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So what do we have in scripture? Well we know about this text which many use and more..

Genesis 6:4
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Numbers 13:33
And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

Deuteronomy 1:28
Whither shall we go up? our brethren have discouraged our heart, saying, The people is greater and taller than we; the cities are great and walled up to heaven; and moreover we have seen the sons of the Anakims there.

Deuteronomy 2:11
Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites called them Emims.

Deuteronomy 9:2
A people great and tall, the children of the Anakims, whom thou knowest, and of whom thou hast heard say, Who can stand before the children of Anak!

Joshua 13:12
All the kingdom of Og in Bashan, which reigned in Ashtaroth and in Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants: for these did Moses smite, and cast them out.

Joshua 17:15
And Joshua answered them, If thou be a great people, then get thee up to the wood country, and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee.

Deuteronomy 3:11
11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.

1 Samuel 17:4
And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.

And we get more Bible answers from 'How tall was Adam'?
'The presence of very large animals and insects in the fossil record lends support to the theory that Adam was very tall. In 1940, the fossilized wing of Meganeuropsis americana was unearthed in Oklahoma. This dragonfly-like insect had a wingspan of almost two and a half feet (Harvard Magazine, Nov-Dec 2007, "DRAGONfly," www.harvardmagazine.com, accessed 5/20/20). In 2020, fossils of giant turtles were found in northern South America: the shell of Stupendemys geographicus measures nearly nine and a half feet long, about 100 times the size of its nearest living relative (The Washington Post, Feb 13, 2020, "Turtles the Size of a Car Once Roamed the Earth. Scientists Just Found Their Fossils," Reis Thebault, www.washingtonpost.com/science, accessed 5/20/20). Those who conjecture that Adam was taller than modern man reason that, if the animals were extra big in "prehistoric" times, why not humans?

Another bit of "evidence" suggesting that Adam was of great height is the mention of "giants" in the Bible: the Amorites of Canaan, the Rephaim, and Goliath the Philistine, for example. When encountering the people of Canaan, the majority of the Israelite spies claimed that "the land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size" (Numbers 13:32). Amos states how the Amorites were tall in stature, hyperbolically comparing them to tall cedar trees (Amos 2:9). A Rephaite, King Og of Bashan, who opposed the Israelites in Moses' time, is also described as a giant in the Bible, having a bed that was "more than nine cubits long and four cubits wide" (Deuteronomy 3:11). If the bed matched his stature, then Og could have been around 13 feet tall. Furthermore, Goliath is described as being six cubits and a span, which is over nine feet in height (1 Samuel 17:4).'....

Then we have this from SOP..

"As Adam came forth from the hand of his Creator....He was more than twice as tall as men now living upon the earth....Eve was not quite as tall as Adam. Her head reached a little above his shoulders." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. III p. 34).

Man was the crowning act of the creation of God, made in the image of God, and designed to be a counterpart of God.... Man is very dear to God, because he was formed in His own image. (The Review and Herald, June 18, 1895.)

As Adam came forth from the hand of his Creator he was of noble height and of beautiful symmetry. He was more than twice as tall as men now living upon the earth, and was well proportioned. His features were perfect and beautiful. His complexion was neither white nor sallow, but ruddy, glowing with the rich tint of health. Eve was not quite as tall as Adam. Her head reached a little above his shoulders. She too was noble, perfect in symmetry, and very beautiful. (The Story of Redemption, 21.)

Man came from the hand of God perfect in every faculty of mind and body; in perfect soundness, therefore in perfect health. (Good Health, March 1883)

God endowed man with so great vital force that he has withstood the accumulation of disease brought upon the race in consequence of perverted habits, and has continued for six thousand years....

If Adam, at his creation, had not been endowed with twenty times as much vital force as men now have, the race, with their present habits of living in violation of natural law, would have become extinct. (Testimonies for the Church 3:138, 139.)

Created to be "the image and glory of God," Adam and Eve had received endowments not unworthy of their high destiny. Graceful and symmetrical in form, regular and beautiful in feature, their countenances glowing with the tint of health and the light of joy and hope, they bore in outward resemblance the likeness of their Maker. (Education, 20.)

"Adam's height was much greater than that of men who now inhabit the earth. Eve was somewhat less in stature;" (Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 45).

If Adam was "more than twice as tall as men now living" this may have huge implications on the size of the cubit used to measure Noah's ark.  Even accounting for some shrinking of men from Adam to the flood, you could still possibly have men over 9-10' tall.  The ark could have been nearly double the size we arrive at based on the cubit we have today!

Quote from: Hobie on Sat Feb 24, 2024 - 06:22:43So what do we have in scripture? Well we know about this text which many use..

Genesis 6:4
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Numbers 13:33
And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

Deuteronomy 1:28
Whither shall we go up? our brethren have discouraged our heart, saying, The people is greater and taller than we; the cities are great and walled up to heaven; and moreover we have seen the sons of the Anakims there.

Deuteronomy 2:11
Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites called them Emims.

Deuteronomy 9:2
A people great and tall, the children of the Anakims, whom thou knowest, and of whom thou hast heard say, Who can stand before the children of Anak!

Joshua 13:12
All the kingdom of Og in Bashan, which reigned in Ashtaroth and in Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants: for these did Moses smite, and cast them out.

Joshua 17:15
And Joshua answered them, If thou be a great people, then get thee up to the wood country, and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee.

Deuteronomy 3:11
11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.

