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CHAP. IV.—HAVE BUT ONE EUCHARIST, ETC.

I have confidence of you in the Lord, that ye will be of no other mind. Wherefore I write boldly to your love, which is worthy of God, and exhort you to have but one faith, and one [kind of] preaching, and one Eucharist. For there is one flesh of the Lord Jesus Christ; and His blood which was shed for us is one; one loaf also is broken to all [the communicants], and one cup is distributed among them all: there is but one altar for the whole Church, and one bishop, with the presbytery and deacons, my fellow-servants. Since, also, there is but one unbegotten Being, God, even the Father; and one only-begotten Son, God, the Word and man; and one Comforter, the Spirit of truth; and also one preaching, and one faith, and one baptism; and one Church which the holy apostles established from one end of the earth to the other by the blood of Christ, and by their own sweat and toil; it behoves you also, therefore, as "a peculiar people, and a holy nation," to perform all things with harmony in Christ. Wives, be ye subject to your husbands in the fear of God; and ye virgins, to Christ in purity, not counting marriage an abomination, but desiring that which is better, not for the reproach of wedlock, but for the sake of meditating on the law. Children, obey your parents, and have an affection for them, as workers together with God for your birth [into the world]. Servants, be subject to your masters in God, that ye may be the freed-men of Christ. Husbands, love your wives, as fellow-servants of God, as your own body, as the partners of your life, and your co-adjutors in the procreation of children. Virgins, have Christ alone before your eyes, and His Father in your prayers, being enlightened by the Spirit. May I have pleasure in your purity, as that of Elijah, or as of Joshua the son of Nun, as of Melchizedek, or as of Elisha, as of Jeremiah, or as of John the Baptist, as of the beloved disciple, as of Timothy, as of Titus, as of Evodius, as of Clement, who departed this life in [perfect] chastity. Not, however, that I blame the other blessed [saints] because they entered into the married state, of which I have just spoken. For I pray that, being found worthy of God, I may be found at their feet in the kingdom, as at the feet of Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob; as of Joseph, and Isaiah, and the rest of the prophets; as of Peter, and Paul, and the rest of the apostles, that were married men. For they entered into these marriages not for the sake of appetite, but out of regard for the propagation of mankind. Fathers, "bring up your children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord;" and teach them the holy Scriptures, and also trades, that they may not indulge in idleness. Now [the Scripture] says, "A righteous father educates [his children] well; his heart shall rejoice in a wise son." Masters, be gentle towards your servants, as holy Job has taught you; for there is one nature, and one family of mankind. For "in Christ there is neither bond nor free." Let governors be obedient to Cæsar; soldiers to those that command them; deacons to the presbyters, as to high-priests; the presbyters, and deacons, and the rest of the clergy, together with all the people, and the soldiers, and the governors, and Cæsar [himself], to the bishop; the bishop to Christ, even as Christ to the Father. And thus unity is preserved throughout. Let not the widows be wanderers about, nor fond of dainties, nor gadders from house to house; but let them be like Judith, noted for her seriousness; and like Anna, eminent for her sobriety. I do not ordain these things as an apostle: for "who am I, or what is my father's house," that I should pretend to be equal in honour to them? But as your "fellow-soldier," I hold the position of one who [simply] admonishes you.

Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Philadelphians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 81–82.

There you have it, the established order of the Roman church, Roman Catholicism. Caesar himself subject to the bishop, not bishops. Which bishop in the singular is he talking about, or does he mean that Caesar himself should be subject to all bishops? Where does our Lord Jesus Christ or any of His Apostles declare that the Caesars themselves must be obedient to bishops, which is to bring the world directly into the church. Which is exactly what happened under the mandate of the first professed Caesar and Roman Pontifex Maximus Constantine, when he decreed Christianity to be the official religion of the empire. Which later developed into the bishop of Rome (Pope), being over all other bishops and leaders of the world, as Pontifex Maximus. Ignatius was a forerunner of Roman Catholicism, more than a church father of bible believers, he was a church father of Roman Christianity.

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Pontifex_Maximus

Quote below from link above.

QuoteThe Pontifex Maximus (which literally means "Greatest Pontiff") was the high priest of the Ancient Roman College of Pontiffs. This was the most important position in the ancient Roman religion, open only to patricians until 254 B.C.E., when a plebeian first occupied this post. A distinctly religious office under the early Roman Republic, it gradually became politicized until, beginning with Emperor Augustus, it was subsumed into the Imperial office. Its last use with reference to the emperors is found in inscriptions of Gratian, Emperor from 375 to 383 C.E., who, however, then decided to omit the words "pontifex maximus" from his title.

The title of "Pontifex Maximus," dating back to the times of the Roman Republic, was eventually adopted by the leader of the Roman Catholic Church. The terms pontifex maximus and summus pontifex were for centuries used by the Bishop of Rome also known as the pope. After Christ himself, the pope is considered to be the "high priest" (the veritable meaning of summus pontifex and "pontifex maximus"). However, this term is not officially included in his titles, but it is used in practice in the headings of his encyclicals and other papal documents.

The following papal bull, ends with the highlighted ultimatum of Roman Catholicism.

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UNAM SANCTAM

Bull of Pope Boniface VIII promulgated November 18, 1302
Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins, as the Spouse in the Canticles [Sgs 6:8] proclaims: 'One is my dove, my perfect one. She is the only one, the chosen of her who bore her,' and she represents one sole mystical body whose Head is Christ and the head of Christ is God [1 Cor 11:3]. In her then is one Lord, one faith, one baptism [Eph 4:5]. There had been at the time of the deluge only one ark of Noah, prefiguring the one Church, which ark, having been finished to a single cubit, had only one pilot and guide, i.e., Noah, and we read that, outside of this ark, all that subsisted on the earth was destroyed.

We venerate this Church as one, the Lord having said by the mouth of the prophet: 'Deliver, O God, my soul from the sword and my only one from the hand of the dog.' [Ps 21:20] He has prayed for his soul, that is for himself, heart and body; and this body, that is to say, the Church, He has called one because of the unity of the Spouse, of the faith, of the sacraments, and of the charity of the Church. This is the tunic of the Lord, the seamless tunic, which was not rent but which was cast by lot [Jn 19:23- 24]. Therefore, of the one and only Church there is one body and one head, not two heads like a monster; that is, Christ and the Vicar of Christ, Peter and the successor of Peter, since the Lord speaking to Peter Himself said: 'Feed my sheep' [Jn 21:17], meaning, my sheep in general, not these, nor those in particular, whence we understand that He entrusted all to him [Peter]. Therefore, if the Greeks or others should say that they are not confided to Peter and to his successors, they must confess not being the sheep of Christ, since Our Lord says in John 'there is one sheepfold and one shepherd.' We are informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal. For when the Apostles say: 'Behold, here are two swords' [Lk 22:38] that is to say, in the Church, since the Apostles were speaking, the Lord did not reply that there were too many, but sufficient. Certainly the one who denies that the temporal sword is in the power of Peter has not listened well to the word of the Lord commanding: 'Put up thy sword into thy scabbard' [Mt 26:52]. Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to be administered for the Church but the latter by the Church; the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest.

However, one sword ought to be subordinated to the other and temporal authority, subjected to spiritual power. For since the Apostle said: 'There is no power except from God and the things that are, are ordained of God' [Rom 13:1-2], but they would not be ordained if one sword were not subordinated to the other and if the inferior one, as it were, were not led upwards by the other.

