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Quote from: 4WD on Wed Feb 11, 2026 - 11:48:40I guess your view on creation isn't the only thing that is weird about you.

I'd say only a defunct brain pan could say something stupid like that, especially since I continually back up what I teach with proof of it in God's written Word. What that means is, when you MOCK ME about my Bible coverage, you are actually mocking GOD Himself in His Word, because it is The Word of God that I... proclaim!

Quote from: dpr on Tue Feb 17, 2026 - 01:50:34I'd say only a defunct brain pan could say something stupid like that, especially since I continually back up what I teach with proof of it in God's written Word. What that means is, when you MOCK ME about my Bible coverage, you are actually mocking GOD Himself in His Word, because it is The Word of God that I... proclaim!

Please do not be so arrogant and naive [and stupid] as to claim that disagreeing with you is one and the same as disagreeing with God.

When you comment on any word, phrase, verse, chapter or whatever from God's word, it is you not God that you proclaim.  It is only by an actual quote from God's word that you can claim to proclaim the word of God.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnfWe1wErwA

Why God did not use evolution.

Noah's Flood Revisited: New Depths of Insight from Science and Scripture
by Hugh Ross

An excellent book on the biblical truth of the flood of Noah.

Quote from: 4WD on Sun Feb 22, 2026 - 05:08:35Noah's Flood Revisited: New Depths of Insight from Science and Scripture
by Hugh Ross

An excellent book on the biblical truth of the flood of Noah.

They are still searching for philosophical missing link as If we could know the invisible Creator  by the things he faithfully creates. The Let there be power of sola scriptura .In the new heaven and earth no corrupted rudiments .The whole Creation groan for the new element chart

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Epistle to the Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen..."

Quote from: garee on Sun Feb 22, 2026 - 08:20:34They are still searching for philosophical missing link as If we could know the invisible Creator  by the things he faithfully creates. The Let there be power of sola scriptura .In the new heaven and earth no corrupted rudiments .The whole Creation groan for the new element chart

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Epistle to the Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen..."

I assume that you have not even read the book to know what it says.  So your comments are not of much value.

Quote from: 4WD on Sun Feb 22, 2026 - 05:08:35Noah's Flood Revisited: New Depths of Insight from Science and Scripture
by Hugh Ross

An excellent book on the biblical truth of the flood of Noah.

https://answersingenesis.org/the-flood/global/hugh-ross-flood-response-2/

Quote from: Amo on Sun Feb 22, 2026 - 18:11:35https://answersingenesis.org/the-flood/global/hugh-ross-flood-response-2/

Answersingenesis is a joke.  Even the shape of the Ark presented in the answersingenesis theme park is presented with bow and stern of a powered watercraft.

Quote from: 4WD on Mon Feb 23, 2026 - 04:48:37Answersingenesis is a joke.  Even the shape of the Ark presented in the answersingenesis theme park is presented with bow and stern of a powered watercraft.

Agreed.  AIG consistently has commentary that is 100 years out-of-date.

In 1928 Ugarit was discovered and the archaeology since then has re-written what we know about Genesis.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.


Knowledge =science two kinds of knowledge ---- what the eyes see and ears hear And the other what the Bible reveals.

We can see Christ our husband face to face in respect to that infalible knowledge 

The law of Christs faith as a labor of his love called the "law of faith"


Colossians 2:8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ (Invisible).


Therefore Grace apposing the letter of the law death "thou shall not or you are deader than fried chicken"

Christ creative law "Let there be" and "it was God alone good" . signs follow never lead   In that way missing bones--- giving witness to missing bones   

Preach the gospel it builds strong bones of faith.

Satan would make it all about what the eyes see he has no spiritual vision is not subject to the gospel .

Two laws become one new perfect  .the just and the justifier. Christ our husband the #1--let there be God and #2 it was very very God alone good

In that way to help against the confusion  we use the temporal dying historical  and mix it with the unseen eternal vision  then we can discover the mysteries of Christ's faith working in sons of God-- Born again Christians use the things seen wisely directing toward the unseen eternal things of Christ.

In that way without a parable that hide spiritual understanding  from un believers no faith  and reveal to another born agin Christians .

Christ in us spoke not without enriching the historical not changing its historical accuracy.   

Quote from: 4WD on Mon Feb 23, 2026 - 04:48:37Answersingenesis is a joke.  Even the shape of the Ark presented in the answersingenesis theme park is presented with bow and stern of a powered watercraft.