1 Samuel 17:4
And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.

And we get more Bible answers from 'How tall was Adam'?
'The presence of very large animals and insects in the fossil record lends support to the theory that Adam was very tall. In 1940, the fossilized wing of Meganeuropsis americana was unearthed in Oklahoma. This dragonfly-like insect had a wingspan of almost two and a half feet (Harvard Magazine, Nov-Dec 2007, "DRAGONfly," www.harvardmagazine.com, accessed 5/20/20). In 2020, fossils of giant turtles were found in northern South America: the shell of Stupendemys geographicus measures nearly nine and a half feet long, about 100 times the size of its nearest living relative (The Washington Post, Feb 13, 2020, "Turtles the Size of a Car Once Roamed the Earth. Scientists Just Found Their Fossils," Reis Thebault, www.washingtonpost.com/science, accessed 5/20/20). Those who conjecture that Adam was taller than modern man reason that, if the animals were extra big in "prehistoric" times, why not humans?

Another bit of "evidence" suggesting that Adam was of great height is the mention of "giants" in the Bible: the Amorites of Canaan, the Rephaim, and Goliath the Philistine, for example. When encountering the people of Canaan, the majority of the Israelite spies claimed that "the land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size" (Numbers 13:32). Amos states how the Amorites were tall in stature, hyperbolically comparing them to tall cedar trees (Amos 2:9). A Rephaite, King Og of Bashan, who opposed the Israelites in Moses' time, is also described as a giant in the Bible, having a bed that was "more than nine cubits long and four cubits wide" (Deuteronomy 3:11). If the bed matched his stature, then Og could have been around 13 feet tall. Furthermore, Goliath is described as being six cubits and a span, which is over nine feet in height (1 Samuel 17:4).'....

Then we have this from SOP..

"As Adam came forth from the hand of his Creator....He was more than twice as tall as men now living upon the earth....Eve was not quite as tall as Adam. Her head reached a little above his shoulders." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. III p. 34).

Man was the crowning act of the creation of God, made in the image of God, and designed to be a counterpart of God.... Man is very dear to God, because he was formed in His own image. (The Review and Herald, June 18, 1895.)

As Adam came forth from the hand of his Creator he was of noble height and of beautiful symmetry. He was more than twice as tall as men now living upon the earth, and was well proportioned. His features were perfect and beautiful. His complexion was neither white nor sallow, but ruddy, glowing with the rich tint of health. Eve was not quite as tall as Adam. Her head reached a little above his shoulders. She too was noble, perfect in symmetry, and very beautiful. (The Story of Redemption, 21.)

Man came from the hand of God perfect in every faculty of mind and body; in perfect soundness, therefore in perfect health. (Good Health, March 1883)

God endowed man with so great vital force that he has withstood the accumulation of disease brought upon the race in consequence of perverted habits, and has continued for six thousand years....

If Adam, at his creation, had not been endowed with twenty times as much vital force as men now have, the race, with their present habits of living in violation of natural law, would have become extinct. (Testimonies for the Church 3:138, 139.)

Created to be "the image and glory of God," Adam and Eve had received endowments not unworthy of their high destiny. Graceful and symmetrical in form, regular and beautiful in feature, their countenances glowing with the tint of health and the light of joy and hope, they bore in outward resemblance the likeness of their Maker. (Education, 20.)

"Adam's height was much greater than that of men who now inhabit the earth. Eve was somewhat less in stature;" (Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 45).

If Adam was "more than twice as tall as men now living" this may have huge implications on the size of the cubit used to measure Noah's ark.  Even accounting for some shrinking of men from Adam to the flood, you could still possibly have men over 9-10' tall.  The ark could have been nearly double the size we arrive at based on the cubit we have today!

I just yesterday was reading and looking at this subject...

You are going to have few takers on this as most here... as Amo will tell you... are not holding to Giant ideas... even when they come from the bible.

Your quote of Genesis 6:4
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters...

King  Jimmys translation of giants, where others state Nephelim does not exactly have the same umph...

NAS95 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

For some reason this seems appropriate and we do have those other mentions of giants...

Numbers 13:33
And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

Deuteronomy 2:20,21
(That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims; ...

Deuteronomy 3:11
For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.

But I never related it to Adam until I saw it yesterday and now from you.

And see even Got Questions backs you up.

Good find... and thanks for posting.

Quote from: Hobie on Sat Feb 24, 2024 - 06:22:43So what do we have in scripture? Well we know about this text which many use..

Genesis 6:4
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Numbers 13:33
And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

Deuteronomy 1:28
Whither shall we go up? our brethren have discouraged our heart, saying, The people is greater and taller than we; the cities are great and walled up to heaven; and moreover we have seen the sons of the Anakims there.

Deuteronomy 2:11
Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites called them Emims.

Deuteronomy 9:2
A people great and tall, the children of the Anakims, whom thou knowest, and of whom thou hast heard say, Who can stand before the children of Anak!

Joshua 13:12
All the kingdom of Og in Bashan, which reigned in Ashtaroth and in Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants: for these did Moses smite, and cast them out.

Joshua 17:15
And Joshua answered them, If thou be a great people, then get thee up to the wood country, and cut down for thyself there in the land of the Perizzites and of the giants, if mount Ephraim be too narrow for thee.

Deuteronomy 3:11
11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.