For, according to the Blessed Dionysius, it is a law of the divinity that the lowest things reach the highest place by intermediaries. Then, according to the order of the universe, all things are not led back to order equally and immediately, but the lowest by the intermediary, and the inferior by the superior. Hence we must recognize the more clearly that spiritual power surpasses in dignity and in nobility any temporal power whatever, as spiritual things surpass the temporal. This we see very clearly also by the payment, benediction, and consecration of the tithes, but the acceptance of power itself and by the government even of things. For with truth as our witness, it belongs to spiritual power to establish the terrestrial power and to pass judgement if it has not been good. Thus is accomplished the prophecy of Jeremias concerning the Church and the ecclesiastical power: 'Behold to-day I have placed you over nations, and over kingdoms' and the rest. Therefore, if the terrestrial power err, it will be judged by the spiritual power; but if a minor spiritual power err, it will be judged by a superior spiritual power; but if the highest power of all err, it can be judged only by God, and not by man, according to the testimony of the Apostle: 'The spiritual man judgeth of all things and he himself is judged by no man' [1 Cor 2:15]. This authority, however, (though it has been given to man and is exercised by man), is not human but rather divine, granted to Peter by a divine word and reaffirmed to him (Peter) and his successors by the One Whom Peter confessed, the Lord saying to Peter himself, 'Whatsoever you shall bind on earth, shall be bound also in Heaven' etc., [Mt 16:19]. Therefore whoever resists this power thus ordained by God, resists the ordinance of God [Rom 13:2], unless he invent like Manicheus two beginnings, which is false and judged by us heretical, since according to the testimony of Moses, it is not in the beginnings but in the beginning that God created heaven and earth [Gen 1:1]. Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.

Bull of Pope Boniface VIII promulgated November 18, 1302
Urged by faith, we are obliged to believe and to maintain that the Church is one, holy, catholic, and also apostolic. We believe in her firmly and we confess with simplicity that outside of her there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins, as the Spouse in the Canticles [Sgs 6:8] proclaims: 'One is my dove, my perfect one. She is the only one, the chosen of her who bore her,' and she represents one sole mystical body whose Head is Christ and the head of Christ is God [1 Cor 11:3]. In her then is one Lord, one faith, one baptism [Eph 4:5]. There had been at the time of the deluge only one ark of Noah, prefiguring the one Church, which ark, having been finished to a single cubit, had only one pilot and guide, i.e., Noah, and we read that, outside of this ark, all that subsisted on the earth was destroyed.

We venerate this Church as one, the Lord having said by the mouth of the prophet: 'Deliver, O God, my soul from the sword and my only one from the hand of the dog.' [Ps 21:20] He has prayed for his soul, that is for himself, heart and body; and this body, that is to say, the Church, He has called one because of the unity of the Spouse, of the faith, of the sacraments, and of the charity of the Church. This is the tunic of the Lord, the seamless tunic, which was not rent but which was cast by lot [Jn 19:23- 24]. Therefore, of the one and only Church there is one body and one head, not two heads like a monster; that is, Christ and the Vicar of Christ, Peter and the successor of Peter, since the Lord speaking to Peter Himself said: 'Feed my sheep' [Jn 21:17], meaning, my sheep in general, not these, nor those in particular, whence we understand that He entrusted all to him [Peter]. Therefore, if the Greeks or others should say that they are not confided to Peter and to his successors, they must confess not being the sheep of Christ, since Our Lord says in John 'there is one sheepfold and one shepherd.' We are informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal. For when the Apostles say: 'Behold, here are two swords' [Lk 22:38] that is to say, in the Church, since the Apostles were speaking, the Lord did not reply that there were too many, but sufficient. Certainly the one who denies that the temporal sword is in the power of Peter has not listened well to the word of the Lord commanding: 'Put up thy sword into thy scabbard' [Mt 26:52]. Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to be administered for the Church but the latter by the Church; the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest.

However, one sword ought to be subordinated to the other and temporal authority, subjected to spiritual power. For since the Apostle said: 'There is no power except from God and the things that are, are ordained of God' [Rom 13:1-2], but they would not be ordained if one sword were not subordinated to the other and if the inferior one, as it were, were not led upwards by the other.

For, according to the Blessed Dionysius, it is a law of the divinity that the lowest things reach the highest place by intermediaries. Then, according to the order of the universe, all things are not led back to order equally and immediately, but the lowest by the intermediary, and the inferior by the superior. Hence we must recognize the more clearly that spiritual power surpasses in dignity and in nobility any temporal power whatever, as spiritual things surpass the temporal. This we see very clearly also by the payment, benediction, and consecration of the tithes, but the acceptance of power itself and by the government even of things. For with truth as our witness, it belongs to spiritual power to establish the terrestrial power and to pass judgement if it has not been good. Thus is accomplished the prophecy of Jeremias concerning the Church and the ecclesiastical power: 'Behold to-day I have placed you over nations, and over kingdoms' and the rest. Therefore, if the terrestrial power err, it will be judged by the spiritual power; but if a minor spiritual power err, it will be judged by a superior spiritual power; but if the highest power of all err, it can be judged only by God, and not by man, according to the testimony of the Apostle: 'The spiritual man judgeth of all things and he himself is judged by no man' [1 Cor 2:15]. This authority, however, (though it has been given to man and is exercised by man), is not human but rather divine, granted to Peter by a divine word and reaffirmed to him (Peter) and his successors by the One Whom Peter confessed, the Lord saying to Peter himself, 'Whatsoever you shall bind on earth, shall be bound also in Heaven' etc., [Mt 16:19]. Therefore whoever resists this power thus ordained by God, resists the ordinance of God [Rom 13:2], unless he invent like Manicheus two beginnings, which is false and judged by us heretical, since according to the testimony of Moses, it is not in the beginnings but in the beginning that God created heaven and earth [Gen 1:1]. Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.
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Religious titles and sincere zeal do not, by themselves, establish that someone speaks for God.

In Acts 22:3–5, Paul recounts being taught according to "the law of the fathers." With authorization from the high priest and elders, Saul persecuted followers of Christ "unto the death," imprisoning both men and women. He believed he was serving God, yet he was opposing Christ.

After his conversion, the persecutor became the persecuted. Paul's defence was:

"Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets" (Acts 24:13–14, KJV).

Here I see the distinction between inherited religious teaching and faithfulness to God's written word. Paul did not reject the God of his fathers or the Scriptures. He rejected his former opposition to Christ while confessing belief in all things written in the law and prophets.

The high priest in Acts was a Jewish religious leader, not the pope. My comparison concerns the danger facing religious leadership in every age: a title does not guarantee that its holder faithfully teaches God's word.

That warning applies to all of us. Claims of authority and traditions must be tested by Scripture. I understand Paul's confession as supporting my appeal to sola scriptura.

Calling sola scriptura a teaching "heresy" does not prove it false. Let us examine whether it agrees with what God has written.

Wanted to share this with readers ...
Saint Ignatius of Antioch always urged Christian unity.
And himself suffered & was martyred, yet kept the faith.

Christianity & the Christian people always faced a lot of trials & suffering in every era.
And this suffering was both emotional & physical.
But Christianity is not a religion for the weak of heart.
It is for those who lived by the soul.
And Christianity survived in every era, because of the martyrdom of Saints, the kings & knights (of all denominations), who not only stood to protect Christendom but by their sacrifices helped the faith to grow.

So, despite the trials & p*rsecutions, believers went through, God always sent kings & knights who brought light in the lives of His people & who stood up as defenders of the faith.
One of the people God chose was Emperor Constantine the Great.
And acc., to the true story, Emperor Constantine saw a vision, just before he defeated his rival at the Tiber River, near Rome.
The vision took place in 312 AD.

Emperor Constantine & his army saw a fiery Cross in the sky.
And it also came with the words "In hoc signo vinces"  which meant ''By, this sign, you will conquer''.
Emperor Constantine also saw a dream where Christ told him to use the Christian symbol as a mark & paint it on the shields of the soldiers in his army.
The result was the victory of Emperor Constantine the Great.
He attributed his victory to the God of the Christians & became a follower of Christ.

In 313 AD, Emperor Constantine the Great and co-emperor Licinius granted legal status and religious toleration to Christians across the Roman Empire.
And the Rise of Christianity had started.
All the Church property which had been seized was returned & religious freedom for believers had been granted, which meant that Christians could freely practice the faith.

