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We had a interesting set of sermons given on Religious Liberty this past Sabbath and it was a eyeopener.?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S8C1Po9LM4&t=2247s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er_3Amcy3lI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B_gse6sYXE

We are seeing the emergence of the Image to the Beast with all the turmoil and much chaos being used as a smokescreen. It is preparing and laying out a path for the rise of the Image as we see the placement of the men in high positions in our government and Administration who are followers of the original Beast. So what does this entail for us as Adventist, well lets go over what Gods Word gives on the "Image of the Beast". Lets start with Revelation 13 to begin.?

Revelation 13:1-2?King James Version (KJV)
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Revelation 13:11-15?King James Version (KJV)
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

We see this evil entity try to subvert Gods plan in the last days by creating the image of the beast on Earth. The image of the beast is an end time entity, comprised of a community of people who reflect the character of the dragon, and has religious-economic-political power to impose false worship on Earth. We see the corruption it brings which is the end time Babylon the Great of Revelation 17-18, and the image of the beast is best identified with this entity and its corrupt rule.

The image of the beast is basically an institution and procedures which will duplicate the form and behavior of the beast power in Revelation 13. It will convince many that its words and purpose are true despite not being in full harmony with Scripture and will persuade the people of the earth, believers and non-believers, to follow the religious-political power which is the beast. The lamblike beast will also begin speaking like a dragon and exercising the power of the beast, showing that it will become as intolerant especially in setting aside of laws and foundational liberties. This results in people receiving the mark of the beast which is by following it in its false practices of worship, which is really worship of the Beast, and corruption of Gods Holy Day of worship. Lets look at the Revelation 14...

Revelation 14:9-12?King James Version (KJV)
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The rise of the Image of the Beast will in my opinion coincide with the fall of America in the loss of the foundational rights and the laws of America and the emergence of a corrupted power which will them proceed to take away our religious liberties along with many other rights and freedoms, and then pass laws to force worship as prophecy gives us..?

The actual "image to the beast" of Revelation 13:14-15 is for the time of "great tribulation" at the end of this world only.

It will be an IDOL placed at the Jew's future new 3rd temple in Jerusalem by the coming false-Messiah there during the coming "great tribulation." It is what Lord Jesus was warning us about in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13, then when those saints in Judea see it, to flee to the mountains.

But men's traditions are like children's jacks scattered all over the place in trying to interpret what that image to the beast is. Stay with what God's Word shows it is, and one will know.

Quote from: Hobie on Sun Dec 14, 2025 - 06:42:47We had a interesting set of sermons given on Religious Liberty this past Sabbath and it was a eyeopener.?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S8C1Po9LM4&t=2247s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er_3Amcy3lI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B_gse6sYXE

We are seeing the emergence of the Image to the Beast with all the turmoil and much chaos being used as a smokescreen. It is preparing and laying out a path for the rise of the Image as we see the placement of the men in high positions in our government and Administration who are followers of the original Beast. So what does this entail for us as Adventist, well lets go over what Gods Word gives on the "Image of the Beast". Lets start with Revelation 13 to begin.?

Revelation 13:1-2?King James Version (KJV)
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Revelation 13:11-15?King James Version (KJV)
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

We see this evil entity try to subvert Gods plan in the last days by creating the image of the beast on Earth. The image of the beast is an end time entity, comprised of a community of people who reflect the character of the dragon, and has religious-economic-political power to impose false worship on Earth. We see the corruption it brings which is the end time Babylon the Great of Revelation 17-18, and the image of the beast is best identified with this entity and its corrupt rule.

The image of the beast is basically an institution and procedures which will duplicate the form and behavior of the beast power in Revelation 13. It will convince many that its words and purpose are true despite not being in full harmony with Scripture and will persuade the people of the earth, believers and non-believers, to follow the religious-political power which is the beast. The lamblike beast will also begin speaking like a dragon and exercising the power of the beast, showing that it will become as intolerant especially in setting aside of laws and foundational liberties. This results in people receiving the mark of the beast which is by following it in its false practices of worship, which is really worship of the Beast, and corruption of Gods Holy Day of worship. Lets look at the Revelation 14...

Revelation 14:9-12?King James Version (KJV)
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The rise of the Image of the Beast will in my opinion coincide with the fall of America in the loss of the foundational rights and the laws of America and the emergence of a corrupted power which will them proceed to take away our religious liberties along with many other rights and freedoms, and then pass laws to force worship as prophecy gives us..?

