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I don't have time to look it up right now, I've got a Bible study to lead, but God condemned the people of one nation or another because their idolatry was their bodies (I'll try to confirm that when I get back).  I'd submit you have just as much a problem in the US on that end, and just as much in the church, and often you have the gluttons and the body-worshipers sitting in judgment of one another.

Once again, it seems that it comes back to my theme verse for the last year...Ecclesiastes 7:18, "The man who fears God will avoid all extremes."

Quote from: Jaime on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 17:19:10

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 16:48:57

Quote from: Jaime on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 15:42:53
jmg,

I don't disagree. My whole reason for engaging in this thread was to vent my frustration at a lot, if not most elderships focusing on the issue of alcohol, when overeating COULD be a far more insidious problem in the life of a deacon candidate or bible class teacher. By no means are all fat people sinners for being that way. By no means is everyone who eats an extra piece of pie a glutton. BUT, it could be a serious spiritual problem in someone's life. I personally believe it IS a serious problem in MY life. I drink a beer on a very rare occasion. In my opinion that is way down on the list of concerns as to my qualification as a deacon or bible teacher. I know I had been nominated as a deacon once. The elders called me in and grilled me as to my views on alkyhol (spelling for hicky pronunciation). I told them I drink a beer on a very rare occasion. I am careful about my influence with it. etc, etc. They never once asked me do I have a problem with food, which I do. Hence my stance that abuse of food is every bit as much a serious spiritual concern as abuse of alcohol.

On occasion I'll have a glass of wine (very, very rarely).  Scripture doesn't teach that drinking alcohol is sinful.  It teaches that drunkeness is sinful -- that is, knowingly and willfully allowing yourself to become drunk. 

How do you define drunkeness? What percent of impairment is OK before "drunk" occurs, biblically speaking? Is 5% impaired allowable, 2%? I don't know the anwer myself. If I knew the answer, my stance might be different.

I already defined drunkeness:  knowingly and willfully allowing yourself to become drunk.

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 16:52:24

Quote from: bvaug on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 16:02:25
Father forgive me for I have commited the sin of gluttony. I still do and can not seem to stop repeating it from time to time. Please chage my heart and give me the strength to over come this deadly sin. I put my fate in your hands Father for it is your strenght that I need. In Christ name I pray.

If I could honestly say that I am guilty of gluttony I would issue the same plea.  But it isn't clear to me exactly what gluttony is.  So it would be hypocritical of me to issue the same plea.

I think gluttony is like pornography. I can't specifically define it to everyone's satisfaction, but I know what it looks like when I see it or experience it in my life.

I can't find the scripture, but there is a verse somewhere that says essentially....to him that thinks somethings is a sin, then to him it is a sin. I hope it's in there somewhere!

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 17:22:07

Quote from: Jaime on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 17:19:10

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 16:48:57

Quote from: Jaime on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 15:42:53
jmg,

I don't disagree. My whole reason for engaging in this thread was to vent my frustration at a lot, if not most elderships focusing on the issue of alcohol, when overeating COULD be a far more insidious problem in the life of a deacon candidate or bible class teacher. By no means are all fat people sinners for being that way. By no means is everyone who eats an extra piece of pie a glutton. BUT, it could be a serious spiritual problem in someone's life. I personally believe it IS a serious problem in MY life. I drink a beer on a very rare occasion. In my opinion that is way down on the list of concerns as to my qualification as a deacon or bible teacher. I know I had been nominated as a deacon once. The elders called me in and grilled me as to my views on alkyhol (spelling for hicky pronunciation). I told them I drink a beer on a very rare occasion. I am careful about my influence with it. etc, etc. They never once asked me do I have a problem with food, which I do. Hence my stance that abuse of food is every bit as much a serious spiritual concern as abuse of alcohol.

On occasion I'll have a glass of wine (very, very rarely).  Scripture doesn't teach that drinking alcohol is sinful.  It teaches that drunkeness is sinful -- that is, knowingly and willfully allowing yourself to become drunk. 

How do you define drunkeness? What percent of impairment is OK before "drunk" occurs, biblically speaking? Is 5% impaired allowable, 2%? I don't know the anwer myself. If I knew the answer, my stance might be different.

I already defined drunkeness:  knowingly and willfully allowing yourself to become drunk.

Brian, I agree with the knowingly and willfully, but at what level of IMPAIRMENT is one at when he is drunk, regardless of the reason. One glass of wine won't make you a stumbling drunk, but one's body is to some extent impaired from one's "tea totaling state."