Emperor Constantine also promoted the Christian faith by building grand Basilicas, giving funds for the Church, exempting the clergy from giving taxes & summoned and presided over the historic Church council to settle theological debates and create a unified Christian belief system
& declared that Jesus Christ is fully divine and of the same essence as the Father.

Emperor Constantine was a Christian patron for decades & received formal Baptism before he passed away in 337 AD. as in those days it was a common practice to be baptized later. He was later venerated as a saint.
Writers of ancient times looked upon Emperor Constantine as a person Chosen by God to end bloodshed & grant peace to the Church.

Saint Helena (mother of Emperor Constantine ) was born around AD 248–250 .
& was converted by her son Emperor Constantine the Great
& became the Roman Empress.
She was respected across many Christian Churches for spreading Christianity,
helping the poor people & also made a pilgrimage to the Holy Land where acc., to legend, she located the True Cross.
She also funded Church constructions.

Thanks Amo, for your reply given earlier.
I've understood what you've written.
But I'm stating something totally different.

In my earlier posts I mentioned about true Christian unity.
I never mentioned Christian unity which should be fake or used for personal gains.
Instead Christian unity should be about keeping Christ as the Head & seeing to the welfare of all the Christians & the Jews as well.

And I also wrote about unity among different denominations.
If anyone will read about the kings, knights & Saints (be they of any denomination),  & the conditions of those times,
they will know about  the trying conditions of those times,
& why kings, knights & Saints joined together.

Words may never be enough to describe how the Christians were suffering.
And the unity that I wrote about was the unity of different denominations who came together to protect Christians & Christianity. And they were not the ones who initiated a conflict rather rose to protect those behind them,
when heathen started those conflicts.

And that was the true unity of all the Christians.
After all, had they wanted they could have just stayed in their respective kingdoms,
or they could have just safeguarded their own kingdoms, without risking their own lives or spending their own finances.
But they chose differently.

And went across miles to join together & protect Christendom.
This is the true UNITY, about which I had written.
Secondly, I meant to explain that in every denomination there are & were good people,
who genuinely came forward to save & protect Christendom.
This is the true unity I had written about.

And there should be TRUE UNITY.
Unity among different denominations & Christians groups & amongst Christian people.
And also unity between the Jews & Christians.
And that is what Christ wishes for.
And such unity is blessed by Christ Himself.

And it is this unity which will help, save & protect Christendom in every era.
Unity in Christ is strength, courage & resilience.
Amen.

The last two posts are excellent examples of effective revisionist history. A version of history which ignores all negative aspects related to the history being addressed, painting a one sided false concept of what truly happened, and therefore the true effects of that being defended. Namely, the use of force by professed "Christians" upon others not simply to defend their positions, but also to impose their beliefs and will upon others. Not employing just force, but persecuting and deadly force. Not just upon the heathen, but upon other professing Christians, not in agreement with those "Christians" having and exercising the power to do so. Forced acceptance of religious faith, and forced unity with the church which had entered into unholy and unscriptural relations with the kings and powers that be of this world.

Revisionist history is not a new or recent phenomenon, it has been foisted upon humanity for a long time now. From professed "Christians" themselves as well, who throughout their past have censored the teachings or historical accounts of even other professed Christians with penalties up to death. Torturous death at that. These are the types of history, many "Christian" history revisionists ignore and often seek to censor and often do censure. 

I will provide one example concerning Constantine who was addressed in one of the previous posts I am addressing to prove my point. After which, I will direct those wishing to continue this conversation to create a new topic to do so. Where I will gladly examine this issue more closely. As this topic is about whether the writings of the "Church Fathers" is in agreement with Holy Scripture or not. If necessary I will start this new topic myself, to direct all those wishing to continue such discussion of the subject there. The following quoted material is from a book which may be viewed at the link above it, in chapter three entitled BABYLON.

https://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/index.php?topic=113707.0

Quote"The Catholic Church demanded assistance in her ambitious aim to make her power and authority absolute over all; and for Constantine's purposes it was essential that the church should be a unit. These two considerations combined to produce results both immediate and remote, that proved a curse to the time then present and to ages to follow. The immediate result was that Constantine had no sooner compassed the destruction of Licinius in A.D. 323, than he issued an edict against the Novatians, Valentinians, Marcionites, Paulians, Cataphrygians, and "all who devised and supported heresies by means of private assemblies," denouncing them and their heresies, and commanding them all to enter the Catholic Church. The edict runs as follows: —

"Victor Constantinus Maximus Augustus, to the heretics: Understand now, by this present statute, ye Novatians, Valentinians, Marcionites, Paulians, ye who are called Cataphrygians, and all ye who devise and support heresies by means of your private assemblies, with what a tissue of falsehood and vanity, with what destructive and venomous errors, your doctrines are inseparably interwoven; so that through you the healthy soul is stricken with disease, and the living becomes the prey of everlasting death. Ye haters and enemies of truth and life, in league with destruction: All your counsels are opposed to the truth, but familiar with deeds of baseness; fit subjects for the fabulous follies of the stage: and by these ye frame falsehoods, oppress the innocent, and withhold the light from them that believe. Ever trespassing under the mask of godliness, ye fill all things with defilement: ye pierce the pure and guileless conscience with deadly wounds, while ye withdraw, one may almost say, the very light of day from the eyes of men. But why should I particularize, when to speak of your criminality as it deserves, demands more time and leisure than I can give? For so long and unmeasured is the catalogue of your offenses, so hateful and altogether atrocious are they, that a single day would not suffice to recount them all. And indeed it is well to turn one's ears and eyes from such a subject, lest by a description of each particular evil, the pure sincerity and freshness of one's own faith be impaired. Why then do I still bear with such abounding evil; especially since this protracted clemency is the cause that some who were sound are become tainted with this pestilent disease? Why not at once strike, as it were, at the root of so great a mischief by a public manifestation of displeasure? "Forasmuch, then, as it is no longer possible to bear with your pernicious errors, we give warning by this present statute that none of you henceforth presume to assemble yourselves together. We have directed, accordingly, that you be deprived of all the houses in which you are accustomed to hold your assemblies: and our care in this respect extends so far as to forbid the holding of your superstitious and senseless meetings, not in public merely, but in any private house or place whatsoever. Let those of you, therefore, who are desirous of embracing the true and pure religion, take the far better course of entering the Catholic Church, and uniting with it in holy fellowship, whereby you will be enabled to arrive at the knowledge of the truth. In any case, the delusions of your perverted understandings must entirely cease to mingle with and mar the felicity of our present times; I mean the impious and wretched doublemindedness of heretics and schismatics. For it is an object worthy of that prosperity which we enjoy through the favor of God, to endeavor to bring back those who in time past were living in the hope of future blessing, from all irregularity and error, to the right path, from darkness to light, from vanity to truth, from death to salvation. And in order that this remedy may be applied with effectual power, we have commanded (as before said), that you be positively deprived of every gathering point for your superstitious meetings; I mean all the houses of prayer (if such be worthy of the name) which belong to heretics, and that these be made over without delay to the Catholic Church; that any other places be confiscated to the public service, and no facility whatever be left for any future gathering; in order that from this day forward none of your unlawful assemblies may presume to appear in any public or private place. Let this edict be made public."
 ( Eusebius's- "Life of Constantine," book 3, chaps. 64, 65. )


Some of the penal regulations of this edict "were copied from the edicts of Diocletian; and this method of conversion was applauded by the same bishops who had felt the hand of oppression, and had pleaded for the rights of humanity." ( Gibbon- "Decline and Fall," chap. 21, par. 1. )

For more examination of Church and state relations in history recorded by Gibbon, the following link is recommended.

https://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/index.php?topic=113379.0
 

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CHAP. VI.—DO NOT ACCEPT JUDAISM.

