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Quote from: Amo on Mon Aug 03, 2026 - 05:40:22Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Deu 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: 14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou. 15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Both of the above commandments are truth. Neither one negates the other. The first commandment was spoken by God Himself to the entire nation of Israel, and written in tables of stone with the finger of God as well. Without the fundamental stated truth in the fourth commandment spoken by God, the commandment later spoken by Moses by way of remembrance, would fall short of the magnitude of God's greatness and mercy in the creation and redemption of this world. Which includes His right to proclaim Himself to be either one. Moses expounded upon the greater depth of meaning the seventh day sabbath represents, as other scriptures do as well.

Exodus 20 is not about creation, but rather the Creator. His ten commandments, spoken by His own mouth as moral standards of the most crucial nature, for fallen humanity. They are held up as the standard regarding the judgment of this world, right up to the last book and chapter of Holy Scripture. The fourth commandment also means exactly what it states, as God stated it. It is not broken down as a parable anywhere, but by you and or the others you have taken this extra biblical teaching from, I can only presume in order to excuse yourself from not keeping the commandment itself.

Nor is it true that the other commandments are not expounded upon within Holy Scripture as well. As to having deeper meaning than that simply stated in the commandment itself. God is spirit, as are his commandments, and all the truth He represents. All His words have deeper meaning and represent greater power than we can even now comprehend.

Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. 21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Who do you think the Creator of this world is, Who has commanded those who worship Him to keep His sabbath?

Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Mrk 2:28  Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Luk 6:5  And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Therefore, whose sabbath or commandment do professed Christians not observe or keep, having been extra biblically taught to do so? And who has originally taught them to disobey the commandment of God because doing so will make them more like God?

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. 24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. 27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

2 Thess 2:1 But relative to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah) and our gathering together to [meet] Him, we beg you, brethren, 2 Not to allow your minds to be quickly unsettled or disturbed or kept excited or alarmed, whether it be by some [pretended] revelation of [the] Spirit or by word or by letter [alleged to be] from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has [already] arrived and is here. 3 Let no one deceive or beguile you in any way, for that day will not come except the apostasy comes first [unless the predicted great falling away of those who have professed to be Christians has come], and the man of lawlessness (sin) is revealed, who is the son of doom (of perdition), 4 Who opposes and exalts himself so proudly and insolently against and over all that is called God or that is worshiped, [even to his actually] taking his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming that he himself is God.(AMPC)

Yes, God in Christ Jesus the Lord, is our Creator and Redeemer.

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Who can be forgiven of their sins, while they will not acknowledge their sins as sin? Who will ask forgiveness of a sin, which they think to be no sin? Who will keep a commandment of God, they have been taught should no longer be kept, which they have believed? Who believing such, would confess it as sin, or seek to keep said commandment?

1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

What did our Lord and savior teach and practice regarding the fourth and all the rest of the commandments of God? How shall those who do not seek His standard of righteousness in their lives, or confess their sins regarding them, hope to be saved?

1Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Again, who will confess a sin, or breaking of a commandment of God, who thinks such to be no sin? Are these not in danger?

The danger comes when men add to the Word of God without acknowledging that "without a parable spake he not unto them" (Matthew 13:34). Christ's parables do not remove the historical account; they reveal the unseen, spiritual gospel hidden within it.

The ceremonial laws themselves were shadows pointing to Christ. They were never an end in themselves but served as God's teaching pictures until their fulfillment.

Aaron's two sons provide a solemn warning. They added what God had not commanded by offering strange fire, and God judged them immediately. The lesson is that we must not add our own inventions to God's revealed worship. Human additions cannot improve what God has already spoken.

The Sabbath is another example. The word simply means rest. As born-again believers, we enter God's eternal rest whenever we hear His voice and refuse to harden our hearts.

Hebrews 4:3 (KJV)

"For we which have believed do enter into rest..."

The writer of Hebrews points beyond the shadow to its fulfillment in Christ. The Sabbath was never merely about one day; it testified beforehand of God's eternal rest in His Son.

Translation can also influence how we understand these passages.

Matthew 28:1 (KJV)

"In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week..."

Matthew 28:1 (Young's Literal Translation)

"And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre."

Likewise,

Luke 18:12 (YLT)

"I fast twice in the week..."

Here it is helpful to remember the languages of Scripture. The Hebrew word for week is שָׁבוּעַ (shābûaʿ), meaning a period of seven. It is used in places such as Genesis 29:27 and Daniel 9:24.

The New Testament, however, was written in Greek. In passages such as Matthew 28:1 and Luke 18:12, the inspired writers did not use a Greek equivalent corresponding to the Hebrew shābûaʿ. Instead, they used σάββατον (sabbaton), a word derived from the Hebrew shabbat, meaning Sabbath or rest.

Because Jewish time was commonly reckoned from one Sabbath to the next, many English translations render sabbaton as "week" in certain contexts. Yet the inspired text itself continues to use the word connected with Sabbath.

I believe this repeated use of sabbaton keeps the reader's attention on God's rest rather than on a mere calendar cycle. The emphasis is not simply counting seven days but entering the rest to which the Sabbath pointed.

The Pharisee in Luke 18 illustrates the danger of missing that spiritual meaning.

"I fast twice..."

His confidence rested in his religious performance. He measured righteousness by works rather than by God's mercy. The lesson is not about earning favor through repeated observances but about trusting God's provision.

The Reformation spoken of in Hebrews points believers away from confidence in ceremonial works and toward Christ Himself. We rest, not because our works save us, but because His finished work is sufficient.

The visible Sabbath pointed to an invisible and eternal reality. The shadow remains a beautiful testimony, but the substance belongs to Christ. As born-again believers, we enter that seventh-day rest whenever we hear His voice, believe His Word, and cease from trusting in our own works, resting instead in the finished work of our Lord.

QuoteThe danger comes when men add to the Word of God without acknowledging that "without a parable spake he not unto them" (Matthew 13:34). Christ's parables do not remove the historical account; they reveal the unseen, spiritual gospel hidden within it.

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: 35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

A fine example of personal interpretation. Taking one instance concerning a fulfillment of prophecy, and applying it everywhere. Or moreover, wherever it conveniently supports one's extra biblical notions. That one verse you quote, does not, and was not meant to convey the idea that everything Jesus spake or taught was meant to be a parable.

QuoteThe ceremonial laws themselves were shadows pointing to Christ. They were never an end in themselves but served as God's teaching pictures until their fulfillment.

We are not discussing ceremonial laws or law, rather the moral law of God contained in the Ten Commandments of God. Nevertheless, you are of course free to believe as you wish, as we have already been discussing this issue at -

https://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/index.php?topic=61496.910

QuoteAaron's two sons provide a solemn warning. They added what God had not commanded by offering strange fire, and God judged them immediately. The lesson is that we must not add our own inventions to God's revealed worship. Human additions cannot improve what God has already spoken.

I agree. So why are you adding the idea that Christ spoke only in parables all the time, to Holy scripture? And then applying that to the giving of God's Ten Commandments to Old covenant Israel as well? As though your private decision to do so, were some kind of unction from God or biblical principle which must be applied everywhere? Or moreover, when and where you see fit. Why are you doing exactly what your words above are warning everyone else not to do?

QuoteThe Sabbath is another example. The word simply means rest. As born-again believers, we enter God's eternal rest whenever we hear His voice and refuse to harden our hearts.

Yes, I would say that is true. But we are not discussing just the simple meaning of the word Sabbath. We are discussing the fourth commandment of God, as spoken by His own mouth, and written in tables of stone twice with His own finger. God Himself having added far more meaning and depth to a specific rest He has commanded, which is often addressed and expounded upon by Holy scripture itself. To the effect than none are bound by your particular private interpretations or applications concerning it and parables, apparently. Those who keep God's seventh day Sabbath acknowledge the truths proclaimed in that commandment, those who do not, apparently do not. God is the creator, sustainer, and redeemer of this world and everyone in it. And as such He has commanded that among other more in-depth spiritual applications to the sinners life, they are to acknowledge this truth every seventh day of the week. That they might not lose sight of this most crucial element of truth, and always properly understand exactly who God is to them, and who they are to Him. As we are all so very prone to the many troubles associated with forgetting this crucial element of every single life on this planet.

Much of what you say regarding the sabbath is true. Nor is it likely anything new, that most on these boards have not already heard, know,  and or understand. What your overall message is suggesting though is false. That the seventh day sabbath of God is just part of the ceremonial laws, and or shadows of the real. Therefore also done away with as the ceremonial laws of Israel, or simply suggestive of greater truths or realities as only shadows of the same. Such things as are meant to be fulfilled in a manner that basically replaces them. This is not true regarding the Ten Commandments of God though, as they are a standard which cannot be removed, which is exactly why our Lord had to die for us in the first place. Because they could not be changed or done away with, demanding the death of those who have broken them. They could not change then, and they most certainly will not change now, that the infinite cost of the life of God's only begotten Son has been given to those who could not and will not be saved from the condemnation of the law otherwise.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

No one establishes any laws by ignoring them, or refusing to keep them.

QuoteHebrews 4:3 (KJV)

"For we which have believed do enter into rest..."

The writer of Hebrews points beyond the shadow to its fulfillment in Christ. The Sabbath was never merely about one day; it testified beforehand of God's eternal rest in His Son.

There is no talk of shadows in Hebrews chapter four. You have added this concept to those scriptures. Why do you want to add your own private beliefs to the word of God concerning what Hebrews chapter four addresses? Why do you want to travel the road of Aaron's sons, by tampering with the Holy Word of God?

The subjects being addressed in Hebrews chapter four are present tense realities regarding the dangers God's own have faced all throughout their experience, which will continue to the end. That is, the exercise of a most crucial element of one's salvation, faith in God's word. As we all enter into God's rest, by faith in His word, which the Holy Scriptures are. Which the sabbath commandment is a sign of as well, concerning the most basic faith necessary to our salvation. That God is exactly who He claims to be in His fourth commandment, our Creator, who supernaturally created the heavens and earth in six days. Those who lack this basic fundamental foundation of biblical faith, are in danger of disregarding other fundamental truths tied directly to it as well. The implications of this fundamental lack of faith, distorting the gospel of Jesus Christ itself, seriously impeding the faith of many according to the improper understanding of Holy Scripture which such ultimately causes.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

In Hebrews chapter eleven, the faith chapter, the supernatural event of creation by the word of God is the first fundamental foundational faith set forth. This is the exact truth the fourth commandment of God upholds before all believers, not as a shadow of anything, but rather as the continuous basic fundamental biblical faith for all creation at all times. It is the foundational truth of resting in God, apart from whim there is nothing, including us. Everything Holy Scripture addresses, is in direct relation to this event and forward. Even those scriptures addressing time and or events before this world, are not separate from God's eternal purposes in the creation of this world, and the issues that will have been fully addressed and settled for all creation in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Why are you adding meaning to the testimony of Hebrews chapter four, which it is not addressing? As in shadows of things no longer relevant, being replaced by that which they only represented? Hebrews chapter four is not addressing such things.

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

The above opening verse of Hebrews four is present tense for the church. Addressing the age old problem of a lack of faith.

Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Again, the issue is not regarding some bygone shadow which has been replaced by being fulfilled, but one concerning the church itself as well.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Why would any of the above, or anything in Hebrews chapter four, ever be construed to imply that God's fourth commandment no longer needs to be observed because it was just a shadow? It does not. Such is suggested nowhere in the context of the chapter. To the contrary, one of the main points of the chapter is to point out the unlimited power of the word of God. Which is most awesomely demonstrated in the creation of the heavens and earth by that very word. Which is exactly what God's seventh day sabbath is all about, by establishing this fundamental truth by way of commemoration for all creation every seventh day, from the day it was established and evermore.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Psa 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. 7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: he layeth up the depth in storehouses. 8 Let all the earth fear the LORD: let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him. 9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

QuoteHere it is helpful to remember the languages of Scripture. The Hebrew word for week is שָׁבוּעַ (shābûaʿ), meaning a period of seven. It is used in places such as Genesis 29:27 and Daniel 9:24.

The New Testament, however, was written in Greek. In passages such as Matthew 28:1 and Luke 18:12, the inspired writers did not use a Greek equivalent corresponding to the Hebrew shābûaʿ. Instead, they used σάββατον (sabbaton), a word derived from the Hebrew shabbat, meaning Sabbath or rest.

Because Jewish time was commonly reckoned from one Sabbath to the next, many English translations render sabbaton as "week" in certain contexts. Yet the inspired text itself continues to use the word connected with Sabbath.

I believe this repeated use of sabbaton keeps the reader's attention on God's rest rather than on a mere calendar cycle. The emphasis is not simply counting seven days but entering the rest to which the Sabbath pointed.

The Pharisee in Luke 18 illustrates the danger of missing that spiritual meaning.

"I fast twice..."

His confidence rested in his religious performance. He measured righteousness by works rather than by God's mercy. The lesson is not about earning favor through repeated observances but about trusting God's provision.

The Reformation spoken of in Hebrews points believers away from confidence in ceremonial works and toward Christ Himself. We rest, not because our works save us, but because His finished work is sufficient.

The visible Sabbath pointed to an invisible and eternal reality. The shadow remains a beautiful testimony, but the substance belongs to Christ. As born-again believers, we enter that seventh-day rest whenever we hear His voice, believe His Word, and cease from trusting in our own works, resting instead in the finished work of our Lord.

You may of course believe whatever you wish. Nevertheless, Holy Scripture does not teach what you have above, anywhere at all. Is not bringing such spiritual teaching of private interpretation in to the New Covenant temple God, which is the church, a spiritual equivalent of the act of Aaron's sons. As they brought strange fire before the Lord, "which He had not commanded", are you not bringing strange teachings into the church which our Lord did neither command or teach. While ignoring what He did command and teach in both His fourth commandment, and the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ regarding the commandments of God.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Hopefully, many others will not be in danger of losing their fitness for heaven, by accepting this strange fire you and others have brought into the church. By not believing the fourth commandment of God should be kept any longer, or our Saviors teachings regarding all those who would teach others to break even the least of one of God's commandments.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Quote

CHAP. X.—BEWARE OF JUDAIZING.

Let us not, therefore, be insensible to His kindness. For were He to reward us according to our works, we should cease to be. For "if Thou, Lord, shalt mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?" Let us therefore prove ourselves worthy of that name which we have received. For whosoever is called by any other name besides this, he is not of God; for he has not received the prophecy which speaks thus concerning us: "The people shall be called by a new name, which the Lord shall name them, and shall be a holy people." This was first fulfilled in Syria; for "the disciples were called Christians at Antioch," when Paul and Peter were laying the foundations of the Church. Lay aside, therefore, the evil, the old, the corrupt leaven, and be ye changed into the new leaven of grace. Abide in Christ, that the stranger may not have dominion over you. It is absurd to speak of Jesus Christ with the tongue, and to cherish in the mind a Judaism which has now come to an end. For where there is Christianity there cannot be Judaism. For Christ is one, in whom every nation that believes, and every tongue that confesses, is gathered unto God. And those that were of a stony heart have become the children of Abraham, the friend of God; and in his seed all those have been blessed who were ordained to eternal life in Christ.

Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 63.

An inevitable separation concerning those Jews who chose and still do choose to remain outside of their Messiah the Lord Jesus Christ, the true vine of God's vineyard.

Jhn 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. 16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17 These things I command you, that ye love one another.

Unfortunately today, there are countless professed Christians, who do not do or even believe in many things which our Lord Jesus taught and therefore also commanded. Many even turned around and committed the persecutions our Lord warned His own would suffer from this world, in the rest of the above quoted chapter.  Proving thereby, that they were not authentic Christians. They persecuted the Jews, and eventually even those who professed Christ, who would not bow down to them, when they had committed spiritual adultery by obtaining the power of the state. Preferring coercion by the state or empire, than the convicting power of the Holy Spirit unto authentic conversion. Demonstrating the spirit of the evil, rather than the Spirit of God.

Jhn 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. 20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. 23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also. 24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. 25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning. Jhn 16:1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. 2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that who oever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. 3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

Such Christians throughout history, have not, and do not produce the fruits of God's true nation on earth. The following prediction concerning the Jewish nation is just as applicable to them, as it was to the Jews of our Lord Jesus Christ's days among us. Authentic Christianity loves their brethren, apostate "Christianity" persecutes them.

Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes ? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Nevertheless -

Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Contrary to Ignatius' anti Judaism proclaimed in this chapter, authentic Judaism was never evil, or corrupt leaven. The first "Christians"were in fact Jews, who accepted their Messiah as all Israel was intended to do, according to the oracles of God which He gave them. Those Jews who came to a proper understanding of God's leading in their past, recognized the changes their own oracles from God had predicted in and through our Lord Jesus Christ, the predicted Messiah of the Jews. It was the corruption of a great many Jews themselves, that lead to their rejection of their Messiah. Not corrupt teachings, laws, ceremonies, or prophecies given to them by God. All of which centered around and pointed to Christ Jesus our Lord, and the New Covenant He came to establish through the gospel of Jesus Christ. Which gospel was to the Jew first, and then the Gentile. If all of Israel had accepted their Messiah, things would have certainly turned out very differently.

Today, the title of Christian is professed by an ever widening scope of peoples with very different beliefs, practices, and life styles. More than just a few of which have no biblical foundation, and or even contradict the plain teachings of both the Old and New Testaments. Without question much of Christianity today, as well as throughout history, is and has been every bit as corrupt as a great many Jews were during their day. The New Testament itself predicts this condition of professed believers before our Lord returns. Authentic bible belief and believers transitioned smoothly from the Old to the New Covenant. As authentic bible believers will transition smoothly from this world to the next as well, when our Lord returns to being His own Home with Him. Unfortunately, most will professed Christians will not likely be among them, as most of Israel did not follow their Messiah when He came the first time either.

Quote

CHAP. XI.—I WRITE THESE THINGS TO WARN YOU.

These things , my beloved, not that I know any of you to be in such a state; but, as less than any of you, I desire to guard you beforehand, that ye fall not upon the hooks of vain doctrine, but that you may rather attain to a full assurance in Christ, who was begotten by the Father before all ages, but was afterwards born of the Virgin Mary without any intercourse with man. He also lived a holy life, and healed every kind of sickness and disease among the people, and wrought signs and wonders for the benefit of men; and to those who had fallen into the error of polytheism He made known the one and only true God, His Father, and underwent the passion, and endured the cross at the hands of the Christ-killing Jews, under Pontius Pilate the governor and Herod the king. He also died, and rose again, and ascended into the heavens to Him that sent Him, and is sat down at His right hand, and shall come at the end of the world, with His Father's glory, to judge the living and the dead, and to render to every one according to his works. He who knows these things with a full assurance, and believes them, is happy; even as ye are now the lovers of God and of Christ, in the full assurance of our hope, from which may no one of us ever be turned aside!

Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 64.

Any Christian that blames the Jews for our Lords death, rather than their own sins, does not properly understand the gospel of Jesus Christ. Nor did such a statement help at all, when deceived Christinas began to persecute the Jews. As though God had ever called them to do so, or to ever persecute anyone.

Quote from: Amo on Sat Aug 08, 2026 - 15:14:43Any Christian that blames the Jews for our Lords death, rather than their own sins, does not properly understand the gospel of Jesus Christ

I think I agree?  The main thing to understand about the "Jews", is that they ALWAYS consisted of a combination of true Jews and false Jews.

It remains to this day

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Tue Aug 11, 2026 - 01:21:28I think I agree?  The main thing to understand about the "Jews", is that they ALWAYS consisted of a combination of true Jews and false Jews.

It remains to this day

Amen. The same principle applies to the word Christian.

Scripture distinguishes between the outward name and the inward work of God.

Romans 2:28–29 (KJV)
"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly... But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit..."

In the same way, calling oneself a Christian outwardly does not make someone born again inwardly.

There has always been a mixture.

The outward name can be put on by mankind.

The new birth can only be worked by God.

Jesus did not say, Ye must take the name Christian.

He said:

John 3:7
"Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."

That is the difference between outward religion and inward faith.

A church membership cannot perform it.
A denomination cannot perform it.
A sacrament cannot perform it.
Calling ourselves Christian cannot perform it.

"Ye must be born again."

So yes, just as Scripture distinguishes the Jew outwardly from the Jew inwardly, we should distinguish the outward name Christian from the inward reality of being born again.

The visible assembly can be a mixture.

The household of born-again faith is known perfectly by God.

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
John 14:6

Your word is a lamp for my feet,
a light on my path.
Psalm 119:105

Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them."
John 14:23
Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.
James 1:22


And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."
Luke 22:19
 
While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."
Matthew 26:26

I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
John 6:51
For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
1 Corinthians 12:13

Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20


Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
Matthew 5:8

Blessed are those who keep his statutes
and seek him with all their heart.
Psalm 119:2

If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God.
1 John 4:15 
Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.
Hebrews 10:23
In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you."
Luke 22:20

If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:9

No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
1 John 2:23
Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine.
Exodus 19:5

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!
2 Corinthians 5:17 

Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."
John 3:3

Jesus answered, "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit."
John 3:5
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
1 Peter 1:23
 
For everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
1 John 5:4

And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1 John 5:11
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one.
John 10:28-30
 
For those who find me find life
and receive favor from the Lord.
Proverbs 8:35
So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.
2 Corinthians 4:18

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
John 17:3

Who is he, this King of glory?
The Lord Almighty—
he is the King of glory.
Psalm 24:10

And every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:11

    

Quote

THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE TRALLIANS

CHAP. II.—BE SUBJECT TO THE BISHOP, ETC.

Be ye subject to the bishop as to the Lord, for "he watches for your souls, as one that shall give account to God." Wherefore also, ye appear to me to live not after the manner of men, but according to Jesus Christ, who died for us, in order that, by believing in His death, ye may by baptism be made partakers of His resurrection. It is therefore necessary, whatsoever things ye do, to do nothing without the bishop. And be ye subject also to the presbytery, as to the apostles of Jesus Christ, who is our hope, in whom, if we live, we shall be found in Him. It behoves you also, in every way, to please the deacons, who are [ministers] of the mysteries of Christ Jesus; for they are not ministers of meat and drink, but servants of the Church of God. They are bound, therefore, to avoid all grounds of accusation [against them], as they would a burning fire. Let them, then, prove themselves to be such.

Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 67.

Nothing new here. The bishops are to be looked upon as God.

Quote

CHAP. III.—HONOUR THE DEACONS, ETC.