1 Samuel 17:4
And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.

And we get more Bible answers from 'How tall was Adam'?
'The presence of very large animals and insects in the fossil record lends support to the theory that Adam was very tall. In 1940, the fossilized wing of Meganeuropsis americana was unearthed in Oklahoma. This dragonfly-like insect had a wingspan of almost two and a half feet (Harvard Magazine, Nov-Dec 2007, "DRAGONfly," www.harvardmagazine.com, accessed 5/20/20). In 2020, fossils of giant turtles were found in northern South America: the shell of Stupendemys geographicus measures nearly nine and a half feet long, about 100 times the size of its nearest living relative (The Washington Post, Feb 13, 2020, "Turtles the Size of a Car Once Roamed the Earth. Scientists Just Found Their Fossils," Reis Thebault, www.washingtonpost.com/science, accessed 5/20/20). Those who conjecture that Adam was taller than modern man reason that, if the animals were extra big in "prehistoric" times, why not humans?

Another bit of "evidence" suggesting that Adam was of great height is the mention of "giants" in the Bible: the Amorites of Canaan, the Rephaim, and Goliath the Philistine, for example. When encountering the people of Canaan, the majority of the Israelite spies claimed that "the land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size" (Numbers 13:32). Amos states how the Amorites were tall in stature, hyperbolically comparing them to tall cedar trees (Amos 2:9). A Rephaite, King Og of Bashan, who opposed the Israelites in Moses' time, is also described as a giant in the Bible, having a bed that was "more than nine cubits long and four cubits wide" (Deuteronomy 3:11). If the bed matched his stature, then Og could have been around 13 feet tall. Furthermore, Goliath is described as being six cubits and a span, which is over nine feet in height (1 Samuel 17:4).'....

Then we have this from SOP..

"As Adam came forth from the hand of his Creator....He was more than twice as tall as men now living upon the earth....Eve was not quite as tall as Adam. Her head reached a little above his shoulders." (Spiritual Gifts, Vol. III p. 34).

Man was the crowning act of the creation of God, made in the image of God, and designed to be a counterpart of God.... Man is very dear to God, because he was formed in His own image. (The Review and Herald, June 18, 1895.)

As Adam came forth from the hand of his Creator he was of noble height and of beautiful symmetry. He was more than twice as tall as men now living upon the earth, and was well proportioned. His features were perfect and beautiful. His complexion was neither white nor sallow, but ruddy, glowing with the rich tint of health. Eve was not quite as tall as Adam. Her head reached a little above his shoulders. She too was noble, perfect in symmetry, and very beautiful. (The Story of Redemption, 21.)

Man came from the hand of God perfect in every faculty of mind and body; in perfect soundness, therefore in perfect health. (Good Health, March 1883)

God endowed man with so great vital force that he has withstood the accumulation of disease brought upon the race in consequence of perverted habits, and has continued for six thousand years....

If Adam, at his creation, had not been endowed with twenty times as much vital force as men now have, the race, with their present habits of living in violation of natural law, would have become extinct. (Testimonies for the Church 3:138, 139.)

Created to be "the image and glory of God," Adam and Eve had received endowments not unworthy of their high destiny. Graceful and symmetrical in form, regular and beautiful in feature, their countenances glowing with the tint of health and the light of joy and hope, they bore in outward resemblance the likeness of their Maker. (Education, 20.)

"Adam's height was much greater than that of men who now inhabit the earth. Eve was somewhat less in stature;" (Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 45).

If Adam was "more than twice as tall as men now living" this may have huge implications on the size of the cubit used to measure Noah's ark.  Even accounting for some shrinking of men from Adam to the flood, you could still possibly have men over 9-10' tall.  The ark could have been nearly double the size we arrive at based on the cubit we have today!

However: With what I have said above, and agree that the assumptions about Adam's height may well be correct...

On question.

Why are there not one bit od skeletal evidence they did exist?

As I have shared in the Giants thread in the past, there are many claims of evidence found in the past, which have disappeared to date. Either there have been a whole lot of hoaxes concerning this one issue throughout history, or there truly is an agenda driven campaign to destroy and mock all such claims. I went back to the Giants thread and attempted to open a link I had to a video documenting a giant femur bone they had in a museum in France I believe, but the link no longer had the video. Nor could I find it anywhere, anymore. Just another bit of ever disappearing evidence I suppose.

Quote from: Amo on Sat Feb 24, 2024 - 12:11:23As I have shared in the Giants thread in the past, there are many claims of evidence found in the past, which have disappeared to date. Either there have been a whole lot of hoaxes concerning this one issue throughout history, or there truly is an agenda driven campaign to destroy and mock all such claims. I went back to the Giants thread and attempted to open a link I had to a video documenting a giant femur bone they had in a museum in France I believe, but the link no longer had the video. Nor could I find it anywhere, anymore. Just another bit of ever disappearing evidence I suppose.

    

Quote from: Rella on Sat Feb 24, 2024 - 07:34:16I just yesterday was reading and looking at this subject...

You are going to have few takers on this as most here... as Amo will tell you... are not holding to Giant ideas... even when they come from the bible.

Your quote of Genesis 6:4
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters...

King  Jimmys translation of giants, where others state Nephelim does not exactly have the same umph...

NAS95 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

For some reason this seems appropriate and we do have those other mentions of giants...

Numbers 13:33
And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

Deuteronomy 2:20,21
(That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims; ...

Deuteronomy 3:11
For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.

But I never related it to Adam until I saw it yesterday and now from you.

And see even Got Questions backs you up.

Good find... and thanks for posting.

The bible makes no mention of the height of Adam.  Being that there were giants doesn't prove the height of Adam.

Without the SOP, a type of Book of Mormon for the SDA's, this discussion would be moot.  You get Eisegesis in these discussions.