If any one preaches the one God of the law and the prophets, but denies Christ to be the Son of God, he is a liar, even as also is his father the devil, and is a Jew falsely so called, being possessed of mere carnal circumcision. If any one confesses Christ Jesus the Lord, but denies the God of the law and of the prophets, saying that the Father of Christ is not the Maker of heaven and earth, he has not continued in the truth any more than his father the devil, and is a disciple of Simon Magus, not of the Holy Spirit. If any one says there is one God, and also confesses Christ Jesus, but thinks the Lord to be a mere man, and not the only-begotten God, and Wisdom, and the Word of God, and deems Him to consist merely of a soul and body, such an one is a serpent, that preaches deceit and error for the destruction of men. And such a man is poor in understanding, even as by name he is an Ebionite. If any one confesses the truths mentioned, but calls lawful wedlock, and the procreation of children, destruction and pollution, or deems certain kinds of food abominable, such an one has the apostate dragon dwelling within him. If any one confesses the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost, and praises the creation, but calls the incarnation merely an appearance, and is ashamed of the passion, such an one has denied the faith, not less than the Jews who killed Christ. If any one confesses these things, and that God the Word did dwell in a human body, being within it as the Word, even as the soul also is in the body, because it was God that inhabited it, and not a human soul, but affirms that unlawful unions are a good thing, and places the highest happiness in pleasure, as does the man who is falsely called a Nicolaitan, this person can neither be a lover of God, nor a lover of Christ, but is a corrupter of his own flesh, and therefore void of the Holy Spirit, and a stranger to Christ. All such persons are but monuments and sepulchres of the dead, upon which are written only the names of dead men. Flee, therefore, the wicked devices and snares of the spirit which now worketh in the children of this world, lest at any time being overcome, ye grow weak in your love. But be ye all joined together with an undivided heart and a willing mind, "being of one accord and of one judgment," being always of the same opinion about the same things, both when you are at ease and in danger, both in sorrow and in joy. I thank God, through Jesus Christ, that I have a good conscience in respect to you, and that no one has it in his power to boast, either privately or publicly, that I have burdened any one either in much or in little. And I wish for all among whom I have spoken, that they may not possess that for a testimony against them.


Ignatius of Antioch, "The Epistle of Ignatius to the Philadelphians," in The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus, ed. Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson, and A. Cleveland Coxe, vol. 1, The Ante-Nicene Fathers (Buffalo, NY: Christian Literature Company, 1885), 82 & 83.

Interesting. Two extra biblical specific condemnations placed right in the middle of scripturally supported truths and or condemnations. While Holy Scripture does of course command, approve of, and therefore also support marriage and procreation, it does not actually address anyone who declared such destruction and pollution. As though some did, and such needed to be specifically addressed. After which Ignatius connects the condemnation of any who would deem certain kinds of food as abominable, in the same sentence. Deceptively I do believe, tying that which would certainly be acceptable to condemn according to scripture, with that of a new and questionable condemnation concerning Old Covenant laws spoken to Moses from God Himself concerning Israel. As God Himself declared certain foods to be abominable for Israel to eat. Hmmmm? Not just any condemnation, but declaring that any who would do so had the apostate dragon himself dwelling within them.

Lev 11:1  And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,....................................................... .............................. 10  And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: 11  They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. 12  Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you. 13  And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, 14  And the vulture, and the kite after his kind; 15  Every raven after his kind; 16  And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, 17  And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl, 18  And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle, 19  And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat. 20  All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you..........................................................................................41  And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an abomination; it shall not be eaten. 42  Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination. 43  Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby. 44  For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 45  For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy. 46  This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth: 47  To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

Some people think that the New Testament teaches that all may now eat anything. Some disagree. The Jews of course still abide by the above, as well as some professed Christians. Do they all now have the apostate dragon within them because of what they choose to eat or not according to the above dietary law of God for Israel because Ignatius said so? Does Holy Scripture teach any such thing anywhere? To the contrary -

Rom 14:19  Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. 20  For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence. 21  It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. 22  Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. 23  And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Who is Ignatius to contradict the words of the Apostle Paul concerning the convictions of others regarding what they will eat or not, and or why? Judging those who might still believe and or think it wise not to eat those things God Himself declared to be unclean and an abomination for the Israelites to eat? Not just judging but condemning them as apostates of the dragon and or devil himself. No sir, this teaching of Ignatius is not scriptural at all, along with others I have already addressed.

Amo, whatever stories that I mentioned are ABSOLUTELY true.
These stories are about our Christian Saints, Martyrs, our brave kings, knights & soldiers.
And these TRUE stories are literally written in the blood of our Christian Warriors,
these stories are literally written by the tears of our helpless people.
These stories are about the struggles of our Christian people.
And yet despite these painful moments,
God never left their side.

He gives strength to the weary
and increases the power of the weak.
Isaiah 40:29

That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
2 Corinthians 12:10

The Lord is my strength and my shield;
my heart trusts in him, and he helps me.
My heart leaps for joy,
and with my song I praise him.
Psalm 28:7

But I will sing of your strength,
in the morning I will sing of your love;
for you are my fortress,
my refuge in times of trouble.
Psalm 59:16 
 
Ah, Sovereign Lord, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm. Nothing is too hard for you.
Jeremiah 32:17   

The Sovereign Lord is my strength;
he makes my feet like the feet of a deer,
he enables me to tread on the heights.
Habakkuk 3:19

And that is why Christendom still survives.
And since Our God made this world & He is the TRUE living God for us believers,
so Christianity, Christians & the Jews will always be surrounded by His sacred love, mercy & compassion,
Amen, Amen & Amen.

What I pray for is that our Christian people  should remain UNITED.
And that TOGETHER, they may stand up for each other,
against the storms & tides that every era brings.
And that's what God wishes.
Amen.

So do not fear, for I am with you;
do not be dismayed, for I am your God.
I will strengthen you and help you;
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.
Isaiah 41:10   

But those who hope in the Lord
will renew their strength.
They will soar on wings like eagles;
they will run and not grow weary,
they will walk and not be faint.
Isaiah 40:31   

But the Lord is faithful, and he will strengthen you and protect you from the evil one.
2 Thessalonians 3:3
   
Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be courageous; be strong.
1 Corinthians 16:13

Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power.
Ephesians 6:10

Yours, Lord, is the greatness and the power
and the glory and the majesty and the splendor,
for everything in heaven and earth is yours.
Yours, Lord, is the kingdom;
you are exalted as head over all.
1 Chronicles 29:11
Amen.

You have a right to continue to paint the pages of history as you please of course. Nevertheless, leaving out numerous facts which would greatly change that picture, is of course highly suggestive of a censored history unto a false picture. There is no such thing as authentic "Christian" unity via compulsory "Christianity". There is no authentic form of compulsory "Christianity" at all. All such is apostate "Christianity" which has replaced the power of the Holy Spirit of God unto conviction, repentance, and conversion, with the power of the state unto compulsive "Christianity". To leave out the long trail of blood tied directly to mandated compulsory "Christianity" throughout history, is to paint a false revised version of history. Not to mention the danger of repeating such history, largely through ignorance of just how ugly that history really was.

Nevertheless again, this is wandering off the subject of this topic. I will likely create another to more fully address this subject when time affords.   

Amo, every person has been given a free will by God, so many believe in whatever they think is correct.
But there's a difference in believing what is truly correct & what is fabricated by many, but said so many times, that it seems like the truth.
Many a time its been seen that those who stood up to save others, were the ones who were needlessly blamed rather than actually seeing who was at fault!!!
So those who actually stood up to defend, save & protect Christendom are being blamed rather than those who actually need to be blamed.

The Holy Bible says that God sees the true intentions of the heart.
So when God's people weep or wept in the past eras,
didn't God see that?
Was that a lie?
When innocent people were forced to change their religion (Christianity),
was that a lie?
When believers were p*rsecuted,
was that a lie?
Those true stories were not lies. Not at all.
The people who suffered were our own Christian people.