  Do you believe it's alright to unknowingly mislead people with your words? If you knowingly mislead people, you can expect to be repaid. I don't see a difference. The people are still misled.

Quote from: dpr on Sun Jan 11, 2026 - 06:47:55The actual "image to the beast" of Revelation 13:14-15 is for the time of "great tribulation" at the end of this world only.

It will be an IDOL placed at the Jew's future new 3rd temple in Jerusalem by the coming false-Messiah there during the coming "great tribulation." It is what Lord Jesus was warning us about in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13, then when those saints in Judea see it, to flee to the mountains.

But men's traditions are like children's jacks scattered all over the place in trying to interpret what that image to the beast is. Stay with what God's Word shows it is, and one will know.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

So who or what is the first beast which the second one above forces all to make and worship an image of? And what is this idol or image? Was there a temple of the Jews involved with this first beast also?

Blind leaders of the Blind... are here on this forum.

The 1st beast mentioned in Rev.13:1 is a KINGDOM BEAST. That's why it has... ten horns (which are ten kings), seven heads (which are seven mountain locations on earth), and ten crowns (which mean ten thrones over the earth).

The 2nd beast, the "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward, that comes up out of the earth, is the BEAST KING that is over the 1st beast kingdom. His coming up out of the 'earth' is symbolic of his rise out of the 'bottomless pit'. Well I wonder who that is, duh......?

It's as simple as that!

Quote from: dpr on Sun Feb 01, 2026 - 08:26:16Blind leaders of the Blind... are here on this forum.

The 1st beast mentioned in Rev.13:1 is a KINGDOM BEAST. That's why it has... ten horns (which are ten kings), seven heads (which are seven mountain locations on earth), and ten crowns (which mean ten thrones over the earth).

The 2nd beast, the "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward, that comes up out of the earth, is the BEAST KING that is over the 1st beast kingdom. His coming up out of the 'earth' is symbolic of his rise out of the 'bottomless pit'. Well I wonder who that is, duh......?

It's as simple as that!

The problem with the above of course, is that a simple dpr says so, is nothing for one to place their faith in. Can you show from scripture anywhere, that a prophetic beast was confined to a definition regarding just one person, or individual? That would help your theory. Nevertheless, beasts as kingdoms or nations can easily be deduced and are fully supported by scripture itself.

One can always... trust someone who teaches the BIBLE SCRIPTURE as it is actually written.

It is those who go way... out of their way to drum up POLITICAL FODDER, instead of proving it per GOD's WRITTEN WORD, that one should be watchful against.

Hi been a while. .I would offer..

Like many word that have two different kind of meaning. satan blind to the spiritul would make it one in the same .

the confusion is between sign and mark. Mark listed 8 times in Revelation sign 2 times

1. What a sign is (biblically)
A sign is: outward---declarative---points to an authority outside itself meant to be recognized, not embodied

Examples: signs in Egyptsigns of Jonah signs in heaven even false signs

A sign says:"Look — something is happening."

Signs can be: true or false from God or from deceivers convincing without being binding

That's why Scripture warns: false signs and wonders
A sign can make you wonder but it cannot make you belong.

2. What a mark is (biblically) A mark is: inwardly binding---covenantalidentifiesownership or allegiance changes standing, not just perception

Biblical marks: circumcision (covenant mark) as a sign blood on the doorpostsseal of God on the forehead name written on the heart
A mark says: "This one belongs. "You don't just see a mark —you submit to it.

3. Why Revelation separates them Revelation is precise on purpose: Signs deceive the earth. The mark binds the people
Signs prepare. The mark commits.
No one is condemned for seeing a sign.
Condemnation comes with receiving the mark.

4. Where 666 fits
666 is never called a sign. It is called: the number of a man connected to the mark tied to buying, selling, the  gospel allegiance. .  Buy it do not sell and with it get understanding.

That matters.666 represents: humanity elevated as authority completeness (6) repeated three time to denote the end of a matter. but never reaching 7self-sufficient order without God
It is imitation fullness.

5. Sign vs mark applied to 666
Signs produce amazement wonders--draw attention---prepare loyalty Can be false without binding the soul

The mark (666)requires consentalters allegiancegoverns behavior (economic, social)reflects submission to human authority as final---So the danger is not recognizing signs.The danger is accepting the mark.

6. Forehead and hand (meaning of will , not mechanics)
The mark is: agreement in thought obedience in action-- It is not about curiosity.It is about alignment.