If presenting a wrong theory on occasion qualifies as making a field of scientific study a joke, then the entire field of theoretical biological evolution is and has been the laughing stock of the ages. Regardless, the antediluvians  were more than capable of producing powered anything that we have today, though such would not have helped in conditions as those described in Holy Scripture regarding the global flood catastrophe. There simply never was the knuckle dragging phase of humanity laughing stock evolutionists propose. There was humanity created in the perfection of mental and physical capacity from day one, as Holy Scripture chronicles.

They no doubt had a better understanding of the world they lived in, than we do of ours. It is only the natural hubris of the sinful human heart that tends to believe themselves at the highest level as it were of either evolutionary or intelligently designed development. To the contrary overall, we have been and will continue to be degrading or devolving over time, not evolving. Soon no doubt, we will reach the level of spiritual decline and degradation, which brought about the end of the antediluvian world by the judgment of God Almighty. Only lasting as long as we have, due to God's direct intervention and foresight in dividing humanity at the Tower of Babel. Preventing universal rebellion against Him again, before His appointed time. 

Quote from: Amo on Fri Feb 27, 2026 - 09:00:24If presenting a wrong theory on occasion qualifies as making a field of scientific study a joke.....

It is important to understand that nothing in answersingenesis could possibly be considered anything close to a field of scientific study.  Such would itself be a joke. It could at best be considered a field of theological study; and even at that a very poor one.

Quote from: Amo on Fri Feb 27, 2026 - 09:00:24They no doubt had a better understanding of the world they lived in, than we do of ours. It is only the natural hubris of the sinful human heart that tends to believe themselves at the highest level as it were of either evolutionary or intelligently designed development. To the contrary overall, we have been and will continue to be degrading or devolving over time, not evolving.

If in all of that you are trying to claim that our scientific knowledge as devolved since the time of Noah's flood, you must be seriously scientifically challenged -- something that you have demonstrated over and over and over throughout this discussion.

Quote from: 4WD on Fri Feb 27, 2026 - 10:38:50It is important to understand that nothing in answersingenesis could possibly be considered anything close to a field of scientific study.  Such would itself be a joke. It could at best be considered a field of theological study; and even at that a very poor one.

It is equally important to understand that your hubris alone, makes you think you can define for everyone else, what is a legitimate field of scientific study and theoretical development. Which hubris you have obviously inherited from the high-mindedness of those of the atheistic side of evolutionary theory. You most certainly did not get these ideas from the Holy Scriptures. As though people who decide to examine the natural world around them in light of what Holy Scriptures declares, have no right to do so, or cannot even be considered among legitimate scientific theory or studies.

Why wouldn't someone who believed what Holy Scripture so plainly states, conduct scientific investigations and form theories along the lines of that belief, just exactly as deep time evolutionists do? Who are you or anyone else to determine and declare their endeavors unscientific, while your preconcieved imaginations regarding deep time evolutionary theory are to the contrary legit, simply because you say so? Is this not plainly and simply a fine example of human pride, which is at the heart of all sin?

Psa 10:3 For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth. 4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts. 5 His ways are always grievous; thy judgments are far above out of his sight: as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them.

Who denies the judgements of God, but the deep time evolutionists who reject the plain and simple testimonies of Holy Scripture regarding the judgment of God in the catastrophically described global flood? Do you not also deny what the Holy Scriptures describe as the future global judgment of the world by fire? If not why not, to remain consistent with your views regarding specific and repeated biblical testimonies of a global flood, in regard to repeated testimonies of future judgment as well? If so, why, as though the bible were accurate concerning one but not the other? Does such not cast doubt upon them as a whole?

Pro 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. 19 Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.

Pro 29:23 A man's pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.

1Jn 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Who are you to defy the testimonies of God, personally given to Moses by God Himself to speak and write for the children of Israel? Are you not defying the living God Almighty in doing so? Is this not the hubris and sinful pride of fallen humanity? Thinking that they know better than the one Holy Scripture testifies got his information directly from the mouth and hand of the Lord? If this is not sinful pride, then what is?

Exo 24:1 And he said unto Moses, Come up unto the LORD, thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and worship ye afar off. 2 And Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come nigh; neither shall the people go up with him. 3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do. 4 And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel............
12 And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. 13 And Moses rose up, and his minister Joshua: and Moses went up into the mount of God. 14 And he said unto the elders, Tarry ye here for us, until we come again unto you: and, behold, Aaron and Hur are with you: if any man have any matters to do, let him come unto them. 15 And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount. 16 And the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud. 17 And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel. 18 And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.

