Christian Forums

Quote from: Jon-Marc on Sat Aug 04, 2007 - 11:55:01
To answer Yes or no is just an opinion since none of us were there. Since He didn't separate  day from night until the fourth "day", I have my doubts they were actual 24 hour days. Since a day is as 1,000 years and 1,000 years as a day to God, Can we take the "6 days" literally? I always used to until I realized that time means nothing to an eternal God. He created it for our benefit. I'm not trying to limit God since He could haver caused everything to appear instantly had He wanted.

Gen 1:4  God saw the light was good. So God separated the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5  God named the light day, and the darkness he named night. There was evening, then morning-the first day.

God measured the time for us; we know when to take off the seventh day. In God time, which is outside of time, there is no time. But in our world, and in creation time, a day is a day.

FTL

Quote from: soterion on Sat Aug 04, 2007 - 12:19:31
Moses wasn't there either.  However, he wrote by inspiration from the Spirit of God, and God had him write that He created in six days.

From the time God said, "Light be." each day was specified as being an evening and morning.

In Exodus 20:8-11 God gave commandment to the children of Israel to keep the Sabbath because in six days He made the heavens and the earth and the seventh day He rested.

Between the references in Genesis 1 to the day being composed of evening and morning and the command given in Exodus 20 to rest on the seventh as God did, I don't see any good reason to make the days of creation in Genesis 1 figurative instead of accepting them as 24 hour periods of time.

Although the sun and moon weren't in place from the first day doesn't keep God from knowing the actual amount of time spent and giving that info to Moses to record.

My question is since God could have created it all in the blink of an eye, why did He spend so much time as six days to create?

Exo 20:11  In six days the LORD made heaven, earth, and the sea, along with everything in them. He didn't work on the seventh day. That's why the LORD blessed the day he stopped his work and set this day apart as holy.

Mar 2:27  And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

So I could take a nap in the afternoon.

FTL

I really don't care how long God took to go about His business. 

If we give up literal Genesis then we give up literal salvation. That is the reason we should defend the faith that is in us.

FTL

Quote from: janine on Sat Aug 04, 2007 - 16:35:03
I really don't care how long God took to go about His business. 

All of Scripture is built upon Genesis 1, the creation account. Without this, the Bible is without foundation.

Its a shame that you dont care.

Thanks, marc.

I was just thinking the same thing yesterday, but I was too lazy to search the archives. 

Mike

To be honest I do not know.  What I find awesome about Genesis is it is the foundation for the rest of the Bible.  What was the first religous act; it happened in Genesis?

Quote from: Benoni on Sun Aug 05, 2007 - 20:44:49
To be honest I do not know.  What I find awesome about Genesis is it is the foundation for the rest of the Bible.  What was the first religous act; it happened in Genesis?

I don't understand the question.

I see in Genesis spiritual symbolism; the foundation for the rest of the Bible.
First of that which is spiritual is far more relevant, real and higher then that which is flesh or carnal; so what ever our body will be it will be much more then are body is now.  Something's that are in the scriptural are hidden or a mystery (Gk sacred secret) used 27 times in NT.   

Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. (KJV)

In the garden before the fall God covered Adam and Eve with His glory; they lost that glory when they sinned.  So what did they do they looked for another covering to replace that nakedness.   Adam and Eve covered their nakedness with something other then the Glory of God.  Clothing always speaks of our beliefs and understanding.  In the OT the Levitical Priest could not wear wool.  Wool speaks of sweat, or works; there are many examples thought out the Bible to prove this pattern. 

Matt 21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.  20  And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!   

My point is this the fig leaf is symbolic of a covering other then God; religion.


Adam and Eve walked in the garden and found them selves naked.  Before that nakedness they walked and talked with God, ate forbidden fruit and named all the animals. 

Adam and Eve were both...NAKED! Among all the creatures which God made, man stands out unique...stark naked...which means devoid of true wisdom and knowledge, with his inner nature revealed, opened up, exhibited, and made bare. Oh, that God may give us understanding to see that to be naked means to have THE FLESH UNCOVERED AND EXPOSED! In the typology of scripture "the flesh" is the name by which the Holy Spirit designates our outer life of soul and body, our earthly and carnal human nature, literally speaking of that nature which is earthly minded, with its lusts and self-centeredness, its ego and I-will which are in rebellion to the spirit. Thus, the flesh is not the outward, visible man of meat, muscle, and bones, but the nature of the soulical and bodily man.

