Every mouth may be silenced...

david johnson · Sun Dec 15, 2002 - 04:17:16

spurly:

i don't believe that segment of is. is related to rom. in that manner.

dj

spurly · Sun Dec 15, 2002 - 08:10:34

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]spurly:

i don't believe that segment of is. is related to rom. in that manner.

dj[/quote]
I know the traditional understanding of Isaiah 53 is that Christ was silent because he was being passive. He knew what was happening to him was part of his mission in life so he didn't throw up a protest.

But why couldn't it be deeper than that? Why couldn't his guilt before God, after he took upon himself the iniquity of us all, be the reason that he didn't protest? He knew beyond a shadow of doubt that he was guilty as charged.

I don't want to apply things to the scriptures that are not there, but I also don't want to get in a rut of thinking I know exactly what a scripture means so that any new insights into that scripture are automatically written off as an error.

Kevin

patriciaredstone · Mon Dec 16, 2002 - 11:33:26

Silence is a fascinating biblical study. Early Jewish sects in NT times practiced spiritual silence in community -- most notably, during communal meals. The acetic value of spiritual silence was adopted from the Jews by the earliest Chrisitan communties -- like the Carmelites -- where silence is still practiced during meals. It is interesting that by mentioning the Lamb, Isaiah brings up the image of the Passover lamb, the most holy of Jewish meals which Christians interpret through the Lord's Supper or Holy Communion. At the cross, Christ did not cry out for the injustice of serving Himself up -- body and blood -- as spiritual food for human sins, but neither did the Father cry out for the injustice of recruiting and nurturing his son and sustaining him for this ultimate Meal.

spurly · Mon Dec 16, 2002 - 23:28:53

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (david johnson @ Dec. 16 2002,03:53)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]spurly:

i don't think isaiah was being deep nor that Christ was in a passive mode. isaiah was, however, writing descriptively with comments he and his readers readily understood.

dj[/quote]
David, in reading your posts I am lost. What do you think the silence of the one who was pierced for our transgression was referring to?

Thanks,

Kevin

patriciaredstone · Tue Dec 17, 2002 - 11:46:58

On silence: Has anyone here noticed how the tongue of the priest was shut-up (Zechariah) as the womb's of women were opened (Mary and Martha)? The priest's tongue was finally loosed when he put aside his authority before his to do the right thing and follow his wife's lead in doing the will of God.

Bless you all this Christmas season when we are reminded that God finds a way.

spurly · Sat Dec 14, 2002 - 22:43:45

I was just listening to a sermon by Louis Giglio, from Northpoint Community Church in Atlanta. He made an interesting point that I had not considered before. Here is a summary of what he said.

In Romans 3:9-18, Paul points out over and over again that we are all guilty before God. None of us have an excuse, all of us have sinned.

Then in Romans 3:19 it says this: "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced..."

All of us are guilty of sin, so when we stand before our Father we won't be stammering, trying to excuse it away or explain our extenuating circumstances. We will be silent before him because God will have us dead to rights. (This is before Jesus of course. And that's what Louis goes on to say.)

He then goes to Isaiah 53 and points out a wonderful fact that I had never noticed, even though I have read that chapter many times. Here's the passage:

"He was pierced for our transgressions
He was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
And by his wounds we are healed.

We all like sheep have gone astray,
Each of us has turned to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed and afflicted,
Yet he did not open his mouth;
And as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
So he did not open his mouth." (Isaiah 53:5-7)

He did not open his mouth? Why? Because the Lord had laid all of my sins and all of your sins on him. He literally had no excuse because he was guilty as sin - so even though he was the Son of God, he had to remain quiet before the judge of the universe.

I thought it was good, I hope you were blessed by it as well,

Kevin

"The Lord made him who knew no sin to be sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God".

janine · Sun Dec 15, 2002 - 07:18:43

Makes for an excellent and moving illustration of what he was trying to preach, though. Is it necessary that the two passages be about the same idea, when used that way?

david johnson · Mon Dec 16, 2002 - 03:53:27

spurly:

i don't think isaiah was being deep nor that Christ was in a passive mode. isaiah was, however, writing descriptively with comments he and his readers readily understood.

dj

Mon Dec 16, 2002 - 23:09:28

I must concur with David Johnson on this one.

david johnson · Tue Dec 17, 2002 - 03:00:15

spurly:

i suppose we just think differently. i can't see that silence refers to anything. isaiah did, however, foresee that Christ would exhibit that behavior.

dj

spurly · Tue Dec 17, 2002 - 10:17:01

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (david johnson @ Dec. 17 2002,03:00)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]spurly:

i suppose we just think differently. i can't see that silence refers to anything. isaiah did, however, foresee that Christ would exhibit that behavior.

dj[/quote]
Hey Dave,

Thanks for your reply.

I think it is awesome that Isaiah foresaw the silence of Christ years and years before the Messiah was even born. But, like you said, we think differently on this one. I'm of the mind to believe that the silence was imortant and it meant something.

Love you brother,

Kevin

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