Who are you to defy the written words and spoken testimony of the Lord God Almighty? Or the written and spoken testimonies of His chosen servant Moses? Have you ever been called by God to be in His literal presence for forty days and nights while He gives you revelations of truth to chronicle for his people throughout their history? Has your face ever shined so brightly from the glory of God after such, that others could not look upon it? Do you believe the scriptures which chronicle these events or not? Or are they just more scripture that does not mean what it plainly states, to be defined by you and those of your so called "scientific" faith, for the rest of us. Who are you to defy the written testimonies of God's chosen servant and vessel Moses, to the effect that he did not mean what he simply stated in his writings concerning the creation account? To the extent that all are now dependent upon your so very obscure explanation of what Moses and or God really meant? Who are you to defy the most simple and plain statement written by the hand of God Himself, and spoken audibly to the entire nation of Israel, and declare it does not mean what it simply states at all? What could such extremely haughty declarations be, but the sin of human faulty and self exalting pride?

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,....
Exo 20:8  Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Psa 19:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Psa 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. 8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. 9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

Who are you to tell those who believe the above testimonies, that their scientific studies and theories regarding the truthfulness of the above Holy Scriptures cannot be considered real science? Just exactly who do you think you really are?

Quote from: 4WD on Fri Feb 27, 2026 - 10:53:07If in all of that you are trying to claim that our scientific knowledge as devolved since the time of Noah's flood, you must be seriously scientifically challenged -- something that you have demonstrated over and over and over throughout this discussion.

It most certainly was largely wiped out after the flood, save that which Noah and his descendants carried on. Which knowledge slowly deteriorated over time as well. Later beginning to increase once again through accumulative recorded knowledge, especially after the Holy Scriptures were far more widely distributed among mankind during the Protestant Reformation. While the word of God in the hands of the people liberated their minds from the chains of ignorance and darkness false religion had chained them within. As a great deal of what we refer to as modern science was established by scientists of the creationist mindset, as we have already discussed on this very thread.

Apart from this is the evidence which has also been discussed on this thread and others, that at a certain point in time as one goes back in history, knowledge and know how seems to increase rather than decrease. As it should be, if the biblical creation and flood narratives are indeed as they are simply stated. Evidences of which are found all over the world. Though those wishing such not to be true, usually ignore all such as they do not support their personally chosen narratives. So be it for them according to their chosen faith. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwPXluwApVE

Another good video by Answers in Genesis Canada.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7bv-2LC1_g

Another good one by ICR. About greater longevity in the past.

Quote from: Amo on Sun Mar 01, 2026 - 09:33:51It most certainly was largely wiped out after the flood, save that which Noah and his descendants carried on. Which knowledge slowly deteriorated over time as well. Later beginning to increase once again through accumulative recorded knowledge, especially after the Holy Scriptures were far more widely distributed among mankind during the Protestant Reformation. While the word of God in the hands of the people liberated their minds from the chains of ignorance and darkness false religion had chained them within. As a great deal of what we refer to as modern science was established by scientists of the creationist mindset, as we have already discussed on this very thread.

Apart from this is the evidence which has also been discussed on this thread and others, that at a certain point in time as one goes back in history, knowledge and know how seems to increase rather than decrease. As it should be, if the biblical creation and flood narratives are indeed as they are simply stated. Evidences of which are found all over the world. Though those wishing such not to be true, usually ignore all such as they do not support their personally chosen narratives. So be it for them according to their chosen faith.

Clearly my chosen faith is faith in God, in Jesus, in the Gospel.  Yours it would seem is in something other than that.

Quote from: 4WD on Sun Mar 01, 2026 - 14:54:14Clearly my chosen faith is faith in God, in Jesus, in the Gospel.  Yours it would seem is in something other than that.

Hmmmm? So because I believe the testimony of Holy Scripture as it simply and plainly states regarding creation and the flood, my faith is not in God, Jesus, and the gospel? And because you do not believe them as Holy Scripture plainly states, but rather deep time evolution, and a localized flood I presume, your faith is in God, Jesus, and the gospel? Does that really make sense? Please do expound.

Quote from: Amo on Mon Mar 02, 2026 - 03:21:22Hmmmm? So because I believe the testimony of Holy Scripture as it simply and plainly states regarding creation and the flood, my faith is not in God, Jesus, and the gospel? And because you do not believe them as Holy Scripture plainly states, but rather deep time evolution, and a localized flood I presume, your faith is in God, Jesus, and the gospel? Does that really make sense? Please do expound.