The vine is dried up
and the fig tree is withered;
the pomegranate, the palm and the apple tree—
all the trees of the field—are dried up.
Surely the people's joy
is withered away.
Joel 1:12

The righteous cry out, and the Lord hears them;
he delivers them from all their troubles.
The Lord is close to the brokenhearted
and saves those who are crushed in spirit.
Psalm 34:17-18


And what they went through was pathetic & cannot even be written in plain words.
The Christian women deserved respect & protection,
& the Christian men deserved safety.
And in many places, in order to save Christendom,
the kings & Christian Warriors had to fight.
Every story about which I wrote was TRUE.
May The Holy Spirit which lives insides the hearts of people, make it clear.

The suffering, the fear, the emotional & physical pain, the hardships, the hunger, the desperation ....words will never be enough to write about what our Christian people went through.
And in such times, Christians from all denominations united to save & protect Christendom.
And this is TRUE UNITY,
not some fake unity.
Those kings or knights, martyrs or Saints who sacrificed their lives did so, to protect & save those helpless people, behind them.
They really deserve reverence.

Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.
John 15:13

The earth is not Heaven. In Heaven there will be bliss, joy & most importantly PEACE.
There will be no more suffering of any kind.

And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Look! God's dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 'He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
Revelation 21:3-4

'Never again will they hunger;
never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat down on them,'
nor any scorching heat.
For the Lamb at the center of the throne
will be their shepherd;
'he will lead them to springs of living water.'
'And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.'
Revelation 7:16-17


But the earth is not Heaven.
Here there are REAL hardships. There are tears. There is suffering.
On the earth, in the past eras,  there were those, who lived to make others suffer & yet shouted the loudest about how they were suffering. Even God sees the truth about how such people made others suffer & yet called themselves honest.

The world is not a fairytale but eras where there has been immense pain & suffering of both our Jewish & Christian people.
And God was never oblivious to this suffering.
Rather helped His people to swim against the tides,
against the swift flow,
against the struggles of those times,
against all odds.
That's how God blessed His people.
By giving them the courage, the inner strength, determination, resilience, fortitude & the physical strength to stand up for those who had none to stand up for them,
to defend our helpless Christian women & those who were ill or old.
Those times were not easy. They were the times of tears, struggles, pers*cution & extreme levels of trials.
And the today, that people see is built on the struggles of yesterday.


You had written earlier about a Saint & about what he had written before his martyrdom.
That's why I had said that in every religious group there are good people as well.
And these Saints were also the ones, who tried to unite the Christians & that was REALLY TRUE UNITY.

I've been reading on the internet, that there are many who give labels to those who truly stood up for Christendom & others who support them.
It's easy to give labels by others, just to distract people or simply because they are biased.
But the truth is like light, which shatters darkness.
And there were times when supernatural miracles of God took place,
to help the good Christian Warriors of all denominations who fought together & they won.
Even God was on their side.
And when God was on their side, it's enough for all God obeying Christians to believe,
Amen.

Those who speak or write the truth, have the inner strength of many,
because their hearts are pure,
Amen.

1 Corinthians 15:57
But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
John 16:33
I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world."

2 Corinthians 2:14
But thanks be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumphal procession, and through us spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere.

1 John 5:4
For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

Romans 8:31
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
Romans 8:28
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
Amen.

Quote from: pppp on Fri Oct 16, 2026 - 08:36:51Amo, every person has been given a free will by God, so many believe in whatever they think is correct.
But there's a difference in believing what is truly correct & what is fabricated by many, but said so many times, that it seems like the truth.
Many a time its been seen that those who stood up to save others, were the ones who were needlessly blamed rather than actually seeing who was at fault!!!
So those who actually stood up to defend, save & protect Christendom are being blamed rather than those who actually need to be blamed.

The Holy Bible says that God sees the true intentions of the heart.
So when God's people weep or wept in the past eras,
didn't God see that?
Was that a lie?
When innocent people were forced to change their religion (Christianity),
was that a lie?
When believers were p*rsecuted,
was that a lie?
Those true stories were not lies. Not at all.
The people who suffered were our own Christian people.

The vine is dried up
and the fig tree is withered;
the pomegranate, the palm and the apple tree—
all the trees of the field—are dried up.
Surely the people's joy
is withered away.
Joel 1:12

The righteous cry out, and the Lord hears them;
he delivers them from all their troubles.
The Lord is close to the brokenhearted
and saves those who are crushed in spirit.
Psalm 34:17-18


And what they went through was pathetic & cannot even be written in plain words.
The Christian women deserved respect & protection,
& the Christian men deserved safety.
And in many places, in order to save Christendom,
the kings & Christian Warriors had to fight.
Every story about which I wrote was TRUE.
May The Holy Spirit which lives insides the hearts of people, make it clear.

The suffering, the fear, the emotional & physical pain, the hardships, the hunger, the desperation ....words will never be enough to write about what our Christian people went through.
And in such times, Christians from all denominations united to save & protect Christendom.
And this is TRUE UNITY,
not some fake unity.
Those kings or knights, martyrs or Saints who sacrificed their lives did so, to protect & save those helpless people, behind them.
They really deserve reverence.

Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.
John 15:13

The earth is not Heaven. In Heaven there will be bliss, joy & most importantly PEACE.
There will be no more suffering of any kind.

And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Look! God's dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 'He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
Revelation 21:3-4

'Never again will they hunger;
never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat down on them,'
nor any scorching heat.
For the Lamb at the center of the throne
will be their shepherd;
'he will lead them to springs of living water.'
'And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.'
Revelation 7:16-17


But the earth is not Heaven.
Here there are REAL hardships. There are tears. There is suffering.
On the earth, in the past eras,  there were those, who lived to make others suffer & yet shouted the loudest about how they were suffering. Even God sees the truth about how such people made others suffer & yet called themselves honest.

The world is not a fairytale but eras where there has been immense pain & suffering of both our Jewish & Christian people.
And God was never oblivious to this suffering.
Rather helped His people to swim against the tides,
against the swift flow,
against the struggles of those times,
against all odds.
That's how God blessed His people.
By giving them the courage, the inner strength, determination, resilience, fortitude & the physical strength to stand up for those who had none to stand up for them,
to defend our helpless Christian women & those who were ill or old.
Those times were not easy. They were the times of tears, struggles, pers*cution & extreme levels of trials.
And the today, that people see is built on the struggles of yesterday.


You had written earlier about a Saint & about what he had written before his martyrdom.
That's why I had said that in every religious group there are good people as well.
And these Saints were also the ones, who tried to unite the Christians & that was REALLY TRUE UNITY.

I've been reading on the internet, that there are many who give labels to those who truly stood up for Christendom & others who support them.
It's easy to give labels by others, just to distract people or simply because they are biased.
But the truth is like light, which shatters darkness.
And there were times when supernatural miracles of God took place,
to help the good Christian Warriors of all denominations who fought together & they won.
Even God was on their side.
And when God was on their side, it's enough for all God obeying Christians to believe,
Amen.

Those who speak or write the truth, have the inner strength of many,
because their hearts are pure,
Amen.

1 Corinthians 15:57
But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
John 16:33
I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world."

2 Corinthians 2:14
But thanks be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumphal procession, and through us spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere.

1 John 5:4
For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

Romans 8:31
What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
Romans 8:28
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
Amen.

No sir, the God of heaven did not then need, does not now need, nor ever will need the armies and governments of earth to sustain his cause and gospel. He sent His only begotten Son to save the world, who never lifted a sword or encouraged any of His followers to do so either, in the promulgation, building, and sustenance of His kingdom on earth. To the contrary He conquered the evil one himself by the offering of His own life, a ransom for humanity in the spiritual warfare His own are called to battle. Declaring that His kingdom was not of this world, and therefore would His own not fight literal earthly wars to conquer as the evil one and his minions have and always do. By force.