Ellen White and other false SDA prophets lay out a belief, and then its adherents search the scriptures to support the lies from their false prophets.  That is eisegesis. 

Exegesis is when you look at the text to interpret the text.  Not the SOP.

Adam always claimed to be 3 and 1/2  cubits, but if you talk to Eve off the record, she'll tell you it was closer to 3 and 1/4. 

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Mon Feb 26, 2024 - 10:04:41Adam always claimed to be 3 and 1/2  cubits, but if you talk to Eve off the record, she'll tell you it was closer to 3 and 1/4. 

 

I will make no comment.

Quote from: Rella on Mon Feb 26, 2024 - 10:26:35

I will make no comment.

Are you going to at least read the Spirit of Prophecy?

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Mon Feb 26, 2024 - 11:12:12Are you going to at least read the Spirit of Prophecy?

Should I? You talk disparagingly about it so I will rely on you.

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Mon Feb 26, 2024 - 11:12:12Are you going to at least read the Spirit of Prophecy?

I am afraid....

This from the bottom of page 1 of Spirit of Prophesy, vol 1

Copyright © 2024 by Ellen G. White. All Rights Reserved.

Copyright by Ellen G. White..... She lives   

https://ia803106.us.archive.org/16/items/tgwra/The%20Ancient%20Giants%20Who%20Ruled%20America%20by%20Richard%20J.%20Dewhurst%20%282014%29.pdf

THE ANCIENT GIANTS WHO RULED AMERICA

The average height of an adult male in the Bronze Age was about 5'5, based on the skeletons.

The height of a Bronze Age fertility goddess can range from just a few inches to over 10'. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gM_rUNe_5Fc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afNhfgP-Y8Q

Quote from: Rella on Sat Feb 24, 2024 - 07:34:16I just yesterday was reading and looking at this subject...

You are going to have few takers on this as most here... as Amo will tell you... are not holding to Giant ideas... even when they come from the bible.

Your quote of Genesis 6:4
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters...

King  Jimmys translation of giants, where others state Nephelim does not exactly have the same umph...

NAS95 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

For some reason this seems appropriate and we do have those other mentions of giants...

Numbers 13:33
And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

Deuteronomy 2:20,21
(That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims; ...

Deuteronomy 3:11
For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.

But I never related it to Adam until I saw it yesterday and now from you.

And see even Got Questions backs you up.

Good find... and thanks for posting.

Well, the fact that it scared the Children of Israel so bad they almost backed UT of coming into the Promised Land is very telling...

Quote from: Hobie on Fri May 10, 2024 - 18:18:53Well, the fact that it scared the Children of Israel so bad they almost backed UT of coming into the Promised Land is very telling...

Very true.

Then why do you suppose so many are reluctant to accept giants as fact?

For any that want to read the Dead Sea Scroll Fragments
on "Book of Giants"  (Enoch) they are here. But then you have to be a believer in Enoch's writings for them to hold any weight.

http://www.gnosis.org/library/dss/dss_book_of_giants.htm

Quote from: Texas Conservative on Mon Feb 26, 2024 - 07:45:43The bible makes no mention of the height of Adam.  Being that there were giants doesn't prove the height of Adam.

Without the SOP, a type of Book of Mormon for the SDA's, this discussion would be moot.  You get Eisegesis in these discussions.

Ellen White and other false SDA prophets lay out a belief, and then its adherents search the scriptures to support the lies from their false prophets.  That is eisegesis. 

Exegesis is when you look at the text to interpret the text.  Not the SOP.

Have you seen the size of the animals during that time, take for example the wolly mammoth or saber tooth tigers or sloths, etc.. Man had to be proportional..

Quote from: Hobie on Sat May 09, 2026 - 18:41:02Have you seen the size of the animals during that time, take for example the wolly mammoth or saber tooth tigers or sloths, etc.. Man had to be proportional..

That's the same as saying, "look at the elephant and the blue whale today! People must be proportional to those."

Logically flawed argument.

Quote from: Hobie on Sat May 09, 2026 - 18:41:02Have you seen the size of the animals during that time, take for example the wolly mammoth or saber tooth tigers or sloths, etc.. Man had to be proportional..

Sons of God any height are born again believers they were procreating with unbelievers daughters of dying mankind .


They had violated the law not to be unevenly yoked with the non redeemed .

They lost there privilege's of outwardly representing our invisible Holy Father. In order to make sure men knew inspiration was not inspired of dying earth. Christ  gave  the new rainbow witness--- heavenly inspired coming down like rain new born again growth (Deuteronomy 32:1-2) 

Sons of God that procreated with unbeliever remained after the flood the same loving law today do not be unevenly yoked with unbelievers applied today .

No need to trust in the lies of the lying signs to wonder, wonder,  imagine after just as if it was true prophecy .

Sign follow faithful "Let there be" not lead.  Our Holy Father is still sending strong delusion to those who trust--- put their own personal faith in earthly inspired----  believer measure by faith the unseen eternal things of our mighty husband Christ


Faith measures the unseen eternal things, not the outward measure temporal things seen. The heavenly witness comes down like rain from above, not upward from the traditions and imaginations of dying men. 

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Sat May 09, 2026 - 18:58:29That's the same as saying, "look at the elephant and the blue whale today! People must be proportional to those."

Logically flawed argument.