The Holy Scriptures plainly state that Jesus said He is the light of the world.  Now we know that light is electromagnetic radiation. Visible light is that electromagnetic radiation spanning a specific spectrum of wavelengths.  Does that mean that Jesus is electromagnetic radiation?  The Holy Scriptures plainly state that Jesus said He is the door of the sheep.  We know that a door is some solid medium such as wood or metal used to limit access to some particular space, typically a room in a building. Is Jesus really wood or metal?  The Holy Scriptures plainly speak of the throne of God.  We know that a throne is some physical form of a chair or seat meant for a king or similar dignitary.  Does that mean that God is sitting on some physical form of a chair or seat? None of those things plainly spoken of in the Scriptures are literally true.

Amo, you have established for yourself what things plainly spoken of in the Scriptures are to be taken as literally true. You have determined those things which you personally have established to be literally true as your basis of faith. And for you anyone who does not abide by your decision of what is to be taken as literally true must be of a false faith of fallen humanity; and you deride all such as the dissidents against God's word.

Quote from: 4WD on Mon Mar 02, 2026 - 04:56:40The Holy Scriptures plainly state that Jesus said He is the light of the world.  Now we know that light is electromagnetic radiation. Visible light is that electromagnetic radiation spanning a specific spectrum of wavelengths.  Does that mean that Jesus is electromagnetic radiation?  The Holy Scriptures plainly state that Jesus said He is the door of the sheep.  We know that a door is some solid medium such as wood or metal used to limit access to some particular space, typically a room in a building. Is Jesus really wood or metal?  The Holy Scriptures plainly speak of the throne of God.  We know that a throne is some physical form of a chair or seat meant for a king or similar dignitary.  Does that mean that God is sitting on some physical form of a chair or seat? None of those things plainly spoken of in the Scriptures are literally true.

Amo, you have established for yourself what things plainly spoken of in the Scriptures are to be taken as literally true. You have determined those things which you personally have established to be literally true as your basis of faith. And for you anyone who does not abide by your decision of what is to be taken as literally true must be of a false faith of fallen humanity; and you deride all such as the dissidents against God's word.

Not human or dead faith as a understanding offered towards Christ from earth. Hebrews 4

Two kinds of faith as always Satan the spirit of error  would make it all one in the same to take away the spiritual unseen eternal value .He has no gospel vision   

Faith or let the there be power of Christ . Natural man believes if there is a god it would not need faith.

Christ's powerful faith that works in Christens is foolishness' to them that have no trust in the unseen things of Christ


Jesus the son of man said his flesh profits for nothing, zero--- no power.

It is the unseen Holy Spirits faith--faithfully working in us that does produce what is called the work recognized as a labor of love .

 It applies to us as well as him who works in us to both e will and empower to do it according to the Fathers labor of love How the word is used and who it represents coming from

Whose faith is in view man seen our Christ our Holy Father not seen .Satan would say all one in the same there must be division  Whose faith (understanding?)

My Wife---or our my Holy Father, a strand of three a mighty faith. Ours mixed with his faithfulness

Faith-- Christ's labor of love 

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

2 Thessalonians 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:


In that way throughout the bible the word faith is connected to His living will.

The powerful faithfulness of David--- Christ faithfully working in him to both will and do his  Fathers  good pleasure. Once using the term no faith to indicate no faith of Christ as it is written  By the faith of Christ another offered the best sacrifice --the one not seen with eyes alone a new eternal witness

Quote from: garee on Tue Mar 03, 2026 - 07:21:36Not human or dead faith as a understanding offered towards Christ from earth. Hebrews 4

Two kinds of faith as always Satan the spirit of error  would make it all one in the same to take away the spiritual unseen eternal value .He has no gospel vision   

Faith or let the there be power of Christ . Natural man believes if there is a god it would not need faith.

Christ's powerful faith that works in Christens is foolishness' to them that have no trust in the unseen things of Christ


Jesus the son of man said his flesh profits for nothing, zero--- no power.

It is the unseen Holy Spirits faith--faithfully working in us that does produce what is called the work recognized as a labor of love .

 It applies to us as well as him who works in us to both e will and empower to do it according to the Fathers labor of love How the word is used and who it represents coming from

Whose faith is in view man seen our Christ our Holy Father not seen .Satan would say all one in the same there must be division  Whose faith (understanding?)

My Wife---or our my Holy Father, a strand of three a mighty faith. Ours mixed with his faithfulness

Faith-- Christ's labor of love 

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

2 Thessalonians 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:


In that way throughout the bible the word faith is connected to His living will.