Nor did His apostles or disciples ever resort to such earthly warfare in spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ, the establishment of the spiritual kingdom of God upon earth. To the contrary, they laid down their lives as seed planted in the ground unto a plentiful harvest. They conquered the most powerful empire on earth, the Roman Empire, by such spiritual warfare without ever lifting the literal sword unto bloodshed in the name of Christ Jesus our Lord. The apostles themselves being accused of turning the world upside down, without ever lifting the sword. Because they fought the real fight for the minds, hearts, and souls of all by way of the convicting power of the Holy Spirit of God unto conversion into the spiritual kingdom of God on earth. Which Christ Jesus our Lord fought and won against the evil one, set forth as our example in all things. Including how to fight authentic Christian battle against the enemy of all souls, not the souls of our fallen brothers and sisters themselves. Who like each one of us, are in desperate need of salvation from the cunning sophistries of the evil one himself, unto the destruction of us all.

You compound authentic historical battles of self defense by predominantly Christian nations and peoples, with apostate Christianity's  use of government and military force of mandated or forced compliance to professed Christian institutions of the past. Which institutions also persecuted, imprisoned, tortured, and murdered millions of other professed Christians throughout history. Real history concerning real abuse, persecution, and murder in the name of Christ Jesus our Lord. Deny what you will, the records are there, and it will all come out in the laundry in the end. I suspect that you defend your one sided revisionist history, because you yourself are of a denomination heavily involved in the histories you are denying, referring to that history as lies. Perhaps I am wrong. If you do not mind, what denomination are you of, or over perhaps?

QuoteWe have nothing to fear from the future, save we forget the lessons we have learned from the past.

Some people forget the past and then unfortunately repeat the errors of it. Others deliberately choose to ignore or deny the past, with the ungodly intention apparently, of repeating the very things humanity overwhelmingly rejected during it. And for very good reasons. The former are obviously ignorant. The latter are obviously evil. I would not want to be among the latter in the day of judgment, would you? It seems there is a need for another topic to address our differences regarding, let's say the proper relations between church and state, as the vast majority of all persecutions by professed Christians in the past were facilitated by a state or government which backed said professed Christins up. You know, the history you denied and referred to as lies in the quoted post above.

I will put this post in that topic as well, as the OP.

Amo, you, have misunderstood my posts, I think.
In some of my previous posts, I simply mentioned about the trials, hardships & the p*rsecution of Christians in the past eras,  and
about how, many of the Saints, Martyrs, Kings & Knights,
defended Christendom.
Beloved Christ also sees what His people are writing about.

What you are writing about is your part of some other stories, you may have read.
I'm not writing about the stories you are mentioning.

I was only mentioning about the trials & suffering of our Christian people & in other stories, read  even about the trials of the Jewish people.
And these stories are different from the stories you're mentioning.
And acc., to these true stories, about the hardships Christians, were going through, if many of the Saints, Martyrs, Kings & Knights,
defended Christendom, it was with love for Christ & Christians, in their hearts,
& why would Christ go against them?
Christ sees honest hearts with true intentions.

The TRUE stories which I wrote about in some of my posts seem to be quite different from yours.
In the stories that I read, about many of the Saints, Martyrs, Kings & Knights, who
defended Christendom, it was clearly stated that they stood up to defend the light, the believers & Christianity,
& there was absolutely NOTHING given,
about them,
doing anything evil against other Christians.
And, why would they do that?
Why would they hurt the very same Christians for whom they fought & many sacrificed their lives.
Those who stood up defending the honour & dignity of Christians, would NEVER EVER harm them.
These Christian Warriors were good people.

The stories that you keep mentioning seem to be TOTALLY different from the ones I've read & posted about.


Christ is a God of love, mercy, forgiveness, compassion & many other true qualities,
but Christ in His compassion also sees the trials, hardships & tears of His beloved people.
When Christ saved humanity, why did He do that?
Because He loved humanity.


In many of the true stories in which Saints & Christian Warriors defended Christendom,
it was stated that many many Christians prayed to Saints & through their intercession, Christ granted victory to the Christians.
The stories that I've read are TOTALLY DIFFERENT from your stories.

And I've always mentioned that there should be Christian unity
& even earlier, in the stories that I read,
Christians of all denominations came together to defend Christendom.
And that is what I had mentioned.

Your point of view is based on the stories you're mentioning
& my point of view is TOTALLY DIFFERENT because the stories that I've mentioned are also different from yours.
That is why I had written this earlier, concerning the stories I had read about .... ''There's a difference in believing what is truly correct & what is fabricated by many, but said so many times, that it seems like the truth.
Many a time its been seen that those who stood up to save others, were the ones who were needlessly blamed rather than actually seeing who was at fault!!!
So those who actually stood up to defend, save & protect Christendom are being blamed rather than those who actually need to be blamed.''

The posts which I wrote about are telling about our Christian people suffering in all eras,
& the martyrdom of our Christian warriors.
And the unity of our Christians of all denominations,
My prayer to Christ,
is that He may continue to unite our Christians & Jews in the world,
& save & protect our people,
Amen.

Quote from: pppp on Yesterday at 15:39:57Amo, you, have misunderstood my posts, I think.
In some of my previous posts, I simply mentioned about the trials, hardships & the p*rsecution of Christians in the past eras,  and
about how, many of the Saints, Martyrs, Kings & Knights,
defended Christendom.
Beloved Christ also sees what His people are writing about.

What you are writing about is your part of some other stories, you may have read.
I'm not writing about the stories you are mentioning.

I was only mentioning about the trials & suffering of our Christian people & in other stories, read  even about the trials of the Jewish people.
And these stories are different from the stories you're mentioning.
And acc., to these true stories, about the hardships Christians, were going through, if many of the Saints, Martyrs, Kings & Knights,
defended Christendom, it was with love for Christ & Christians, in their hearts,
& why would Christ go against them?
Christ sees honest hearts with true intentions.

The TRUE stories which I wrote about in some of my posts seem to be quite different from yours.
In the stories that I read, about many of the Saints, Martyrs, Kings & Knights, who
defended Christendom, it was clearly stated that they stood up to defend the light, the believers & Christianity,
& there was absolutely NOTHING given,
about them,
doing anything evil against other Christians.
And, why would they do that?
Why would they hurt the very same Christians for whom they fought & many sacrificed their lives.
Those who stood up defending the honour & dignity of Christians, would NEVER EVER harm them.
These Christian Warriors were good people.

The stories that you keep mentioning seem to be TOTALLY different from the ones I've read & posted about.


Christ is a God of love, mercy, forgiveness, compassion & many other true qualities,
but Christ in His compassion also sees the trials, hardships & tears of His beloved people.
When Christ saved humanity, why did He do that?
Because He loved humanity.


In many of the true stories in which Saints & Christian Warriors defended Christendom,
it was stated that many many Christians prayed to Saints & through their intercession, Christ granted victory to the Christians.
The stories that I've read are TOTALLY DIFFERENT from your stories.

And I've always mentioned that there should be Christian unity
& even earlier, in the stories that I read,
Christians of all denominations came together to defend Christendom.
And that is what I had mentioned.

Your point of view is based on the stories you're mentioning
& my point of view is TOTALLY DIFFERENT because the stories that I've mentioned are also different from yours.
That is why I had written this earlier, concerning the stories I had read about .... ''There's a difference in believing what is truly correct & what is fabricated by many, but said so many times, that it seems like the truth.
Many a time its been seen that those who stood up to save others, were the ones who were needlessly blamed rather than actually seeing who was at fault!!!
So those who actually stood up to defend, save & protect Christendom are being blamed rather than those who actually need to be blamed.''

The posts which I wrote about are telling about our Christian people suffering in all eras,
& the martyrdom of our Christian warriors.
And the unity of our Christians of all denominations,
My prayer to Christ,
is that He may continue to unite our Christians & Jews in the world,
& save & protect our people,
Amen.

