Who Is A Liberal?

seekr · Wed Apr 24, 2002 - 03:36:08

bobby, another quote from Chambers--"We need to take on us the pattern and print of Jesus Christ, not the pattern and print of the world, and immediately when we try to be what Jesus wants us to be, we shall find the truth of what He said, 'they shall cast out your name as evil' (Luke 6:22). The 'camp' to which we belong will do it, not the world. It is easier to remain to our camp than to Jesus, easier to be loyal to our convictions than to Him."

seekr

janine · Wed Apr 24, 2002 - 08:59:52

Think of a bar graph or line with a "conservative" end and a "liberal" end. As you progress along the line one way or another, the people or institutions or ideas you're trying to label get more "liberal' or more "conservative".

But hey, look, out there in the distance, the lines are curving! It's not a straight line after all!

As you progress along the "liberal" portion of the curve, you pass "humanism", "socialism", "communism"; as you trudge out to what you thought was the "conservative" end, you pass "libertariansim" and various ideologies all the way to "fascism".

Somewhere out there between "communism" and "fascism", those curving lines meet! It's not a line after all, it's a circle.

All you get out of relying on labelling for your thinking is a big hopeless circle, a useless cycle. You can move those labels all up and down that line like beads on a string to suit your purposes.

We've been labelled "liberal" often enough. The folks who said so, had things in their lives, jobs or membership in organizations and such, that we thought were extremely "liberal", if it was time to throw labels around. Maybe they allowed their kids to do things we thought were alarmingly "liberal". Today, their kids are not faithful by their own parents' definition, and ours are so far, all credit to God.

It is weird to be called "liberal" (meaning what, morally deficient? gullible? wishy-washy?), when we have a list, such God-honoring things as BobbyV posted, in our hearts.

Ray · Fri Apr 26, 2002 - 03:19:43

:) It is so true. Most people who use the term liberal so freely would not know one if they met it in the street. I will never forget a brother one time saying to me. "I have about decided to find another congregation." I ask him, "why"? His answer was, "Our congregation is getting so liberal." Again, I ask, "What is going on?" His answer was, "They are building an all purpose building, (gym)." The sad part is, he was dead serious; to him that was liberal.
I do trust we will never fail to stand firm for the simple truth of the gospel, God's plan to redeem fallen man by sending His One and Only Son, and never be afraid to tell sinners what Jesus said, the simple "whoever believes and is baptized will be saved." That's not something the church of Christ or any other group got together and voted on, it is just simply what Jesus said. A simple offer to all lost sinners that's too good to be true. When all of us are dead and gone and the generation that follows are gone also, what Jesus said will still stand. All your gyms, methods, strange, wierd, type of ------ You fill in the blank, I can put up with, but when you deny that simple truth, friend we have no fellowship. God bless... Ray

Arkstfan · Fri Apr 26, 2002 - 18:46:12

I once told a person I was liberal Church of Christ.

"Oh conservative but not mean?" was the response I got.

Arkstfan · Fri Apr 26, 2002 - 22:22:34

Funny how where I travel determines whether or not I am a liberal.

Among the Episcopalians, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc I am conservative because I take a more literal view of the Bible and I am not completely on the same page that they are in regard to women's roles, homosexuals and what ever other hot bottom you can come up with.

Among the Churches of Christ I am liberal because I don't see an exact prescribed pattern of worship. I clap, I raise my hands, I support broader roles for women and a loving attitude toward homosexuals and generally look for the grace answer on any other hot button. I DON'T want to restore the first century church in the sense of applying the epistles broadly rather I believe in reading them in context of who they were addressed to and then see how the advice given was an appropriate application of the Gospel. I then try to use similar logic in resolving current problems.