The powerful faithfulness of David--- Christ faithfully working in him to both will and do his  Fathers  good pleasure. Once using the term no faith to indicate no faith of Christ as it is written  By the faith of Christ another offered the best sacrifice --the one not seen with eyes alone a new eternal witness

What in the world has any of that to do with this thread?

Quote from: 4WD on Mon Mar 02, 2026 - 04:56:40The Holy Scriptures plainly state that Jesus said He is the light of the world.  Now we know that light is electromagnetic radiation. Visible light is that electromagnetic radiation spanning a specific spectrum of wavelengths.  Does that mean that Jesus is electromagnetic radiation?  The Holy Scriptures plainly state that Jesus said He is the door of the sheep.  We know that a door is some solid medium such as wood or metal used to limit access to some particular space, typically a room in a building. Is Jesus really wood or metal?  The Holy Scriptures plainly speak of the throne of God.  We know that a throne is some physical form of a chair or seat meant for a king or similar dignitary.  Does that mean that God is sitting on some physical form of a chair or seat? None of those things plainly spoken of in the Scriptures are literally true.

Amo, you have established for yourself what things plainly spoken of in the Scriptures are to be taken as literally true. You have determined those things which you personally have established to be literally true as your basis of faith. And for you anyone who does not abide by your decision of what is to be taken as literally true must be of a false faith of fallen humanity; and you deride all such as the dissidents against God's word.

And herein lies your problem, that you will use that within scripture which is most obviously of a symbolic nature, as an excuse to deny that which most obviously is not written or meant to be taken as such. Compounding the two, you make both obscure at best, and open all scripture up to the uncertainties of personal bias and or imaginations.

This is not to mention your complete confidence in the extremely limited range of fallen humanities so called "scientific" observationally deduced theories, from within the box God has restricted present humanity within. Holy scripture says not only that our Savior was and is the light of the world, but that God Himself is light, and there is no darkness in Him. Yet your hubris has you thinking you know exactly what light is altogether, to the ability of defining the infinite, omnipresent, omniscient, all powerful, and self existing One, in your one sentence definition of light above. As though light itself is now fully understood by you and your heady and high-minded cohorts, because you have figured certain aspects of it, which you have defined according to our extremely prohibited knowledge about countless realities regarding no doubt everything with which we have to do. As Holy Scripture clearly paints the picture regarding fallen humanity. Truly, your self confidence is based largely upon your own abject ignorance regarding all things, as the entirety of the human races can and will only see that within the extremely narrow confines which God presently allows us to even perceive. And rightly so, as just God's brightness alone would destroy us, in our present humble state of extremely limited existence. In relation of course to all that really exists even right around us right now, that we simply are not privy to.

1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Act 26:12 Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, 13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. 14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, 19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: 20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: 21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:) 22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men mad 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. 25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. 27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: 29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

We are not presently even capable of observing and or therefore truly understanding the depths of meaning and substance of what light truly is, saving from within our present box of existence, which God has restricted fallen humanity and angels within until He appears again. The brightness of which appearing will destroy this world, and everyone in it, who has not been saved unto God's transformation of us at his coming. From our fallen bodies of flesh to our spiritual bodies of light, and from mortality to immortality. As it is right now, we could not exist in the presence of true light apart from special preservation from God, as it would destroy us.

The truths revealed in the light of the word of God, are in no way, shape, or form restricted by the extremely limited knowledge and experience of fallen humanity. It is fallen humanity itself that is to restricted from reality, to properly observe and or therefore explain the enormity of what actually is, which we simply are not privy to. God was in no way, shape, or form restricted from creating this world and the heavens in six literal days, as His holy word repeatedly testifies, in no uncertain terms as symbolism or allegory alone. These are the restrictions many of fallen humanity place upon these testimonies of Holy Scripture, according to their own limited experience and knowledge or ignorance if you will, not the Holy Scriptures themselves.

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. 10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDP0zvzNY7s

Good video regarding the obvious implication of design by an intelligent designer and or creator, we increasingly observe in the evidence all around us. How say some that Creation Scientists can't actually be such, when so very much evidence points directly to the design of creation? What the heck is science for, if not to extrapolate and postulate exactly what evidence strongly suggests. Which ever increasingly is most obviously design and therefore also creation?

Quote from: Amo on Fri Mar 06, 2026 - 11:44:44https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDP0zvzNY7s

Good video regarding the obvious implication of design by an intelligent designer and or creator, we increasingly observe in the evidence all around us. How say some that Creation Scientists can't actually be such, when so very much evidence points directly to the design of creation? What the heck is science for, if not to extrapolate and postulate exactly what evidence strongly suggests. Which ever increasingly is most obviously design and therefore also creation?

