A SUPERNATURAL WONDER

Reformer · Thu Apr 30, 2026 - 20:52:17

A Supernatural Wonder on top
of a High Mountain

Going back two-thousand years or more, one of the most intriguing and unique wonders occurred when our Lord was transfigured on the top of a high mountain, along with Moses and Elijah [Matt. 17]. Jesus' appearance was refashioned to depict a different form or image of Himself. His appearance was resplendent with divine brightness. What a splendid scene that must have been for Peter, James, and John, the three men who were with him.

"Metamorphosis" is another term to describe that supernatural occasion in that there was a change, a recasting, a new shape, an unusual appearance. As usual, impulsive Peter did it again—blundered! He wanted to "build" something to give special allegiance and recognition to each person in the scene. But no! The God above would have no part of that scenario. "This is my Son, you listen to Him!"

Moses was expected to be adhered to under the Old Law, and Elijah's prophecies were to be weighed for their wisdom and divine accuracy. "But my Son is your new Teacher, Lawgiver, Prophet, Chief Shepherd, and Mediator. Hear Him and heed Him," God said to the three men.

In real life, Elijah did not suffer physical death [2 Kings 2:11]. He was taken up to heaven without the usual "passing away" syndrome experienced by all of us—sooner or later. He appeared with Jesus in his glorified form. Moses, however, had died a physical death hundreds of years prior to this heavenly scene. Yet he appeared with his Lord in a glorified form.

It seems that Moses' transformed or glorified form on this occasion did not consist of terrestrial flesh and blood. His flesh and bones were still in the grave, and the resurrection was yet future. He appeared as a celestial being, not of this earth—a "spiritual anatomy," so to speak. His configuration seemed to have been likened to the Lord's.

So the observations and questions naturally follow. Moses was there in person. The episode was not a vision, not a nightmare, not a movie scene, and not figurative. It was real—as real as real can be. Inasmuch as Moses' earthly flesh and blood was not part of the scene, what other part of him was left? His spirit—the real Moses!

A man's spirit is his essential character, the principal element that drives him to action, his very essence. Remove his spirit—essence—from his body and the body dies. "The body without the spirit is dead" [James 2:26].

Yes, I am very much aware the Hebrew and Greek terms for "spirit" also translate "breath" and "wind." Breath and wind, however, are not the essential character or principal element that drives a man to action or prompts him to produce and achieve. Here's an example. Since we have mentioned Elijah's not having to face biological death, note that before he was taken up into heaven Elisha pleaded with him to "let there be a double portion of your spirit on me" [after you depart]. And it happened! Elijah's inner force or power fell upon Elisha.

What portion of Elijah fell upon Elisha? His spirit. Not his breath, not the wind, not a breeze, but Elijah's inner self, his essential character and force. Hundreds of years after this great prophet was lifted up into heaven, John the Immerser [not "Baptist"] came in the spirit of Elijah—the same essential character and force of the prophet [Matt. 17:12]. John did not come "in the breath" of Elijah. Nor was John "full of wind." Elijah's spirit was the real man. John's spirit resembled Elijah's—not his (Elijah's) breath!

On this subject, it is fascinating that John tells us, "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits..." [I John 4:1]. This testing refers to a man's essential character, his real self. Test him, not his breath, to ascertain his validity. But if we translate "spirit" here to mean "breath," we place ourselves in a ridiculous rut. John is not alluding to testing a man's breath for possible halitosis!

Someday our physical bodies, although returned to dust, will be resurrected and transformed to be like our Lord's glorious body [Phil. 3:20]. As our "spirit returns to God who gave it" [Eccl. 12:7], or returns to His control, I can envision it reuniting with our glorious, transformed body when our Lord returns for the final time.

4WD · Fri May 01, 2026 - 07:58:34

Quote from: Reformer on Thu Apr 30, 2026 - 20:52:17Someday our physical bodies, although returned to dust, will be resurrected and transformed to be like our Lord's glorious body [Phil. 3:20]. As our "spirit returns to God who gave it" [Eccl. 12:7], or returns to His control, I can envision it reuniting with our glorious, transformed body when our Lord returns for the final time.

That body will not be a natural [physical] body, but instead it will be a spiritual body 1 Cor 15:44. And such a body has never been seen before (1 John 3:4). So that body will not be like Jesus' body when he was raised from the dead, because many people saw Him after he was raised, including John himself.