And do ye reverence them as Christ Jesus, of whose place they are the keepers, even as the bishop is the representative of the Father of all things, and the presbyters are the sanhedrim of God, and assembly of the apostles of Christ. Apart from these there is no elect Church, no congregation of holy ones, no assembly of saints. I am persuaded that ye also are of this opinion. For I have received the manifestation of your love, and still have it with me, in your bishop, whose very appearance is highly instructive, and his meekness of itself a power; whom I imagine even the ungodly must reverence. Loving you as I do, I avoid writing in any severer strain to you, that I may not seem harsh to any, or wanting [in tenderness]. I am indeed bound for the sake of Christ, but I am not yet worthy of Christ. But when I am perfected, perhaps I shall then become so. I do not issue orders like an apostle.

Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 67.

Unbelievable. Reverence mere sinners such as ourselves, as though they were Jesus Christ. The only man that was God Himself. And the bishop even more so of course, as God the Father. Apart from whom there is no church apparently. Highjacking the place and authority of God Himself through mere men who are supposed to be serving God and the church, not Lording themselves over it. Not that proper respect for such persons is not due, by those who themselves elected such individuals to serve the Church of Christ, by way of Godly example of living and proper authority as selected for such by the members of the church. Why would such authentic leaders of the church seek to become literally antichrist, by teaching that they should be looked upon as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Himself, and or our Father in heaven. Blasphemy.

Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. 23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: 24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. 26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. 28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

No. Neither Popes, nor bishops, nor clergy, nor deacons should  be looked upon as God the Son or God the Father.  Nor do any of them stand in either of Their places. Which would of course amount to blasphemy by anyone professing that such was so. Nor can any of them save anyone to the uttermost, living ever to make intercession for us. Nor did any of them die for our salvation as our Lord did, once and for all. Nor are any of them separate from the rest of us sinners, being as completely dependent upon His salvation as all the rest of us. 

Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Nor are two or three gathered in Christ's name, dependent upon them to constitute members of the body and elect church. Among whom our Lord Jesus Christ dwells in the midst of, as our Lord taught in the above verses. Lest manifesting the spirit of antichrist, they consider their own presence as or more necessary than the presence of Christ Jesus our Lord to such effect.

Act 14:8 And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked: 9 The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed, 10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked. 11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. 12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. 13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. 14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, 15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: 16 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways. 17 Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness. 18 And with these sayings scarce restrained they the people, that they had not done sacrifice unto them.

The Apostle Paul and Barnabas rent their clothes, denouncing that the people might consider them as gods let alone the God. Immediately protesting and identifying themselves as men of like passions with the rest those who might mistakingly consider them as such. Deploring the thought that some might look upon them in such a manner. Yet Ignatius repeatedly calls upon all Christians to look upon him and all bishops as though they were God Himself. Whether the Father or the Son. And the presbyter or deacons as the Lord Jesus Christ as well. Clearly demonstrating the beginnings of the spirit of antichrist entering the church.

Was reading about
Saint Ignatius of Antioch.
So who was Saint Ignatius?
Saint Ignatius was a Spanish soldier & his leg was shattered by a cannonball in 1521.
After he became confined to bed, he read books about Our Lord Christ & other Saints.

And this changed him completely & he decided to end his career as a military soldier,
& decided to live a life devoted to God.
And he wrote a series of prayers.
Around 107-110 A.D., an Emperor demanded that Christians choose either denouncing the Christian faith or face death.
Saint Ignatius refused to deny Jesus Christ & accepted death instead, as he longed for martyrdom.

And this lead to his arrest & a death sentence.
During his journey to Rome he wrote letters to the Churches,
begging Christians not to try to save him or prevent or interfere with his ex*cution.


Although Saint Ignatius died as a martyr refusing to deny the Christian faith,
then why did he teach the Christians to look upon the Bishop as a representative of Christ Jesus?
In earlier times,
Christians faced ideas that divided them.
So in order to stop the further division he taught the Christians to see the Bishop as a representative of Christ.

He viewed obedience to the Bishop as a way to keep the devout against the fake teachers, who only led Christians away from the Christian faith.
For Saint Ignatius, collecting around the Bishop was like mirroring the unity of an invisible Church in Heaven,
making the presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ

clearly seen in the local community of Christians.

This is what I read about him & Saint Ignatius was a good human being,
who stood up for the Christian faith even giving up his life for it.
From what was given, it seemed as if Saint Ignatius simply asked the Christians to look upon the Bishop

 as a representative for Christ to protect the Christians from getting divided, maintaining the unity of the Church,
& to stand against heresies, during those difficult times when  Christianity & Christians were being persecuted.

Christ was, is & will always remain the Head of every Church & every denomination,
Amen.
May the Holy Spirit bear witness to this story about a good man as Saint Ignatius of Antioch,
Amen.

And there is a huge difference between Saint Ignatius of Antioch & the Anti-christ.
Because Saint Ignatius gave up his life readily refusing to deny the Christian faith.
Whereas the antichrist will take people away from Christ.
And Christ will overthrow all three ...Satan, the false teacher, & the antichrist into the abyss, as divine judgement.

To Christ be the Glory forever,
Amen.

2 Thessalonians 2:8
New International Version
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

Revelation 19:19-20
New International Version
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false teacher who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Revelation 13
King James Version
13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Quote from: pppp on Sat Aug 15, 2026 - 12:17:04Was reading about
Saint Ignatius of Antioch.
So who was Saint Ignatius?
Saint Ignatius was a Spanish soldier & his leg was shattered by a cannonball in 1521.
After he became confined to bed, he read books about Our Lord Christ & other Saints.

And this changed him completely & he decided to end his career as a military soldier,
& decided to live a life devoted to God.
And he wrote a series of prayers.
Around 107-110 A.D., an Emperor demanded that Christians choose either denouncing the Christian faith or face death.
Saint Ignatius refused to deny Jesus Christ & accepted death instead, as he longed for martyrdom.

And this lead to his arrest & a death sentence.
During his journey to Rome he wrote letters to the Churches,
begging Christians not to try to save him or prevent or interfere with his ex*cution.


Although Saint Ignatius died as a martyr refusing to deny the Christian faith,
then why did he teach the Christians to look upon the Bishop as a representative of Christ Jesus?
In earlier times,
Christians faced ideas that divided them.
So in order to stop the further division he taught the Christians to see the Bishop as a representative of Christ.

He viewed obedience to the Bishop as a way to keep the devout against the fake teachers, who only led Christians away from the Christian faith.
For Saint Ignatius, collecting around the Bishop was like mirroring the unity of an invisible Church in Heaven,
making the presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ

clearly seen in the local community of Christians.

This is what I read about him & Saint Ignatius was a good human being,
who stood up for the Christian faith even giving up his life for it.
From what was given, it seemed as if Saint Ignatius simply asked the Christians to look upon the Bishop

 as a representative for Christ to protect the Christians from getting divided, maintaining the unity of the Church,
& to stand against heresies, during those difficult times when  Christianity & Christians were being persecuted.

Christ was, is & will always remain the Head of every Church & every denomination,
Amen.
May the Holy Spirit bear witness to this story about a good man as Saint Ignatius of Antioch,
Amen.

I believe you are confusing Ignatius of Antioch, with Ignatius Loyola, founder of the Roman Catholic and infamous Jesuit institution. Which became so diabolical at times throughout history, that more than just a few Catholic kings and countries banned them, and even a Pope at one time at least. He was a devout soldier of Mary.

Believe as you wish of course. Nevertheless, as a bishop, Ignatius repeatedly called upon the Church to view bishops and other clergy as though they were God Himself and or Jesus Christ. How could one better serve the purposes of the man of sin, who would set himself up in the temple of God, as though he were God. These things which the apostle Paul predicted for the New Covenant church.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I'm sorry, but what more could a professed Christian do to help effect the above prophecy, but to declare that they themselves and others in their position should be looked upon as though they were God? Or our Lord Jesus Christ? What higher claim could ones seeking followers after themselves as Paul prophesied as well, make? None. For there is no other claim of any higher authority upon earth, than to be viewed as God the Father or Son.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

I am not judging the motives or eternal destination of Ignatius himself, God will take care of that concerning us all. I am judging his written testimonies in relation to the teachings of the Holy Scriptures. Addressing that which I believe most obviously begins to deviate from them. As though they teach anywhere at any time, that sinners such as we all are, should be looked upon and or obeyed as though they were God. There is only one time when sinners should be looked upon as the messengers of God, as when they are sharing the biblical truths of God, but never should they be looked upon as God Himself. Believe as you wish. I will not go there.

Quote from: pppp on Sat Aug 15, 2026 - 13:41:47And there is a huge difference between Saint Ignatius of Antioch & the Anti-christ.
Because Saint Ignatius gave up his life readily refusing to deny the Christian faith.
Whereas the antichrist will take people away from Christ.
And Christ will overthrow all three ...Satan, the false teacher, & the antichrist into the abyss, as divine judgement.

To Christ be the Glory forever,
Amen.

2 Thessalonians 2:8
New International Version
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

Revelation 19:19-20
New International Version
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false teacher who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Any person who places themsleves in the place of God before others, is antichrist. No one will ever be converted and changed into the image of God, which is our salvation, by subjecting themselves to any other sinful human being declaring themselves to be in the place of God. By directing attention away from God and to themselves, they cut humanity off from God and our Lord Jesus Christ, who alone can transform and or save anyone. Destroying the liberty of all in Christ Jesus our Lord.

This is in fact the exact history of apostate "Christianity", in the persecution of all who would not bow before the dictates of certain Christian professing individuals organizations and or denominations. To the tune of countless millions be persecuted and murdered throughout history in the name of God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ. Because professed Christians placed themsleves in the position of God, therefore also then bringing upon others what they considered to be the proper judgements of God in doing so. Once again, an exact fulfillment of Paul's afore mentioned prophecy and more than just a few others of Holy Scripture.

Jhn 16:1 These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. 2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. 3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

History is filled with professed Christians fulfilling the above prophecy. Christians who thought they stood in the place of God, and carried out judgement upon others who would not bow to their teachings or dogmas, in many various ways up to and including torturous death. These are the very real dangers of deviating even slightly it seems, from the teachings of God's word. Which I am convinced Ignatius did, concerning this issue, which had terrible and very long lasting effects. Nevertheless, and as always, believe as you wish. Enjoy your own liberty in Christ Jesus, which I would not dare to take away from you. Only, let us not use our liberty as an excuse for establishing the desires of the flesh.

Gal 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.


Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: 5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

The gospel of Jesus Christ has nothing at all to do with the exaltation of sinners over and above other sinners. Rather the exaltation of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ over all, unto our transformation back into the image of God with which we were created, not ever the place, authority, or privileges of God. Such are the desires of the evil one, who sought and seeks to be God, without being like God. The true spirit of antichrist as well. Which all professed "Christians" who have and will persecute others in the name of Christ, manifest. 

Quote from: pppp on Sat Aug 15, 2026 - 13:43:44Revelation 13
King James Version
13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Yes, forced worship is not of God but rather the evil one. And what has apostate "Christianity" done all throughout its history? But force its vision of the same upon all, with many penalties including death. And why did so many professed Christians support and or allow for such? Was it not because they thought those who commanded such, were to be looked upon as God? Apparently so.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Mat 20:25 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. 26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; 27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: 28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Yes, Saint Ignatius of Antioch was different from Saint Ignatius of Loyola.
I'm sorry for the confusion,
Actually, the article on the internet confused both of them.
I'll just point the diffrences between them.

Saint Ignatius of Antioch (died 108 AD), served as the third Bishop of Antioch.
And was martyred for refusing to deny the Christian faith.

Saint Ignatius of Loyola (1491–1556) , was a soldier & a nobleman & later became a priest.