Hmmmm? What happened to the new topic I started to further address this issue?

You said the following -

QuoteAmo, every person has been given a free will by God, so many believe in whatever they think is correct.
But there's a difference in believing what is truly correct & what is fabricated by many, but said so many times, that it seems like the truth.
Many a time its been seen that those who stood up to save others, were the ones who were needlessly blamed rather than actually seeing who was at fault!!!
So those who actually stood up to defend, save & protect Christendom are being blamed rather than those who actually need to be blamed.

So who are you saying fabricated stories which they repeated over and over, unto seeming like the truth. Who are you saying stood up to protect someone else, but was needlessly or wrongly blamed, instead of who was actually at fault? Who are you saying those are, who stood up to defend and protect Christendom, that are being blamed rather than those who actually need to be blamed. Perhaps such vague statements are the cause of misunderstanding.

How do you propose that professed Christians with very different beliefs unite, and with Jews as well who do not even accept Jesus Christ as the Messiah? Apart from the form of unification these United States represents, in toleration of all by maintaining a healthy separation of church and state. Keeping any religion, including secular humanism from using the state to favor their own selves, or persecute others.

Apart from this, where does Holy Scripture admonished professed Christians of very different faiths, to unite with the Jews as well, to protect and deliver Christ's own. To the contrary, Holy Scripture predicts the persecution of Christ's own throughout history until God Himself delivers them at His second coming. After the world itself has united in a false system of unity of many professed Christians themselves with all religions of the world as well, whom God will have to deliver His people from. There is no biblical scenario presented where all professed Christians and Jews unite to fight a literal battle with the enemies of God, and deliver themsleves thereby, unto what? Heaven on earth? Please do share this biblical vision with us, if such exists.

Nevertheless, what did happen to the new topic I created to address these things, instead of taking this one over with it? 

Quote from: pppp on Tue Sep 15, 2026 - 11:40:24Thank you Wycliffes_Shillelagh for your reply.

The Israel of today is the same as the Israel of the Bible.
The Children of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob by blood.

Except... that isn't how it is in the Bible.  If that were true, then Ishmael and Esau and Midian would all be included.

The Bible requires belief AND water.

Quote from: pppp on Tue Sep 15, 2026 - 11:40:24The Holy Bible also mentions that ultimately all those who believe in Christ will also become the children of Abraham spiritually.

And so Israel will include  the present day Israel who are Children of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob by blood & the children of Abraham spiritually.

And so God loves both the Christians & the children of Abraham by blood.
And to understand this, one first needs to understand the nature of God.
The Holy Bible clearly teaches believers that God's promises are not like shifting shadows.
When He makes a promise, He already knows that He will not take them back.

And God already knows the future.
He made the beginning already knowing the future & before the future comes, He made the beginning.
This shows that when God promises, He knows exactly what He's doing.
And God doesn't do favouritism.
In whatever He does, He has a divine purpose.

So when He chose Israel, He already knew why He had chosen them above others.
He knew that through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob & Leah, would come Judah & through him, Our Blessed Saviour Jesus Christ.
The first time, Christ came, He came through Israel,
the children of Abraham through blood.
And the Second time again, Christ will come through the children of Abraham through blood.
And that's given in the Holy Bible.

That is why Scripture says, that after Satan along with his two evil accomplices comes to persecute the Jews,
Christ will come & throw the unholy trio in the abyss & save the Jewish community.
(Revelation 13, Revelation 20;7-10,)
And after seeing this, the Jewish people will begin to believe in the Blessed Messiah.
And so they along with the Christians, will also enter Heaven with an eternal life.
And so Israel will contain both the Jews who are children of Abraham through blood & the Christians who will believe in Our Lord Christ.
Thus the prophecy of God will be fulfilled according to Scripture.
Amen.
Ecclesiastes 3:1: "There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens."

Isaiah 60:22: "When the time is right, I, the Lord, will make it happen."

Habakkuk 2:3: "For the revelation awaits an appointed time; it speaks of the end and will not prove false. Though it linger, wait for it; it will certainly come and will not delay."


God's everlasting love for Israel (the children of Abraham through blood & the present & future Israel)

Deuteronomy 14:2 – "For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. Out of all the peoples on the face of the earth, the Lord has chosen you to be his treasured possession."

Deuteronomy 7:7-8 – "The Lord did not set his affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. But it was because the Lord loved you and kept the oath he swore to your ancestors." God chose them out of His own love and faithfulness.

Genesis 12:3 – "I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you." God promises protection and blessing to the descendants of Abraham.

Romans 11:1-2 – "Did God reject his people? By no means!... God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew."
Romans 11:29 – "For God's gifts and his call are irrevocable."

Jeremiah 31:35-37 tells about God's commitment to the nation of Israel.
God compares His commitment to the nation of Israel just like the fixed laws the sun, moon, and stars,
stating that only if these natural laws ever fail will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before Him.

And since these laws will never fail, so God's love for the nation of Israel (the children of Abraham through blood), will remain forever.
Amen.

What you're calling "blood..." the Bible doesn't call it that.  In the Bible, blood is for a certain type of covenant, and it's the kind that bonds people together as brothers.

The covenant that bonds people together as father-son is one of water, and that can be natural or via adoption.

But water is not enough by itself.  You need belief AND water.

Let's say that modern Israel has the 'water' part on lock.  Well, so did Ishmael and Edom and Midian.  The belief part is important.

Amo, you asked about my denomination.
I belong to Christ.
He is our Heavenly Father.
And I respect every denomination & Churches associated with them.
In every Church, Christ is the Head.
And in every Church, The Holy Bible is the same,
And the Fragrance of the sacred love of Christ is the same.
And in every Church, the peace & joy of Christ is present.
And in every denomination there are good Christian people.

And Christ knows the hearts & souls of every believer, irrespective of their denomination.
And I respect Saints because they were good Christians, who helped believers, stood up for them, healed & performed miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit.
And even in the future, people who love God, will respect, God's chosen elect (Saints) or any one else whom God will choose (maybe someone like Moses, Prophet Elijah or Elisha.

Mother Mary is considered a Saint in a particular denomination,
but  that should not make any difference to believers.
Mother Mary was chosen by God Himself to be the Mother of Our loving Saviour Jesus Christ. And Saint Joseph was chosen to be the Father of Blessed Christ.
So, every believer who loves Christ, must love & respect Mother Mary & Saint Joseph.

Even Apostle Paul is considered a Saint.
Even Apostle Peter was venerated as a Saint.
But believers who love God will still respect both Apostle Peter & Paul.
Moses was Jewish, but believers in God, respect him as well.
Prophets Daniel was Jewish, & Elijah & Elisha were from Israel,
But believers who love God will still respect all the above four.

Because they were believers in God, just as Christians are.
And both the Jews & Christians have ideological similarities because both are the children of Father God.

So in all Christian denominations, there are good people.
And God loves both the Jews & Christians,
Christ's love is like a fragrance which surrounds every believer,
Christ is like a flower which grows in the center of the garden & which is the most beautiful,
Christ is like the light ....just like the sun during the day & the moon at night,
Christ is love ...a love which is so deep that it cannot be measured,
& those who believe in Christ, have found life, they have found peace, they have found joy, in fact they have everything & they become so close to Christ, that nothing remains between them & Christ,
no distance at all, just pure sacred love & reverence for Beloved Christ,
Amen.

Quote from: pppp on Today at 10:48:43Amo, you asked about my denomination.
I belong to Christ.
He is our Heavenly Father.
And I respect every denomination & Churches associated with them.
In every Church, Christ is the Head.
And in every Church, The Holy Bible is the same,
And the Fragrance of the sacred love of Christ is the same.
And in every Church, the peace & joy of Christ is present.
And in every denomination there are good Christian people.