We have not a clue of what that spiritual body will be.

garee · Fri May 01, 2026 - 09:26:55

Quote from: 4WD on Fri May 01, 2026 - 07:58:34That body will not be a natural [physical] body, but instead it will be a spiritual body 1 Cor 15:44. And such a body has never been seen before (1 John 3:4). So that body will not be like Jesus' body when he was raised from the dead, because many people saw Him after he was raised, including John himself.

We have not a clue of what that spiritual body will be.

Quote from: Reformer on Thu Apr 30, 2026 - 20:52:17
A Supernatural Wonder on top
of a High Mountain

Going back two-thousand years or more, one of the most intriguing and unique wonders occurred when our Lord was transfigured on the top of a high mountain, along with Moses and Elijah [Matt. 17]. Jesus' appearance was refashioned to depict a different form or image of Himself. His appearance was resplendent with divine brightness. What a splendid scene that must have been for Peter, James, and John, the three men who were with him.

"Metamorphosis" is another term to describe that supernatural occasion in that there was a change, a recasting, a new shape, an unusual appearance. As usual, impulsive Peter did it again—blundered! He wanted to "build" something to give special allegiance and recognition to each person in the scene. But no! The God above would have no part of that scenario. "This is my Son, you listen to Him!"

Moses was expected to be adhered to under the Old Law, and Elijah's prophecies were to be weighed for their wisdom and divine accuracy. "But my Son is your new Teacher, Lawgiver, Prophet, Chief Shepherd, and Mediator. Hear Him and heed Him," God said to the three men.

In real life, Elijah did not suffer physical death [2 Kings 2:11]. He was taken up to heaven without the usual "passing away" syndrome experienced by all of us—sooner or later. He appeared with Jesus in his glorified form. Moses, however, had died a physical death hundreds of years prior to this heavenly scene. Yet he appeared with his Lord in a glorified form.

It seems that Moses' transformed or glorified form on this occasion did not consist of terrestrial flesh and blood. His flesh and bones were still in the grave, and the resurrection was yet future. He appeared as a celestial being, not of this earth—a "spiritual anatomy," so to speak. His configuration seemed to have been likened to the Lord's.

So the observations and questions naturally follow. Moses was there in person. The episode was not a vision, not a nightmare, not a movie scene, and not figurative. It was real—as real as real can be. Inasmuch as Moses' earthly flesh and blood was not part of the scene, what other part of him was left? His spirit—the real Moses!

A man's spirit is his essential character, the principal element that drives him to action, his very essence. Remove his spirit—essence—from his body and the body dies. "The body without the spirit is dead" [James 2:26].

Yes, I am very much aware the Hebrew and Greek terms for "spirit" also translate "breath" and "wind." Breath and wind, however, are not the essential character or principal element that drives a man to action or prompts him to produce and achieve. Here's an example. Since we have mentioned Elijah's not having to face biological death, note that before he was taken up into heaven Elisha pleaded with him to "let there be a double portion of your spirit on me" [after you depart]. And it happened! Elijah's inner force or power fell upon Elisha.

What portion of Elijah fell upon Elisha? His spirit. Not his breath, not the wind, not a breeze, but Elijah's inner self, his essential character and force. Hundreds of years after this great prophet was lifted up into heaven, John the Immerser [not "Baptist"] came in the spirit of Elijah—the same essential character and force of the prophet [Matt. 17:12]. John did not come "in the breath" of Elijah. Nor was John "full of wind." Elijah's spirit was the real man. John's spirit resembled Elijah's—not his (Elijah's) breath!

On this subject, it is fascinating that John tells us, "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits..." [I John 4:1]. This testing refers to a man's essential character, his real self. Test him, not his breath, to ascertain his validity. But if we translate "spirit" here to mean "breath," we place ourselves in a ridiculous rut. John is not alluding to testing a man's breath for possible halitosis!

Someday our physical bodies, although returned to dust, will be resurrected and transformed to be like our Lord's glorious body [Phil. 3:20]. As our "spirit returns to God who gave it" [Eccl. 12:7], or returns to His control, I can envision it reuniting with our glorious, transformed body when our Lord returns for the final time.

It would seem you are misreading those parables

Returning to lifeless spiritless dust and hoping in reincarnation (Fleshly)It would reveal literalizing the parable which without Christ spoke not.