In the common way it is used today, the early church was liberal. They shook off the bondage of the law for a more open relationship with God, extended worship to more than one day a week and broke the genetic barrier of believing God was only available to people with the right parents. They reached out to the world and not just those they were comfortable with.

marc · Sat Apr 27, 2002 - 07:43:47

Not wanting to further class envy or what I sometimes hear referred to as "class warfare", but for a better understanding of why some of us get frustrated at times, I would suggest reading James 2. Frankly, there are those of us who would love to have a faulty portfolio or a burdensome mortgage. Perhaps none of us do care about the others' problems, but I'm not convinced that is a good thing. And I list my own struggles not to gain sympathy (these are things I would really rather not dwell on) but because I sometimes wonder if there is an awareness of the existence of those of us who are often called the working poor. Perhaps living in a rural, ignored portion of a rural, ignored state heightens my sense of displacement, but this seems to me to be a real concern.

How did Jesus react to the poor? How did he interact with the wealthy? These questions may make us uncomfortable, but that does not make them unimportant. What should our response to the poor be? Is this affected more by what we read in the Bible or by our political views and our desires to be labelled "conservative".

I hate labels. Politically, it would be impossible to label me either conservative, liberal, or moderate (I am at times most immoderate!) Same thing religiously. I don't care to be labelled anything (although I honestly would prefer "progressive" to anything else--sorry if some don't like that label). No good really comes from labels. I like the responses here that have used the word liberal the way the Bible uses it--not as a label, but as a description of certain qualities a Christian should have. There is a huge difference in using a word to describe and using the word to label or to marginalize.

bobbyV · Wed Apr 24, 2002 - 01:49:07

I was castigated as a "liberal" this week by one who provided no definition whatsoever. This is my response to that person (I have deleted the name).

But . . . I AM a conservative. Look at the facts:

1) I believe in the inspiration and authority of the sacred writings
2) I believe God created the earth and all that lies within
3) I believe in Adam and Eve, the flood, the tower of Babel and the call of
Abram (can't get much more conservative than that!!)
4) I believe the Sea of Reeds was parted
5) I believe the wall of Jericho fell
6) I believe the river Jordan parted
7) I don't believe that Elisha was really Elijha (that is conservative)
8) I believe David really conquered Jebus
9) I believe Daniel really went into the lions den
10) I belive in the virgin birth
11) I believe he fed the 4000 and 5000 (that is very conservative)
12) I believe he walked on water
13) I believe he was crucified
14) I believe he was buried
15) I believe he was raised
16) I believe he poured out the Holy Spirit
17) I believe Peter really preached on Pentecost
18) I believe Saul really became Paul
19) I believe Paul was really bitten by a snake and shook it off
20) I believe he is coming back again

By ANY definition of LIBERAL, . . . , I could NEVER in a million years be
called one. Only in the Churches of Christ where one invents a private
definition of liberal could that be done.

A liberal, a true liberal, is one who does not believe in the Story. Israel
worshiped only a local tribal deity named yahweh; Israel never came out of
egypt; david was only a small chieftain -- that is IF he even existed at
all!! the solomonic empire never existed. Most of the hebrew scriptures were produced in the Maccabean period. Now . . . THAT IS LIBERALISM. If you honestly want to see what liberalism REALLY is check out Philip Davies book on University of Sheffield Press/JSOT Press (joint publication) called IN SEARCH OF ANCIENT ISRAEL.

A liberal, a true liberal, not the slander that occurs in Spiritual Sword
and STOP and other gossip spin magazines, is one who believes that Jesus was a deluded man. He may have eaten mushrooms and had hullucinations or he was simply an out of step Mediterranean peasant. He did not believe in a world wide mission of Israel that was the product of the early church. He surely did not come out of the grave. Paul is the real inventor of the Christ . . . etc, etc,

Now . . . if you want some good old fashion real liberalism I can run it by
you. But there are no theological liberals in the Churches of Christ -- no
matter how hard you, Alan Highers, . . . , or . . . say so.

I AM "conservative." I believe the BOOK. I submit to the Lordship of Christ. I do not feel obligated to follow the party line when I do not see that bound by God.