If there were only two creatures of much greater stature in the past, as your argument suggests, your argument might carry some weight. To the contrary though, the list of much larger animals, sea creatures, insects, plants, and even cellular structures is quite extensive, and apparently ever growing. Therefore, it is your own argument that is flawed, or position which refuses the very possible connection which observable evidence logically suggests. Perhaps another extensive posting of articles regarding the subject, as that which I have posted  in the giants topic over the years would be appropriate. If time allows, I think such would be intellectually profitable.

I know there is much resistance in the church, and probably even more so in secular science, to the idea of there being a hybrid species of the mating of humans and fallen angels.

However, the books of Enoch specifically state that it happened.  While not biblical, Enoch was well known to the NT authors and even gets quoted in a couple of places.  First Enoch chapters 6-8 describe the "watchers" who were fallen angels that mated with human women. Now IF that is true, (and I see no reason to dismiss it) then the giant bones that have been found (and later eliminated) would have been from those giants, NOT Adam and his legitimate decedents.

Quote from: Amo on Sun May 10, 2026 - 09:34:09If there were only two creatures of much greater stature in the past, as your argument suggests, your argument might carry some weight.

It's not just two creatures today, either.  Moose exist.  There are Rhinos and Hippos, etc.

Wait, why are you responding?  I responded to Hobie, not you.

Quote from: DaveW on Sun May 10, 2026 - 13:48:57I know there is much resistance in the church, and probably even more so in secular science, to the idea of there being a hybrid species of the mating of humans and fallen angels.

However, the books of Enoch specifically state that it happened.  While not biblical, Enoch was well known to the NT authors and even gets quoted in a couple of places.  First Enoch chapters 6-8 describe the "watchers" who were fallen angels that mated with human women. Now IF that is true, (and I see no reason to dismiss it) then the giant bones that have been found (and later eliminated) would have been from those giants, NOT Adam and his legitimate decedents.

Thank you for saying this DaveW. I think a lot of the anti-arguments come  from those who cannot fathom such could have been therefore excuses abound.

I find Enoch a fascinating read...and very supportive of some things naysayers say these days....

I have my own theory or two on this subject but wont voice it because of being shot down..... been there /done that.

If we just had absolute definitive proof  of how far back Dy one really went, or if day one might have come after all these big things like dinosaurs had already died off... then there would be no need to be concerned of the size of man in the beginning.

As you say "  First Enoch chapters 6-8 describe the "watchers" who were fallen angels that mated with human women. Now IF that is true, (and I see no reason to dismiss it) then the giant bones that have been found (and later eliminated) would have been from those giants, NOT Adam and his legitimate decedents. "

But at the same time I just cannot help wonder why there currently are not site digs in areas around the country ... especially undisturbed mounds to see if they cannot turn up one human bone. All it would take would be one.... but seems like those who may have spirited them away did a great job to say they all .. everyone of them not only nationwide but world wide were hoaxes. SMH

I will close with one comment to this of yours "and probably even more so in secular science, to the idea of there being a hybrid species of the mating of humans and fallen angels. " Yet these same scientists will go to great length to claim evolution, not to mention the animal hybrids that have come into the world that are with us even today.

I digress...

Blessings

Quote from: DaveW on Sun May 10, 2026 - 13:48:57I know there is much resistance in the church, and probably even more so in secular science, to the idea of there being a hybrid species of the mating of humans and fallen angels.

However, the books of Enoch specifically state that it happened.  While not biblical, Enoch was well known to the NT authors and even gets quoted in a couple of places.  First Enoch chapters 6-8 describe the "watchers" who were fallen angels that mated with human women. Now IF that is true, (and I see no reason to dismiss it) then the giant bones that have been found (and later eliminated) would have been from those giants, NOT Adam and his legitimate decedents.

I would offer. . No oral traditions added later — including what some call the book of Enoch — should be used to overturn the consistent witness of scripture itself.

Enoch himself was a born-again son of God walking by faith. The phrase "sons of God" throughout scripture points to those belonging to God through His Spirit, not to invisible angelic beings producing hybrid races of giants.

The term is repeatedly tied to covenant relationship, inheritance, faith, and spiritual sonship — not mythological mixtures between angels and women.

The idea of fallen angels physically mating with women produces an imaginative system filled with giants, hidden creatures, secret books, and sensational signs to wonder after.

That resembles the pattern of the father of lies — the king of counterfeit signs and false parables diverting attention away from the true gospel.

The real corruption in Genesis was not angelic biology but spiritual corruption: the sons of God becoming unequally yoked with unbelief and departing from the authority of God's living word.

That same warning remains today.

The counterfeit gospel continually pulls men toward hidden mysteries, sensational stories, mystical bloodlines, and speculative signs.

But the true gospel points back to Christ in us, Emmanuel, and to the simplicity of faith grounded in the written witness.

The danger is not merely error in interpretation. It is replacing the spiritual parable with outward mythological speculation that causes men to wonder after signs rather than rest in the sufficiency of Christ.

Quote from: garee on Mon May 11, 2026 - 07:29:37I would offer. . No oral traditions added later — including what some call the book of Enoch — should be used to overturn the consistent witness of scripture itself.

Enoch himself was a born-again son of God walking by faith. The phrase "sons of God" throughout scripture points to those belonging to God through His Spirit, not to invisible angelic beings producing hybrid races of giants.

The term is repeatedly tied to covenant relationship, inheritance, faith, and spiritual sonship — not mythological mixtures between angels and women.

The idea of fallen angels physically mating with women produces an imaginative system filled with giants, hidden creatures, secret books, and sensational signs to wonder after.