This nature was in man from the beginning, else Eve (who was of the man) could not have been tempted, nor could they have sinned! This nature could be seen to be in them from the time God lowered them out of their pure spirit existence, in the image and likeness of God, investing them with a body of earth so that man became a living soul. But as long as man was caught up in God he was not aware of it — for he was naked and was not ashamed (Gen. 2:25). Have we not all experienced the same thing?

In seasons when we are caught up in the Spirit of God, flooded with His presence, sin is far from our minds. It is easy to be holy standing in the ecstasy of God's glory! The flesh nature is still there, but in that blessed moment we are not ashamed, for we are unaware.

Pro. 29: 18 Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he. (KJV)

6544  para` (paw-rah');

a primitive root; to loosen; by implication, to expose, dismiss; figuratively, absolve, begin:

KJV-- avenge, avoid, bare, go back, let, (make) naked, set at nought, perish, refuse, uncover.

Quote from: Benoni on Mon Aug 06, 2007 - 08:52:42
My point is this the fig leaf is symbolic of a covering other then God; religion.

The fig leafs were a literal, something used to hide their sin.

I think your importing religion into this passage and such a figurative approach to Genesis will only lead to misinterpretation. Not only there, but elsewhere in the Bible.

Quote from: Benoni on Mon Aug 06, 2007 - 08:52:42Adam and Eve walked in the garden and found them selves naked.  Before that nakedness they walked and talked with God, ate forbidden fruit and named all the animals. 

I don't understand what you mean here, are you suggesting that they were allowed to eat from the tree of good and evil before they fell?

Quote from: Benoni on Mon Aug 06, 2007 - 08:52:42Something's that are in the scriptural are hidden or a mystery (Gk sacred secret) used 27 times in NT.

You should be very careful of this line of thinking, since this is a road that has led many to perdition.

God is a Spirit; you can literalize all the Bible you want to; but all you will get is the out hull; the chaff.


Prov 25:2
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to
search out a matter.

God's people are like the Jews in Jesus time they believe there are no mysteries; nothing hidden; its all literal? (mystery 27 times in NT); well if this is true then lets throw the whole Bible out and close our eyes to the deep things of God.  God is a deep and awesome God and so is His Word; your eyes may see the literal; but God's Word is a mystery and it is hidden and is deep and it flows like a river; not a broken cistern.

Jeremiah 2:13
For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can
hold no water.

Matthew 13
13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

13:14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive;

13:15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.'

13:16 "But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;

The apostle Paul, speaking of the whole armor of God, admonishes the
saints to "put on...the sword of the Spirit, WHICH IS THE WORD OF GOD"
(Eph. 6:17). Then the writer to the Hebrews declares that the sword of
God's word is "QUICK." Quick means living and active — LIFE-GIVING! "For
the word of God that speaks is alive and full of power — making it
active, operative, energizing and effective; it is sharper than any
two-edged sword" (Heb. 4:12, Amplified). Ah, yes, here is the sword that
conquers the death in us and GIVES LIFE! As it is written, "It is the
spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing...for the letter
killeth, but the spirit giveth life!" (Jn. 6:63; II Cor. 3:6). The sword
of the Spirit is the quickening, energizing, life-giving WORD OF GOD!
I shall not hesitate to explain to you,  that there are two aspects of the Word
of God. Jesus Christ is the Word — the Logos —

THE LIVING, CREATIVE WORD! But there is also that word which Paul calls "the
letter." The letter is the outer hull, the record and history, the laws
and commandments, the rules and regulations, the types, shadows and
figures, the external ordinances, rituals, ceremonies, and feasts; the
visible form of the word which tells us, in terms understandable by the
natural mind, many things about the Living Word, Jesus Christ. As I
meditated upon the Cherubim and the flaming sword in Genesis, the Spirit
spoke within me, saying, "The flaming sword is a word!" Then in a sudden
burst of divine illumination the truth of it dawned powerfully upon me.
Christ is the Word, the Living Word, and IN HIM IS LIFE! But the flaming
sword at the portal of Eden is a word, not the Word, not the living Word,
but the form of the Word, that is, A WORD about THE WORD!