There is no evidence or testing that can be accomplished relative to creation ex nihilo.  It just exists from nothing with no observed cause. There is no science to explain it. That is why it takes faith to think that it has occurred.

As an old earth creationist, I do not deny design. To the extent that I can admit to evolution, I would argue that is definitely according to God's design.

On the other hand, the typical YEC accepts design but only with extreme limitations; to them design of an evolutionary process is rejected.

Quote from: Amo on Fri Mar 06, 2026 - 11:37:331Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

So is God electromagnetic radiation in the visible range of frequencies?  If not then what, literally?

Quote from: 4WD on Fri Mar 06, 2026 - 12:23:47There is no evidence or testing that can be accomplished relative to creation ex nihilo.  It just exists from nothing with no observed cause. There is no science to explain it. That is why it takes faith to think that it has occurred.

As an old earth creationist, I do not deny design. To the extent that I can admit to evolution, I would argue that is definitely according to God's design.

On the other hand, the typical YEC accepts design but only with extreme limitations; to them design of an evolutionary process is rejected.

Neither you yourself nor anyone else has ever seen the kind of changes your faith in the theory of evolution claims to have produced. It is as much of a faith based belief as YEC Creationism is. We reject design of the evolutionary process, because Holy Scripture does not ever even suggest or address such an issue at all anywhere. To the contrary it conclusively states that the creation took six literal days, which is taken for granted by all the writers of Holy Scripture and our Lord Jesus Christ as well.

You can and evolutionists do play with the word or meaning of evolution, morphing its definition over time as their older explanations of development are proved wrong or increasingly unlikely to be capable of accomplishing changes of ever increasing complexity. As such is necessary to the overall suggested "achievements" of the professed process. YEC believers also believe that God built in the ability to change and or adapt to changing environments around them, according to His infinite knowledge and foresight.

The following video addresses the story telling adapted by evolutionists concerning that which they are and have been ignorant of. Which stories continue to necessarily change as their previous stories regarding the unknown are proved wrong. Most often by their own scientists, though Creationists have predicted that their stories would eventually be proved wrong many times, according as Holy Scripture properly teaches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m7050jfAT4     

Quote from: 4WD on Fri Mar 06, 2026 - 12:28:21So is God electromagnetic radiation in the visible range of frequencies?  If not then what, literally?

I would never presume to try and explain exactly what God is to you or anyone else. Look to Holy Scriptures, which have been given to humanity that they might know God. Apart from this of course, defining and summing up God Almighty, is quite impossible for us. Only the hubris of fallen humanity would ever claim the ability to reduce God to some short verbal explanation.

My point was and is not that you do not fully comprehend God, that is a no brainer. It was that you do not now even fully comprehend exactly what light is. As you are not even privy to its effects and interaction to or with the vast majority of what really exists, from within the box in which fallen humanity is presently kept by God. Cut off from the rest of creation, realities, dimensions, and what have you, as we are according to Holy Scripture. We have nowhere near the full picture and or even evidence of any such to examine, in relation to authentic scientific truth regarding many realities we are separated from and completely unaware of. Therefore also, how such would or does affect and or interact with that which we presently very narrowly perceive, if at all.

Holy Scripture declares that God is light, you therefore unquestionably do not fully comprehend exactly what light is. This world will be destroyed by the brightness of the light of our Lord's second coming. Do you really think that what you presently understand light to be, is the complete picture concerning such? That you now fully comprehend such, and therefore God also?

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

1Co 2:7  But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Quote from: Amo on Fri Mar 06, 2026 - 21:03:47I would never presume to try and explain exactly what God is to you or anyone else. Look to Holy Scriptures, which have been given to humanity that they might know God. Apart from this of course, defining and summing up God Almighty, is quite impossible for us. Only the hubris of fallen humanity would ever claim the ability to reduce God to some short verbal explanation.

My point was and is not that you do not fully comprehend God, that is a no brainer. It was that you do not now even fully comprehend exactly what light is. As you are not even privy to its effects and interaction to or with the vast majority of what really exists, from within the box in which fallen humanity is presently kept by God. Cut off from the rest of creation, realities, dimensions, and what have you, as we are according to Holy Scripture. We have nowhere near the full picture and or even evidence of any such to examine, in relation to authentic scientific truth regarding many realities we are separated from and completely unaware of. Therefore also, how such would or does affect and or interact with that which we presently very narrowly perceive, if at all.

Holy Scripture declares that God is light, you therefore unquestionably do not fully comprehend exactly what light is. This world will be destroyed by the brightness of the light of our Lord's second coming. Do you really think that what you presently understand light to be, is the complete picture concerning such? That you now fully comprehend such, and therefore God also?