That resembles the pattern of the father of lies — the king of counterfeit signs and false parables diverting attention away from the true gospel.

The real corruption in Genesis was not angelic biology but spiritual corruption: the sons of God becoming unequally yoked with unbelief and departing from the authority of God's living word.

That same warning remains today.

The counterfeit gospel continually pulls men toward hidden mysteries, sensational stories, mystical bloodlines, and speculative signs.

But the true gospel points back to Christ in us, Emmanuel, and to the simplicity of faith grounded in the written witness.

The danger is not merely error in interpretation. It is replacing the spiritual parable with outward mythological speculation that causes men to wonder after signs rather than rest in the sufficiency of Christ.

Frankly you have me totally confused here. But if you are saying that only the 66 books of the Holy Book, or the 73 books of the RCC , or the 81 books of the Ethiopian Bible should be followed .. Let's do that and you will see that it is the Bible mentioning the Nephilim in Genesis 6:1-4 and Numbers 13:33, describing them as mighty beings, often interpreted as giants or the offspring of divine beings and humans. Their existence is linked to the moral decline of humanity before the Flood.

And we cannot discount that in each of the aforementioned bibles we have an account of David in 1 Sam 17:41-52 slewing Goliath who is said to be a Philistine warrior of giant stature who plays a pivotal role in the origin myth of King David in the Book of Samuel. According to 1 Samuel, Goliath challenges the Israelites to best him in single combat. David, then a young shepherd, takes up the challenge and kills Goliath with a stone slung from a sling.

And what about King Og..... Either he was a giant or had his bed made so large as to have a royal feast spread out while he lounged... or multiple "guests" visitijng him at night.

Just look at how many verses mention him....


1 Kings 4:19
Geber the son of Uri [was] in the country of Gilead, [in] the country of Sihon king of the Amorites, and of Og king of Bashan; and [he was] the only officer which [was] in the land.

Deuteronomy 1:4
After he had slain Sihon the king of the Amorites, which dwelt in Heshbon, and Og the king of Bashan, which dwelt at Astaroth in Edrei:

Deuteronomy 29:7
And when ye came unto this place, Sihon the king of Heshbon, and Og the king of Bashan, came out against us unto battle, and we smote them:

Deuteronomy 3:1
Then we turned, and went up the way to Bashan: and Og the king of Bashan came out against us, he and all his people, to battle at Edrei.

Deuteronomy 3:10
All the cities of the plain, and all Gilead, and all Bashan, unto Salchah and Edrei, cities of the kingdom of Og in Bashan.

Deuteronomy 3:11
For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead [was] a bedstead of iron; [is] it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits [was] the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.

Deuteronomy 3:13
And the rest of Gilead, and all Bashan, [being] the kingdom of Og, gave I unto the half tribe of Manasseh; all the region of Argob, with all Bashan, which was called the land of giants.

Deuteronomy 31:4
And the LORD shall do unto them as he did to Sihon and to Og, kings of the Amorites, and unto the land of them, whom he destroyed.

Deuteronomy 3:3
So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining.

Deuteronomy 3:4
And we took all his cities at that time, there was not a city which we took not from them, threescore cities, all the region of Argob, the kingdom of Og in Bashan.

Deuteronomy 4:47
And they possessed his land, and the land of Og king of Bashan, two kings of the Amorites, which [were] on this side Jordan toward the sun rising;

Joshua 12:4
And the coast of Og king of Bashan, [which was] of the remnant of the giants, that dwelt at Ashtaroth and at Edrei,

Joshua 13:12
All the kingdom of Og in Bashan, which reigned in Ashtaroth and in Edrei, who remained of the remnant of the giants: for these did Moses smite, and cast them out.

Joshua 13:30
And their coast was from Mahanaim, all Bashan, all the kingdom of Og king of Bashan, and all the towns of Jair, which [are] in Bashan, threescore cities:

Joshua 13:31
And half Gilead, and Ashtaroth, and Edrei, cities of the kingdom of Og in Bashan, [were pertaining] unto the children of Machir the son of Manasseh, [even] to the one half of the children of Machir by their families.

Joshua 2:10
For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that [were] on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed.

Joshua 9:10
And all that he did to the two kings of the Amorites, that [were] beyond Jordan, to Sihon king of Heshbon, and to Og king of Bashan, which [was] at Ashtaroth.

Nehemiah 9:22
Moreover thou gavest them kingdoms and nations, and didst divide them into corners: so they possessed the land of Sihon, and the land of the king of Heshbon, and the land of Og king of Bashan.

Numbers 21:33
And they turned and went up by the way of Bashan: and Og the king of Bashan went out against them, he, and all his people, to the battle at Edrei.

Numbers 32:33
And Moses gave unto them, [even] to the children of Gad, and to the children of Reuben, and unto half the tribe of Manasseh the son of Joseph, the kingdom of Sihon king of the Amorites, and the kingdom of Og king of Bashan, the land, with the cities thereof in the coasts, [even] the cities of the country round about.

Psalms 135:11
Sihon king of the Amorites, and Og king of Bashan, and all the kingdoms of Canaan:

Psalms 136:20
And Og the king of Bashan: for his mercy [endureth] for ever:

Not to ignore the Jewish writings where the Nephilim are mentioned in various Jewish writings, including the Hebrew Bible, particularly in Genesis 6:1-4 and Numbers 13:33.

Septuagint LXX says Gen 6:2 And the sons of God were beholding the daughters of men, that they are good, that they took to themselves women from all of whom they chose.