When we talk of Saints,
we generally know about their integrity towards Christ,
their martyrdom,
standing up for the faith & the people,
& the miraculous events that have taken place, as well,
which cannot be imitated by any Satanic force in the world.

And the devotion of Saints, to Christ was unparalleled,
& that is why they brought people towards Christ,
& gave up their lives instead of saving it.
And by no means were they even a lesser form of the antichrist.
Because the main purpose of the antichrist's was to move people away from Christ & make them worship the devil.

And in many era's, there were people under the influence of the satanic forces,
whose main purpose was simply to take Christians away from the Christian faith.

Like it was given in the story of Saint Ignatius of Antioch, when others were trying to divide the Christians.
 Saint Ignatius,  told people that the Bishop represented Christ,
 & he was actually trying to save the faith from declining & trying to keep the people united.
That was maybe the demand of that era.

God knows everything about His chosen Prophets & Saints,
Amen.

When we look upon the Prophets & Saints,
just look at them as workers of Christ,
look at the fruit they spread,
fruit of martyrdom, integrity, they were faithful to Christ,
keeper of the faith & standing up for the persecuted Christians.

You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.
John 15:16

This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
John 15:8

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23

I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.
John 15:1-2

So is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
Isaiah 55:11


    

Amo, thank you for your replies.
I've read what you've written & understood what's your point of view.
And its a nice thing to discuss any issues so that they can be cleared,
& in fact what the aim should be is to unite our Christian people in the world,
with Christ as the Head of the Church & be Head & leader in the Christian journey.
I've understood what you have tried to explain,
& I'll try my best to give an answer that is going to explain what's really happening in these times & even in earlier era's.
Thank you for reading.


 And this does not include any Saints or any denomination or particular organizations.
I'm just going to write about Satan & his evil beings who are trying hard to spread darkness.

There were & may be, & are still many, dark beings of Satan,
who are actively trying to create a division between Christians & Christ.
And the worst part is that they are using the Holy Scripture to instigate Christians against Christ,
& trying very hard to distort Scripture altogether, with logic that's actually baseless,
& simply, the goal is to make people  worship the antichrist.
On one hand the satanic forces are using fictitious characters to create divisions amongst Christians,

on the other hand they are using other logical theories to create divisions, & these theories are completely baseless.
but sadly gullible Christians cannot see their manipulative games.
But all those who are tightly bound to Christ & His Word, can see what these satanic forces are doing.
And even when in the past era's, when Saintly people who were genuinely righteous, started something to unite Christians,
Satan's dark forces tried their best to ruin a good thing.

From what is coming out from various articles, etc.,  on the internet,
it is becoming clear that on purpose a split is being caused
& Satan is trying his best to create a rift between various denominations, amongst Christians themselves & also between Christians & Jews.
But truly, God can see through their manipulative, evil, tricky & shady games,
& He is far ahead of Satan's dark schemes,
& its His power & The Word that will stand in the end,
Amen.

And God Himself must be wishing that His believers see to what Satan is busy doing
& God will help the remaining faithful to lead the way with light.
And His light shall prevail, Amen.
What we all need to do, is to remain faithful to Our Blessed Saviour Christ & The Word of God,
& this unity will help,
Let us all bow down before our Maker, God,
To Christ be the Glory forever & ever,
Amen.



Because of the Lord's great love we are not consumed,
for his compassions never fail.
They are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness.
Lamentations 3:22-23   

But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen you and protect you from the evil one.
2 Thessalonians 3:3

He will cover you with his feathers,
and under his wings you will find refuge;
his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.
Psalm 91:4

For he guards the course of the just
and protects the way of his faithful ones.
Proverbs 2:8

Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.
Hebrews 10:23

Not to us, Lord, not to us
but to your name be the glory,
because of your love and faithfulness.
Psalm 115:1
    

Quote from: pppp on Sun Aug 16, 2026 - 14:44:54Amo, thank you for your replies.
I've read what you've written & understood what's your point of view.
And its a nice thing to discuss any issues so that they can be cleared,
& in fact what the aim should be is to unite our Christian people in the world,
with Christ as the Head of the Church & be Head & leader in the Christian journey.
I've understood what you have tried to explain,
& I'll try my best to give an answer that is going to explain what's really happening in these times & even in earlier era's.
Thank you for reading.


 And this does not include any Saints or any denomination or particular organizations.
I'm just going to write about Satan & his evil beings who are trying hard to spread darkness.

There were & may be, & are still many, dark beings of Satan,
who are actively trying to create a division between Christians & Christ.
And the worst part is that they are using the Holy Scripture to instigate Christians against Christ,
& trying very hard to distort Scripture altogether, with logic that's actually baseless,
& simply, the goal is to make people  worship the antichrist.
On one hand the satanic forces are using fictitious characters to create divisions amongst Christians,

on the other hand they are using other logical theories to create divisions, & these theories are completely baseless.
but sadly gullible Christians cannot see their manipulative games.
But all those who are tightly bound to Christ & His Word, can see what these satanic forces are doing.
And even when in the past era's, when Saintly people who were genuinely righteous, started something to unite Christians,
Satan's dark forces tried their best to ruin a good thing.

From what is coming out from various articles, etc.,  on the internet,
it is becoming clear that on purpose a split is being caused
& Satan is trying his best to create a rift between various denominations, amongst Christians themselves & also between Christians & Jews.
But truly, God can see through their manipulative, evil, tricky & shady games,
& He is far ahead of Satan's dark schemes,
& its His power & The Word that will stand in the end,
Amen.

And God Himself must be wishing that His believers see to what Satan is busy doing
& God will help the remaining faithful to lead the way with light.
And His light shall prevail, Amen.
What we all need to do, is to remain faithful to Our Blessed Saviour Christ & The Word of God,
& this unity will help,
Let us all bow down before our Maker, God,
To Christ be the Glory forever & ever,
Amen.



Because of the Lord's great love we are not consumed,
for his compassions never fail.
They are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness.
Lamentations 3:22-23   

But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen you and protect you from the evil one.
2 Thessalonians 3:3

He will cover you with his feathers,
and under his wings you will find refuge;
his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.
Psalm 91:4

For he guards the course of the just
and protects the way of his faithful ones.
Proverbs 2:8

Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.
Hebrews 10:23

Not to us, Lord, not to us
but to your name be the glory,
because of your love and faithfulness.
Psalm 115:1
    

Amen.

The key is born again FAITH, and the work of faith Christ's labor of love is two-fold from the beginning:

1. "LET THERE BE" — God speaks.
2. "AND IT WAS SO... GOOD" — God alone performs what He has spoken.

That is the law of faith. God supplies both the living Word to be heard and the power by which His promised good result is accomplished.

Man does not create faith by his own wisdom, ceremonies, signs, or works.

That helps us understand:

"I will hide my face from them... for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is NO FAITH." — Deuteronomy 32:20

Notice the relationship between HID and NO FAITH.

Now come forward to Christ teaching His apostles in Luke 9:

"Let these sayings sink down into your ears." — Luke 9:44

Yet immediately Scripture tells us:

"But they understood not this saying, and it was HID from them, that they perceived it not." — Luke 9:45

They possessed the spoken words but did not yet understand what was hidden in them.

Mark gives the same testimony:

"But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him." — Mark 9:32

Their lack of understanding then showed itself in their actions.

They disputed over who should be greatest.

John wanted to forbid another because "he followeth not with us."

James and John wanted to call fire down from heaven upon the Samaritans.

Finally Christ rebuked them:

"Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of." — Luke 9:55

They were hearing Christ's words, but they were still learning how the temporal things spoken in parables revealed the unseen spiritual things of the Gospel.

That is why Christ said concerning the parables:

"Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables." — Mark 4:11

And again:

"Without a parable spake he not unto them." — Mark 4:34

The spiritual understanding must therefore come from God. Scripture gives us the method:

"Comparing spiritual things with spiritual." — 1 Corinthians 2:13

And Hebrews tells us what must accompany the hearing:

"The word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with FAITH in them that heard it." — Hebrews 4:2

There again is the two-fold work:

God speaks — "LET THERE BE."
Faith receives what God has spoken.
God performs the work — "AND IT WAS SO... GOOD."

That is REST.

We cease trying to manufacture spiritual understanding through the wisdom and works of dying mankind and rest in God's finished work:

"For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his." — Hebrews 4:10

Then Christ's question becomes very serious:

"Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find FAITH on the earth?" — Luke 18:8

Will He find the faith that hears the living Word and rests in God's work, or mankind looking only at the outward temporal shadow while missing the invisible Gospel reality?

That is why rightly dividing the parables matters.

"LET THERE BE" — the living Word comes from God.
"IT WAS SO... GOOD" — the power and accomplishment belong to God.

The parable is the temporal shadow.
Faith sees the unseen Gospel reality.
And the born-again believer rests in the finished work of God.

That is all fine and well. Nevertheless, "to forsake the truth, for the sake of unity, can only lead to apostasy".

No one will be lost for not agreeing with this or that denomination, doctrine, or dogma. All will be lost by forsaking the truth. Therefore does the evil one seek to inspire professed Christians to forsake, ignore, or reject biblical truth. A form of unity built upon ignoring biblical truths which might cause some division among professed followers, is just the kind of false unity the evil one desires. Leaving many professed Christinas ignoring, if not rejecting bible truth. Which is most dangerous to the soul.

Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jhn 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jhn 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Jhn 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The most dangerous deceptions of the evil one, have and will continue to come from within professed Christianity. The devil is not concerned with deceiving non believers, they are already deceived by rejecting the truth. His problem, his main work, is to deceive God's professed followers into serving him by rejecting the truths of God's word, while thinking they are saved and actually serving God. To the point as our own Lord taught concerning the future, that those who will persecute and kill Christ's very own, will believe they are actually serving God. Which has already happened many times in the past. As chronicled in the Old Testament concerning the continuous apostasies of the Jews, predicted concerning Christianity by Christ Jesus and His apostles, and born out throughout New Covenant history. The anitchrist pretends to stand in the place of Jesus Christ, not the devil or some pagan God. It will be apostate Christianity that enforces the final mark of the final beast of biblical prophecy, not some pagan professing religion. Or else the evil could not deceive professed Christians, which is his main goal, as all others are already deceived. The present movements toward the unity of all professed Christians, also involves the unity of all the world, which authentic Christianity cannot embrace without embracing apostasy.

Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. 37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

The enforced worship of the beast of the end days, will simply be a command to disobey authentic worship of God according the truths of His word. To replace a commandment of God the Father and Son, with a commandment of its own. One that many professed Christians would likely have no problem keeping, while ignoring the truth of God's word concerning an authentic commandment of God.

Easy peasy. Choose either the command of God, or the command of the beast. The Lord will make this issue as simple as possible before He returns, that all the world may be decided in one generation, and then the end shall come. By such, the unification of the world, and the unification of authentic Christianity may be completed. The harvests of the world having come to complete fruition, may be reaped. Come Lord Jesus.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. 8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. 14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. 17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. 

Ok, Amo, thanks for reading & your reply.
I've read what you've written & understood your point of view & exactly what you mean.
I'll break my reply into a few parts.
I've understood what you've written about the anti -christ & how he divides & will divide the Christians & take them away from the Christian faith.
I think this a good discussion because ultimately I think it can clear many issues & in fact can bring Christians closer to the Christian faith,
removing any doubts or unresolved issues.

The first part of my reply is about Satan trying his level best to spread darkness among the Christian community in the world.
 And this does not include any Saints or any denomination or particular organizations.