Rethink what a liberal is and rethink what a conservative is.

His Mark +
Bobby Valentine
[a href=\"mailto:bvalentine@dixie-net.com\"]bvalentine@dixie-net.com[/a]
:)

servant00 · Wed Apr 24, 2002 - 02:53:55

AMEN AMEN AMEN, the pharisees never cease to amaze me.

seekr · Wed Apr 24, 2002 - 03:43:51

oops, left out the word "true" to our camp

bobby, if his defintion is liberal because you are free in Christ, then take it as a great compliment. I appreciate your "liberalism".

seekr

seekr · Wed Apr 24, 2002 - 06:52:34

AMEN! Bob

seekr

kebecer1 · Wed Apr 24, 2002 - 20:13:54

I think that online boards can go through "seasons

janine · Thu Apr 25, 2002 - 14:13:32

It'a like a tightrope walk.

We've got to have that watchman-on-the-wall attitude, where we issue loving warnings to believer and unbeliever alike, when something appears to be leading them away from the Messiah. It may save them; and even if it doesn't, it is of benefit to us not to have their blood on our hands.

But where's that line, in each instance, between the Godly, Scripture-based loving warning, ad castigation/namecalling? When do we descend into cheerleading and pep-rallying for "our side", vs. the simple loving call to Christ?

Why does it scare us to "lose" people or to tentatively "keep" them, loose cannons tho' they may be? Why can't we leave the ownership of the flock in the Master's hands? Why is it some kind of personal insult when folks disagree w/ us, rather than a simple sadness in our hearts that they've disagreed with the Christ? And why do we insist on robot-like conformity of thought? Is it for our own comfort level in the Sunday a.m. pew & pulpit?

Janine

kebecer1 · Thu Apr 25, 2002 - 19:50:01

As a kindred in the movement that is/was the (on-going) "Reformation" of the 19th, 2oth, and now 21st centuries, I agree!

We DoC's are probably the most diverse, in terms of tolerance of variety, but still, I think that we have a group-think at times that spreads us "thick" on diversity, and "thin" on essentials. As to the churches of Christ, I honestly think that there's a lot more diversity there, ethnic, doctrinal, or o/w than what gets broadcast on the 'net, radio, or t.v.

I've formed some fast e-frienships w/ c of C folks, and--w/o violating confidentiality--I think and know that God the Holy Spirit's work among you is evident in your diversity.

Query: Why don't you, Disciple-like, talk about it, and celebrate it? :)

WileyClarkson · Thu Apr 25, 2002 - 20:15:11

Bobby,

I have held off commenting on this for a few days just to see where the discussion went. I agree with you 100%!!!! I have shared in that Liberal label and I'm not a preacher--the favorite target of those that like to use labelling.
Heard it locally and had a anonymous note on my web site one time that said (and this is almost word for word): "This is the most liberal site I have ever seen. How can you claim to be a member of the Church of Christ and a Christian?" Actually, after I got over being just a little "hot" over the fact that the person who left the note wasn't brave enough to leave an e-mail address so I could express my appreciation, I realized that I had apparantly just shot a sacred cow with one of the articles on my web site and decided that he had just really given me a compliment!

I have made this statement on several lists over the last few years and it still holds true as far as I can see:
The most "liberal" Church of Christ (SOF) member is still more "conservative" than 99% of the rest of Christianity.

God bless,

Wiley

Fate · Fri Apr 26, 2002 - 02:21:38

Wiley and Chris as usual you hit the nail on the head!!! (Even though I am nowhere near a Ronald Regan fan! Reganomics, God forbid!

)

When we say liberal in the COC we are often using it as a weapon of "herd control" more so than an actual discriptor of theological bent. I think we need to stick with the "old school" restoration movement saying,"In Faith Unity, in Opinion liberty, and in all things Charity." That way we can still hold firmly to our Biblical convictions while having room to discuss our differences gracefully and in love.

I like to consider myself Biblically conservative and methodologically liberal. (if that makes any sense! ;) )

mistergus · Fri Apr 26, 2002 - 04:44:33

This is my first post to this forum. I always find discussions of how to define a liberal or a conservative interesting.
Politicians have been trying to avoid the term "liberal" for years, preferring "progressive". Now the trend shows up in the church.

My definition of a what makes a liberal may depend on several factors, but there's one issue that always settles it for me. If someone tells me they don't think baptism is really necessary for salvation, that person is a flaming liberal, no matter if they claim they believe int he Bible, the virgin birth, etc...

If someone rejects the clear necessity of baptism as it is taught in scripture (and it IS taught in scripture), then nothing else they may do, say, or believe matters.

THAT is a liberal.

mistergus

seekr · Fri Apr 26, 2002 - 18:26:55

Jenell

I know exactly where you arecoming from, but if you look further into some of the discussions on this board you will find others like yourself. Don't judge by just a few ofthe posts as there are many varied perspectives, here. I also struggle with an impoverished state, but know that it is by God's hand because He loves me enough to consider me worthy to bear the cross. I too, sense arrogance at times in others, but thereare many who share my love for the downtrodden and are just on a path seeking Him. Under the theology section I would love for you to read my writing "Sight For Loves' Sake". Give these people a chance and you may be able to help them see from your perspective.

seekr

kebecer1 · Fri Apr 26, 2002 - 19:03:06

Jenell:

"Rejean" here: please, oh, please stay! I'm the one who urged my DoC kindred on "DoC's Today" to post here. You know me: I am a Disciple. And yes, a liberal, but by my read Luke 15 tells the story of an generous Father who goes on loving the Prodigal to the consternation of a pouting older brother. If that's "liberal", then I'm in. Note to self: Jesus compares the reign of God to a party; am I a "happy liberal" or a dour one, when the prodigal comes home?

More to the point: I think that we need more DoC's here, not b/c they're liberal, but we need to hear this discussion--good and bad!

Hope that you'll consider staying!

:p

janine · Sat Apr 27, 2002 - 02:22:37

Oh, help us Lord, now we've got socio-economic strife among the posters. Class envy? Intolerance of differences?

Do I need to publish my investment portfolio so as to be acceptably poor enough, or well-heeled enough, for my postings to matter?

Does anyone really care to hear about my substandard car, or my bad teeth, or the holes in my son's shoes? Conversely, could anyone care less about my income or investments or insurance?

I see in myself, as well as in others, a tendency to focus upon and pick at the postings that "push my buttons". We'd all do better to try & see things as a whole.

Until I learn something different, I assume every person professing Christ is sincere; until I learn anything different on the GC Message Forums, I'll assume everyone comes here for honest discussion and even casual debate.

God's bestest blessings on all your heads today! ;)

Janine

Sat Apr 27, 2002 - 05:47:21

Here is a trivia question for all the members of GCM Discussion Board:

Where is this verse in the Bible? "The liberal giveth liberally.."
Hint: It is in the KJV. :D

Now, being called a liberal isn't so bad is it? ;)

nerdneh · Sat Apr 27, 2002 - 07:32:25

This topic coming up here reminded me of a little dialog I wrote several years ago between a character I call J. B. and another man named Arthur:
Legalism and liberalism:
J. B. leaned back and forcefully pounded the table before him, "Legalists and liberals are really brothers under the skin. Brothers who do not know they are in the same family.

seekr · Sat Apr 27, 2002 - 19:31:45

marc, I am so glad you brought this up about "class warfare" because of my own ponderings brought about it in our discussions and because of the anger of Janelle. And I understand her anger and how others may view it as unloving--but would Jesus, show, not sympathy or pity, but great compassion because we are real and hurting? to speak the truth of how you feel is not sin. Again it is the heart and not the flesh. If there is anger and hatred borne from arrogance, that shows the heart and the sin--but if it comes from pain and struggling...then what is our stance? I believe too often we are supposed to "act" loving, when we are angry over situations (the same situations that anger a just God) where the arrogant judge us harshly and we smoothe over our words, because we want acceptance. I don't care if people ignore our cries, because I know God won't. I and my children have gone hungry at times because of the church's harsh stance and have known others who have, also. We read scripture and put commandments where there are none and then ignore the main commandments to SHOW love. 1 Timothy 6:16-18
"17COMMAND those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 18COMMAND them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share."