I may be legally drunk from one beer even though I am not staggering and foaming at the mouth.

Quote from: Jaime on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 17:29:18

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 17:22:07

Quote from: Jaime on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 17:19:10

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 16:48:57

Quote from: Jaime on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 15:42:53
jmg,

I don't disagree. My whole reason for engaging in this thread was to vent my frustration at a lot, if not most elderships focusing on the issue of alcohol, when overeating COULD be a far more insidious problem in the life of a deacon candidate or bible class teacher. By no means are all fat people sinners for being that way. By no means is everyone who eats an extra piece of pie a glutton. BUT, it could be a serious spiritual problem in someone's life. I personally believe it IS a serious problem in MY life. I drink a beer on a very rare occasion. In my opinion that is way down on the list of concerns as to my qualification as a deacon or bible teacher. I know I had been nominated as a deacon once. The elders called me in and grilled me as to my views on alkyhol (spelling for hicky pronunciation). I told them I drink a beer on a very rare occasion. I am careful about my influence with it. etc, etc. They never once asked me do I have a problem with food, which I do. Hence my stance that abuse of food is every bit as much a serious spiritual concern as abuse of alcohol.

On occasion I'll have a glass of wine (very, very rarely).  Scripture doesn't teach that drinking alcohol is sinful.  It teaches that drunkeness is sinful -- that is, knowingly and willfully allowing yourself to become drunk. 

How do you define drunkeness? What percent of impairment is OK before "drunk" occurs, biblically speaking? Is 5% impaired allowable, 2%? I don't know the anwer myself. If I knew the answer, my stance might be different.

I already defined drunkeness:  knowingly and willfully allowing yourself to become drunk.

Brian, I agree with the knowingly and willfully, but at what level of IMPAIRMENT is one at when he is drunk, regardless of the reason. One glass of wine won't make you a stumbling drunk, but one's body is to some extent impaired from one's "tea totaling state."

I may be legally drunk from one beer even though I am not staggering and foaming at the mouth.

I don't think the level of impairment is what makes the action sinful.  The action is sinful because the person is knowingly and willfully allowing himself to become drunk.

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 14:34:58

Quote from: Jaime on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 14:32:03

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 14:25:27
Jamie,

I've given a couple of different ideas of what gluttony can be in this thread:  a special case of idolatry and a special case of greed.

Exactly, those are the 2 main reasons for overeating I would say.

So overeating is not a sin in your opinion?

If it is not a sin, would you agree that it is at least a bad idea, and a possible stumbling block for a weaker brother or sister?

Jamie,

Those are not the only reasons why someone might overeat.  For example, someone might overeat because they still feel physical hunger after they have already consumed what their body requires.

My answer to this is "So?"

People feel hunger every day. Just because we feel it, doesn't mean we have to give in to it. A pedophile feels hunger every day. Has an insatiable craving. Would that excuse work for him/her? I don't think so.

Sexual assault is a sin because we are intentionally harming another person, not loving them as Christ teaches.  I can't find any Scripture that teaches overeating because you are hungry is a sin.

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 16:52:24

Quote from: bvaug on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 16:02:25
Father forgive me for I have commited the sin of gluttony. I still do and can not seem to stop repeating it from time to time. Please chage my heart and give me the strength to over come this deadly sin. I put my fate in your hands Father for it is your strenght that I need. In Christ name I pray.

If I could honestly say that I am guilty of gluttony I would issue the same plea.  But it isn't clear to me exactly what gluttony is.  So it would be hypocritical of me to issue the same plea.

One of the hebrew words translated as "glutton" means "worthless, insignificant". One of the greek words translated as "gluttonous" means "voracious" (which means "greedy in eating"). In today's english, "gluttony" means "eating to excess". Doesn't matter. It is still wrong when viewed in the following way:

When eating is more important than keepings God's Temple pure and healthy, food has become an idol.
When feeding self is more important than feeding the hungry, food has become an idol.
When one has to justify eating to excess, food has become an idol.
When one needs a line drawn as to how much is "excess", food has become an idol.

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:35:48
Sexual assault is a sin because we are intentionally harming another person, not loving them as Christ teaches.  I can't find any Scripture that teaches overeating because you are hungry is a sin.

The principle is the same, Brian. A craving that controls is a sin, whether it's a crime or not.