And Christ knows the hearts & souls of every believer, irrespective of their denomination.
And I respect Saints because they were good Christians, who helped believers, stood up for them, healed & performed miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit.
And even in the future, people who love God, will respect, God's chosen elect (Saints) or any one else whom God will choose (maybe someone like Moses, Prophet Elijah or Elisha.

Mother Mary is considered a Saint in a particular denomination,
but  that should not make any difference to believers.
Mother Mary was chosen by God Himself to be the Mother of Our loving Saviour Jesus Christ. And Saint Joseph was chosen to be the Father of Blessed Christ.
So, every believer who loves Christ, must love & respect Mother Mary & Saint Joseph.

Even Apostle Paul is considered a Saint.
Even Apostle Peter was venerated as a Saint.
But believers who love God will still respect both Apostle Peter & Paul.
Moses was Jewish, but believers in God, respect him as well.
Prophets Daniel was Jewish, & Elijah & Elisha were from Israel,
But believers who love God will still respect all the above four.

Because they were believers in God, just as Christians are.
And both the Jews & Christians have ideological similarities because both are the children of Father God.

So in all Christian denominations, there are good people.
And God loves both the Jews & Christians,
Christ's love is like a fragrance which surrounds every believer,
Christ is like a flower which grows in the center of the garden & which is the most beautiful,
Christ is like the light ....just like the sun during the day & the moon at night,
Christ is love ...a love which is so deep that it cannot be measured,
& those who believe in Christ, have found life, they have found peace, they have found joy, in fact they have everything & they become so close to Christ, that nothing remains between them & Christ,
no distance at all, just pure sacred love & reverence for Beloved Christ,
Amen.

We will just leave it at that, since this topic is not about our differences, but rather the writings of the suggested Church Fathers and their adherence to Holy Scripture or not. And apparently the powers that be on these boards in a rare show of censorship, do not want a topic focussed upon the evils or not, of a combined church and state.

The only issue I will address in your above assertions, is that of Mary and Joseph being the mother and father of Christ Jesus our Lord. Mary was the mother of the man Jesus Christ of course, but certainly not the mother of Him who is from everlasting unto everlasting. Him who is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. Such a declaration would border upon blaspheme, if not simply represent the same. We all know who the Father of Jesus was of course, as Holy Scripture is very clear upon this point. Joseph was the earthly adoptive father of the man Jesus Christ, not the eternal Holy Spirit of God, or God the Father of Jesus Christ. And now our Father as well, in and through the precious blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Thank you Amo, for your reply.

Respecting Saints specially Mother Mary & Saint Joseph is NOT  blasphemy.
God is our Heavenly Father,
& Christ, is God's chosen Son & God Himself.

Saint Joseph, who was the earthly Father of Christ,
was also chosen by Father God Himself to be Christ's earthly Father.
Just like Beloved Mother Mary was chosen to be Christ's Mother.

And Mother Mary is the Queen of Heaven.
Revelation 12;1
12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

Quote from: pppp on Today at 12:05:30Thank you Amo, for your reply.

Respecting Saints specially Mother Mary & Saint Joseph is NOT  blasphemy.
God is our Heavenly Father,
& Christ, is God's chosen Son & God Himself.

Saint Joseph, who was the earthly Father of Christ,
was also chosen by Father God Himself to be Christ's earthly Father.
Just like Beloved Mother Mary was chosen to be Christ's Mother.

And Mother Mary is the Queen of Heaven.
Revelation 12;1
12 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

The bible says nowhere that Mary is queen of heaven, not even in the verse you quoted as supposed scriptural proof of such. Prophetic women depict faithful or unfaithful churches we know. As Holy Scripture depicts both Israel and Christianity as either or in a state of either purity or apostasy. Revelation 17 identifies a church that considers itself a queen.

Rev 18:1  And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2  And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3  For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5  For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. 6  Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. 7  How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 8  Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. 9  And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 10  Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. 11  And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: 12  The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, 13  And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. 14  And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. 15  The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, 16  And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! 17  For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, 18  And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! 19  And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. 20  Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her. 21  And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. 22  And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; 23  And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24  And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Israel had an idolatrous problem concerning a queen of heaven as well. Which the Lord punished them for. These are the queens or queens of heaven Holy Scripture addresses. As for the queen you speak of, she is entirely extra biblical.

Jer 7:14  Therefore will I do unto this house, which is called by my name, wherein ye trust, and unto the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I have done to Shiloh. 15  And I will cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brethren, even the whole seed of Ephraim. 16  Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee. 17  Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18  The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. 19  Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?

Jer 44:15  Then all the men which knew that their wives had burned incense unto other gods, and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying, 16  As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the LORD, we will not hearken unto thee. 17  But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil. 18  But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.  19  And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men? 20  Then Jeremiah said unto all the people, to the men, and to the women, and to all the people which had given him that answer, saying, 21  The incense that ye burned in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, ye, and your fathers, your kings, and your princes, and the people of the land, did not the LORD remember them, and came it not into his mind? 22  So that the LORD could no longer bear, because of the evil of your doings, and because of the abominations which ye have committed; therefore is your land a desolation, and an astonishment, and a curse, without an inhabitant, as at this day. 23  Because ye have burned incense, and because ye have sinned against the LORD, and have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, nor walked in his law, nor in his statutes, nor in his testimonies; therefore this evil is happened unto you, as at this day. 24  Moreover Jeremiah said unto all the people, and to all the women, Hear the word of the LORD, all Judah that are in the land of Egypt: 25  Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows. 26  Therefore hear ye the word of the LORD, all Judah that dwell in the land of Egypt; Behold, I have sworn by my great name, saith the LORD, that my name shall no more be named in the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, The Lord GOD liveth. 27  Behold, I will watch over them for evil, and not for good: and all the men of Judah that are in the land of Egypt shall be consumed by the sword and by the famine, until there be an end of them.

So where does your belief that Mary is now the queen of heaven come from? Is it found among the teachings of the suggested "Church Fathers", or did it originate later?

Mother Mary is the dear Mother of Christ & deserves reverence.
She was humble, obedient to God, highly chosen & had all the virtues in her.

Luke 1:35
And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

Galatians 4:4
But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,
John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.



Revelation 12:1-17
And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. .....And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it. She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, ...

Genesis 3:15
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel."

Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

John 14:6: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."

Matthew 28:18: "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."
Philippians 2:9–11: "Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name..."

To Our Beloved Saviour Christ be the Glory forever & ever,
    

Thank you Wycliffes_Shillelagh for your reply.

The Holy Bible clearly teaches believers that God's covenant was with Abraham, then Issac & after that, Jacob was chosen & after him, his 12 sons were chosen of God.

Genesis 12:1-3
 
New International Version
The Call of Abram
12 The Lord had said to Abram, "Go from your country, your people and your father's household to the land I will show you.

2 "I will make you into a great nation,
    and I will bless you;
I will make your name great,
    and you will be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,...
and all peoples on earth
    will be blessed through you."

Amen.


Psalm 135:4 (NIV)
"For the Lord has chosen Jacob as his own, Israel as his treasured possession."


Isaiah 44:1 (KJV)
"Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:"

Revelation 21:12:
"It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels in charge of the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of the people of Israel."



Jeremiah 31:35-37 states that Father God will not stop choosing Israel unless the sun, moon, stars & the seas fail to follow their fixed orders & that His covenant with Israel is as permanent as the laws of the universe. Which means that God's love for Israel will remain forever & ever,
Amen.

Jeremiah 31:35-37
 
English Standard Version
35 Thus says the Lord,
who gives the sun for light by day
    and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night,
who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—
    the Lord of hosts is his name:
36 "If this fixed order departs
    from before me, declares the Lord,
then shall the offspring of Israel cease
    from being a nation before me forever."

37 Thus says the Lord:
"If the heavens above can be measured,
    and the foundations of the earth below can be explored,
then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel
    for all that they have done,
declares the Lord."