Am I being repititious? Absolutely! This is what God has called me to and this is why I have been through poverty--2 Corinthians 8:2
"Out of the most severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity."
Do you know I consider myself blessed for what God has shown me. And i feel like the poor stay hidden so often behind their smiles fearing the judgment from brothers and wanting to appear okay. Janelle was just a bit more honest than most of us cared to see. I know God has put me in this place and maybe I refuse to be released so i might gain a better ressurection, such as Hebrews 11 says about those who were tortured. Scripture says I AM to take pride in my humble circumstances, even though I struggle daily, with shame brought about from those who don't show mercy. I still do want to expose myself, publicly, and not where a mask of spirituality and pretense. Will you allow others to be real or consider them "unloving" because they have borne much?

seekr

marc · Sat Apr 27, 2002 - 21:49:15

Good responses here. All of us, I think, deserve the right to be real, to be open, yet few of us feel we have the freedom to do so. As I get older, I'm afraid I'm geting more contrary (I'd blame the diabetes, but I'm pretty much under control right now and I'm still contrary). I'm becoming intolerant of labels, of arguments, of contrived logic. I want things simpler, more direct.

And I've become convinced that as Christians our purpose is not to perpetuate doctrinal arguments and divisions, but instead to do whatever good there is to do. Sounds simple, but as I try to work this out I'm finding it to be much tougher than I ever imagined.

Booty · Wed Apr 24, 2002 - 02:34:02

I love liberally because He loved me quite liberally, so I must be the liberal!

nerdneh · Wed Apr 24, 2002 - 04:48:45

Bobby, if you are a liberal, Winston Churchill was a communist.
What a laugh, people must not know what a real liberal is. The fellowship of liberals would not even let you or me in the door. This silly attempt to define everybody out of the kingdom, except those that buy into the party line, does not come from God.
Liberals and legalists are the real brothers. They both unite in affirming that God is not active in the world today.

Bon Voyage · Thu Apr 25, 2002 - 17:10:44

I think a big problem among reformation type of movements ( I don't care for the word restoration used in conjuction with church) is that a unity movement turns into a unity in conformity movement.

chrischar · Thu Apr 25, 2002 - 20:54:33

I will tell you what is strange and funny at the same time. I have friends and acquaintances who try to tell me what their views are as far as COFC standards. They say, "I'm a liberal" or "I want to find a good liberal congregation."

I usually say something like, "A liberal congregation? No you don't! You want a conservative one!" Based on what they know of my views on things, they are usually very puzzled when I say this. But, really, a liberal congregation? That means a congregation who does not believe the Bible is the inspired word of God and does not believe in the virgin birth, etc.!

I am a conservative. Both polictically and religiously. I don't care if the media tells me I am narrow minded. I don't care if the style has changed as to out date me. I believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God. I believe that Jesus was actually, physically present on earth and actually, physically killed by a complete mochery of any judicial system. I believe that he actually and physically came back from the dead by the power of the Holy Spirit.

I am a pro-life, traditional American conservative. Just like Abraham Lincoln ® who freed the slaves, George Washington, Ronald Regan, etc. I believe in THE absolute God and in HIS absolute truth!

If you don't like that...tough...thats me! Actually and physically! :D

Chris

WileyClarkson · Fri Apr 26, 2002 - 17:09:27

Mistergus,

QuotePoliticians have been trying to avoid the term "liberal" for years, preferring "progressive". Now the trend shows up in the church.

