Christian Forums

Sometimes all people need to get up off the pews and out into the streets is someone to show them how.

You go, Kevin!

Kevin,

Thank you for your wonderful post... It is my hope and prayer that your sentiments will be echoed in the hearts of God's children everywhere.

I couldn't agree with you more regarding your observations, and could write much in response, but will wait for now. I do, however, recommend the story in the following link, to further expound upon what you have already articulated:

http://www.unity-in-diversity.org/frm_main.htm

In closing... How do we embrace the "weightier matters of the law"? I think that this next link will at least point us in the right direction:

http://insearchofacity.homestead.com/files/chip.html

"For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again..." (2 Cor. 5:14-15).


James Rondon

spurly,
Thanks for the topic.  I need to be reminded of God's focus.
Would it be o.k. with you if I printed off your first post and shared it with some of my church family?

Richard

And I'll be honored to share it.

Thanks,
Richard

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (Richard @ Dec. 13 2002,11:31)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]spurly,
I've dug back in the Theology archives and revived a thread called "Precision Obedience and the Technical God"
I thought you might find it interesting.  I believe the thread ran its course before you joined the board so you may not have seen it.

Richard[/quote]
Thanks,

I'll check it out this weekend.

Kevin

QUOTE:
"ARE WE TRYING OUR BEST TO BE RIGHT, AT THE EXPENSE OF THE WEIGHTIER MATTERS OF THE LAW, THE THINGS THAT REALLY MATTER TO GOD?  ARE WE TRYING TO RESTORE THE FORM OF THE FIRST CENTURY CHURCH AT THE EXPENSE OF LETTING OUR HEARTS BEAT WITH THE SAME PASSIONATE DESIRES THAT CAUSE GOD'S HEART TO BEAT?"

Spurly,  you have said it all!  You know sometimes when we strive to do everything SO right, we forget the love that we are to have for others.  One verse came to mind and I would like your opinion on this - the verse that says that love (or charity) covers a multitude of sins.  I'm sorry I can't remember where it is found right now, but this has always been a mystery to me.  Is it saying that if we have the love of Jesus (which is what we should be striving for) that maybe our love will cover up not doing everything so by the book?
I would really appreciate you guys giving me your opinion on this.
God bless!   :) pjindy

P.S.  I'm not trying to get away from this thread, I love the topic.  Thanks so much!   :christmas:

:) Kevin,  thanks for the answer.  I agree with your opinion, I've heard it explained different ways.
Have a wonderful weekend.
God bless.
pjindy   :D

The edges tend to get worn away
by the friction caused
by the rubbing of shoulder-against-shoulder
when Christians come down
from the mountaintops
into the quarry-pit world
to get their hands dirty
and their hearts bruised
in loving service.

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (Booty @ Dec. 13 2002,6:06)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Kevin,

I see a certain softening of the sharper edges more day by day, it is a joy to watch the Lord work on a brother bringing him to grace.

God Bless,
Brojees[/quote]
Brojees,

Thanks.  I hope none of us ever stop growing in grace :pray: .

Kevin

Another thought.  When Jesus was in the synagogue in Nazareth and the scroll was handed to him, listen again to what he read:

"The spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor.  He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release th oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

We like to spiritualize these thoughts, maybe too much.  Jesus came to bring justice and to show mercy.  Can we do anything less?

Remember the parable of the sheep and the goats - it will be easy to determine the diffences between the two.  The sheep followed the example of Christ in showing justice and mercy.  The goats did not.  (It wasn't these things that got them into heaven, but these works just marked who they belonged to.  What marks me?  That question haunts me.)

Kevin

A couple of stories from the website of the International Justice Mission ( http://www.ijm.org ) of work that they have done.  Be careful though, if you read these you are going to want to get involved in the fight for justice.

Quarry Slaves

In January of 2002, IJM investigators in India discovered a rock quarry where entire families were enslaved as bonded laborers. These workers, including small children, were often forced to work seven days a week, breaking rocks with hammers for ten to twelve hours per day in order to pay back small loans, or bonds, at exorbitant interest rates. Despite the fact that bonded servitude is illegal in India, these destitute families were forced to toil in the quarry under the watchful eye of armed guards.