So your suggestion that maybe this idea  "That resembles the pattern of the father of lies — the king of counterfeit signs and false parables diverting attention away from the true gospel. has corrupted the very inspired words of Yahweh WILL NOT hold water.

I can't see fallen angels being referred to as sons of God. Or un fallen angels mating with humans. Angels neither marry nor are given in marriage, and most likely therefore, cannot reproduce among themselves let alone with aliens. Fallen one's at that. To far fetched. Especially when scripture declares that there were giants in the earth during antediluvian days, and then says that the sons of God went in unto the daughters of men after already stating that their were giants in those days. 

Quote from: DaveW on Sun May 10, 2026 - 13:48:57I know there is much resistance in the church, and probably even more so in secular science, to the idea of there being a hybrid species of the mating of humans and fallen angels.

However, the books of Enoch specifically state that it happened.

Ok, but are we sure that Enoch defines "angels" as supernatural beings?  I think there's a good argument that Enoch is simply naming a different race of men.  One that happens to be bigger/taller than the Israelites, yes.  But not non-human.

Later in the book, when Enoch is giving all the races of men, and assigning each of them a symbolic animal, the giants are listed there.  Their animal is the elephant.

In the Bible, ALL of the giants are of the race of the Amorites.

Quote from: Amo on Tue May 12, 2026 - 09:14:42I can't see fallen angels being referred to as sons of God. Or un fallen angels mating with humans. Angels neither marry nor are given in marriage, and most likely therefore, cannot reproduce among themselves let alone with aliens. Fallen one's at that. To far fetched. Especially when scripture declares that there were giants in the earth during antediluvian days, and then says that the sons of God went in unto the daughters of men after already stating that their were giants in those days. 

Then you dont believe the bible accounts.

What did Ellen say about this?

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Tue May 12, 2026 - 11:29:22Ok, but are we sure that Enoch defines "angels" as supernatural beings?  I think there's a good argument that Enoch is simply naming a different race of men.  One that happens to be bigger/taller than the Israelites, yes.  But not non-human.

Later in the book, when Enoch is giving all the races of men, and assigning each of them a symbolic animal, the giants are listed there.  Their animal is the elephant.

In the Bible, ALL of the giants are of the race of the Amorites.

Jarrod, I say yes.

Yes, in the 1 Enoch, Enoch absolutely treats "angels" as supernatural heavenly beings, not merely human messengers or symbolic figures.
Especially in the section called the Book of the Watchers (1 Enoch chapters 1–36), the "Watchers" are described as heavenly beings who:

descend from heaven to earth, take human women, father the Nephilim/giants,
teach forbidden knowledge, and are later judged by God.

That is why many people connect 1 Enoch with Genesis 6:1–4 ("sons of God" and Nephilim).

Enoch presents these beings as: pre-existent heavenly entities, capable of leaving their proper realm, possessing supernatural power and knowledge,
and distinct from humanity.

So in Enoch's worldview, angels are unquestionably supernatural beings.

One important distinction though:

The Book of Enoch is not part of the biblical canon for most Christians (except primarily the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church).

But it was very influential in Second Temple Judaism, and parts of its worldview appear to influence New Testament language ~ especially in Jude and 2 Peter.

For example, Jude references angels leaving their proper habitation, which sounds very Enochic.

So if your underlying question is:

"Did ancient Jews around the time of Jesus often understand angels as literal supernatural beings?"

 Then yes, very much so, and 1 Enoch is one of the clearest examples of that worldview.

Quote from: Rella on Tue May 12, 2026 - 16:49:22Jarrod, I say yes.

Yes, in the 1 Enoch, Enoch absolutely treats "angels" as supernatural heavenly beings, not merely human messengers or symbolic figures.
Especially in the section called the Book of the Watchers (1 Enoch chapters 1–36), the "Watchers" are described as heavenly beings who:

descend from heaven to earth, take human women, father the Nephilim/giants,
teach forbidden knowledge, and are later judged by God.

That is why many people connect 1 Enoch with Genesis 6:1–4 ("sons of God" and Nephilim).

Enoch presents these beings as: pre-existent heavenly entities, capable of leaving their proper realm, possessing supernatural power and knowledge,
and distinct from humanity.

So in Enoch's worldview, angels are unquestionably supernatural beings.

One important distinction though:

The Book of Enoch is not part of the biblical canon for most Christians (except primarily the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church).

But it was very influential in Second Temple Judaism, and parts of its worldview appear to influence New Testament language ~ especially in Jude and 2 Peter.

For example, Jude references angels leaving their proper habitation, which sounds very Enochic.

So if your underlying question is:

"Did ancient Jews around the time of Jesus often understand angels as literal supernatural beings?"

Then yes, very much so, and 1 Enoch is one of the clearest examples of that worldview.

The idea of invisible shape-shifting entities producing new revelations becomes another pathway for sign-seeking religion and wondering after mystical beings rather than resting in the finished testimony of Christ.---sola scriptura

Scripture (sola scriptura) warns repeatedly about lying signs and wonders that captivate the unbelieving world.

The danger is creating a second source of faith beside Christ in us.

A legion of invisible intermediaries, patron saints, mystical beings, apparitions, and supernatural systems can easily become a substitute structure that shifts trust away from the living Word and toward experiences, visions, and unseen personalities.

But the gospel points back to one source:

"Christ in you, the hope of glory."

Not Christ plus a hierarchy of mystical beings.

Not Christ plus hidden revelations.