My definition of a what makes a liberal may depend on several factors
Quote

I agree with you here and want to add that I think part of the problem in understanding conservative and liberal is the way many have come to understand the meanings of the two words because of the word useage in different areas of everyday life: eg: politics, economics, theology, etc. Applications are different for all the particular areas and a blurring of definitions has occurred with little understanding that this has occurred.

In our RM churches, "liberal" has come to mean (in common useage) a person who favors change and "conservative" means a person who does not favor change. The common useage definition has pretty much blurred the theological meaning to the point that it is no longer in focus or definable by the common church member. Added to that is the fact that we don't teach differences in theology in our churches. This is left to the universities and the serious theology/preaching students. Hence, when ever a change is suggested that goes against what is "accepted" at a common church member level, regardless of the fact that it may be even more doctrineally correct, theologically conservative, or Scripturally allowable than the present state, the person propossing the change is automatically viewed as a "theological liberal" and "change agent." Alex C. and Barton S. were "liberals" and "change agents" by our common use definitions, however, they were theological conservatives, especially, when comparred to the rest of Christianity at that time in church history. Wonder what they would think of the state of affairs if they were alive today?

Unfortunately, people are labeled all too quickly these days and that is absolutely tragic in what it is doing to our fellowship. It puts a straight jacket on freedom of thought and the search for a deeper understanding of Scripture, it splits congregations, it is splitting our fellowship, and it has been the single most damaging form of verbal abuse and lack of love among Christians that I can think of. Most of my friends who have either left the churches of Christ or have considered leaving have done so because of some form of verbal abuse related to this issue that they experienced---and that also includes me!

God bless,

Wiley

Fri Apr 26, 2002 - 18:11:28

I wandered through here from a mention of this site on the D.O.C. board, suggesting this might be another forum some there might find interesting.

I'm sorry that it isn't a place where I'd like to linger. Will make a couple of brief comments, and be on my way.

First, I identify myself as a Liberal Christian. And I identify with nothing at all of what is being attributed here to 'liberal' christians. Nothing. the utterly absurd and entrely false image of liberal christians put forth here disguest me. If you would differ or criticize those you think are different from yourself and your own opinion positions, why not at least from an honest effort to understand and depict them accurately?

Second, I found here something casues that a lot of others 'like' me in one sense to feel 'left outside the door' for. I am, and have lived most of my life as, poor. The discussions of money here relfect the same attitudes about christians and money that are to be found in the books on 'managing money' that usually make up over half the 'best seller' lists in christians books. This is the assumption that being a Christian equals being also 'middle class or above, income. In one of the opening articles, 'money is a little thing', and it is made to seem that any that concern themselves with making money or 'wanting' more money are selfish, greedy people. and that the only people that talk about money are those that don't know what is 'really important'. Isn't this a fashionable double-speak way of making the traditional attitude of the wealthy that to talk about money is 'crass and plebian' sound better, and like something other than what it is? My faith is the most important thing in my life, and I trust that I've managed as well as I have while living in poverty only for sake of his help. But I cannot but help feeling hurt and offended when others take such an attitude, that money is such a little thing, out of their middle class lifestyle, making it seem those of us that struggle with basic survival, live with untreated health problems for lack of access to health care, struggle to stay one jump ahead of the checkbook balance from one pay day to the next, must be just poor managers of our money, and foolishly short sighted for not having health insurance coverage and substantial retirement investments.