Like other victims who have no advocate, these families were cut off from the forces of justice and law that were meant to protect them. Their freedom was restricted and they were prevented from leaving the quarry.

Over several months IJM staff members were able to collect evidence and intelligence regarding these families and begin to formulate a plan of intervention. In April 2002, IJM staff and local law enforcement officials organized a raid on the quarry and were able to rescue half of the families. Several weeks later another raid was carried out and the rest of the families were freed. The quarry has now been cleared of bonded laborers and slavery. The families are beginning new lives and will soon be given land as restitution by the government.

Girls held in Forced Prostitution

Sumita ran away from her hometown of Solapur after learning that her father planned to force her to marry an older man in the village. Arriving at the train station in Bombay, a kindly man approached her, bought her some food and offered to take her to a place where she could make some money washing vessels. Hopeful, she followed the man across town to a street that everyone in Bombay, except Sumita, knows is the place where men go to buy sex. Sumita realized where she was and tried to run.

She was taken upstairs and held in a windowless room for three days as she cried and demanded release. The brothel keeper told her that she had been sold by the man for $750 and that she would have to provide sex to customers in order to pay off the debt. At 12, Sumita had never had sex before. She was slapped, beaten and pulled about by her hair, and constantly reminded of what was required of her.

After a week, her first customer was brought to her when she was alone in her room. Sumita screamed and struggled, frustrating the customer. When the customer complained to the brothel keeper, Sumita was slapped and beaten until she would submit. And before the evening was over, she did submit. After that, she stopped trying to escape.

Over the next few years she was sold from brothel to brothel, forced to receive about 4-5 customers a day in a city with one of the fastest growing AIDS epidemics in the world. In time, the brothel keeper's coercion became as invisible and constant as gravity, conveying an iron law: "No one can help you. You have no where to go."

Status: CASE CLOSED

IJM began to infiltrate the brothels in Bombay and located about two dozen children held in forced prostitution - including Sumita. The investigators documented the girls' condition with video surveillance equipment and then worked with a trusted police contact to raid the brothels. Initially, other corrupt elements of the police tipped off the brothels to move the girls; but in follow-up actions, the police were able to release about a dozen of the girls and place them in a temporary rescue home - including Sumita.


Kevin

Richard, I would be honored if you were to share anything I wrote.

Kevin

Spurly,  This is what matters most, love, the most excellent way. It says if you follow this you have fulfilled it all. When we finally come to this point in our walk and see what Jesus meant when He asked Peter if he loved Him and 3 times answered "then feed my sheep'...this is how we show love for God. Your post is excellent.

seekr

spurly,
I've dug back in the Theology archives and revived a thread called "Precision Obedience and the Technical God"
I thought you might find it interesting.  I believe the thread ran its course before you joined the board so you may not have seen it.

Richard

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]I don't know.  Maybe Kari is finally getting to me and turning me into a bleeding heart liberal.[/quote]

No Kevin, the Lord is getting to you and loving you. Isn't it wonderful? :thumbs-up:  :thumbs-up:

Peggy, that phrase, "love covers a multitude of sins" comes from 1 Peter 4:8, and Peter lifts it from Proverbs 10:12.  THe whole verse is:  "Above all, love one another deeply, because love covers a multitude of sins".

What was Peter referring to?  One commentator thinks, and I think I agree with him, that "where love abounds in a fellowship of Christians, many small offences, and even some large ones, are readily overlooked and forgotten.  But where love is lacking, every word is viewed with suspicion, every action is liable to misunderstanding, and conflicts abound - to Satan's perverse delight."  (From the Tyndale NT Commentary Series)

Our love for each other makes up for what we don't get right.  And we don't hold grudges against others becaue they have sinned, or we think they have sinned.  Love clears the path.

Kevin

Kevin,

I see a certain softening of the sharper edges more day by day, it is a joy to watch the Lord work on a brother bringing him to grace.

God Bless,
Brojees

Kevin, thank you for giving us something of your real self here; we've been blessed by it.

Kari.

Most of the people on this forum are well versed in the Scripture.  When you saw the heading for this topic, you probably immediately thought - Matthew 23, Jesus and the Pharisees.  Bingo.  