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

1Co 2:7  But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

As is often the case, you are so wrong.

I know what light is. It is electromagnetic radiation in the visible range of wavelengths.  And I know that God is not electromagnetic radiation in the visible range of wavelengths.  Therefore, I know that when it says that God is light, it is definitely not saying that. Such is not to be taken literally. Light is used quite often in the scriptures metaphorically to indicate goodness, purity, truth, holiness, etc., while the darkness is used metaphorically to indicate the very opposite.

Clearly light is to be taken metaphorically in 1 John 1:5.  The irony here is that light in Genesis 1:3 is to be taken literally, not metaphorically.  But you can't explain that given Genesis 1:19.

Quote from: 4WD on Sat Mar 07, 2026 - 04:47:49As is often the case, you are so wrong.

I know what light is. It is electromagnetic radiation in the visible range of wavelengths.  And I know that God is not electromagnetic radiation in the visible range of wavelengths.  Therefore, I know that when it says that God is light, it is definitely not saying that. Such is not to be taken literally. Light is used quite often in the scriptures metaphorically to indicate goodness, purity, truth, holiness, etc., while the darkness is used metaphorically to indicate the very opposite.

Clearly light is to be taken metaphorically in 1 John 1:5.  The irony here is that light in Genesis 1:3 is to be taken literally, not metaphorically.  But you can't explain that given Genesis 1:19.

To the contrary, you are and do once again compound that which is meant to be metaphoric, with that which is not. As light is used in both ways in different scriptures. You only believe as you do regarding this, because you have never really seen light as it truly is. Just like the rest of us.

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

No sir, you do not know, nor will you or any other know, the true depth of the meaning and experience of light until you behold Him who is light. Dwelling in that light which no man can presently approach. Then you will know and discover how truly ignorant you were and we have all been before this event. Concerning this and a great many other things which we are not now privy to at all. So be it.

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Quote from: Amo on Sat Mar 07, 2026 - 18:18:53To the contrary, you are and do once again compound that which is meant to be metaphoric, with that which is not. As light is used in both ways in different scriptures. You only believe as you do regarding this, because you have never really seen light as it truly is. Just like the rest of us.

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

No sir, you do not know, nor will you or any other know, the true depth of the meaning and experience of light until you behold Him who is light. Dwelling in that light which no man can presently approach. Then you will know and discover how truly ignorant you were and we have all been before this event. Concerning this and a great many other things which we are not now privy to at all. So be it.

Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

"I see", said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw.

The entire passage of Revelation 22:1-5 is metaphorically describing the glorious life in heaven.  The "water of life", "throne of God", "middle of the street", "twelve kinds of fruit", "healing the nations", "His face", "foreheads", "light [from God]" are all metaphors.

It becomes more and more apparent that your ability to read and understand scripture is seriously diminished by your warped and tainted theology.

Quote from: 4WD on Sun Mar 08, 2026 - 05:22:06"I see", said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw.

The entire passage of Revelation 22:1-5 is metaphorically describing the glorious life in heaven.  The "water of life", "throne of God", "middle of the street", "twelve kinds of fruit", "healing the nations", "His face", "foreheads", "light [from God]" are all metaphors.

It becomes more and more apparent that your ability to read and understand scripture is seriously diminished by your warped and tainted theology.

It only makes good sense, that those who lack the faith to believe the creation account, and description of Eden, and the tree of life, and all else described of the perfect world God originally created, would also lack the faith to believe that described in the book of Revelation and other scriptures regarding the new heaven, earth, and Jerusalem as well. Be it unto you, as your very dim faith will allow for.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Be careful, those who demonstrate to great a lack of faith, will have no access to the tree of life. Which you no doubt have reduced to a metaphor as well. From the beginning of Holy Scripture to the end, you have reduced its testimony to metaphors and allegories, and denied the creation account, the fall, the flood, no doubt also the worlds second judgment and end by fire, the new heaven, the new earth, and Jerusalem no doubt, to metaphors or allegories which no one apparently can or has explained, including yourself. We are all just so much in the dark aren't we? Why don't you enlighten us all, and explain what all these scriptures really mean, since you are so sure they do not mean what they plainly state.