7. Why signs always come first. This follows the signs pattern keep matters open marks settle allegiance--wonder precedes submission
That's why Scripture says: they marveled and followed
Marveling is the doorway.
The mark is the crossing.

8. Contrast with the Living WordThis ties directly to the earlier point:the Living Word cleanses--false authority brands

God seals by truth.Deception marks by control.

One frees conscience.The other captures it.

Final ...A sign calls for attention.A mark claims ownership.
666 is not a spectacle to observe, but an allegiance to accept —and that is why Scripture warns against receiving it, not merely seeing it.

The mark of Cain .The mark of the living word , what God says comes to pass .All not converted have the mark in need of the seal 

Quote from: garee on Tue Feb 03, 2026 - 08:01:50Hi been a while. .I would offer..

Like many word that have two different kind of meaning. satan blind to the spiritul would make it one in the same .

the confusion is between sign and mark. Mark listed 8 times in Revelation sign 2 times

1. What a sign is (biblically)
A sign is: outward---declarative---points to an authority outside itself meant to be recognized, not embodied

Examples: signs in Egyptsigns of Jonah signs in heaven even false signs

A sign says:"Look — something is happening."

Signs can be: true or false from God or from deceivers convincing without being binding

That's why Scripture warns: false signs and wonders
A sign can make you wonder but it cannot make you belong.

2. What a mark is (biblically) A mark is: inwardly binding---covenantalidentifiesownership or allegiance changes standing, not just perception

Biblical marks: circumcision (covenant mark) as a sign blood on the doorpostsseal of God on the forehead name written on the heart
A mark says: "This one belongs. "You don't just see a mark —you submit to it.

3. Why Revelation separates them Revelation is precise on purpose: Signs deceive the earth. The mark binds the people
Signs prepare. The mark commits.
No one is condemned for seeing a sign.
Condemnation comes with receiving the mark.

4. Where 666 fits
666 is never called a sign. It is called: the number of a man connected to the mark tied to buying, selling, the  gospel allegiance. .  Buy it do not sell and with it get understanding.

That matters.666 represents: humanity elevated as authority completeness (6) repeated three time to denote the end of a matter. but never reaching 7self-sufficient order without God
It is imitation fullness.

5. Sign vs mark applied to 666
Signs produce amazement wonders--draw attention---prepare loyalty Can be false without binding the soul

The mark (666)requires consentalters allegiancegoverns behavior (economic, social)reflects submission to human authority as final---So the danger is not recognizing signs.The danger is accepting the mark.

6. Forehead and hand (meaning of will , not mechanics)
The mark is: agreement in thought obedience in action-- It is not about curiosity.It is about alignment.

7. Why signs always come first. This follows the signs pattern keep matters open marks settle allegiance--wonder precedes submission
That's why Scripture says: they marveled and followed
Marveling is the doorway.
The mark is the crossing.

8. Contrast with the Living WordThis ties directly to the earlier point:the Living Word cleanses--false authority brands

God seals by truth.Deception marks by control.

One frees conscience.The other captures it.

Final ...A sign calls for attention.A mark claims ownership.
666 is not a spectacle to observe, but an allegiance to accept —and that is why Scripture warns against receiving it, not merely seeing it.

The mark of Cain .The mark of the living word , what God says comes to pass .All not converted have the mark in need of the seal 

That is more philosophical speculation in comparison of God's sealing vs. Satan's sealing. It's not going to make Bible Scripture easier to understand because its focus is too narrow.

For example, the 1st beast of Revelation 13:1 that has seven heads, ten horns, and ten crowns is about a kingdom beast. That because the Book of Daniel and Revelation 17 reveals the "ten horns" represent "ten kings". Thus God's Word is what defines... that sign of the 1st beast.

Furthermore, God's Seal of His servants includes the 'mark' of Ezekiel 9, which in the Hebrew is the last letter of the old paleo-Hebrew alphabet, the letter tau, which was made as the shape of a cross.

And then... the number 666 is actually much easier to understand than what many have thought. It is because that "another beast" of Revelation 13:11, which is a man coming to mimic Christ in Jerusalem, will come on the timing of the events of the 6th Seal, 6th Trumpet, and 6th Vial.

Quote from: dpr on Wed Feb 04, 2026 - 00:18:59That is more philosophical speculation in comparison of God's sealing vs. Satan's sealing. It's not going to make Bible Scripture easier to understand because its focus is too narrow.