But I want to bring it closer to home.  I want it to be Matthew 23, Jesus and us.  So you don't have to dig under all the paper on your desk to find your Bible, here are the verses for those of you who don't have them memorized.  They are from the mouth of Jesus (And I figured out how to make the text red!). :hug:

[span style=\'color:red\']"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!  You give a tenth of your spices - mint, dill, and cummim.  But you have neglected the more important matters of the law - justice, mercy, and faithfulness.  You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.  You blind guides!  You strain at a gnat and swallow a camel."[/span]

It seems to me that in the restoration movement as a whole, we may very well be guilty of exactly what Jesus condemned in this passage.  We as a movement have a desire to get everything just right - just like it was in the first century (even though those people had their problems as well).  We want our worship to be right, we want our preaching and teaching to be right, we want our leadership to be right, heck, we just want to be right.  

Just like the Pharisees.  Their desire was to do everything right - by the book.  But they took more abuse from Jesus than any other group.  That scares me, because I am a part of a movement that claims to be "a people of the book", and we may be falling under the same judgment as the Pharisees.

Are we trying our best to be right, at the expense of the weightier matters of the law, the things that really matter to God?  Are we trying to restore the form of the first century church at the expense of letting our hearts beat with the same passionate desires that cause God's heart to beat?

Are we striving to bring justice to people who are oppressed in America, and around the world?  That used to be a hallmark of Christianity.  Slavery was beaten because Christians took a stand for justice.  The civil rights movement and women's equality movements were by and large, in the beginning, spawned by Christians upset at the injustice they saw.  

Hospitals were founded by Christians who wanted to show the mercy of God to a hurting world.  Men and women would do whatever possible to help the hurting so that God's mercy would flow through them.

And all the while they would stay faithful to God and to who he called them to be.

I'm afraid I have done that.  I'm afraid that in the past I have been so worried about having everything right, that I lost sight of what really makes God's heart beat - showing mercy to those who need it and working for justice for the oppressed.

I don't know.  Maybe Kari is finally getting to me and turning me into a bleeding heart liberal.

But I think that it is time that we as a church took a stand - not on worship formats or the day we take communion,  or whether women can be deacons - but it's time we take a stand for justice and mercy for the oppressed and the lost.  

What will that look like?  I don't know.  But here are some problems, that if the church - that's us - began to address them, we could go a long way to getting our heart beating with God's.

Slums that are overrun with drug lords need to see the justice and mercy of God through us.

Chinese men and women who come to this country on the promise of a great job and end up locked up in sweat shops need to see the justice and mercy of God through us.

Children in India who are held in forced prostitution - maybe as many as 2.3 million of them - need to see the justice and mercy of God through us.

People in Zambia, a country with a population of 10 million, where AIDS has lowered the life span to just over 30 years and there are 1.2 million orphans need to see the justice and mercy of God through us.

Children who are sold into bonded slavery to repay a debt of their parents in countries like Pakistan, India, Cambodia, etc. need to see the justice and mercy of God through us.

Children who are exploited by having their bodies photographed with very little clothes on and then having their pictures placed all over the internet need to see the justice and mercy of God through us.

People who are held in prison unjustly, for religious or political or any other reason, need to see the justice and mercy of God through us.

People who are being taken advantage of by the govenment of Venezuela need to see the justice and mercy of God through us.

Women who are considered pieces of property in many Islamic countries need to see the justice and mercy of God through us.

I could go on, but I will stop now before the picture gets so big that I send myself into a tailspin of despair.  I just think it's time that the church became the church - and sought justice on behalf of the oppressed, and showed the down and out the mercy of God as we were faithful to our call.

I think one way that I am going to do is to live an even simpler life than I currently live so that I can use all my means to bring God's justice and mercy to bear on our world.

(I was on an internet site today that said that it takes about $500.00 to get a child out of bonded slavery and $1000.00 to rescue a child from forced prostitution.  Maybe I can do both in 2003.  If you want to look at the site it is http://www.ijm.org )

"He has showed you O man what is good.   And what does the Lord require of you?  To act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

Kevin (Who doesn't want to be guilty of straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel)