Church Size?

Bon Voyage · Sat Jan 04, 2003 - 11:04:09

.

s1n4m1n · Sat Jan 04, 2003 - 20:40:25

Hi,

We were up to about 180 people (adults and children) and decided to enlarge our building (it seated about 200) because of the growth (it was mainly from Christians just moving into the area). Well, we started saving money for the expansion and some other people move away. So instead of changing our plans we decided to go ahead anyway.

Now we have a building that will seat about 300 but only about 160 members. We cut off sending money to any outside preachers (except one temporarily) to save up enough money. We still have to take out about a quarter million in loans. We won't provide any outside support for 7 years in order to pay off the loan early to save on interest. I've heard some people complaining a little bit but nobody ever really spoke up at the men's business meetings (except me, but I yielded to the wisdom of other members opinions in order to be united).

As bad as all that sounds, it's actually worse because of some other things that have gone on.

venting a little,

Ken

marc · Sat Jan 04, 2003 - 20:51:38

Ken's reply appeared while I was posting, so as for kids, I was not specifically answering his question.

(edit) And it happened again.

s1n4m1n · Sat Jan 04, 2003 - 21:27:02

marc,

That bear keeps blinking at me. I think I'm being HYPNOTIZED!

Ken

seekr · Sun Jan 05, 2003 - 14:07:59

And marc, I am glad someone said that it was a bear, I was really not too sure about this one...kinda scares me. LOL

Maurine

segell · Tue Jan 07, 2003 - 09:02:30

I attend a non-denom, bible church called Grace Fellowship in Timonium, MD - just north of Baltimore. In 1980, 4 couples decided to begin worshipping together in their homes. Twenty years later there are approximately 2500+ regular attendees (not including children that attend our children's ministry programs). Grace Fellowship has had the priviledge of planting three other churches in the area. One has about 1500 attending weekly, another about 500 and the other is quite small yet. Our fellowship consists of a large number of house churches or neighborhood groups that meet at various times during the week. On Sunday (and one service on Saturday evening) we all come together for corporate worship.

Please visit our website at http://www.gfc.org and please consider visiting and worshipping with us if you should be in the area.

Steve

spurly · Sat Jan 04, 2003 - 10:53:36

What size churches do most of you worship with?

:wave:

Kevin

spurly · Sat Jan 04, 2003 - 11:01:15

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (JerryBrooke @ Jan. 04 2003,10:59)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]70 in the winter and closer to 175 in the summer months.[/quote]
You must be in Florida, Arizona, or southern Texas.

Kevin

spurly · Sat Jan 04, 2003 - 11:05:19

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (JerryBrooke @ Jan. 04 2003,11:04)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]No, Michigan. We have a lake near us where you must be a professing Christian in order to own a house on it. A lot of people show up in the summer because the weather is milder and cooler than most places.[/quote]
A lake, where you have to be a Christian to own land next to it? How do they get away with that?

Just curious.

Kevin

marc · Sat Jan 04, 2003 - 20:27:22

I couldn't believe it! We're actually not in the lowest catagory (we average 23-25). :0

James Rondon · Sat Jan 04, 2003 - 20:40:57

When estimating size, is everyone here counting Christians only... or are they counting visitors and kids too?

marc · Sat Jan 04, 2003 - 20:49:51

What is a visitor? Oh, wait, I remember. We used to have those. But yes, I would consider kids a part of the church. :thumbs-up:

s1n4m1n · Sat Jan 04, 2003 - 20:50:55

Looks like your typical Bell Curve developing on the distribution.

Ken

s1n4m1n · Sat Jan 04, 2003 - 21:03:04

marc,

Are you backing out of answering the question.

Just kidding, I didn't think your reply was a response to my question. It was up there after I hit the reply button. You would have had to been psychic to answer.

apage,

ken

marc · Sat Jan 04, 2003 - 21:22:24

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]You would have had to been psychic to answer[/quote]

And you're assuming I'm not? :alien: I deal with customers every day who assume the opposite.

seekr · Sun Jan 05, 2003 - 14:05:19

I have the smallest attendance with anywhere from 2(mostly 2),of course Jesus makes 3, to 6, once in a great while, 7. Very small congregation, but very enlightening.

Maurine

Tue Jan 07, 2003 - 10:31:40

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (spurly @ Jan. 04 2003,9:37)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Ken,

To answer your question, I would say yes, until they come to the point where they know they are supposed to choose Christ, and don't. (And only God knows when that is).