Anyone who weighs 300+ pounds is not truly hungry.

I know what it means in today's English.  But Scripture wasn't written in today's English.

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:51:19

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:35:48
Sexual assault is a sin because we are intentionally harming another person, not loving them as Christ teaches.  I can't find any Scripture that teaches overeating because you are hungry is a sin.

The principple is the same, Brian. A craving that controls is a sin, whether it's a crime or not.

Anyone who weighs 300+ pounds is not truly hungry.

I don't believe that hunger is necessarily a craving that controls.

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:51:56
I know what it means in today's English.  But Scripture wasn't written in today's English.

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:51:19

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:35:48
Sexual assault is a sin because we are intentionally harming another person, not loving them as Christ teaches.  I can't find any Scripture that teaches overeating because you are hungry is a sin.

The principple is the same, Brian. A craving that controls is a sin, whether it's a crime or not.

Anyone who weighs 300+ pounds is not truly hungry.

I don't believe that hunger is necessarily a craving that controls.

It's controlling if one weighs over 300#.

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:48:31

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 16:52:24

Quote from: bvaug on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 16:02:25
Father forgive me for I have commited the sin of gluttony. I still do and can not seem to stop repeating it from time to time. Please chage my heart and give me the strength to over come this deadly sin. I put my fate in your hands Father for it is your strenght that I need. In Christ name I pray.

If I could honestly say that I am guilty of gluttony I would issue the same plea.  But it isn't clear to me exactly what gluttony is.  So it would be hypocritical of me to issue the same plea.

One of the hebrew words translated as "glutton" means "worthless, insignificant". One of the greek words translated as "gluttonous" means "voracious" (which means "greedy in eating"). In today's english, "gluttony" means "eating to excess". Doesn't matter. It is still wrong when viewed in the following way:

When eating is more important than keepings God's Temple pure and healthy, food has become an idol.
When feeding self is more important than feeding the hungry, food has become an idol.
When one has to justify eating to excess, food has become an idol.
When one needs a line drawn as to how much is "excess", food has become an idol.

It is truly amazing how many ways there are to sin, and how easily we can falter.

Praise God for His abundant grace and mercy!

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:53:38

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:51:56
I know what it means in today's English.  But Scripture wasn't written in today's English.

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:51:19

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:35:48
Sexual assault is a sin because we are intentionally harming another person, not loving them as Christ teaches.  I can't find any Scripture that teaches overeating because you are hungry is a sin.

The principple is the same, Brian. A craving that controls is a sin, whether it's a crime or not.

Anyone who weighs 300+ pounds is not truly hungry.

I don't believe that hunger is necessarily a craving that controls.

It's controlling if one weighs over 300#.

I don't know how you could demonstrate that to be a universal truth.

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:57:53

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:53:38

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:51:56
I know what it means in today's English.  But Scripture wasn't written in today's English.

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:51:19

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:35:48
Sexual assault is a sin because we are intentionally harming another person, not loving them as Christ teaches.  I can't find any Scripture that teaches overeating because you are hungry is a sin.

The principple is the same, Brian. A craving that controls is a sin, whether it's a crime or not.

Anyone who weighs 300+ pounds is not truly hungry.

I don't believe that hunger is necessarily a craving that controls.

It's controlling if one weighs over 300#.

I don't know how you could demonstrate that to be a universal truth.

Why focus on exceptions?

Quote from: Gary on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:59:18

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:57:53

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:53:38

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:51:56
I know what it means in today's English.  But Scripture wasn't written in today's English.

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:51:19

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:35:48
Sexual assault is a sin because we are intentionally harming another person, not loving them as Christ teaches.  I can't find any Scripture that teaches overeating because you are hungry is a sin.

The principple is the same, Brian. A craving that controls is a sin, whether it's a crime or not.

Anyone who weighs 300+ pounds is not truly hungry.

I don't believe that hunger is necessarily a craving that controls.

It's controlling if one weighs over 300#.

I don't know how you could demonstrate that to be a universal truth.

Why focus on exceptions?

I'm not focusing on exceptions.  I'm asking for the general rule.

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 20:00:00

Quote from: Gary on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:59:18

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:57:53

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:53:38

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:51:56
I know what it means in today's English.  But Scripture wasn't written in today's English.

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:51:19

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:35:48
Sexual assault is a sin because we are intentionally harming another person, not loving them as Christ teaches.  I can't find any Scripture that teaches overeating because you are hungry is a sin.