I have been reading about how Christians are already being divided & taken away from the faith,
by Satan in a number of ways.
And Satan uses not only persecution but also logic which is actually baseless to take people away from the faith
& this is becoming a serious issue.
 
Let's start with what is seen & what is not,
then comes free thinking, logic & science.
See, these things are okay in themselves but when used & misinterpreted,
they lead even an honest believer away from God.
Even extreme viewpoints is taking away belivers from Christ.
 
The problem is that the mortal conscious mind is full of fear, fickle, untrustworthy
& is limited.
Even the most intelligent people's knowledge cannot be compared to the vast wisdom of God.
And though God has given wisdom, knowledge & good sense to His believers,
yet they fail to see through the evil games of Satan.

And they look at the Christian faith through the glasses of Satan who is blinding them with logic, free thinking, & what is seen.
But sadly what they are not realizing is that logic & free thinking is okay in itself but should not be allowed to create a wedge betwwen themselves & God.

The first thing is on what is seen & what is unseen.
Sadly people believe in things which are seen & this includes baseless logical theories,
but they get so impressed by this rubbish,
that they begin to move away from the Christian faith.
Now, on what is seen has no base. Why? Because can these baseless theories give life after death like Christ can? NO, these baseless theories can't.
Can miracles take place with the help of these baseless theories ?NO.
Can supernatural wonders take place with the help of these baseless theories ?NO.

I've been reading on how gullible Christians who may not even leave the faith get impressed with such absolute rubbish.
And they further try to impress others, who themselves don't know the truth.
God had said that the truth shall set belivers free.
And the truth is that Christ is the Son of the Living God.
And for us believers, Christ is the only God & Son of God.
And that will hold. Amen.

Then people are not realizing that what is seen can also come from Satan
& also from God.
Just like Elijah prayed & called down fire from Heaven.
1 Kings 18:38-39 (NIV):"Then the fire of the LORD fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench. When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, 'The LORD—he is God! The LORD—he is God!'"

The source was God Himself & so what was seen was reliable & trustworthy.

Even the antichrist will get fire from the skies, but that will be just a trick to deceive people & many will be deceived.

 — Revelation 13:13 (NKJV)

So, the source of what is seen should be clearly understood.


Next is, on what is unseen.
Can kindness be seen?
Can compassion be seen?
Can sacred love be seen?
NO.
These things cannot be seen, yet they exist.
Kind, compassion & the sacred love of God can be felt by good deeds.
Similarly God cannot be seen by many, but that does not mean that He does not exist.
There have been numerous happenings which have taken place, like miraculous healings, supernatural wonders, good winning over evil, the coming back of people from the dead & fate itself being changed by God. These clearly show that there is higher force which controls all things & this is the force of Our God Almighty.

2 Kings 20
New King James Version
Hezekiah's Life Extended
20 In those days Hezekiah was sick and near death. And Isaiah the prophet, the son of Amoz, went to him and said to him, "Thus says the Lord: 'Set your house in order, for you shall die, and not live.'
2 Then he turned his face toward the wall, and prayed to the Lord, saying, 3 "Remember now, O Lord, I pray, how I have walked before You in truth and with a loyal heart, and have done what was good in Your sight." And Hezekiah wept bitterly.

4 And it happened, before Isaiah had gone out into the middle court, that the word of the Lord came to him, saying, 5 "Return and tell Hezekiah the leader of My people, 'Thus says the Lord, the God of David your father: "I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; surely I will heal you. On the third day you shall go up to the house of the Lord. 6 And I will add to your days fifteen years. I will deliver you and this city from the hand of the king of Assyria; and I will defend this city for My own sake, and for the sake of My servant David." ' "

John 11:43–44
"When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, 'Lazarus, come out!' The dead man came out, his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen, and a cloth around his face. Jesus said to them, 'Take off the grave clothes and let him go.'"

 Jesus told him, "Stand up, pick up your mat, and walk!" Instantly the man was healed. He rolled up his mat and began walking.

1 John 5:4: "For everyone has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith."
2 Kings 6:8-22
16 So he answered, "Do not fear, for those who are with us are more than those who are with them." 17 And Elisha prayed, and said, "Lord, I pray, open his eyes that he may see." Then the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha. 18 So when the Syrians came down to him, Elisha prayed to the Lord, and said, "Strike this people, I pray, with judgement." And He struck them with judgement according to the word of Elisha.

From these Biblical passages, it is clearly seen how
even what is unseen exists & so God exists,
even if many can't see Him.
Yet, though many may not have seen Him,
yet God sent His one & only Chosen Son Christ,
through which we can see God Almighty.



John 14:9
Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you all this time and you do not know Me yet? Whoever has seen Me, has seen the Father.

So actually what was unseen has been seen through the Son of God.
So actually God exists has been seen through Blessed Christ.

Then comes Science.
Science is a good subject,
but do people ever realize a simple fact ...that God created knowledge & wisdom & it was not the other way round.
There was a time when scientists were trying to find the missing link between man & monkey?
And later this theory was totally discarded.
Agan, dinos were extinct about 66 million years ago,
yet just about 200 years ago, many ancient lake & sea reptiles have been seen.
This clearly shows again that God is far greater than any law or theory made by humans.
But sadly again,
many believe more in Science than in the faith!!!


Then extreme viewpoints to fit Satan's agenda also take away believers from the Christian faith.
2 Timothy 4:3-4
"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."

Matthew 7:15"Beware of false teachers, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves."

2 Corinthians 11:13-15
"For such men are false teachers, deceitful workers, masquerading as teachers of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness."


And  what is required is to use good sense & know that Our God who is the Living God,
is a God of justice, goodness, mercy & light.
And binding ourselves with Christ is the way to light & eternal life.
Amen.
Romans 16:17-18
"I urge you, believers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them."



And yes, its true that Satan uses Scriture itself to deceive believers but then,
he can't go far with his evil shady tricks because sooner or later,
God's faithful will realize & may have realized Satan's deception.
& no matter how hard Satan tries to mislead God's people,
he will never win against God,
Amen.
The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
John 1:5
For the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth.
Ephesians 5:9
When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
John 8:12
The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
John 1:5
The Lord bless you and keep you;
the Lord make his face shine on you
and be gracious to you;
the Lord turn his face toward you
and give you peace.
Numbers 6:24-26
Amen.

In this next part,
from whatever I've read,
I'll try my best to explain why Saints spread good fruit.
And why Satan spread darkness.
See, if people read Revelation, it is clear that he wants the world to worship him

& when he was in Heaven & even after being thrown out from there,
his motive still remains the same.
And though he uses both persecution & logic which may include even using Scripture to make people worship him,
yet his deeds are clearly seen.

Just compare the fruit spread by the Saints & the mischief Satan creates.
On one hand, the Saints took believers closer to God,
spread compassion & kindness,
were even martyred,
spoke up for the persecuted,

performed miracles & supernatural happenings took place because of them,
on the other hand Satan uses Scripture itself, baseless logic & tricks to make people believe in him.
And this is a huge difference.

If you read about the miracles performed by the Saints,
you'll see & people will realize that their work brought people closer to God & even unbelievers turned towards God & became a part of the Christian faith.
That is why Christ Himself allows these miracles to take place.
God Himself lets Saints perform physical healings & miracles because this leads people closer to God.

John 14:12
Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Whereas whatever fake tricks Satan will perform or whatever false teachings he spreads,
even though he may imitate righteousness,
has always lead & will lead people away from Christ.

That's the huge difference between Saints & Satan.
Judge them by their work.
Look at the miracle regarding Apostle Saint John.
During the reign of an emperor, authorities arrested Saint John for preaching about the Christian faith.
They placed him in a basin of boiling oil,
but he was unharmed & even felt refreshed.
When people saw this miraculous event, they began to follow God & became Christians.
Upon seeing this miraculous event,
the Emperor banished him to an island where he experienced sacred visions & wrote the Revelation in the Bible.

And there have been many such miraculous events leading people towards the faith & making the faith stronger of the already existing believers.

For everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
1 John 5:4

For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."
Romans 1:17

garee, hi, thank you for your reply,
I think you are right,
faith is important for a believer of Christianity,
firstly faith is believing in the unseen,
that is God.

God, though unseen exists,
& Christ being sent by Father God,
is proof in itself that God exists
& that all the believers should continue to trust God & in His Word.
But definitely through miracles & supernatural events,
faith not only increases but adds more believers to our faith.

What is essential for all the believers is that despite the distractions created by Satan,
the believers should steadfastly hold on to the Christian faith,
because this faith in the Word of God is essential,
& The Word of God in the Holy Bible, is no ordinary work,
instead it is the true light of God leading to eternal life,
it is the work of the Living God,

& history has shown time & again that whoever believes in the Christian faith is a winner,
that is the promise of our Holy Father to His people,
Amen.

Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:8-9

For we live by faith, not by sight.
2 Corinthians 5:7

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
Hebrews 11:6
Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty."
John 6:35
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?"
John 11:25-26

Then Jesus said, "Did I not tell you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?"
John 11:40
I have chosen the way of faithfulness;
I have set my heart on your laws.
Psalm 119:30

I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love.
Ephesians 3:16-17

Amo, continuing my post,
the next part of how Satan spreads darkness
& divides God's people.
Another way is to create a rift between the Jews & the Christians.
And the reason is because he does not want the Christians to help the Jews.
And the reason for that is that if no one will help them,
then they will lose.

And that is exactly the game of Satan,
because the Jews were chosen by God for a divine purpose.
Because Christ first came into the world through the Jews & the second time too Christ will come through the Jews & then they will accept Christ as the Messiah.

And the return of Christ means the end of Satan's reign of persecution, tears, pain & suffering.
So he purposely tries to create a rift between the Jews & Christians.
Another reason is that through the Jews God sends blessings & so Satan wants to stop this.
And Satan's mischief doesn't end here,

he even tries to create distractions & division between Christians themselves, in order to weaken Christianity.
But Satan in his arrogance, conceit & ignorance cannot envisage,
that his plans are a complete failure & that he can't & will never succeed in winning against the supreme hand of God,
Amen.
I am the Lord, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me?
Jeremiah 32:27

That is why the Christians in the world, should hold fast to the Word of God as this will ultimately bring light & send the darkness of Satan & Satan himself to the abyss.


He who forms the mountains,
who creates the wind,
and who reveals his thoughts to mankind,
who turns dawn to darkness,
and treads on the heights of the earth—
the Lord God Almighty is his name.
Amos 4:13

The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it,
the world, and all who live in it.
Psalm 24:1

"Though the mountains be shaken
and the hills be removed,
yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken
nor my covenant of peace be removed,"
says the Lord, who has compassion on you.
Isaiah 54:10

For no word from God will ever fail.
Luke 1:37

Yours, Lord, is the greatness and the power
and the glory and the majesty and the splendor,
for everything in heaven and earth is yours.
Yours, Lord, is the kingdom;
you are exalted as head over all.
1 Chronicles 29:11

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
Revelation 1:8

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
1 Timothy 1:17

Quote from: pppp on Mon Aug 17, 2026 - 23:50:08Amo, continuing my post,
the next part of how Satan spreads darkness
& divides God's people.
Another way is to create a rift between the Jews & the Christians.
And the reason is because he does not want the Christians to help the Jews.
And the reason for that is that if no one will help them,
then they will lose.

And that is exactly the game of Satan,
because the Jews were chosen by God for a divine purpose.
Because Christ first came into the world through the Jews & the second time too Christ will come through the Jews & then they will accept Christ as the Messiah.