The father of lies hates parables they hide the mysteries of Christ's faithfulness

Resurrections two the last the wife of Christ the husband not reincarnation .no more absentee daddy many

4WD · Fri May 01, 2026 - 18:00:27

Quote from: garee on Fri May 01, 2026 - 09:26:55It would seem you are misreading those parables

Returning to lifeless spiritless dust and hoping in reincarnation (Fleshly)It would reveal literalizing the parable which without Christ spoke not.

The father of lies hates parables they hide the mysteries of Christ's faithfulness

Resurrections two the last the wife of Christ the husband not reincarnation .no more absentee daddy many

Again, I cannot make any sense whatsoever about what in the world you are talking about.

Amo · Sat May 02, 2026 - 11:36:17

QuoteIt seems that Moses' transformed or glorified form on this occasion did not consist of terrestrial flesh and blood. His flesh and bones were still in the grave, and the resurrection was yet future. He appeared as a celestial being, not of this earth—a "spiritual anatomy," so to speak. His configuration seemed to have been likened to the Lord's.

This is where your quoted article goes wrong.

Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Why do you think the devil was arguing with the archangel about Moses' body? Why would the archangel be wanting Moses' body?

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

It is the voice of the archangel which raises the dead. The devil was arguing with the archangel over the resurrection of Moses. What else would they be arguing about Moses' body for. The Lord took it back. Therefore could Moses appear with our Lord at the transfiguration, he had been resurrected and brought to heaven, which the devil argued with God about. I still do wonder how the apostles present knew that the two individuals with our Lord were Moses and Elijah. Surely they did not know what they looked like. Must be something about our new spiritual bodies.

Amo · Sat May 02, 2026 - 12:02:34

Quote from: 4WD on Fri May 01, 2026 - 07:58:34That body will not be a natural [physical] body, but instead it will be a spiritual body 1 Cor 15:44. And such a body has never been seen before (1 John 3:4). So that body will not be like Jesus' body when he was raised from the dead, because many people saw Him after he was raised, including John himself.

We have not a clue of what that spiritual body will be.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

It is not possible that after our Lord's resurrection, He was still of our natural bodies. This is not the way of the resurrection described above. He was of His spiritual body, though apparently veiled for the apostles to see and recognize.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

The world was created by THE WORD OF GOD, and it will be destroyed also by THE WORD OF GOD.

Psa 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

He shall speak, and it shall be undone, He shall command, and it shall be destroyed.

garee · Sun May 03, 2026 - 08:27:45

Quote from: Amo on Sat May 02, 2026 - 12:02:34It is not possible that after our Lord's resurrection, He was still of our natural bodies. This is not the way of the resurrection described above. He was of His spiritual body, though apparently veiled for the apostles to see and recognize.

1) Not a return to earthly systems (reincarnation)

The two resurrections is not about: recreating earthly roles (status, hierarchy, titles)multiplying mediatorsor continuing the same mortal pattern

Gospel of Matthew 22:30"In the resurrection they neither marry... but are like the messenger from heaven."

That means: no continuation of earthly structures no "his and hers gods " systems carried forward

2) It is related—but transformed It's not unrelated to earthly life—it's the fulfillment of it.

First Epistle to the Corinthians 15:49" As we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image( not likeness) of the man of heaven."

So: Earthly life = seed----------Resurrection = harvest

Same identity—new nature

3) One mediator remain about "legions" of mediators is answered directly:

First Epistle to Timothy 2:5"One God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

That doesn't multiply in the resurrection. It becomes clearer.

4) What replaces "earthly images" Not idols. Not systems. Direct life with God.

First Epistle of John 3:2"We shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is."

That's the goal: not imitation (reincarnation) of man but transformation into our husband Christ's likeness

5) The clean answer to your question

"If not earthly—then what?"

Answer:

Not earthly repetition
Not multiplied mediators
Not idol-like systems

But:

Transformation (1 Cor 15)
Direct relationship (1 Tim 2:5)
Likeness to Christ (1 John 3:2)
Final (your style)

Not dust repeated.
Not images multiplied.

From image → to likeness.
From shadow → to reality.
From many voices → to One.

4WD · Mon May 04, 2026 - 07:58:01

Quote from: Amo on Sat May 02, 2026 - 12:02:34It is not possible that after our Lord's resurrection, He was still of our natural bodies. This is not the way of the resurrection described above. He was of His spiritual body, though apparently veiled for the apostles to see and recognize.