For example, the 1st beast of Revelation 13:1 that has seven heads, ten horns, and ten crowns is about a kingdom beast. That because the Book of Daniel and Revelation 17 reveals the "ten horns" represent "ten kings". Thus God's Word is what defines... that sign of the 1st beast.

Furthermore, God's Seal of His servants includes the 'mark' of Ezekiel 9, which in the Hebrew is the last letter of the old paleo-Hebrew alphabet, the letter tau, which was made as the shape of a cross.

And then... the number 666 is actually much easier to understand than what many have thought. It is because that "another beast" of Revelation 13:11, which is a man coming to mimic Christ in Jerusalem, will come on the timing of the events of the 6th Seal, 6th Trumpet, and 6th Vial.

Hi Thanks. all those number equal one father of lies


To narrow to distinguish the differnce between the word mark 8 times in Revelation and sign 2 times?

Un seen Sign of a sinner--- mark of the word of God---- it does not return void

Ezekiel 9:4And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark(not sign)  upon the foreheads(will) of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

Quote from: garee on Thu Feb 05, 2026 - 09:45:25Hi Thanks. all those number equal one father of lies


To narrow to distinguish the differnce between the word mark 8 times in Revelation and sign 2 times?

Un seen Sign of a sinner--- mark of the word of God---- it does not return void

Ezekiel 9:4And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark(not sign)  upon the foreheads(will) of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

Ezek 9:4
4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
KJV


OT:8420
 tav (tawv); from OT:8427; a mark; by implication, a signature:

KJV - desire, mark.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Quote from: dpr on Thu Feb 05, 2026 - 11:13:37Ezek 9:4
4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
KJV


OT:8420
 tav (tawv); from OT:8427; a mark; by implication, a signature:

KJV - desire, mark.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Big differnce in the two words mark and sign. They cannot be used to represent the same and fall into the snare of the evil one .

Those who chase signs are easily led. Those who understand marks discern allegiance.

Remember no sign was given.(Mathew 24) Its natural unconverted mankind that does seek after signs to wonder after rather than prophecy . Therefore no sign to look for to begin with.

Jesus faulted those who did look to lying signs of Satan to wonder, wonder wonder after false prophecy. Just as if true prophecy

They can be used together "sign, mark," from Latin signum "identifying mark".

Mark or bring to membrane--- not outward sign.

First usage of the word

Genesis 4:15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

Leviticus 19:28Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any sign marks upon you: I am the Lord.

Ruth 3:4 And it shall be, when he lieth down, that thou shalt mark (Observe)the place where he shall lie, and thou shalt go in, and uncover his feet, and lay thee down; and he will tell thee what thou shalt do.

1 Samuel 1:12And it came to pass, as she continued praying before the Lord, that Eli marked her mouth.(determining falsely she was drunk)

1 Samuel 20:20 And I will shoot three arrows on the side thereof, as though I shot at a mark.(bullseye)

2 Samuel 13:28 Now Absalom had commanded his servants, saying, Mark (Bring to membrane)ye now when Amnon's heart is merry with wine, and when I say unto you, Smite Amnon; then kill him, fear not: have not I commanded you? be courageous, and be valiant.

1 Kings 20:7Then the king of Israel called all the elders of the land, and said, Mark,(remember) I pray you, and see how this man seeketh mischief: for he sent unto me for my wives, and for my children, and for my silver, and for my gold; and I denied him not.

Closing Thought

Signs appeal to the eyes.

Marks reveal the heart.

Those who live by sight will be deceived.

Those who live by the mark of understanding will endure.






















v

Quote from: garee on Fri Feb 06, 2026 - 05:07:19Big differnce in the two words mark and sign. They cannot be used to represent the same and fall into the snare of the evil one .
...

Nah... your attempt to separate the meaning of the word 'sign' from 'mark' is useless. The Ezekiel 9:4 "mark" in the Hebrew is the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet, tau, and in ancient paleo-Hebrew was made in the shape of a cross...

https://www.paleohebrewdictionary.org/alphabet/t/

https://ancient-hebrew.org/ancient-alphabet/tav.htm

Quote from: dpr on Fri Feb 06, 2026 - 20:26:59Nah... your attempt to separate the meaning of the word 'sign' from 'mark' is useless. The Ezekiel 9:4 "mark" in the Hebrew is the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet, tau, and in ancient paleo-Hebrew was made in the shape of a cross...

https://www.paleohebrewdictionary.org/alphabet/t/

https://ancient-hebrew.org/ancient-alphabet/tav.htm

Thanks We should start in the beginning .Mathew 24. No sign was given-- believers have prophecy till the end of time.. God leads by His living words not sign language or smoke signals.  It was his language that brought gospel peace to the native tribes of the world

Its natural unconverted mankind that seek after empty sign  t rather than prophecy.