There is a lot more to the Bible then literal there are types, patterns, mysteries, shadows, parables, allegories etc.  But the Bible uses these literal things to point to the things of the spirit.  If all it takes to be spiritual is to go to church every Sunday and follow all the rules and regulations then we would have a very spiritual harmonious church system out there.   If the New Testament has any thing to say the it uses the word hear 128 times.  This does not mean with natural ears that hang on the side of your head.  But how can a natural man hear God if he rejects everything spiritual

Benoni,

There is a reason I warn you of this path, because the secret things belong to God; thats why they are secret.

Deu 29:29 
The secret [things belong] unto the LORD our God: but those [things which are] revealed [belong] unto us and to our children for ever, that [we] may do all the words of this law.

God reveals his secrets to his chosen.

Mat 16:17
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 

Mat 13:11
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 

If God wants your to know something it is revealed in his Word, not by private interpretation. The Scripture is Gods full and perfect revelation, and there is no revelation outside of Scriptures.

If you are seeking secret wisdom, or mystic knowledge through a symbolic understanding of Scripture, I again would warn you of the path because it ultimately leads to gnosticism.

CSloan

You are right it is not a matter of private interpretation nor should it be a matter of a religious interpretation; that is what the Spirit of Truths job is to lead and guide us into all truth not some religion.  Religious man is against any new revelation or anointing; because they limit God to the literal, the religious.  Anti Christ or anti anointing it means the same thing. 

Symbolism is as much in understanding scripture as the parable Jesus spoke to; Revelations. When I hear the lamb of God I do not think that Jesus is a baby sheep eating grass in some farmers pasture; nor if I read my sheep know my voice do I believe God has a bunch of full grown sheep that have human ears.   No a sheep is a full grown mature willing vessel, a lamb is pure and without blemish.  Please do not reject symbolism because it does not fit your old wine skin.  God's Word is a hidden Word you seem to agreed but where we part is that you believe I deceived.  Take manna both in the NT and the OT which is a symbolism that points to how we should receive God's Word.  Remember the OT conceals Christ where the NT reveals Chrsit.

Hidden Manna

Revelation 2:17
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches (Gk) outcalled/assembles). To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.

1 Corin 10:11   
Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.

This chapter in the New Testament shows us that God uses both His Old and New Testament for our admonition and King James inserted the word "World

Quote from: Benoni on Mon Aug 06, 2007 - 16:01:29Please do not reject symbolism because it does not fit your old wine skin.  God's Word is a hidden Word you seem to agreed but where we part is that you believe I deceived.

I never suggested I reject symbolism, but I don't import things into the text that aren't there. Like personal prejudices and biases against religion. And I never said you were deceived, go back an carefully reread my posts; you will find no such accusation.

I simply warned you about private interpretation, and reading things into the text. A practice that has dire consequences.

Quote from: Benoni on Mon Aug 06, 2007 - 16:01:29It takes more then God's Word to understand the scriptures it takes His spirit also

1Jo 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

I have no problem with religion; God uses them all in limited ways; God's people depend on religion and limit their understanding to there dogmas and creeds.


Jeremiah 51:7  Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the
earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

Quote from: Benoni on Mon Aug 06, 2007 - 16:35:53
I have no problem with religion; God uses them all in limited ways; God's people depend on religion and limit their understanding to there dogmas and creeds.


Jeremiah 51:7  Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the
earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

I think its apparent you have a problem with "religion" since you just equated it with Revelation 17:5, but I would be curious to know more about what falls under this umbrella of "religion" in your eyes.

Can you please specify as to what this "religion" is you kept referring to in your posts?

All religions

Quote from: Benoni on Mon Aug 06, 2007 - 16:48:09
All religions

Thats not very specific.

I even said please...

There is a true Church with in us all without spot of wrinkle.  Then there is a false church made of man made dogmas, creeds that limit God to their carnal human religious understanding in other words Baby lon (note spelling (joke) with a little message)

Jeremiah 2:13

"My people have committed two sins: They have forsaken me, the spring of living water, and have dug their own cisterns, broken cisterns that cannot hold water.

What is a cistern but four hard walls that hold water/water is symbolic of God's Word.  We cannot contain God's Word in a box; we must let it flow like a river.  We have before us the most awesome life given expression of God right in front of us.  What do people do with it; they put it in a little social box called religion. So much of God's deepness is not revealed to us for this very reason.  God is Spirit; not a brain; His Word is a hidden Word the deeper you go.   

I prefer the Webster definition:  Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
- re•li•gion•less adjective

Quote from: zoonance on Sat Aug 04, 2007 - 12:43:08
Or why a flood?  Why not just start over instead of a big boat and further difficult explanations as to the diversity of flora and fauna on this earth?  (Which is even much less than millions of years over trillians of acres, isolated by water, diverse in climates, etc etc etc.)

Gen 3:15  I will make you and the woman hostile toward each other. I will make your descendants and her descendant hostile toward each other. He will crush your head, and you will bruise his heel."

Heb 6:18  God did this so that we would be encouraged. God cannot lie when he takes an oath or makes a promise. These two things can never be changed. Those of us who have taken refuge in him hold on to the confidence we have been given.

The promise was already given.

FTL

Quote from: CSloan on Sat Aug 04, 2007 - 21:14:30

Quote from: janine on Sat Aug 04, 2007 - 16:35:03
I really don't care how long God took to go about His business. 

All of Scripture is built upon Genesis 1, the creation account. Without this, the Bible is without foundation.

Its a shame that you dont care.

Allow me to rephrase.

I wasn't there.  No one I know was there.  No one who took quill in hand to write down God-words on the original papyrii and parchments and leathers was there.

Because of the reiteration of the story of Origins and because arguments can be made that "figurative" does not mean "false", I maintain an open mind to the fact that you, I, anyone, could possibly maybe just maybe not have absorbed ALL of God's truth yet, as regards historical details.

For all those reasons and probably a long and boring list of several more, I don't care that I do not know how God numbered hours and days as He created all that is.

I also don't care that there are folks who think they do know.

On both sides of the fence.

If my beginnings of understanding about the topic prove to be off-course, and when I die I find out that God set His creation up as some sort of process, something Darwin might have designed if he were God --

And when I get to Heaven I find out that my cousin the gorilla and my cousin the orangutan have a place there -- ("I've got a maaaan-sion, just up in the tree-top..." --

Then, lovely.  I will live in the house of my Lord forever with my hairy cousins.

If my beginnings of understanding about the topic prove to be on-course, and when I die I find out that a lot of stuff in Scripture people took as figurative was a lot more literal than people thought --

Then, lovely.  I will live in the house of my Lord forever with my astonished evolutionist Christian brethren.

That's what I mean by, "I don't care".

I love christians make out how spiritual principles are somehow not real and imaginary; by their very words the literal is more real then the spiritual.  I praise God that God is not so shallow and carnal.  God is a spirit that does by no means make Him an imaginary creature; what it should show us that which is literal is but the outer shell, the chaff.  Jesus said the well was deep; he was speaking about a natural well with real water; BUT it pointed to a deep spiritual well that flows from deep with in. 

When Adam fell from God's grace in The Garden of Eden; He fell from a place of grace and became as a beast or flesh (same as the Beast or it's mark in Book of Revelations).  Adam was a son of God; just like Jesus who is the second Adam.  Religion looks for answers everywhere they can find them, be it the natural world, human history or tradition.   The answer to the Bible is the Bible; just got to let the Spirit of Truth open the mystery; then it is no longer a mystery. 

I might add, the word breath or cool; same word as in Genesis 3:8 according to Strong's
OT:7307: ruwach (roo'-akh); from OT:7306; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions):

Genesis 3: 8And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool (or spirit of the day)of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

Quote from: Benoni on Mon Aug 06, 2007 - 17:03:10
There is a true Church with in us all without spot of wrinkle.

Can you explain more of what you mean "There is a true church within us all..."?