The principple is the same, Brian. A craving that controls is a sin, whether it's a crime or not.

Anyone who weighs 300+ pounds is not truly hungry.

I don't believe that hunger is necessarily a craving that controls.

It's controlling if one weighs over 300#.

I don't know how you could demonstrate that to be a universal truth.

Why focus on exceptions?

I'm not focusing on exceptions.  I'm asking for the general rule.

Generally people that weigh 300 pounds eat too much.

Quote from: Gary on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 20:00:41

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 20:00:00

Quote from: Gary on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:59:18

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:57:53

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:53:38

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:51:56
I know what it means in today's English.  But Scripture wasn't written in today's English.

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:51:19

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:35:48
Sexual assault is a sin because we are intentionally harming another person, not loving them as Christ teaches.  I can't find any Scripture that teaches overeating because you are hungry is a sin.

The principple is the same, Brian. A craving that controls is a sin, whether it's a crime or not.

Anyone who weighs 300+ pounds is not truly hungry.

I don't believe that hunger is necessarily a craving that controls.

It's controlling if one weighs over 300#.

I don't know how you could demonstrate that to be a universal truth.

Why focus on exceptions?

I'm not focusing on exceptions.  I'm asking for the general rule.

Generally people that weigh 300 pounds eat too much.

Duh!  No disagreement there.

One has to be honest with oneself. You can fool yourself for a while, but you can never fool God.

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 20:02:51
One has to be honest with oneself. You can fool yourself for a while, but you can never fool God.

Phoebe,

You appeart to be attempting to judge my heart.

Since leaving high school I have been afflicted with Fork To Mouth (FTM) disease.  I am now taking some steps to combat it, plus it is cheaper on the pocket book.

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:53:38

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:51:56
I know what it means in today's English.  But Scripture wasn't written in today's English.

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:51:19

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:35:48
Sexual assault is a sin because we are intentionally harming another person, not loving them as Christ teaches.  I can't find any Scripture that teaches overeating because you are hungry is a sin.

The principple is the same, Brian. A craving that controls is a sin, whether it's a crime or not.

Anyone who weighs 300+ pounds is not truly hungry.

I don't believe that hunger is necessarily a craving that controls.

It's controlling if one weighs over 300#.

BCV?  Weight is not always an indicator, pheobe.  Like I said earlier, I know plenty 150# gluttons.  Didn't you say something earlier about a need to draw a line being a sign of food having become an idol?  Same goes for "above this weight you're a glutton, below this line you're not".  It's an easy way to whitewash your own tomb and feel OK.

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 20:04:14

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 20:02:51
One has to be honest with oneself. You can fool yourself for a while, but you can never fool God.

Phoebe,

You appeart to be attempting to judge my heart.

Hmmm.... In order for you to say that, you are judging mine. I was making a general statement, "you" being anyone, which could include you, or not.

You seem to be making an excuse for overeating, Brian, trying to justify overeating. I didn't say you overeat, but that you are excusing overeating. That's what I keep seeing in your posts. The 300# was just an example. It could be anything that controls. You know, as you and I have had this discussion before, that I believe that anything that we do that controls us or is more important than God and His desire for us is wrong, it is an idol, and God says we are to have no other god before Him, or, IOW, we are to love Him with everything - our heart, soul, mind, strength. Overeating is only one of those things that can be an idol.

Why would overeating be a sin?

1) Because it is about self-gratification, not about nutitrition for the body, which belongs to God.

2) Because it abuses the temple in which God's Spirit resides. It is flat-out not healthy.

3) Because it is an idol that has replaced God as the source of satisfaction. We find comfort in food, rather than in the Comforter.


Will one go to hell for overeating? I doubt it, but I'm not God, so I can't say for sure. Grace covers a whole lot of stuff, but that isn't the point. The point should be 'How can I best live my life for God's glory?' Is it done by _________? If it isn't, then we shouldn't do it, whether or not the specific action is mentioned by name as a sin in the Bible. We are to bring glory to God by how we live.

Quote from: jmg3rd on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 20:34:15

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:53:38

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:51:56
I know what it means in today's English.  But Scripture wasn't written in today's English.

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:51:19

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 19:35:48
Sexual assault is a sin because we are intentionally harming another person, not loving them as Christ teaches.  I can't find any Scripture that teaches overeating because you are hungry is a sin.