And the return of Christ means the end of Satan's reign of persecution, tears, pain & suffering.
So he purposely tries to create a rift between the Jews & Christians.
Another reason is that through the Jews God sends blessings & so Satan wants to stop this.
And Satan's mischief doesn't end here,

he even tries to create distractions & division between Christians themselves, in order to weaken Christianity.
But Satan in his arrogance, conceit & ignorance cannot envisage,
that his plans are a complete failure & that he can't & will never succeed in winning against the supreme hand of God,
Amen.
I am the Lord, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me?
Jeremiah 32:27

That is why the Christians in the world, should hold fast to the Word of God as this will ultimately bring light & send the darkness of Satan & Satan himself to the abyss.


He who forms the mountains,
who creates the wind,
and who reveals his thoughts to mankind,
who turns dawn to darkness,
and treads on the heights of the earth—
the Lord God Almighty is his name.
Amos 4:13

The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it,
the world, and all who live in it.
Psalm 24:1

"Though the mountains be shaken
and the hills be removed,
yet my unfailing love for you will not be shaken
nor my covenant of peace be removed,"
says the Lord, who has compassion on you.
Isaiah 54:10

For no word from God will ever fail.
Luke 1:37

Yours, Lord, is the greatness and the power
and the glory and the majesty and the splendor,
for everything in heaven and earth is yours.
Yours, Lord, is the kingdom;
you are exalted as head over all.
1 Chronicles 29:11

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
Revelation 1:8

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
1 Timothy 1:17

GOD IS NOT A DYING JEWISH MAN

pppp, I would put the whole thought together this way:

Satan's deception is to turn mankind's eyes toward the temporal dying things that are seen rather than the eternal things of the invisible God.

Scripture describes God as:

"The King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God." — 1 Timothy 1:17

ETERNAL — not dying.
IMMORTAL — not mortal.
INVISIBLE — not visible flesh.

That is why Scripture tells us:

"For we walk by faith, not by sight." — 2 Corinthians 5:7

THE FATHER GAVE THE WORDS

Jesus continually directed attention beyond his visible flesh to the unseen Father:

"The word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me." — John 14:24

And:

"The Father that dwelleth in me, HE DOETH THE WORKS." — John 14:10

There is the two-fold work of faith that begins with creation:

1. "LET THERE BE" — God speaks.
2. "IT WAS SO... GOOD" — God alone performs the work.

The unseen Father supplied the words; the Son of man Jesus visibly carried out the promised demonstration.

PETER LOOKED AT THE THINGS OF MEN

When Jesus revealed the coming suffering, Peter resisted:

"Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee." — Matthew 16:22

Christ answered:

"Get thee behind me, Satan... for thou savourest not the THINGS THAT BE OF GOD, but those that be OF MEN." — Matthew 16:23

Peter was looking at what his natural eyes could see—the things of men.

Faith must look beyond the temporal flesh to the invisible things of God.

THE BLOODY HUSBAND — TWO WITNESSES

Now consider the strange but powerful language of Exodus:

"Surely a BLOODY HUSBAND art thou to me." — Exodus 4:25

And again:

"A BLOODY HUSBAND thou art, because of the circumcision." — Exodus 4:26

Twice:

BLOODY HUSBAND.
BLOODY HUSBAND.

Two witnesses.

And Scripture itself connects the Bloody Husband with circumcision.

I see this ceremonial shadow pointing forward to the Gospel demonstration of Christ our Husband.

THE VEIL OF FLESH WAS RENT

At Calvary:

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom." — Matthew 27:51

Hebrews tells us what the veil represents:

"Through the veil, that is to say, HIS FLESH." — Hebrews 10:20

There is the spiritual picture I see when comparing spiritual things with spiritual:

BLOODY HUSBAND — twice witnessed.
CIRCUMCISION — the ceremonial shadow.
RENT VEIL — His flesh.
CIRCUMCISION WITHOUT HANDS — the spiritual reality.

For Paul says:

"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision MADE WITHOUT HANDS." — Colossians 2:11

The Gospel reality is not confidence in dying flesh. It is the unseen work of Christ in the born-again believer.

SATAN COULD DECEIVE THE NATIONS NO MORE

Now carry that principle into Revelation 20:

"And cast him into the bottomless pit... that he should DECEIVE THE NATIONS NO MORE, till the thousand years should be fulfilled." — Revelation 20:3

Revelation says Satan's restraint prevents him from deceiving the nations.

The particular deception I see exposed by the Gospel is mankind's tendency to make the eternal invisible God into the image of mortal, dying flesh—to make God a dying Jewish man.

But Scripture says God is:

ETERNAL.
IMMORTAL.
INVISIBLE.

When Satan is released, what does he immediately do?

"And shall go out to DECEIVE THE NATIONS." — Revelation 20:8

The deception begins again.

LOOK BEYOND THE FLESH

This helps me understand Paul's remarkable statement:

"Though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more." — 2 Corinthians 5:16

The temporal flesh performed its appointed part in the demonstration. Faith looks through the veil to the eternal reality.

"For the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal." — 2 Corinthians 4:18

So put the whole picture together:

The Father gave the words.

The Son of man Jesus performed the demonstration.

The Bloody Husband was witnessed twice.

The circumcision pointed beyond flesh.

The veil of flesh was rent.

The true circumcision is without hands.

Satan was restrained from deceiving the nations.

Let there be Faith looks beyond temporal flesh to the invisible God.

Therefore my conclusion is:

GOD IS NOT A DYING JEWISH MAN.

"God is a Spirit." — John 4:24

"The King eternal, immortal, invisible." — 1 Timothy 1:17

Walk by faith, not by sight.

 garee, thank you for reading & your reply,
ok, I have understood what you have written.
John 4:24: "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
John 1:1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was the God.
"John 1:14: "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

God is a Spirit but He sent His one & only Chosen Son, in human form, as a Jew.
The Holy Bible is the guiding path for all the believers.
And the Holy Bible purely teaches us that He considers the Jewish people as His chosen & the apple of His eyes.

Deuteronomy 7:7-8
"The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples, but because the Lord loved you and kept the oath which He swore to your forefathers..."
Jeremiah 31:3
"The Lord appeared to us in the past, saying, 'I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with unfailing kindness.'"
1 Chronicles 16:15-16:
 "He remembers his covenant forever, the promise he made, for a thousand generations, the covenant he made with Abraham, the oath he swore to Isaac."

Deuteronomy 10:15
"Yet the Lord set His affection on your ancestors and loved them, and He chose you, their descendants, above all the nations—as it is today."
And God chose the Jews for a divine purpose ...because Christ, the Saviour of humanity would come through them the first time & the second.
Acts 3:13:
 "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus..."


Revelation 21:12-13: "It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south, and three on the west."

God does not do anything in error because He is perfect & there is no error in Him.
God is light, He is the truth, He is blameless, He is eternal.
And He knows everything in advance.
Before He made the earth & its inhabitants, He knew the end,
& before the end came, He knew the beginning & made it.
And God knew in advance that He would make mankind & Satan would not only rebel against Him but deceive mankind as well.
That is why, Christ who was always present even before humanity was made,
was sent in human form as a Jew.
So Christ, came first as a Jew.
And He will come again the second time through the Jews.
Amen.
God knows what He is doing & what He has already written will happen,
Amen.

Revelation 12
...7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
... 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Revelation clearly states that Satan was hurled to the earth,
and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring.
But due to the restraining power of The Holy Spirit,
Satan though tries his mischief but is incapable of fully destroying either the Jews or the Christians.
But when the restraining power of the Holy Spirit will be removed,
(though the Holy Spirit will remain on the earth among the people),
then Satan along with his unholy duo of the antichrist & the false teacher will come to deceive mankind & persecute the faithful.
And according to the redemtive plan of God,
Christ will come again through the Jews & they will accept Him as the Messiah,
Amen.
What has been ordained by God, shall not be undone by mankind.

The Holy Bible is the Word of God & what has been written in it is God's permanent verdict. And it cannot be changed, reduced, no additions or misinterpretations to it either.

 Deuteronomy 4:2:
"Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you."

Psalm 119:89: "Your word, Lord, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens."
Isaiah 40:8:
 "The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God endures forever.
"Matthew 5:18: "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

And God chose to send Christ in human form as a Jew & Christ will always remain a Jew.
Because that is the will of God,
And the Bible clearly teaches us that Christ considered Himself as the Son of God & a Jew.
Amen.
Romans 15:8:
 Paul writes, "For I tell you that Christ became a servant to the circumcised [Jews] to show God's truthfulness, in order to confirm the promises given to the patriarchs."
John 4:22-26 :Jesus replied ...
 "You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews".

23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

25 The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."

26 Then Jesus declared, "I, the one speaking to you—I am he."

And even in Heaven Christ will remain a Jew,
& the Chosen Son of God & God Himself,
And the Bible clearly teaches us that Christ considered Himself as the Son of God & a Jew.
Amen.

Revelation 5:5:
"Then one of the elders said to me, 'Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed.'"

Hebrews 7:14:
"For it is evident that our Lord descended from Judah..."

Hebrews 13:8:
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever."
The Word of God shall triumph,
Amen.

And Our Beloved Lord Jesus Christ is in Heaven & will come again in human form.
Hebrews 2:17:"For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God..."

Hebrews 7:24:"But because he lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood."
1 Timothy 2:5:"For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus."

Luke 24:39 (Christ after His Resurrection):"Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

May the Holy Spirit guide God's people in the truth of The Holy Scripture which is The Word of God which is the Holy Bible.
He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."
Luke 11:28
    

Quote

CHAP. IV.—I HAVE NEED OF HUMILITY.

But I measure myself, that I may not perish through boasting: but it is good to glory in the Lord. And even though I were established in things pertaining to God, yet then would it befit me to be the more fearful, and not give heed to those that vainly puff me up. For those that commend me scourge me. , but I know not if I be worthy to do so. For the envy of the wicked one is not visible to many, but it wars against me. I therefore have need of meekness, by which the devil, the prince of this world, is brought to nought.

Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 67.

As a bishop, Ignatius called upon all the faithful to look upon bishops as though they were God, several times. This of course would mean that they should look upon him as though he were God. So, I would say, his above confession that he is in need of meekness is totally appropriate. I am not sure though, who exactly could vainly puff him up any more than his own request to all, to view him as God Himself. What could they possibly say, to exalt or puff his position up any higher?

Quote

CHAP. V.—I WILL NOT TEACH YOU PROFOUND DOCTRINES.

For might not I write to you things more full of mystery? But I fear to do so, lest I should inflict injury on you who are but babes [in Christ]. Pardon me in this respect, lest, as not being able to receive their weighty import, ye should be strangled by them. For even I, though I am bound [for Christ], and am able to understand heavenly things, the angelic orders, and the different sorts of angels and hosts, the distinctions between powers and dominions, and the diversities between thrones and authorities, the mightiness of the Æons, and the pre-eminence of the cherubim and seraphim, the sublimity of the spirit, the kingdom of the Lord, and above all, the incomparable majesty of Almighty God—though I am acquainted with these things, yet am I not therefore by any means perfect; nor am I such a disciple as Paul or Peter. For many things are yet wanting to me, that I may not fall short of God.

Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 68.

Ah yes, such humility. Good thing he wouldn't share such advanced knowledge of God and spiritual enlightenment with the lesser members of the body Christ, who quite frankly could not handle such knowledge. I'm not sure how his confession that he is not perfect though, will help those beneath him who do not have such very extensive knowledge, to look upon him as though he were God. Is not such a confession that they most certainly should not?