Sign and wonder seekers-- self aware of nothing but wonder wondering just as if true prophecy and God was still adding .

Jesus isn't freelancing. What He says is what the Father revealed. Full stop.

He says it plainly: I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things." (John 8:28)

The word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me." (John 14:24)

Quote from: dpr on Sun Feb 01, 2026 - 09:00:55One can always... trust someone who teaches the BIBLE SCRIPTURE as it is actually written.

It is those who go way... out of their way to drum up POLITICAL FODDER, instead of proving it per GOD's WRITTEN WORD, that one should be watchful against.

OK, so why wouldn't the second beast who makes an image to the first beast, then be a kingdom instead of just a man as well? If it intends to make an image to the first beast, which was as you state a kingdom, and not just an individual or man.

Dan 7:23  Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

We know from scripture that beasts are kings and or their kingdoms. So where from scripture do or can we know that they are or can be just individuals?

Quote from: dpr on Sun Jan 11, 2026 - 06:47:55The actual "image to the beast" of Revelation 13:14-15 is for the time of "great tribulation" at the end of this world only.

It will be an IDOL placed at the Jew's future new 3rd temple in Jerusalem by the coming false-Messiah there during the coming "great tribulation." It is what Lord Jesus was warning us about in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13, then when those saints in Judea see it, to flee to the mountains.

But men's traditions are like children's jacks scattered all over the place in trying to interpret what that image to the beast is. Stay with what God's Word shows it is, and one will know.

Christ came so man can pray directly, and have a intermediater before God, thus the curtain was torn on the Most Holy. We can now have access without any Third Temple...

Quote from: Amo on Sat Feb 07, 2026 - 13:41:54OK, so why wouldn't the second beast who makes an image to the first beast, then be a kingdom instead of just a man as well? If it intends to make an image to the first beast, which was as you state a kingdom, and not just an individual or man.

Dan 7:23  Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

We know from scripture that beasts are kings and or their kingdoms. So where from scripture do or can we know that they are or can be just individuals?

We know how the word two is used in parables to establish the law of faith .#1

Let there be law  and #2 it was God alone good

The unseen father revealed by the son of man 

The second beast a image of the first the unseen-- again establish law of faith

The word man is mankind men and woman 
 

Quote from: garee on Sun Feb 08, 2026 - 08:38:01We know how the word two is used in parables to establish the law of faith .#1

Let there be law  and #2 it was God alone good

The unseen father revealed by the son of man 

The second beast a image of the first the unseen-- again establish law of faith

The word man is mankind men and woman

My response you quoted and question was to dpr. Per our back and forth. I have no idea what your above answers actually state and or addresses. Use a little more scripture and expound more upon your simple statements please, if you desire actual correspondence relative to your thoughts. I can't read your mind, or know exactly what scriptures you base your above expressed albeit vague views upon. Lest perhaps they are simply from your own mind, and therefore detached from Holy Scripture as it were.

Quote from: Amo on Sun Feb 08, 2026 - 09:56:21My response you quoted and question was to dpr. Per our back and forth. I have no idea what your above answers actually state and or addresses. Use a little more scripture and expound more upon your simple statements please, if you desire actual correspondence relative to your thoughts. I can't read your mind, or know exactly what scriptures you base your above expressed albeit vague views upon. Lest perhaps they are simply from your own mind, and therefore detached from Holy Scripture as it were.

Quote from: Amo on Sat Feb 07, 2026 - 13:41:54OK, so why wouldn't the second beast who makes an image to the first beast, then be a kingdom instead of just a man as well? If it intends to make an image to the first beast, which was as you state a kingdom, and not just an individual or man.

Dan 7:23  Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

We know from scripture that beasts are kings and or their kingdoms. So where from scripture do or can we know that they are or can be just individuals?

In Revelation I was not describing the third and fourth as separate entities  .

But was in respect to the first two . The the invisible made visible, the spiritual power taking concrete form.

The first beast unseen was made known by the second a image of the invisible first

Quote from: garee on Mon Feb 09, 2026 - 14:55:33In Revelation I was not describing the third and fourth as separate entities  .