John would not agree with you.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

Rella · Mon May 04, 2026 - 10:33:13

Quote from: 4WD on Mon May 04, 2026 - 07:58:01John would not agree with you.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

OK.... my 2 cents on this.

First thing one has to do is evaluate what you think happened from them closing the tomb by rolling the stone over its opening, to the morning the tomb was found empty.

Things like DID HE decend into hell as we are told from the apostles creed and if he did was that spiritual only leaving his body behind in the tomb?

There is no right or wrong answer but for certain Peter said in 1 Peter 3: 19-20 in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,20)who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

So you may feel that only His "spirit" decended as it were.

We cannot know for certain, but when the "empty" tomb was discovered it had no body laying there SO HOW DID JESUS BODY EXIT THROUGH A STONE DOOR?

For me I say it seems to point to HIS glorified new body. And I suggest that is what John 20 : 17 to is all abpout.

Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

Right here Jesus tells Mary to stop clinging to him because HE HAS NPT YET ASCENDED TO THE FATHER. Yet He tells her to go to "his" brothers and tell them ''I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'... and this appears to be before he makes His appearance...

I believe he was in the process of a change and once He got back to the Father it would be complete, and he would return then to show himself to the disciples...

Remember Mary said in verse 14 said When she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, and did not know that it was Jesus.

Vs15 Jesus said to her, "Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?" Supposing Him to be the gardener, she said to Him, "Sir, if you have carried Him away, tell me where you have laid Him, and I will take Him away."

vs 16 Jesus said to her, "Mary!" She turned and said to Him in Hebrew, "Rabboni!" (which means, Teacher).

MARY HAD TO HEAR HIS VOICE TO RECOGNIZE HIM.

Why?

I believe he was in the process of changing at that moment and her clinging would hinder that, slow it, or contaminate him(?).. and he needed to be pure to go up yo God before he came back down.

Anyway... you will not agree with this...likely. But is my opinion.

Reformer · Mon May 04, 2026 - 11:49:12

Quote from: garee on Fri May 01, 2026 - 09:26:55It would seem you are misreading those parables

Returning to lifeless spiritless dust and hoping in reincarnation (Fleshly)It would reveal literalizing the parable which without Christ spoke not.

The father of lies hates parables they hide the mysteries of Christ's faithfulness

Resurrections two the last the wife of Christ the husband not reincarnation .no more absentee daddy many

Garee, the report about Jesus and His disciples on a high mountain is not a parable. It is, in fact, a fact - an actual happening.

garee · Mon May 04, 2026 - 19:06:07

Quote from: Reformer on Mon May 04, 2026 - 11:49:12
Garee, the report about Jesus and His disciples on a high mountain is not a parable. It is, in fact, a fact - an actual happening.

Reformer, you say the event on the mountain is a fact—and I do not deny the historical reality. But the error is stopping there, as if the account exists only as history. Scripture is given in a signified tongue—what is seen temporally carries the witness of what is unseen eternally. The parable does not replace the history; it fulfills it, enriching it like honey hidden from the god of this world, who has no gospel understanding because he cannot mix what is seen with what is not seen.

This is the pattern given plainly in Second Epistle to the Corinthians 4:18: the believer is trained to look beyond the visible, because the visible is temporal, while the unseen is eternal. Without this "mixing," the account remains only a report, and the gospel remains veiled. And as it is written in Epistle to the Hebrews 4:1–2, the word preached did not profit them, because it was not mixed with faith in those who heard it. That is the dividing line—not whether the event occurred, but whether it is understood according to the two witnesses: the temporal sign and the eternal meaning.

So when Christ speaks in Gospel of Matthew 23:38, "your house is left unto you desolate," He is not merely pointing forward to stones falling decades later. He is revealing a present spiritual condition: a house built by the will of dying mankind, empty of the living presence. The outward temple becomes a sign of the inward desolation. The visible structure stands, yet the unseen reality has already departed.

Likewise in Matthew 24, when the disciples point to the buildings, they are still fixed on what can be seen. Christ turns them away from that focus. The prophecy is not given to satisfy curiosity about signs, but to expose the danger of seeking them. The apostles themselves struggled here—they looked for visible confirmations, for outward manifestations. Yet the answer given redirects them from signs to endurance, from spectacle to faith.