Jenell

marc · Fri Apr 26, 2002 - 19:40:47

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Second, I found here something casues that a lot of others 'like' me in one sense to feel 'left outside the door' for. I am, and have lived most of my life as, poor. The discussions of money here relfect the same attitudes about christians and money that are to be found in the books on 'managing money' that usually make up over half the 'best seller' lists in christians books. This is the assumption that being a Christian equals being also 'middle class or above, income. In one of the opening articles, 'money is a little thing', and it is made to seem that any that concern themselves with making money or 'wanting' more money are selfish, greedy people. and that the only people that talk about money are those that don't know what is 'really important'. Isn't this a fashionable double-speak way of making the traditional attitude of the wealthy that to talk about money is 'crass and plebian' sound better, and like something other than what it is? My faith is the most important thing in my life, and I trust that I've managed as well as I have while living in poverty only for sake of his help. But I cannot but help feeling hurt and offended when others take such an attitude, that money is such a little thing, out of their middle class lifestyle, making it seem those of us that struggle with basic survival, live with untreated health problems for lack of access to health care, struggle to stay one jump ahead of the checkbook balance from one pay day to the next, must be just poor managers of our money, and foolishly short sighted for not having health insurance coverage and substantial retirement investments[/quote]

Jenell, don't know if you're still around to read this, but AMEN!!!!! I get tired of going on about this sometimes, so I usually keep quiet, but as I've mentioned elsewhere, I have lived (recently) as a diabetic with no health insurance, and am currently still struggling mightily to simply pay my bills (let's see, this week do I pay the electric or replace the bald tire on my car). And I live in an area (rural West Virginia) where I'm better off than many. I find way too much of the attitude that the poor bring all their trouble on themselves, and believe that a fresh look at the people who Jesus came to would open many eyes. Yet that attitude isn't all-inclusive, and is probably as much a product of environment as any real theological bent (at least I hope it is).

nerdneh · Sat Apr 27, 2002 - 02:40:00

Nicely thought out Janine. I'm just happy to be in my little mortgaged home that is umpteen years old with substandard wiring, etc. because I know so many that are seemingly doing OK with the wealth of the world, and yet, they have great sadness. When you close your eyes at night, you could be anywhere, in the dollar a night hotel I stayed in while in Port au Prince Haiti or in some mansion. What does it matter as long as God grants you a peaceful sleep?
I suppose I have strayed a long way from the liberal and conservative posting, but "liberal" has a great usage when we think of the liberality of God. So, that leads me to one of favorite Scriptures on our liberal God. James says "If any of you comes short in wisdom, let that person ask for it from God who gives liberally to all, and God, who does not chew anyone out for asking, will give it to him." (James 1:5 my translation).

janine · Sat Apr 27, 2002 - 20:37:26

Sometimes I feel 'way too limited, too cloudy a thinker, too thick-tongued a speaker, to get across the dazzling, sky-wide, rock-solid concepts God has been gracious enough to make plain in His word and in my heart.

I've not wanted to come across as unloving or too sharp. Sometimes it feels like the wranglings over labels etc. trip us up to where we can't even go forward in our personal lives as functioning Christians.

I know I can't totally ignore & dispense with discussing labels & hobbyhorses, because if you're going to interact with people you need to have a common language & decide on some definitions. Still, I long to do so.

Maybe the way I stay sane in my local congregation is to do just that, ignore the wranglings over (gasp) some false teacher in Tennessee or (eek!) what the evil change agents are doing in some brotherhood magazine I never heard of.

I just duck my head, swallow a retort and go back to serving. The widow or the welfare mom might need me to take them to the doctor in my bumperless car with 2 different sized rims and mismatched tires...

The well-off, insured couple with the huge (mortgaged) house needs comfort when their mom is dying, and they don't care if I drive my wreck over to give it, or if I need a ride to sit with their Mom because my car died. If they despise me or my efforts because of my socio-economic state, it ain't because I didn't try.

The workhorses who do so much of the work with the prisoners, the children, the church grounds, the sick, etc., need support, encouragement, a break... I try to help them whether or not I think they're crippling themselves with "labelitis".

In recipes, "liberal" means "generous" and "conservative" means "sparse"... maybe even "stingy". :D

Thanks, everyone, for keeping my mind limber & not letting me get full of myself. :)

Janine

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