But was in respect to the first two . The the invisible made visible, the spiritual power taking concrete form.

The first beast unseen was made known by the second a image of the invisible first

According to recorded history though, millions have believed they correctly identified the first beast, before the second one arose. Whose recorded testimonies,  I believe.

Quote from: Hobie on Sat Feb 07, 2026 - 16:15:24Christ came so man can pray directly, and have a intermediater before God, thus the curtain was torn on the Most Holy. We can now have access without any Third Temple...

You are pointing to the wrong reason of that. That curtain was not torn just so Jesus could be the Perfect Sacrifice for one and all time, but also... in order to open up to those who believe on Jesus His Word of prophecy via The Holy Spirit.

Bible Prophecy For the END Showing a Third Jewish Temple is Required:

1. the Book of Daniel "abomination of desolation" prophecy, the placing of an idol abomination at a recognized temple of God at the end of this world.

2. Jesus' quote about that Daniel prophecy in His Olivet discourse within the SIGNS He gave leading up to His future return.

3. Apostle Paul's warning of the "man of sin" coming to sit in a new third temple built in Jerusalem in order to exalt himself as God, and over all that is called God, or that is worshiped.

4. Christ's warning through Apostle John in Revelation 13:11 forward about the "image of the beast" which is related to that placing of the "abomination of desolation" idol in a new temple in Jerusalem at the end of this world. That includes the coming Antichrist/false-Messiah that will place that idol abomination.

Don't know about you, but I don't need an anvil to hit me on the head to heed those warnings about the coming of a false-Messiah to Jerusalem just prior to Lord Jesus' coming, as written in God's Word.

Quote from: dpr on Tue Feb 10, 2026 - 22:59:36You are pointing to the wrong reason of that. That curtain was not torn just so Jesus could be the Perfect Sacrifice for one and all time, but also... in order to open up to those who believe on Jesus His Word of prophecy via The Holy Spirit.

Bible Prophecy For the END Showing a Third Jewish Temple is Required:

1. the Book of Daniel "abomination of desolation" prophecy, the placing of an idol abomination at a recognized temple of God at the end of this world.

2. Jesus' quote about that Daniel prophecy in His Olivet discourse within the SIGNS He gave leading up to His future return.

3. Apostle Paul's warning of the "man of sin" coming to sit in a new third temple built in Jerusalem in order to exalt himself as God, and over all that is called God, or that is worshiped.

4. Christ's warning through Apostle John in Revelation 13:11 forward about the "image of the beast" which is related to that placing of the "abomination of desolation" idol in a new temple in Jerusalem at the end of this world. That includes the coming Antichrist/false-Messiah that will place that idol abomination.

Don't know about you, but I don't need an anvil to hit me on the head to heed those warnings about the coming of a false-Messiah to Jerusalem just prior to Lord Jesus' coming, as written in God's Word.

There was no more reason for it as what it all pointed to , the intermediater, the lamb of God, had come and shed His blood at the cross..

Quote from: dpr on Tue Feb 10, 2026 - 22:59:36You are pointing to the wrong reason of that. That curtain was not torn just so Jesus could be the Perfect Sacrifice for one and all time, but also... in order to open up to those who believe on Jesus His Word of prophecy via The Holy Spirit.

Bible Prophecy For the END Showing a Third Jewish Temple is Required:

1. the Book of Daniel "abomination of desolation" prophecy, the placing of an idol abomination at a recognized temple of God at the end of this world.

2. Jesus' quote about that Daniel prophecy in His Olivet discourse within the SIGNS He gave leading up to His future return.

3. Apostle Paul's warning of the "man of sin" coming to sit in a new third temple built in Jerusalem in order to exalt himself as God, and over all that is called God, or that is worshiped.

4. Christ's warning through Apostle John in Revelation 13:11 forward about the "image of the beast" which is related to that placing of the "abomination of desolation" idol in a new temple in Jerusalem at the end of this world. That includes the coming Antichrist/false-Messiah that will place that idol abomination.

Don't know about you, but I don't need an anvil to hit me on the head to heed those warnings about the coming of a false-Messiah to Jerusalem just prior to Lord Jesus' coming, as written in God's Word.

You simply reject New Testament scripture which teach who the real Israel of God is during this New Covenant, and what or where the New covenant temple of God is as well. Unto deception regarding literal things of this world over and above the spiritual truths revealed in Holy Scripture.