The mountain, the temple, the question of "when"—all of it stands as a layered witness. The historical event is true, but it is not the end of the matter. It is the doorway. If one remains with the visible alone, the understanding remains closed. But when the temporal is mixed with the eternal, then the parable opens, and the gospel rests in the heart.

So the issue is not fact versus parable. It is whether the fact is received as a sign pointing beyond itself. Believers are not led by signs and wonders, but by prophecy rightly divided—comparing spiritual with spiritual—until what is unseen becomes the true ground of faith.

Reformer · Mon May 04, 2026 - 22:14:04

Quote from: garee on Mon May 04, 2026 - 19:06:07Reformer, you say the event on the mountain is a fact—and I do not deny the historical reality. But the error is stopping there, as if the account exists only as history. Scripture is given in a signified tongue—what is seen temporally carries the witness of what is unseen eternally. The parable does not replace the history; it fulfills it, enriching it like honey hidden from the god of this world, who has no gospel understanding because he cannot mix what is seen with what is not seen.

This is the pattern given plainly in Second Epistle to the Corinthians 4:18: the believer is trained to look beyond the visible, because the visible is temporal, while the unseen is eternal. Without this "mixing," the account remains only a report, and the gospel remains veiled. And as it is written in Epistle to the Hebrews 4:1–2, the word preached did not profit them, because it was not mixed with faith in those who heard it. That is the dividing line—not whether the event occurred, but whether it is understood according to the two witnesses: the temporal sign and the eternal meaning.

So when Christ speaks in Gospel of Matthew 23:38, "your house is left unto you desolate," He is not merely pointing forward to stones falling decades later. He is revealing a present spiritual condition: a house built by the will of dying mankind, empty of the living presence. The outward temple becomes a sign of the inward desolation. The visible structure stands, yet the unseen reality has already departed.

Likewise in Matthew 24, when the disciples point to the buildings, they are still fixed on what can be seen. Christ turns them away from that focus. The prophecy is not given to satisfy curiosity about signs, but to expose the danger of seeking them. The apostles themselves struggled here—they looked for visible confirmations, for outward manifestations. Yet the answer given redirects them from signs to endurance, from spectacle to faith.

The mountain, the temple, the question of "when"—all of it stands as a layered witness. The historical event is true, but it is not the end of the matter. It is the doorway. If one remains with the visible alone, the understanding remains closed. But when the temporal is mixed with the eternal, then the parable opens, and the gospel rests in the heart.

So the issue is not fact versus parable. It is whether the fact is received as a sign pointing beyond itself. Believers are not led by signs and wonders, but by prophecy rightly divided—comparing spiritual with spiritual—until what is unseen becomes the true ground of faith.

Garee, perhaps it's me that a lot of what you're saying here seems to be a mixture of messages, ideas, confused analysis, and "untitled topics." But as I said, it might just me and my method of reading others. Anyway, God bless.

garee · Tue May 05, 2026 - 09:43:05

Quote from: Reformer on Mon May 04, 2026 - 22:14:04
Garee, perhaps it's me that a lot of what you're saying here seems to be a mixture of messages, ideas, confused analysis, and "untitled topics." But as I said, it might just me and my method of reading others. Anyway, God bless.

Reformer —

I hear your point about my thoughts sounding mixed. Let me try and simplify what I'm trying to say.

Christ did not teach with a few parables here and there— He taught consistently in that manner. The pattern matters.

Parables do two things at once: they reveal truth to those given understanding
they conceal it from those reading only at the surface

So the issue is not that parables are confusing by accident—they are structured that way on purpose.

That's why Scripture gives us the method:In Second Epistle to the Corinthians 4:18we are told to look beyond what is seen to what is unseen.

That becomes the "mixing":

The visible, historical picture with the invisible, eternal meaning

If that connection is not made, the parable stays closed. the enrichment to the historical loses its value

You can read it, even understand the story,but never enter the rest it was meant to give.

That's what I see happening in Gospel of Luke—even the apostles at times heard the words but missed the meaning, until it was opened to them.

So when I move between passages, I'm not trying to confuse the issue—I'm following what I see as a consistent pattern: one passage gives the picture, another confirms the meaning.

Two witnesses—so we don't build on one verse alone.

That's the method I'm trying to use. it would seem many trust it will change the temporal historical and not just honey gospel sweeten it

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