 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

ROM 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

what was that form of doctrine it was the gospel and how was it obeyed through baptism in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38) It is quite refreshing when the Bible harmonizes scripture with scripture is it not?

Without Christ we are nothing nor never could be anything. As accepting Christ and His forgiveness cleansing us from within, we are saved by grace and forgiven of our sins.

Quote from: yogi bear on Mon Sep 23, 2024 - 16:40:44If you do a careful reading of Romans 6 you can not miss the connection that Paul ties baptism to the cross (the gospel) He even goes as far to say

ROM 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

ROM 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

what was that form of doctrine it was the gospel and how was it obeyed through baptism in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38) It is quite refreshing when the Bible harmonizes scripture with scripture is it not?

When was Mary baptised?

Quote from: Rella on Tue Sep 24, 2024 - 07:09:58When was Mary baptised?

Why ask that question? Is there something you would like to add? 

Quote from: Alan on Tue Sep 24, 2024 - 08:19:41Why ask that question? Is there something you would like to add?

Just thought it might be something I missed so I asked.

I have nothing to add.

We know Jesus was, as well as being circumcised but I wonder about Mary, and Joseph for that matter.

Would seem that it being so important they might have been mentioned in a subnote somewhere, at least.

The Bible does not say so I like you can only assume and I am not sure but did Joseph make it pass the cross or did he pass before the cross and as far as Mary I would assume she be numbered in the 3000 souls that were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ on the day Peter opened the doors to the church in Acts 2

Just wondering does it matter? Would that change the meaning of the scriptures?

Quote from: Rella on Tue Sep 24, 2024 - 08:26:53Just thought it might be something I missed so I asked.

I have nothing to add.

We know Jesus was, as well as being circumcised but I wonder about Mary, and Joseph for that matter.

Would seem that it being so important they might have been mentioned in a subnote somewhere, at least.

Yeah, that's interesting. There are a lot of names missing from the baptism logs, as well, John's baptisms were taking place before Jesus ministry began, so many of those names may have received the baptism of repentance prior to following Jesus. 

It appears to me that gospel preaching began well before Acts.  For example, it is recorded in John 20:16 when Jesus said "Mary", for example.  That's good news and made anything else that has been said before and since worth listening to.             

Quote from: Mere Nick on Tue Sep 24, 2024 - 11:20:15It appears to me that gospel preaching began well before Acts.  For example, it is recorded in John 20:16 when Jesus said "Mary", for example.  That's good news and made anything else that has been said before and since worth listening to.             

Yes according to Mark the beginning of the gospel started before the cross pointing to the completed gospel that Jesus completed on the cross. Matthew Mark Luke and John's gospels were pointing to Acts 2. Acts 2 is the first time the complete gospel was preached it was no longer to come but came with power. The new testament (new covenant) is now in play. Peter has now opened the doors to the new testament church and God is now adding to the church. 

I'm thinking it is time to come back home and do some posting, what better person to post to than my old friend Yogi.

Let me look around and than do some posting. It may be Wednesday of next week, since I'm leaving for a few days to visit up in North Carolina and Virginia. 

Quote from: Alan on Tue Sep 24, 2024 - 08:19:41Why ask that question? Is there something you would like to add?

Greetings Alan, Actually nothing Rella said has anything to do with with the OP, but neither does water baptism have anything to do with the doctrine of grace.

I'm reminded of a debate that once took place between a Baptist and a church of Christ follower.

The church of Christ minister went first and addressed Acts 2:38; then the the Baptist minister followed and quoted:

Job 1:1~"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil."

The church of Christ said to the Baptist.... what does that verse has to do with forgiveness of sins through baptism?  He replied and said not one thing, and neither does your verse!

Quote from: Alan on Tue Sep 24, 2024 - 08:19:41Why ask that question? Is there something you would like to add?

Greetings Alan, Actually nothing Rella said has anything to do with with the OP, but neither does water baptism have anything to do with the doctrine of grace~they are two different doctrines altogether.

I'm reminded of a debate that once took place between a Baptist and a church of Christ follower.

The church of Christ minister went first and addressed Acts 2:38; then the the Baptist minister followed and quoted:

Job 1:1~"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil."

The church of Christ said to the Baptist.... what does that verse has to do with forgiveness of sins through baptism?  He replied and said not one thing, and neither does your verse!

So far as I know, there is nothing in the Old Covenant about being saved by the law. All salvation from the beginning has been by grace through faith. The Old Covenant was the means through which God prepared the way for sending Jesus to die for the redemption of mankind.  The New Covenant is the means through which that redemption is realized.