QuoteSaint Ignatius of Loyola (1491–1556) , was a soldier & a nobleman & later became a priest.

Some call him a saint, others have a different view of his practices, exercises, teaching, and legacy. Before I find time to read through your above responses and reply, I want to address another issue from your previous response I have not addressed yet. The issue of "Saint" Ignatius Loyola. This post may be followed by numerous other quotes concerning those of this differing opinion as well. Emphasis in the following quotes is mine.

QuoteLoyola was born in 1491. He was wounded at the siege of Pampeluna in 1520. After a period of meditation and mortification, he devoted himself, in 1522, to the service of the Church; and in 1540, the Order of the Jesuits was recognized at Rome and established by papal bull. The Society early took root in France, where it was introduced by the Cardinal de Lorraine; and it shortly after acquired almost supreme influence in the State. Under the Jesuits, the Romish Church, reorganised and redisciplined, became one of the most complete of spiritual machines. The Jesuits enjoined implicit submission and obedience. Against liberty they set up authority. To them the Individual was nothing, the Order everything. They were vigilant sentinels, watching night and day over the interests of Rome. One of the first works to which they applied themselves, was the extirpation of the heretics who had strayed from the fold. The principal instrument which they employed with this object, was the Inquisition; and wherever they succeeded in establishing themselves, that institution was set up, or was armed with fresh powers. They tolerated no half-measures. They were unsparing and unpitying; and wherever a heretic was brought before them, and they had the power to deal with him, he must either recant or die. (HUGUENOTS IN ENGLAND AND IRELAND by Samuel Smiles, Chap. 4, pg. 53)


On the following day, the Cardinal de Lorraine, brother of the Duke, was murdered in another part of the castle. Catherine de Medicis had now finished the atrocities of her life. She died twelve days after the murder of Henry of Guise; and eight months later, her son Henry III. was assassinated by Jacques Clement, the Jesuit monk, in the camp before Paris, in August 1589. (Ibid, Chap. 4, pg. 67)

When the French and Spanish monarchs found that Elizabeth continued to give an asylum to their Protestant subjects, they proceeded to compass her death. Assassination was in those days regarded as the readiest method of getting rid of an adversary; and in the case of an excommunicated person, it was regarded almost in the light of a religious duty. When the Regent Murray (of Scotland) was assassinated by Bothwellhaugh, in 1570, Mary Queen of Scotland gave the assassin a pension. Attempts were made about the same time on the life of William of Orange, surnamed "The Silent." One made at Mechlin, in 1572, proved a failure; but William was eventually assassinated at Delft, in 1585, by Balthazar Gerard, an avowed agent of Philip II. and the Jesuits; and Philip afterwards ennobled the family of the assassin. (Ibid, chap. 5, pg. 71)


The massacre of Saint Bartholomew most probably sealed the fate of Mary Stuart. She herself rejoiced in it as a bold stroke for the Faith, and, it might be, as the signal for a like enterprise on her own behalf. Accordingly, she went on plotting as before; and in 1581 she was found engaged in a conspiracy with the Duke of Lennox for the re-establishment of Popery in Scotland, under the auspices of the Jesuits. These intrigues of the Queen of Scots at length became intolerable. Her repeated and urgent solicitations to the King of Spain to invade England with a view to the re-establishment of the old religion — the conspiracies against the life of Elizabeth in which she was from time to time detected7 — excited the vehement indignation of the English nation, and eventually led to her trial and execution; for it was felt that so long as Mary Stuart lived, the life of the English Queen, as well as the liberties of the English people, were in constant jeopardy. (Ibid, chap.5, pg. 75)

But though Henry IV. governed France ably and justly for a period of sixteen years his enemies, the Jesuits, never forgave him, nor did his apostasy avert their vengeance. After repeated attempts made upon his life by their emissaries, he was eventually assassinated by Francis Ravaillac, a lay brother of the monastery of St. Bernard, on the 14th of May 1610. (Ibid, Chap. 8 pg. 108)

The Jesuits now obtained all that they wanted. They made a compact withMadame, by which she was to advise the King to revoke the Edict of Nantes, while they were to consent to her marriage with him. Pere la Chaise, the Royal confessor, advised a private marriage. The ceremony was performed at Versailles by the Archbishop of Paris, in the presence of the confessor and two more witnesses. The precise date of the transaction is not known; but it is surmised that the Edict was revoked one day, and that the marriage took place the next.5The Act of Revocation was published on the 22nd of October, 1685. [b It was the death-knell of the Huguenots. [/b](Ibid, Chap. 9, pg. 126)

It may not be unimportant to remark that William was, like the other princes of his race, an enthusiastic Protestant. The history of his family was identified with the rise and progress of the new views, as well as with the emancipation of the United Provinces from the yoke of Spain and the Inquisition. His great-grandsire had fallen a victim to the dagger of Gerard, the agent of the Jesuits, and expired in the arms of his wife, the daughter of Admiral Coligny. Thus, the best Huguenot blood flowed in the veins of the young Prince of Orange; and his sympathies were wholly on the side of the fugitives who sought the asylum of Holland against the cruelty of their persecutors. (Ibid, Chap. 11, pg. 152)

Protestantism, though proscribed, was not, however, dead; and meetings of the Huguenots continued to be held in "the Desert" — by night, in caves, in the woods, among the hills, by the sea-shore, where a body of faithful pastors ministered to them at the hourly peril of their lives. The "Church in the Desert" was even regularly organized, had its stated elders, deacons, and ministers, and appointed circuit meetings. Very rarely were their secrets betrayed; yet they could not always escape the vigilance of the Jesuits, who continued to track them with the aid of the soldiery and police, and succeeded in sending fresh victims to the galleys so long as they retained power in France. ( Ibid, Chap. 18, pg. 266)

The punishment of the galleys was also drawing to an end. The mutterings of the coming revolution were already beginning to be heard. The long uncontrolled rule of the Jesuits had paved the way for Voltaire and Rousseau, whose influence was about to penetrate French society. In 1764, the Jesuits were suppressed by Parliament, and the persecutions in a great measure ceased. In 1769, Alexander Chambon, of Praules in the Viverais, the last galley-slave for the faith, was discharged from the convict-prison at Toulon, through the intervention of the Prince of Beauvau. Chambon was then eighty years old, and had passed twenty seven years at the galleys, to which he had been condemned for attending a religious meeting. (Ibid, pg. 267)

One thing especially strikes the intelligent reader of French history subsequent to the Act of Revocation — and that is, the almost total disappearance of great Frenchmen. After that date; we become conscious of a dull, dead level of subserviency and conformity to the despotic will of the King. Louis trampled under foot individuality, strength, and genius; there remained only mediocrity, feebleness, and flunkeyism. This feature of the time has been noted by writers so various as De Felice, Merivale, Michelet, and Buckle — the last of whom goes so far as to say that Louis XIV. "survived the entire intellect of the French nation." The Protestant universities of Saumur, Montauban, Nismes, and Sedan were suppressed, and their professors departed into other lands. All Protestant schools were closed, and the whole educational organization of the nation was placed in the hands of the Jesuits. War was declared against Books forbidden by the Church of Rome. Domiciliary visits were paid by the district commanders to every person suspected of possessing them; and all devotional books of sermons and hymns, as well as Bibles and Testaments, that could be found, were ruthlessly burnt. (Ibid, chap. 19, pg. 270)

The policy of Louis XIV. had succeeded, and France was at length "converted"! Protestantism had been crushed, and the Jesuits were triumphant. Their power over the bodies and souls of the people was as absolute as law could make it. The whole education of the country was placed in their hands; and what the character of the next generation was to be, depended in a great measure upon them. Not only the churches and the schools, but even the national prisons, were controlled by them. They were the confessors of the bastiles, of which there were twenty in France, where persons could be incarcerated for life on the authority merely of lettres de cachet, which were given away or sold. Besides the bastiles and the galleys,over which the Jesuits presided, there were also the state prisons, of which Paris alone contained about thirty, besides convents — where persons might be immured without any sentence. "Surely never," says Michelet, "had man's dearest treasure, liberty, been more lavishly squandered." (Ibid, pg. 271)





A Declaration of his Highness, for a collection towards the relief of divers protestant churches driven out of Poland; and of twenty protestant families driven out of the confines of Bohemia.

HIS HIGHNESS, the lord protector, having received a petition from several churches of Christ, professing the reformed religion, lately seated at Lesna, and other places in Poland, representing their sad and deplorable condition, through the persecution and cruelty of their antichristian enemies in those parts, in the time of the war in Poland, by whom they have not only been driven from their habitation and spoiled of their goods, upon the account of religion only, but forced to fly into Silesia, for the preservation of their lives, and for the liberty of their consciences, where a considerable number of them continue in great want and misery — the truth whereof hath been witnessed, as well by deputies sent unto his highness from the said churches, authorized by an instrument under the hands of the pastors of five of those churches, as also by the testimony of several protestant princes, who, out of a deep sense of the calamity of those distressed exiles, have afforded them shelter until it shall please the Lord otherwise to provide for them: And his highness having, in like manner, received a petition from twenty protestant families heretofore seated in the confines of Bohemia, where Misnia belongs unto it, representing their distressed and lamentable condition, through the persecution of the jesuits and inquisitors of the house of Austria, by whom they have been driven out of their habitations, and spoiled of their goods, upon the sole account of their religion; who now, for the safety of their lives, and for the liberties of their consciences, are retired into the marquisate of Culembach, where they find a present shelter in this their very sad and calamitous condition, which hath been witnessed both by their deputies sent unto his highness, authorized by an instrument under the hands of the chief of those families, as also by a public certificate from thence. (THE HISTORY OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH by William Jones, vol. 2, sect. 7, pg. 305)

These sometime flourishing churches, were, by degrees worn out by the constant underminings and open outrages of the antichristian party, being first driven out of Bohemia into Poland, then after their taking root and spreading in Poland into a numerous company, were forced out of the chief cities there, and now, at last by the jesuited and enraged Polish army, persecuted in their few hiding places, with fire and sword. Their ministers were tortured to death by most exquisite and unheard of barbarism, by cutting out of the tongues of some, pulling out the eyes and cruelly mangling the bodies of others; nor did their rage and brutish cruelty reach only to ministers, but to others, yea even to women and young children, whose heads they cut off, and laid them at their dead mothers' breasts. (Ibid,. Pgs. 308&309)

Hence it came to pass that the kings at their coronations were wont not only to promise, but solemnly to swear protection to such as disagreed from the Roman religion, and, therefore, they proceeded not to open persecutions, save only in those cities where the Jesuits had seated themselves in power, to wit, Cracovia, Posen, Lubin, Vilna, etc. where, by their disciples, and by stirring up the common people to fury, the churches of the reformed professors were a good while ago demolished and divers ministers cruelly massacred.(Ibid., pg. 311)






THE AUTO DE FE

The cruel death by which the Inquisition closed the career of its victims was styled in Spain and Portugal as AUTO DE FE, or "Act of Faith," being regarded as a religious ceremony of peculiar solemnity; and to invest the act with greater sanctity, the cruel deed was always done on the Lord's day. The innocent victims of this papal barbarity were led forth in procession to the place of execution. They were dressed in the most fantastic manner. On the caps and tunics of some were painted the flames of hell, and dragons and demons fanning them to keep them brisk for the heretics; and the Jesuits thundering in their ears that the fires before them were nothing to the fires of hell which they would have to endure for ever. If any brave heart attempted to say a word for the Lord, or in defense of the truth for which he was about to suffer, his mouth was instantly gagged. The condemned were then chained to stakes. Any of the persons confessing that he was a true Catholic and wished to die in the Catholic faith, had the privilege of being strangled before he was burned; but those who refused to claim the privilege, were burnt alive, and reduced to ashes. (MILLER'S CHURCH HISTORY by Andrew Miller, Chap. 26, pgs. 645&6)