Not Christ plus signs that cause men to wonder.

The true hope is not found in chasing invisible powers or extra revelations, but in the finished work of Christ revealed through the unbroken scripture.

"The scripture cannot be broken."

The faith once delivered does not need continual mystical additions from signs, apparitions, or imaginative systems built around unseen entities.

Christ alone in His people remains the living hope — not a legion of wonder-producing spirits competing for devotion.

Quote from: Rella on Tue May 12, 2026 - 16:49:22That is why many people connect 1 Enoch with Genesis 6:1–4 ("sons of God" and Nephilim).

Enoch presents these beings as: pre-existent heavenly entities, capable of leaving their proper realm, possessing supernatural power and knowledge,
and distinct from humanity.

So in Enoch's worldview, angels are unquestionably supernatural beings.

Not only was this Enoch's worldview, it was also the view of the Pharisees (as opposed to the Sadducees who did NOT believe in angels or spirits or a bodily resurrection - Acts 23:8-10).

You have been discussing the skeletal remains of giants - and I will add a bit on this theme.  If you have ever looked into any of Ron Wyatt's discoveries, you would find that he was able to document that in the Hebron site of the true cave of Machpelah where Abraham and other family members were buried, the farmers who owned that particular site had discovered the skeletal remains of at least 13 giant individuals.  Three of these were complete skeletons measuring approximately 3 meters, which the farmers reburied on their land.  They also discovered a cave with ten enlarged skulls of similar giant size with the teeth intact. 

I include this information here because Ron Wyatt was a SDA.  Frankly, for me that has little bearing on whether his discoveries were verifiably true or not.  If the Scriptures tell us that there were hybrid giant progeny produced by the angelic sons of God going after "OTHER FLESH" by marrying human women against the rules of their own proper sphere in heaven, then there is no reason why we could not find skeletal evidence of such.   

 

Quote from: Rella on Tue May 12, 2026 - 16:42:16Then you dont believe the bible accounts.

What did Ellen say about this?

The bible says nowhere, that fallen angels are referred to as sons of God. People presume that the sons of God mentioned in Genesis we are discussing refers to fallen angels. Unless they think un fallen  angels mated with woman out of wedlock.

To the contrary, scripture separates fallen angels from the rest being referred to as the sons of God.

Job 2:1  Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Satan was not one of them, he came also as separate from them.

Quote from: 3 Resurrections on Wed May 13, 2026 - 08:56:51Not only was this Enoch's worldview, it was also the view of the Pharisees (as opposed to the Sadducees who did NOT believe in angels or spirits or a bodily resurrection - Acts 23:8-10).

You have been discussing the skeletal remains of giants - and I will add a bit on this theme.  If you have ever looked into any of Ron Wyatt's discoveries, you would find that he was able to document that in the Hebron site of the true cave of Machpelah where Abraham and other family members were buried, the farmers who owned that particular site had discovered the skeletal remains of at least 13 giant individuals.  Three of these were complete skeletons measuring approximately 3 meters, which the farmers reburied on their land.  They also discovered a cave with ten enlarged skulls of similar giant size with the teeth intact. 

I include this information here because Ron Wyatt was a SDA.  Frankly, for me that has little bearing on whether his discoveries were verifiably true or not.  If the Scriptures tell us that there were hybrid giant progeny produced by the angelic sons of God going after "OTHER FLESH" by marrying human women against the rules of their own proper sphere in heaven, then there is no reason why we could not find skeletal evidence of such.   

 

  

Quote from: garee on Tue May 12, 2026 - 19:57:58The idea of invisible shape-shifting entities producing new revelations becomes another pathway for sign-seeking religion and wondering after mystical beings rather than resting in the finished testimony of Christ.---sola scriptura

Scripture (sola scriptura) warns repeatedly about lying signs and wonders that captivate the unbelieving world.

The danger is creating a second source of faith beside Christ in us.

A legion of invisible intermediaries, patron saints, mystical beings, apparitions, and supernatural systems can easily become a substitute structure that shifts trust away from the living Word and toward experiences, visions, and unseen personalities.

But the gospel points back to one source:

"Christ in you, the hope of glory."

Not Christ plus a hierarchy of mystical beings.

Not Christ plus hidden revelations.

Not Christ plus signs that cause men to wonder.

The true hope is not found in chasing invisible powers or extra revelations, but in the finished work of Christ revealed through the unbroken scripture.

"The scripture cannot be broken."

The faith once delivered does not need continual mystical additions from signs, apparitions, or imaginative systems built around unseen entities.

Christ alone in His people remains the living hope — not a legion of wonder-producing spirits competing for devotion.

So you do not believe in giants. Even though they are mentioned in the Holy Bopok.

Weird.

Quote from: Amo on Wed May 13, 2026 - 11:06:33The bible says nowhere, that fallen angels are referred to as sons of God. People presume that the sons of God mentioned in Genesis we are discussing refers to fallen angels. Unless they think un fallen  angels mated with woman out of wedlock.

To the contrary, scripture separates fallen angels from the rest being referred to as the sons of God.

Job 2:1  Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Satan was not one of them, he came also as separate from them.

Let me simplify this. Did Ellen White write a paper on the Nephilim? That is all I want to know before I do a deep dive.

Quote from: Rella on Wed May 13, 2026 - 14:25:03Let me simplify this. Did Ellen White write a paper on the Nephilim? That is all I want to know before I do a deep dive.

Nephilim the renown giants of faith inner strength Christians sons of God like many obscure foreign words they can cause confusion