The principle is the same, Brian. A craving that controls is a sin, whether it's a crime or not.

Anyone who weighs 300+ pounds is not truly hungry.

I don't believe that hunger is necessarily a craving that controls.

It's controlling if one weighs over 300#.

BCV?  Weight is not always an indicator, pheobe.  Like I said earlier, I know plenty 150# gluttons.  Didn't you say something earlier about a need to draw a line being a sign of food having become an idol?  Same goes for "above this weight you're a glutton, below this line you're not".  It's an easy way to whitewash your own tomb and feel OK.

What I said was that it seemed someone was asking for a line to be drawn. I don't draw those lines. The 300# was just to give an example. (Most people I know who weigh 300#+ have a problem with self-control. There are rare exceptions where medication can cause such weight gain, but that isn't the same issue as gluttony, which was what the initial question was about. Is anyone who weighs 300# truly hungry when they fill their plate for the third time?)

It isn't about weight at all, although weight may be a fruit, a visual of what is, or is not, within. It's about having the courage to recognize that there is a hole in our lives that we are attempting to fill, for the purpose of self-gratification, with food or something else, rather than God.

I think it's a serious issue, one we like to sweep under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist.

When the men at the front of the line of 200+ at the potluck take 3 or 4 desserts piled on top of a heaping plate of food is it gluttony or just selfishness?

Good point nevertheless.  Which sin would we rather be committing?  Selfishness or Gluttony? Lying or Gossiping?  Lasciviousness or Covetiousness? Greed or deceit?, etc., etc.

jq

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 23:48:32

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 20:04:14

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 20:02:51
One has to be honest with oneself. You can fool yourself for a while, but you can never fool God.

Phoebe,

You appeart to be attempting to judge my heart.

Hmmm.... In order for you to say that, you are judging mine. I was making a general statement, "you" being anyone, which could include you, or not.

You seem to be making an excuse for overeating, Brian, trying to justify overeating. I didn't say you overeat, but that you are excusing overeating. That's what I keep seeing in your posts. The 300# was just an example. It could be anything that controls. You know, as you and I have had this discussion before, that I believe that anything that we do that controls us or is more important than God and His desire for us is wrong, it is an idol, and God says we are to have no other god before Him, or, IOW, we are to love Him with everything - our heart, soul, mind, strength. Overeating is only one of those things that can be an idol.
Will one go to hell for overeating? I doubt it, but I'm not God, so I can't say for sure. Grace covers a whole lot of stuff, but that isn't the point. The point should be 'How can I best live my life for God's glory?' Is it done by _________? If it isn't, then we shouldn't do it, whether or not the specific action is mentioned by name as a sin in the Bible. We are to bring glory to God by how we live.

I agree with what you wrote, except that I don't view eating because you are hungry (even if you have eaten enough to avoid starvation) as being controlled by hunger.  I view it as satisfying a real physical need.

Quote2) Because it abuses the temple in which God's Spirit resides. It is flat-out not healthy.

I don't see that in Scripture.

Quote from: Nevertheless on Fri Feb 02, 2007 - 00:16:53
When the men at the front of the line of 200+ at the potluck take 3 or 4 desserts piled on top of a heaping plate of food is it gluttony or just selfishness?

To me, unless there is enough desserts for everyone to take 3 or 4, it selfish.  I think that might be the same thing as gluttony.

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Fri Feb 02, 2007 - 06:58:51

Quote from: Nevertheless on Fri Feb 02, 2007 - 00:16:53
When the men at the front of the line of 200+ at the potluck take 3 or 4 desserts piled on top of a heaping plate of food is it gluttony or just selfishness?

To me, unless there is enough desserts for everyone to take 3 or 4, it selfish.  I think that might be the same thing as gluttony.

When I was younger it was always the old people that piled on the plates with food, and there was often not very much left for the kids.  So I would go straight for dessert, to get something edible.  And they would complain about no dessert being left.  Darn old gluttons.

Quote from: Gary on Fri Feb 02, 2007 - 07:04:14

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Fri Feb 02, 2007 - 06:58:51

Quote from: Nevertheless on Fri Feb 02, 2007 - 00:16:53
When the men at the front of the line of 200+ at the potluck take 3 or 4 desserts piled on top of a heaping plate of food is it gluttony or just selfishness?

To me, unless there is enough desserts for everyone to take 3 or 4, it selfish.  I think that might be the same thing as gluttony.