You prefer the literal Jews and Israel of New covenant times as the peoples of God depicted in New Covenant biblical prophecy, who to this day still reject their and our Messiah. And a literal temple in relation to the same also, instead of the spiritual people of Israel and temple the Holy Scripture depict for this New Covenant era. Thereby being left in the dark, regarding these New Covenant Holy Scripture established and essential truths, toward proper understanding of a great many things. Including proper understanding of biblical prophecy of course. So be it as you have chosen.

Quote from: dpr on Tue Feb 10, 2026 - 22:59:36You are pointing to the wrong reason of that. That curtain was not torn just so Jesus could be the Perfect Sacrifice for one and all time, but also... in order to open up to those who believe on Jesus His Word of prophecy via The Holy Spirit.

Bible Prophecy For the END Showing a Third Jewish Temple is Required:

1. the Book of Daniel "abomination of desolation" prophecy, the placing of an idol abomination at a recognized temple of God at the end of this world.

2. Jesus' quote about that Daniel prophecy in His Olivet discourse within the SIGNS He gave leading up to His future return.

3. Apostle Paul's warning of the "man of sin" coming to sit in a new third temple built in Jerusalem in order to exalt himself as God, and over all that is called God, or that is worshiped.

4. Christ's warning through Apostle John in Revelation 13:11 forward about the "image of the beast" which is related to that placing of the "abomination of desolation" idol in a new temple in Jerusalem at the end of this world. That includes the coming Antichrist/false-Messiah that will place that idol abomination.

Don't know about you, but I don't need an anvil to hit me on the head to heed those warnings about the coming of a false-Messiah to Jerusalem just prior to Lord Jesus' coming, as written in God's Word.

 Jesus' quote about that Daniel prophecy in His Olivet discourse within the SIGNS

 You said---He gave signs leading up to His future return. ---It it there that the spirit of error gets a foot hold.

 Prophecy apposes signs-- two forms of communication--- no sign were given ---over and over--prophecy was given  it is an evil generation (666) natural unconverted mankind that seeks after a sign ---they do not seek after prophecy as it is written . Again two different apposes forces

When the veil was rent there was no dying Jewish man sitting in the what they called Holy of Holy and God called a abomination of desolation Eternal God  confined to the walls of dying mankind the Pagan foundation out of sight out of minds ----fools--- . The lying sign proved to be a lie.  Satan fell he could no longer deceive all the nations of the world that eternal God is dying mankind He will be loosed at the end of the age again to bear false signs that some wonder after

In that context, the issue wasn't miracles themselves--Jesus performed many--but the heart posture of those demanding them. They wanted spectacle without repentance. So the problem was not that God cannot give signs, but that unbelief can twist the purpose of signs. sign follow prophecy never lead.

Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel about the "abomination of desolation" idol being placed at a temple in Jerusalem. History already has a previous blueprint of that event by Antiochus Epiphanes in 165 B.C.

But Jesus quoted that event from the Book of Daniel around 200 years later in His Olivet discourse SIGNS.

Christ's Olivet discourse is where Jesus gave 7 main SIGNS... for His saints to be watching leading up to His future return. They are also the same SIGNS He gave in the SEALS of Revelation 6.

So those who would try... to prevent those in Christ from watching those SIGNS Jesus gave are fighting against Lord Jesus Christ.

Quote from: dpr on Sun Feb 15, 2026 - 05:59:21Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel about the "abomination of desolation" idol being placed at a temple in Jerusalem. History already has a previous blueprint of that event by Antiochus Epiphanes in 165 B.C.

But Jesus quoted that event from the Book of Daniel around 200 years later in His Olivet discourse SIGNS.

Christ's Olivet discourse is where Jesus gave 7 main SIGNS... for His saints to be watching leading up to His future return. They are also the same SIGNS He gave in the SEALS of Revelation 6.

So those who would try... to prevent those in Christ from watching those SIGNS Jesus gave are fighting against Lord Jesus Christ.

The holy place of the New Covenant era is not in any earthly temple, nor will it be ever again. It is in heaven where our New Covenant High Priest ever liveth to make intercession for us. If you believe there is still and earthly temple, earthly high priest and or Pontifex Maximus, and earthly priesthood to officiate the forgiveness of our sins, then you should be a Roman Catholic.

Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Again, you are looking for the fulfillment of biblical prophecy among the wrong people, and concerning the wrong temple. The beasts of the New Covenant, the anti-christ, and man of sin are not concerned with the high priests of any earthly temples or old covenant styled priesthoods. They intend to stand between or in the place of Jesus Christ our heavenly High Priest, and usurp or replace His intercession for fallen humanity, unto their destruction through deception. Having them also looking to the wrong temples, priesthoods, or intercessors as well. For only one intercessor can truly save anyone.

Act 4:12  Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

It is those who profess Jesus Christ, that the devil is trying to deceive. All the rest are already deceived, therefore does he put his attention toward the deception of those who profess Christ more than any other. By placing abominable people or false teachings within the church of Christs' professed followers, who are the New Covenant temple of God.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Again, you are focussed upon the wrong people, and wrong temple. What need has the devil to deceive those who think another earthly temple of intercession can save them? All such is and would be a blatant affront to God, and the rejection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christs' intercession unto authentic salvation. No, but the man if sin places himself and his abomination of desolation within the New Covenant temple of God, which is the professed church of Christ. Showing himself that he is God, by replacing Him here on earth with a false position between God and humanity, and a false priesthood and church which cuts humanity off from the true intercession of Christ Jesus our Lord.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Who are damned, but those who reject the saving intercession of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, in favor of another?

Quote from: dpr on Sun Feb 15, 2026 - 05:59:21Jesus quoted from the Book of Daniel about the "abomination of desolation" idol being placed at a temple in Jerusalem. History already has a previous blueprint of that event by Antiochus Epiphanes in 165 B.C.

But Jesus quoted that event from the Book of Daniel around 200 years later in His Olivet discourse SIGNS.

Christ's Olivet discourse is where Jesus gave 7 main SIGNS... for His saints to be watching leading up to His future return. They are also the same SIGNS He gave in the SEALS of Revelation 6.

So those who would try... to prevent those in Christ from watching those SIGNS Jesus gave are fighting against Lord Jesus Christ.

Prophecy written faithful words not obscure coded un-interpreted or signs. Smoke signals the writing of the up in smoke Paganism .

Jesus called those sign and wonder seekers rather than seeking prophecy an evil generation (666) in Mathew 24 .One that had no understanding of the parables
Christ's coded language.

Biblically, prophecy is clear because it proceeds from God's mouth, not because humans crack a code.

Satan the king of lying signs to wonder, wonder after just as if true prophecy .New prophecy cut off two thousand years ago sealed with 7 seal 

The word is mark used 9 times in Rev. sign twice .different understandings mark is not sign . By the mark of His word what he says comes to pass ---let there be and it was God alone good.

 Learn how to rightly divide the parables Christ's coded spiritual understanding hid from the father of lies who is not subject to the gospel understanding 

Quote from: garee on Mon Feb 16, 2026 - 08:38:02Prophecy written faithful words not obscure coded un-interpreted or signs. Smoke signals the writing of the up in smoke Paganism .

Jesus called those sign and wonder seekers rather than seeking prophecy an evil generation (666) in Mathew 24 .One that had no understanding of the parables
Christ's coded language.

Biblically, prophecy is clear because it proceeds from God's mouth, not because humans crack a code.

Satan the king of lying signs to wonder, wonder after just as if true prophecy .New prophecy cut off two thousand years ago sealed with 7 seal 

The word is mark used 9 times in Rev. sign twice .different understandings mark is not sign . By the mark of His word what he says comes to pass ---let there be and it was God alone good.

 Learn how to rightly divide the parables Christ's coded spiritual understanding hid from the father of lies who is not subject to the gospel understanding 

That's nothing but Satanic mumbo-jumbo. Doesn't make any sense because it goes directly against Christ's command for His servants to WATCH those SIGNS He gave about the END in His Olivet discourse. And it was His disciples with Him upon the Mount of Olives that asked Him for those SIGNS of the end!

Thus YOUR words MOCK The Word of God from start to end.

Quote from: dpr on Sun Jan 11, 2026 - 06:47:55The actual "image to the beast" of Revelation 13:14-15 is for the time of "great tribulation" at the end of this world only.

It will be an IDOL placed at the Jew's future new 3rd temple in Jerusalem by the coming false-Messiah there during the coming "great tribulation." It is what Lord Jesus was warning us about in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 24 and Mark 13, then when those saints in Judea see it, to flee to the mountains.

But men's traditions are like children's jacks scattered all over the place in trying to interpret what that image to the beast is. Stay with what God's Word shows it is, and one will know.

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