THE JESUITS' REAL OBJECT

Thus far we have trodden on ground over which the real character of the Jesuit does not appear — we have only had to do with vows intended to deceive; but were we to pursue their history, we should have to trace in every land the blood-stained footprints of the treacherous and cruel followers of Loyola. Spreading themselves over the world, we find them secretly executing the decrees and private wishes of the Vatican. Their one grand object was to extend the power of the pope, and the one grand fundamental principle of the fraternity was immediate, implicit, unquestioning, unhesitating obedience to him, through their general, who resides in Rome. The organization of their society is by far the most comprehensive of any in existence. "The Jesuit monarchy," it has been said, "covers the globe." In almost every province of the world they have Generals Provincial, who correspond with the General Superior at Rome; so that by means of the confessional, he sees and knows almost everything that is done and said, not only in the Romish church, but in private families, and throughout all parts of the habitable globe. No place is too distant, no difficulties or dangers too great, and no means too nefarious for the Jesuit, if there is the slightest hope of extending the power of the papacy. The Gunpowder Plot, which was planned to destroy at one blow the nobility and gentry of England, is attributed to Jesuitical influence; and so are many other plots which were intended to accomplish the death of Queen Elizabeth. The gigantic wickedness of the Spanish Armada, and the crowning slaughter of the St. Bartholomew massacre, to say nothing of the many seditions, torturings, poisonings, assassinations, and massacres on a smaller scale, must be attributed to the policy, and to the seed sown by the Jesuits. So mighty did their power become, and so ruinous, that it was often found necessary for the government to suppress them. According to modern history, they were expelled from Portugal in 1759; France 1764; Spain and Spanish America, 1767; the two Sicilies, 1768; and in 1773 suppressed by the pope Ganganelli, Clement XIV. But soon after he had signed the order for their banishment, he fell a victim to their vengeance, and died by poison. In 1801 they were restored by Pius VII.; in 1860 they were dismissed from Sicily; but we need scarcely add, that they soon found ways and means to return. The late pope, Pius IX., confirmed the restoration of the order; so that they now occupy a very proud position in Rome. They have the command of most of the collegiate establishments in the city, and in so many other places, that merely to name them would fill a page. (Ibid, Chap. 47, pgs 1093&4)

Philip now eyed the great patriot with the most deadly hatred. He saw in him the animating soul of these struggles for liberty, and hence he sought his life. "Five unsuccessful attempts had been made to assassinate William; but Philip would not give up hope. In 1580 he published a ban of proscription, in which he denounced the prince as guilty of the foulest crimes, and declared that it was permitted to all persons to assail him in his fortunes, person, and life; and promised twenty-five thousand golden crowns, a pardon for all offenses whatsoever, and a patent of nobility, to anyone who should deliver up to him this implacable monarch, William of Nassau, dead or alive." This infamous document soon did its work. On the 10th of July, 1584, a Jesuit, named Gerard, who had passed himself off to the unsuspecting prince as one of the Reformed faith, shot him through the heart, in the hall of his own house, with a pistol which he had bought with money obtained from the prince himself a short time before. "God have mercy on my soul, and on this unfortunate nation," exclaimed the wounded patriot and instantly expired. He had married the widow of Teligny, the daughter of the brave Coligny, who both fell in the St. Bartholomew massacre. Thus had she seen her first and second husband, and her noble father, assassinated by her side. (Ibid, Chap. 48, pg. 1122)

When the "Grand Monarch," Louis XIV. of France, was dying, he asked his confessor, father Le Chaise, "By what good deed as a king, he might atone for his many sins as a man." "Extirpate Protestantism from France," was the Jesuit's ready reply. He speedily complied, and revoked the edict of Nantes, which led to the slaughter and banishment of tens — we may say, of hundreds — of thousands of God's witnesses in France.In this way was the humane duke of Savoy influenced to send an armed force into the valleys, in order to reduce the inhabitants to the Romish obedience, or to exterminate them. But he saw his mistake, and we have no doubt was willing enough to conclude a peace, such as it was. The death of Cromwell, which took place in 1658, deprived the Waldenses of their sincerest friend and most powerful intercessor. He had sanctioned a collection for them, and contributed from his own purse two thousand pounds. The whole amount collected at that time was thirty-eight thousand pounds. (Ibid, Chap. 52, pgs. 1210&11)





This pope seeing the protestant religion gaining ground, and the Roman power declining in most parts of Europe, and particularly, to be in great danger in France, should so warlike a prince as Henry IV., then a protestant, obtain a peaceable enjoyment of that throne, he not only excommunicated that prince, but formed a holy league, as they call it, between the kings and princes of the Roman communion, to extirpate the protestants every where, into which many of them entered. Moreover, it was then agreed at Rome, with the emperor's approbation, that Jesuits should be settled and maintained in all the cities of the empire, by whose contrivances, the way might be prepared for persecution: thus was this satanical project laid by the antichrist of Rome, and to conduct the whole affair, a double senate, council or congregation, was there constituted, of which one is styled the congregation for the propagation of the faith, the other, the congregation of the holy league; the former to pervert, the latter to extirpate heretics. (HISTORY OF THE ANCIENT CHRISTIANS, by Jean Paul Perrin, Chap. 11, pg. 488)

This Jesuit and his associates, did all tha was possible to gain the poor and silly people of the valleys, suggesting to them, that the charitable contributions were so considerable, that if they were distributed according to the intentions of those that had given them, every one at least would have for his share 14 or 1500 livres, and by this seditious discourse they designed to arm them one against the other, and so to destroy them by their own swords. And not content with this, they wrote to foreign countries, France, Switzerland, Ireland, and England, where their charitable collections were gathered, that the chief inhabitants had divided it among themselves, and made merry with it, and let the poor perish with hunger, giving them no part; and by these ties they designed to hinder strangers from being any more touched with the sense of their miseries. (Ibid, Chap.12, section 4, pg. 519)

"Je sais que je suis aime des Vaudois. J'ai fait la guerre dansces vallees. J'ai demeure quelque tems au milieu d'eux avec plaisir. Leur attachement m'etoit connu. Maintenant je suis charme d'apprendre par vous, que dans ces dernieres circonstances, ils n'ayent point dementi leur caractere." Nevertheless, against those, most exemplary and inoffensive Christians, the present king of Sardinia, at the instigatton of the Jesuits, has lately commenced another deadly persecution, which already has again been counteracted by the interposition of their brethren of the various Reformed Churches in Europe. (Ibid, Footnotes, pg. 713)

Perrin, in this remark, referred to the churches of the Huguenots, at the period when he wrote, 1618. In consequence of the toleration and favor exhibited towards the reformed Christians by Henry IV. for a short time, through divine mercy they were much in the same condition, with the brethren of the primitive race of believers, of whom it is recorded, Acts 9:31, "The churches had rest and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied." All those Waldensian churches were subsequently devastated by the revocation of the edict of Nantes; "so that the flourishing cities set on a hill," whose "zeal and piety" could not be hidden, were overthrown. The few Christians who survived the universal ravages contrived and enforced by Louis XIV. and the Jesuits, were scattered among the protestant countries; some of them even escaping to America, and the pure resplendency of the evangelical light among the Christian churches in France, almost was extinguished. On that same hallowed provence, where the spiritual Ark of God then appeared to have taken up its abode, has been inscribed during the last hundred and fifty years, "Ichabod, where is the glory?" (Ibid, pg. 723)

CHAP. IV.—I HAVE NEED OF HUMILITY.

But I measure myself, that I may not perish through boasting: but it is good to glory in the Lord. And even though I were established in things pertaining to God, yet then would it befit me to be the more fearful, and not give heed to those that vainly puff me up. For those that commend me scourge me. , but I know not if I be worthy to do so. For the envy of the wicked one is not visible to many, but it wars against me. I therefore have need of meekness, by which the devil, the prince of this world, is brought to nought.

Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 67.

Please allow me to humbly offer an explanation for what a devout Saint wrote ...
From the following paragraph written by Saint Ignatius of Antioch... it means,
that Saint Ignatius was a humble person, not wishing for praise from anyone.
Then he talks of Satan's envy against him,
though it was not visible to many, yet it was directed towards him.
This is the truth about what Saint Ignatius has written,
because whether in that era or in this,
seldom do people believe in the invisible wars which Satan plays on God's chosen.
Yet, it is the truth, no one may see Satan themselves,
yet through his dark accomplices,
he plays his dark games.
Satan does not fear those who are no threat to him,
but he fears those who surrender to God.
Because this surrender makes the chosen as vessels for miracles on the earth.
And this is a powerful reality.
Even before God's elect come on the earth,
God already knows the future
& when these chosen elect come on the earth,
God stamps them with an invisible stamp which Heaven can see & so can Satan.
And Satan trembles at this.
Heaven acknowledges its own & the Holy Spirit powerfully enters the lives of God's chosen.
But this concept few understand as usually people only believe in what they can see.
That is why Saint Ignatius wrote about the devil envying him & waging war against him, because Satan in his vanity, ignorance & conceit thinks that by waging wars against God's chosen he can win
But his vanity has no divine wisdom.
That is why Saint Ignatius said that by his meekness the devil will be brought to nought.
This showed that being submissive, humble & obedient to God,
the devil would be defeated.
As even death could not take Saint Ignatius away from Christ & this was another victory over Satan
& the triumph of Heaven.
To God be the glory forever.
Amen.
According to what I read,
after the ex*cution of Saint Ignatius of Antioch,
his body was checked,
& on his heart was the name of Jesus Christ written in gold letters.
This supernatural happening made many convert to Christianity.
It is also said that Saint Ignatius of Antioch saw a heavenly vision of angels chanting in alternating choirs & then introduced this way of worship in the Church of Antioch.
To Christ be the glory forever.
Amen.

CHAP. V.—I WILL NOT TEACH YOU PROFOUND DOCTRINES.

For might not I write to you things more full of mystery? But I fear to do so, lest I should inflict injury on you who are but babes [in Christ]. Pardon me in this respect, lest, as not being able to receive their weighty import, ye should be strangled by them. For even I, though I am bound [for Christ], and am able to understand heavenly things, the angelic orders, and the different sorts of angels and hosts, the distinctions between powers and dominions, and the diversities between thrones and authorities, the mightiness of the Æons, and the pre-eminence of the cherubim and seraphim, the sublimity of the spirit, the kingdom of the Lord, and above all, the incomparable majesty of Almighty God—though I am acquainted with these things, yet am I not therefore by any means perfect; nor am I such a disciple as Paul or Peter. For many things are yet wanting to me, that I may not fall short of God.

Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 68.


From the passage above Saint Ignatius simply meant ...
That he did not wish to share about advanced spiritual doctrines as the believers were not matured enough to understand what he would have meant. This was his love & care towards them & not his pride.
He also stated that though he understood about spiritual doctrines,
yet he did not consider himself to be perfect nor could he be a disciple as Paul or Peter.
And he also specifies that he may still lack a few things, & because of that, may he not lose his closeness to Christ.
This showed his humility, deep reverence for Christ & obedience to Him.
To Christ be the glory now & forever,
Amen.