Kevin[/quote]
I have a question that could fit on several threads but will toss it out here. It somewhat relates to counting kids as members of the church. (It mostly relates to my twelve year old not being baptised!) Where does the idea of "age of accountability" come from (as pertains to the "age" to get baptised and be added to the church)? Is a child added to the church as an infant and taken away from the church as sin comes about? I think children learn to sin at an early age. Even a very young child can know right and wrong (I'm guessing by three years old). And, there are twelve year olds known to commit murder. Are children not considered to be sinners or do we simply wait until they are around twelve so that there is a more mature understanding of salvation? My son told me that our church camp (and I assume our church as well...they run the camp) doesn't encourage baptisms until seventh grade. Children are precious...this is important... I hope one or more of you will respond. Is it a website phenomenon that all threads lead to baptism???

P. S. I think someone on one the baptism threads (maybe it was BH) said Jesus wasn't baptised until he was thirty. Is this true and does his age have significance? I repect BH's intelligence (and the thought that my son could wait until thirty and be OK was comforting!)...however I would like to hear from others. No offense intended, BH, but being a professed athiest detracts somewhat from your credibility in giving religious advice! Turn around and work for the Lord...you missed your calling but it's not too late!!!

marc · Sat Jan 04, 2003 - 21:30:46

I'm glad you mentioned that. I thought I was losing my mind. It never blinks when I'm looking directly at it, but sometimes when I can only see it from the corner of my eye. . . I think it's hungry. :0

marc · Sun Jan 05, 2003 - 15:40:19

It looked more comic and less scary on the avatar list. But I think I'll keep it anyway.

s1n4m1n · Mon Jan 06, 2003 - 19:21:26

Hi Wiley,

I've heard of the 80% rule before. But I've also read a book by a church building architect which describes in some detail about how congregations make wrong decisions with regards to church buildings. The biggest blunder he says are when congregations decide to expand the building in order to motivate people to be more evangelistic. Unfortunately, that was one of the "justifications" for the building project when the attendance fell a little.

It sounds like your congregation like to stuff'em in before expanding, which I think is a good idea.

agape,

Ken
Ken

Bon Voyage · Sat Jan 04, 2003 - 10:59:04

70 in the winter and closer to 175 in the summer months.

s1n4m1n · Sat Jan 04, 2003 - 20:49:51

Hi,

I'm counting children and visitors. Our average attendace is about 160 on Sunday morning, 110 on Sunday evening, and 80-90 on Wednesday evening.

Later,

Ken

P.S. Interesting theological question: Are children members of the church (universal)?

James Rondon · Sat Jan 04, 2003 - 21:14:14

If you add up the Christians that I normally assemble with, we come out in the smallest category... (about 16).

If you add children and some of the regular visiting non-Christians, we end up in the next category.... (about 30).

Ken... regarding your question on children, I want to think over my answer on that one for a little while... (that is, if I have an answer).

spurly · Sat Jan 04, 2003 - 21:33:38

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (James Rondon @ Jan. 04 2003,8:40)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]When estimating size, is everyone here counting Christians only... or are they counting visitors and kids too?[/quote]
I was thinking in terms of total attendance. However, I don't know what everyone else is doing.

Kevin

spurly · Sat Jan 04, 2003 - 21:37:07

Ken,

To answer your question, I would say yes, until they come to the point where they know they are supposed to choose Christ, and don't. (And only God knows when that is).

Kevin

WileyClarkson · Mon Jan 06, 2003 - 10:02:07

Granbury CoC is presently around 850 and very slowly growing. We just completed an expansion adding new offices and work areas, conference room, enlarging the fellowship area by 50%, and a number of classrooms. Generaly, we are planning to try to grow to 1200+ members before looking at planting a new congregation. Capacity in the late worship is at around 90%+ (and sometimes closs to 100%) on an average Sunday and the 60 to 70% in the early service. One of the elders has already told me that a mid morning service may be just a short time away to take care of the over loading in the late worship and planned/expected growth. Our auditorium seats apx 550 people packed in tight!

Just a side note to what Ken was saying about their building, capacity, and expansion. When a building reaches 80% capacity, growth stops. At that point, you either decide that you have plenty of people in the congregation and work to plant a new congregation to take additional growth, get cpmplacent and just don't grow, or you enlarge the facilities--sometimes with huge leaps of faith, and start working on reaching people!

spurly · Tue Jan 07, 2003 - 10:53:14

There really is no passage of scripture that I can think of that refers specifically to what we call "the age of accountability". Most people who believe that this "age" exists, also believe that one has to be able to recognize the sin in their life and know that a God exists who can save them from that sin before they can be condemned.

I believe this to be true, but it also opens up another can of worms, and that being adults who do not know because they have never heard. Are they still not yet to the age of accountablity.

In Romans 1 Paul seems to say that they will be held accountable, based on what they can know about God from their world.

I will wait patiently to hear the responses of others. :lookaround:

Kevin

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