Before the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, salvation was by grace through faith in God to supply the Saviour.  After the sacrifice, salvation is by grace through faith in God to have supplied that Saviour.

It is only by the grace of God that a sinner may be declared righteous and be justified through faith in Jesus Christ (Rom 3:21-31 and elsewhere).

By God's grace, i.e., by His favor, His undeserved mercy.   That passages establishes that faith is the active cause of justification.  As verse  27 says, it is not by the law of works, but by the law of faith in God.

.
Webster's defines "graciousness" as: kind, courteous, inclined to good will, generous, charitable, merciful, altruistic, compassionate, thoughtful, cordial, affable, genial, sociable, cheerful, warm, sensitive, considerate, and tactful.

Cordial stresses warmth and heartiness

Affable implies easy to approach, and readiness to respond pleasantly to conversation or requests or proposals

Genial stresses cheerfulness and even joviality

Sociable suggests a genuine liking for the companionship of others

Generous is characterized by a noble or forbearing spirit; viz: magnanimous, kindly, and liberal in giving

Charitable means full of love for, and goodwill toward, others; viz: benevolent, tolerant, and lenient.

Altruistic means unselfish regard for, or devotion to, the welfare of others; viz: a desire to be of service to others for no other reason than it just feels good to do so.

Compassionate pertains to a sympathetic awareness of others' distress combined with a desire to alleviate it.

Tactful indicates a keen sense of what to do, or say, in order to maintain good relations with others in order to resolve and/or avoid unnecessary conflict.
_

Quote from: yogi bear on Mon Sep 23, 2024 - 12:13:11We are saved by grace. Everyone can agree to that but what it means is where the debate comes in.

What does being saved by grace mean?

The biblical concept of grace is simply God's Plan of redemption (salvation). It is the free gift of salvation the plan God has set to redeem us (the gospel of Christ)

ROM 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

The gospel of Christ is simply the Death Burial and Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.

How do we respond the the gospel call read Romans chapter 6

After Jesus arose from the grave he gave the great commission to preach the Gospel
MT 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

MT 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

MT 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

When did they start preaching the gospel? It was on the day of Pentecost as seen in Acts chapter 2. In that chapter we read the gospel preached for the first time and see the reaction and the answer to how God added to the church. From there on we see it repeated over and over again.

You're right that grace is central to Christianity, but what it means can vary a lot.

Historically, the idea of grace as God's plan for our salvation has been around since the early Church. The verses you mentioned, like Romans 1:16 and Matthew 28:18-20, are key to understanding this. The Catholic view adds that sacraments, especially baptism, are ways we receive this grace. Baptism, for instance, cleanses us of original sin and brings us into the Christian community, aligning with Jesus' command to baptize all nations.

The day of Pentecost in Acts 2 was a huge moment for the early Church. Peter's preaching led to many conversions and baptisms, marking the start of the Church's mission to spread the Gospel.

From a psychological angle, believing in God's grace can really uplift people. It offers hope, peace, and a sense of belonging. Different Christian groups have their own takes on how grace works and how we should respond to it, which shows the richness of our faith.

QuoteDifferent Christian groups have their own takes on how grace works and how we should respond to it, which shows the richness of our faith.

Statements like this are what I Have trouble with. I may not understand what is meant by the quoter, but to me it reeks of it is ok to believe whatever you want. That yes many have different views but all are acceptable.

I cannot buy into that because of verses like Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

The way I see it Jesus said he is the truth and life His words are the truth not left for us to decide what we will believe but what he spoke as truth and we will be judged by His words.

Therefore the many "Christian groups have their own takes " does not hold water and is not something I would stand on.

Quote from: yogi bear on Tue Oct 15, 2024 - 08:53:48Statements like this are what I Have trouble with. I may not understand what is meant by the quoter, but to me it reeks of it is ok to believe whatever you want. That yes many have different views but all are acceptable.

I cannot buy into that because of verses like Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

The way I see it Jesus said he is the truth and life His words are the truth not left for us to decide what we will believe but what he spoke as truth and we will be judged by His words.

Therefore the many "Christian groups have their own takes " does not hold water and is not something I would stand on.

Amen and amen

I have been in a very heated battle with some universalists in another forum.

I swear those people cant read or just are blinded to the Holy Book.

2 Cor 4: 3-4  is Alive and well.... and fact

"3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving [c]so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God"

Blessings to all

Glad to see this forum back up and running

Quote from: Red Baker on Yesterday at 18:13:03Glad to see this forum back up and running

AMEN!!