A little introduction for myself.

Tue May 07, 2002 - 02:57:32

I am a good person, of course I like to have my fun as any other teenager would, but ironically I act more like a Christian should than the majority of Christians in my town. And don't get any ideas, I only refer to myself as heathan, infidel, ect. as an ongoing joke I have with the world. ;)

I just wan't to dispell any myths about who people like me are because I have been pretty vilified in society. I feel that my purpose in life is to educate people about the effects of hatred and prejudice, I am not happy until I start helping people live ethical lives and start reversing the beast of hatred one mind at a time.

BTW, as I said, I enjoy intelligent conversation.

Barry · Wed May 08, 2002 - 16:10:18

Bent,
If you base your ethics on your experience, what do you do when your experience teaches you to hate others? Suppose you were raised in a home where you were taught that all white people were evil. In addition, you experienced abuse from a white man who happened to be homosexual, when you were a child.

What ethic would you derive from your experience?

The fact is, experience is not a legitimate basis for our ethical system. There has to be some standard by which to determine right from wrong. I asked you above if you believed in absolutes. You didn't answer. I asked if you believe in right and wrong. Again, no answer. I would suggest that those are very difficult questions when you have no standard by which to base your ethical system.

Barry

David · Thu May 09, 2002 - 22:17:52

Orignally posted by peck
I am curious why so many [atheists] are coming from the Sec Web over to christian web boards.

Atheistic missionaries (not ALL atheists, mind you), believe it or not, wish to "de-convert" people from their chosen religion. I was surprised as well at how forcefully some atheists are attempting to do this. These missionaries seek out vulnerable people on message boards and poison the well of many a discussion.

I have to say that there are many atheists who wish to just be left alone and those that only want to have serious, honest debate. The gambit of activism is similar to Christians in many ways, which makes me wonder if Relativism and Humanism are emerging as religions and not just philosophical ideals.

Bent and proud, welcome and I look forward to some in depth discussion with you some time.

seekr · Fri May 17, 2002 - 17:24:44

Janine, I believe it is a mankind thing and history repeats itself constantly.

seekr

Tue May 07, 2002 - 02:16:41

Ahh, lets get started. I was recomended this place from the Internet Infidels forum and it looks like (so far) that this is a good message board. Now, first thing, I am an Atheist but I promise you that you will not see any steriotypical behavior from me. I just enjoy inteligent conversation and I do have plenty of Christian friends, as well as Wiccans, Buddists, and fellow Atheists. Second, if you can't tell by my name I am homosexual, and am a little dissapointed by some of the headlines on this site. But anyway, bare me no ill-will and you will receive the same level of respect from me.

Konichiwa :p

peck · Tue May 07, 2002 - 02:49:55

Hi Bent and proud,
Thanks for being honest.Believing in God,and accepting Jesus as Lord is a choice.I see no need to provide evidence for God and no need for you to supply evidence that there is no God.Your right to not believe should be respected and our right to believe should be the same.

I am curious why so many are coming from the Sec Web over to christian web boards.Anyway,I just wanted to say hi.

Charles

Barry · Tue May 07, 2002 - 11:47:47

Hi Bent,
Welcome! You stated, "I am not happy until I start helping people live ethical lives..." Would you mind sharing with us what you base your ethical system on if you are an atheist? What determines whether something is right or wrong? Do you believe in absolutes?

Thanks,
Barry

Wed May 08, 2002 - 02:11:37

I base my ethics on what I have experienced. Take for example I know what it feels like to be on the recieving end of harassment (physical and psychological), ergo I know that causing such pain to others if there is a viable alternative is wrong. If someone treats me wrong I just refuse to aknowledge the fact that they exist and continue with my life, not that I degrade myself by caring what people like that think of me. Also, I am young, 17 to be exact, but I am mature enough to know who and what I am. In the end I make good grades, obey my parents, treat everyone with respect until they prove that they are not worthy of it, and live life acording to logic and knowledge.

seekr · Wed May 08, 2002 - 16:59:11

Bent, when someone treats me wrong, I pray for them. There are no "good" people in the world, just those who have been redeemed or not redeemed. I am not a worthy person, that is why there's a cross. Love saved me.

seekr

Thu May 09, 2002 - 00:24:58

I said thats what I base MY ethics on, I have no bearing over the rest of society. Unfortunantly there are a lot of people who are taught to hate others, and they will breed offspring who are taught to hate others, and so on. I was rased in a house that taught no person was better than anyone else, period.

janine · Fri May 17, 2002 - 16:06:24

Interesting how we Americans (we humans?) approach religion as if the Bible were a cafeteria, an Automat, a vending machine...

Some folks will gladly take Christian fellowship/comraderie ("where everbody knows your name/and they're always glad you came..."), but they want no part of Christian good works (which were prepared in advance for us to do).

Some will grab a principle here, a freedom or a fun-looking obligation there, and just run along. If anyone wants to keep some part of the old law, like putting sexual sinners to death, they need to keep all of the law.

They need to submit themselves to cleansing rituals and letting a priest tell them when they can or can't have intercourse with their wives (so as to not be ceremonially unclean at an inconvenient time). There's a whole world of being controlled by that wise old schoolmaster/tutor, Law, that they need to take advantage of.

If anyone wants to live contrary to obvious stuff still in place for us as recorded in the NT, then why bother to take dessert and crackers but leave behind the entree? Just go to the Secular Cafe and get on with your life. What there is of it, since there's a lot less of it when you cut God out.

Is that an American thing, to pick apart Scripture to try & find something to justify any garbage we want to do? Or is it a mankind thing? :(

Sat May 18, 2002 - 04:24:14

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (janine @ May 17 2002,09:06)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Interesting how we Americans (we humans?) approach religion as if the Bible were a cafeteria, an Automat, a vending machine...