Please do save all of our lost souls for actually believing what Holy Scripture plainly states, concerning all these things. Surely this would only be right for you to do as a professed Christian in the saving of souls, would it not? Why will you withhold such crucial information from so many as you basically state, of such ignorant theology? Why will you leave us in such abject ignorance as to actually believe these written testimonies of God as though they were actually meant to be believed as simply stated? Please do explain the real meaning of these metaphors and allegories to us, the real and true gospel that you know and we do not, that we might be delivered from our biblical ignorance, and enlightened unto true salvation.

Tell us the true gospel, according to the true meaning of all the metaphors and allegories we do not understand as such, that we might be saved. If not, why not? Are we not worth your time? While Jesus Himself Who is God has completely devoted His very life and now ever liveth to make intercession for us in heaven. Or are we mistaken about this also? Is this part of the gospel also just some kind of metaphor or allegory we just don't get? Please do enlighten us, prophet and teacher of God, that we might truly understand Holy Scripture. Is this not the commission from God to very true believer? Or is the gospel commission also some kind of metaphor, allegory, or symbolism we just do not get. Why will you leave us in the dark?

Mrk 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

What is the true gospel 4WD? Please do enlighten us unto authentic salvation. Can you, will you explain the true gospel to us? If so much of the bible's testimony isn't real as we understand it, how can we be sure the gospel is as we understand it either? What does it really mean? Can we take it for what it simply says? If so why, when so much more directly related to it in the scriptures simply is not, according to your gospel? How can we know, if you will not tell us, since you do? Help us properly affirm our faith, that we might not be deceived, and be saved. Please.

Quote from: Amo on Sun Mar 08, 2026 - 09:06:22It only makes good sense, that those who lack the faith to believe the creation account, and description of Eden, and the tree of life, and all else described of the perfect world God originally created, would also lack the faith to believe that described in the book of Revelation and other scriptures regarding the new heaven, earth, and Jerusalem as well. Be it unto you, as your very dim faith will allow for.

And there we have it.  Anyone who does not agree with you is only of dim faith. And that is truly the message that you spread again and again in most, if not all, of your posting here. It really is so arrogant and narcissistic as to be totally disgusting. 

Quote from: Amo on Sun Mar 08, 2026 - 09:06:22Be careful, those who demonstrate to great a lack of faith....

There we see again your disgusting arrogance and narcissistic assertion that any disagreement with your interpretation of scripture is a demonstration to great lack of faith.

Quote from: Amo on Sun Mar 08, 2026 - 09:06:22Please do save all of our lost souls.....

I have never said, suggested or even intimated that any here were lost souls.  That relegation is an Amo feature.

Quote from: Amo on Sun Mar 08, 2026 - 09:06:22Tell us the true gospel, according to the true meaning of all the metaphors and allegories we do not understand as such, that we might be saved.

Quite simply, the true gospel is the "good news" that salvation, eternal life, is offered to all mankind by the grace of God through believing in the redeeming sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross.

That you try to make the gospel the false message of a 6000 year-old universe is ludicrous.

You are not calling what I believe totally disgusting 4WD, you are calling a great deal of what Holy Scripture very plainly states, and backs up many times over, totally disgusting. Hopefully, the very limited amount of scripture that you accept as truth, can save you. At least you accept one of the most crucial points. I'm just not sure how it will work out, while you reject so very much else the Holy Scriptures have to say. What do you take the following Sciptures to mean?

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Quote from: Amo on Wed Mar 11, 2026 - 03:35:21You are not calling what I believe totally disgusting 4WD, you are calling a great deal of what Holy Scripture very plainly states, and backs up many times over, totally disgusting.

You didn't read what I wrote.  I didn't call what you believe disgusting.  It was you in your calling anyone who disagrees with you as being of dim faith.

Quote from: Amo on Wed Mar 11, 2026 - 03:35:21Hopefully, the very limited amount of scripture that you accept as truth, can save you.

Again, you do not read very well. As I have said here over and over again, I accept the whole of scripture to be absolute truth. I do not accept the whole of your interpretation of scripture to be truth.

Quote from: Amo on Wed Mar 11, 2026 - 03:35:21At least you accept one of the most crucial points. I'm just not sure how it will work out, while you reject so very much else the Holy Scriptures have to say.

I do not reject anything the scriptures have to say.  I do reject some of what you have to say.

Quote from: Amo on Wed Mar 11, 2026 - 03:35:21What do you take the following Sciptures to mean?

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

I take that passage of scripture to mean precisely what it says.  I believe that the worlds were framed by the word of God.  I understand that God created ex nihilo which is what verse 3 means. It is too bad that you do not understand it.  You think you do but you don't.  You do not seem to understand the difference between what God created ex nihilo and what God made or what God formed or what it means when God said, "Let there be.....". And that is such a pity.