When I was younger it was always the old people that piled on the plates with food, and there was often not very much left for the kids.  So I would go straight for dessert, to get something edible.  And they would complain about no dessert being left.  Darn old gluttons.

Now that you are one of the old people, do you leave some dessert for the kids?

Quote from: Nevertheless on Fri Feb 02, 2007 - 00:16:53
When the men at the front of the line of 200+ at the potluck take 3 or 4 desserts piled on top of a heaping plate of food is it gluttony or just selfishness?

Selfishness and self-centerdness is the root of all our sins, is it not?

Quote from: Serenity432001 on Fri Feb 02, 2007 - 07:15:20

Quote from: Nevertheless on Fri Feb 02, 2007 - 00:16:53
When the men at the front of the line of 200+ at the potluck take 3 or 4 desserts piled on top of a heaping plate of food is it gluttony or just selfishness?

Selfishness and self-centerdness is the root of all our sins, is it not?

Pride, I think, is the root of all of our sins.  It manifests itself in many different ways, including selfishness and self-centeredness.

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Fri Feb 02, 2007 - 07:05:46

Quote from: Gary on Fri Feb 02, 2007 - 07:04:14

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Fri Feb 02, 2007 - 06:58:51

Quote from: Nevertheless on Fri Feb 02, 2007 - 00:16:53
When the men at the front of the line of 200+ at the potluck take 3 or 4 desserts piled on top of a heaping plate of food is it gluttony or just selfishness?

To me, unless there is enough desserts for everyone to take 3 or 4, it selfish.  I think that might be the same thing as gluttony.

When I was younger it was always the old people that piled on the plates with food, and there was often not very much left for the kids.  So I would go straight for dessert, to get something edible.  And they would complain about no dessert being left.  Darn old gluttons.

Now that you are one of the old people, do you leave some dessert for the kids?

Not that old yet.  Maybe in about 40+ years.

I doubt that the kids would see it that way. 

Quote from: Nevertheless on Fri Feb 02, 2007 - 00:16:53
When the men at the front of the line of 200+ at the potluck take 3 or 4 desserts piled on top of a heaping plate of food is it gluttony or just selfishness?

Same thing, Never.

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Fri Feb 02, 2007 - 06:57:19

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 23:48:32

Quote from: BrianInChrist on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 20:04:14

Quote from: phoebe on Thu Feb 01, 2007 - 20:02:51
One has to be honest with oneself. You can fool yourself for a while, but you can never fool God.

Phoebe,

You appeart to be attempting to judge my heart.

Hmmm.... In order for you to say that, you are judging mine. I was making a general statement, "you" being anyone, which could include you, or not.

You seem to be making an excuse for overeating, Brian, trying to justify overeating. I didn't say you overeat, but that you are excusing overeating. That's what I keep seeing in your posts. The 300# was just an example. It could be anything that controls. You know, as you and I have had this discussion before, that I believe that anything that we do that controls us or is more important than God and His desire for us is wrong, it is an idol, and God says we are to have no other god before Him, or, IOW, we are to love Him with everything - our heart, soul, mind, strength. Overeating is only one of those things that can be an idol.
Will one go to hell for overeating? I doubt it, but I'm not God, so I can't say for sure. Grace covers a whole lot of stuff, but that isn't the point. The point should be 'How can I best live my life for God's glory?' Is it done by _________? If it isn't, then we shouldn't do it, whether or not the specific action is mentioned by name as a sin in the Bible. We are to bring glory to God by how we live.

I agree with what you wrote, except that I don't view eating because you are hungry (even if you have eaten enough to avoid starvation) as being controlled by hunger.  I view it as satisfying a real physical need.

Quote2) Because it abuses the temple in which God's Spirit resides. It is flat-out not healthy.

I don't see that in Scripture.

Brian - You seem to be viewing this through a very legalist eye. Gluttony or overeating is not about starvation or even hunger. We truly need very little for complete nutrition and satisfying the hunger. The problem is that of self-indulgence and self-gratification.

As to point 2, any doctor, ANY doctor, will tell you it is not healthy to overeat. There are ways of knowing if one is: BP, glucose, BMI, lung capacity, heart rate. No, all of those over the normal readings are not exclusively connected to overeating, but the majority are.

Overeating beyond the satisfaction of hunger is self-indulgence. Overeating to the point of obesity is self-gratification. God needs to be, wants to be, the Satisfier. Why do we fight Him?