Some folks will gladly take Christian fellowship/comraderie ("where everbody knows your name/and they're always glad you came..."), but they want no part of Christian good works (which were prepared in advance for us to do).

Some will grab a principle here, a freedom or a fun-looking obligation there, and just run along. If anyone wants to keep some part of the old law, like putting sexual sinners to death, they need to keep all of the law.

They need to submit themselves to cleansing rituals and letting a priest tell them when they can or can't have intercourse with their wives (so as to not be ceremonially unclean at an inconvenient time). There's a whole world of being controlled by that wise old schoolmaster/tutor, Law, that they need to take advantage of.

If anyone wants to live contrary to obvious stuff still in place for us as recorded in the NT, then why bother to take dessert and crackers but leave behind the entree? Just go to the Secular Cafe and get on with your life. What there is of it, since there's a lot less of it when you cut God out.

Is that an American thing, to pick apart Scripture to try & find something to justify any garbage we want to do? Or is it a mankind thing? :([/quote]
Janine, I am always moved when I read your posts. You and I are so much alike in the way we think yet still exact opposites from the other at the same time.

MASouth · Thu May 09, 2002 - 20:26:42

Bent and Proud,

What do you mean by experiencing hatred? In my town, if anyone says or thinks that homosexuality is not normal for human beings, then he or she is accused of hatred. Our schools wanted to teach my child all about homosexuality and it included things I would choose not to teach my children. It is my perogative as a mom to guide and teach my children as I see fit. Yet, when I spoke my opinions on the matter at our school board meetings, I was heckled, called names, and reamed in the local papers as a bigot. I want to know who was showing the hatred here. This is a common experience across the country.
Your comments?

MaSouth

Fri May 17, 2002 - 06:50:36

B&P,

The owner of this site mistakenly thought that when I asked if II folks could post here I was referring only to myself. He really did not mean everyone else. I hope you are welcome here it is just I do not want you to be surprised if your threads are stopped. Hey did you see the "fresh meat" thread postings I made in the Rants, Raves, and Preachings section over at II? I think if our GCM friends would pay a friendly visit to our II board (after all do not neighbors visit each other?) they would probably get some good replies to the questions they are asking you.

GCM folks, if you do not mind would one of you send me an email when our mutual friend Mr. Booty gets back to posting online after his relocation?

Thanks,
B.H.

pdwblw · Tue May 07, 2002 - 02:47:48

Welcome to the board,
I would gather that you have already heard all the Scriptures which clearly tell us that homosexuality is a sin so I will not quote or refernce them for you. What I will tell you is that it is not THE sin, it is one of many. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. That's you and me. The wonderful truth is that Jesus died for you and me so that we can be free from sin. There is NO other way. God loves you and I pray (literally) that you will give your life to Him someday.

janine · Tue May 07, 2002 - 18:07:19

Hey, Bent...

You said: "I am a good person, of course I like to have my fun as any other teenager would, but ironically I act more like a Christian should than the majority of Christians in my town. And don't get any ideas, I only refer to myself as heathan, infidel, ect. as an ongoing joke I have with the world."

Where is your objective measure of what "good" is, without the qualities inherent in God being superimposed over everything and everyone as a measure?

Also (trust me, tongue is not very close to cheek here), one's preoccupation with one's sexuality oughta be very back-burner until one is in a position of age, finances, etc., to commit to a God-designed relationship with another human being, within which to exercise sexuality.

In other words, I'm only half joking when I ask you and my own teens what a teenager is doing taking a stand on sexual identity, when the actualization of all feelings & theories about it oughta be years away... ;)

I, too, use words like "heathen" and "infidel" as a joke sometimes; at times, as a backhanded, subtle insult to folks who have a haughty contemptuous attitude re: someone else's spirituality.

gmk3 · Thu May 09, 2002 - 01:23:06

Hey Bent,
I would also like to know if you believe in "right and wrong". If so, in your opinion who ultimitely decided what is right and what is wrong for all the universe? Those are sincere questions. Thanks

Gilbert

Fri May 17, 2002 - 07:09:29

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Bent and Proud,

What do you mean by experiencing hatred? In my town, if anyone says or thinks that homosexuality is not normal for human beings, then he or she is accused of hatred. Our schools wanted to teach my child all about homosexuality and it included things I would choose not to teach my children. It is my perogative as a mom to guide and teach my children as I see fit. Yet, when I spoke my opinions on the matter at our school board meetings, I was heckled, called names, and reamed in the local papers as a bigot. I want to know who was showing the hatred here. This is a common experience across the country.
Your comments?

MaSouth[/quote]
Since you consider the Bible to be your moral guide as well as believe in God I can understand why you would not want your children taught about homosexual practices. You do not strike me as anyone who would provoke the attacks you suffered either. Please in all fairness try to understand that folks like B&P have been attacked physically in many cases by Christians for being gay. Also, please remember Romans 1 has been cited to support these actions against gays as well as the O.T. laws saying for them to be put to death. Some of those people who disagreed with you had this in mind and thought you were out to get rid of the gay folks. More than likely that was the reason you suffered the plight that you did in your school board meetings. This is just my 2 cents worth though.

Barry, I promised Lee I would not post any more anti-bible materials here at GCMDB. If you would like please register as a member at Internet Infidels and we would be delighted to discuss this with you. In fact, one gentleman, a Mr. Mayes, has been taking a severe licking over there even while we speak on this very issue concerning values. Since you are a Disciple of Christ minister this will provide you a perfect opportunity to seek out and save the lost. If you like I will be glad to formally introduce you there. :)

As promised to Lee, I will not discuss Biblical contradiction/reliability/proof issues here any longer.

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A little introduction for myself.

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