I love Jeremiah 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

We have lost our first love and have turned to another other then God's anointing within (anti anointing/anti Christ same thing).  This is where the true Church is it is not made up of man made creed dogmas and 20,000 denominational systems; it is simply Christ with in us the hope of glory.  Today men follow Popes and preacher and ministry not because we are touching the hem of His garment but because it is what we been taught.  If you are Roman Catholic (Baptist/Pentecostal/Mormon/etc) because your Father was Roman Catholic, you're Grand Father or what ever.  Or maybe you have actually heard God's voice and are walking in the abode he showed you; but there is always more, it gets deeper and wider.  In my Fathers house are many mansions; or Greek abiding place.   So do you brother have a different abiding place then all of us.  My place is not to condemn that abiding place but to seek, ask and knock to know God in a deeper abiding place that I am now. 
God has a deep hidden awesome Word that men just like the Jews in Jesus time cannot receive because it does not fit in their old worn out wine skins.  I have been in a number of FORUM and be honest with you I cannot speak truth here because I would be banned.   Banned because the God's Word cuts though all those broken cistern that can hold no water.  Banned because what is more important to religion is to defend their turf and bias.  How can anyone believe they can control God's Word because they have a certain truth; sure if they put up barriers and let nothing in they might control it for a season; but those walls are tumbling down as I speak.  I had a Christian just tell me the other day there has been no new revelation sense the third century; the whole Bible is so pregnant with hidden truth, hidden mysteries and most of God's people are so blinded by their religion and have only religious eyes and are babes spiritually speaking.   

John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (KJV)


The outward religions will always be flawed; it is the Christ with in where there we will find the church without spot or wrinkle

Quote from: Benoni on Tue Aug 07, 2007 - 12:01:52it is the Christ with in where there we will find the church without spot or wrinkle

I read and reread your post a couple time, and this is the closest statement that could resemble an answer to the question I asked. But we all know that the church is found in Christ, thats not what I asked:

Quote from: Benoni on Mon Aug 06, 2007 - 17:03:10
There is a true Church with in us all without spot of wrinkle.

What does that mean that "There is a true church within us all..."?

Quote from: Harold on Mon Aug 06, 2007 - 17:19:45

Quote from: zoonance on Sat Aug 04, 2007 - 12:43:08
Or why a flood?  Why not just start over instead of a big boat and further difficult explanations as to the diversity of flora and fauna on this earth?  (Which is even much less than millions of years over trillians of acres, isolated by water, diverse in climates, etc etc etc.)

Gen 3:15  I will make you and the woman hostile toward each other. I will make your descendants and her descendant hostile toward each other. He will crush your head, and you will bruise his heel."

Heb 6:18  God did this so that we would be encouraged. God cannot lie when he takes an oath or makes a promise. These two things can never be changed. Those of us who have taken refuge in him hold on to the confidence we have been given.

The promise was already given.

FTL

But why a flood and not a virus with 8 chosen immune individuals?  I don't mean that I need to question why God does/did what he does/did.  But he left me with a brain and an ability to measure reality.   In any other realm, the literal aspects of Genesis would be rejected.  Only by adding faith does my mind have to be thrown out of the bath water.   Even naming all the animals in a day looking for an acceptable mate (all of them were male and female, why not humans?)   Then the flood with ALL the animals?  and their food?  (even if one has to make up how God did it - ie.  He made them physiologically unneeding of food for over a year.   The numbers don't work.  Neither does forcing only baby dinosaurs on board explanation.   I am not convinced that science and reality took a back seat.  I don't claim to know either!  But "I believe the literal aspects of Genesis because the rest of scripture rests on it" is not as solid ground as I would like to stand on.  It demands I either chunk my brain out the window or attempt to make up scenarios that are equally devoid of reality in order to "prove" it means just what it says.    I confess, claiming that Genesis doesn't mean what it says is uncomfortable and fair game for accusations, but the same head that tries to grasp that God became man et al does not need to force stories in order to surrender to faith.  Even in a 6,000 year old planet, Mt. Ararat isn't a catapult big enough to cover  the earth again in such a short time nor is it a big enough vacuum to suck every species toward it fast enough.   Goes back to "why a boat?"  That's His business.  Using my brain - What else is a guy supposed to do?  If truth is truth, then an explanation shouldn't be all that difficult!

Quote from: zoonance on Tue Aug 07, 2007 - 12:23:16But why a flood and not a virus with 8 chosen immune individuals?

I think that God choose the flood to demonstrate his hatred for sin, and judgment upon the entire earth. I also think this is a picture of what is to come in final judgement.

The evidence for the flood, massive fossil grave yards, visible destruction to the earth is a witness to just how serious sin is in the eyes of God. Nothing was exempt from the effects of the flood. Animals, people, birds, insects all felt the wrath of God without mercy.

If anything, this should serve as a warning.

Theologic meanings are not hard to miss.  Evidence - both for and against - either supports or detracts from a conclusion.   The evidence used and the evidence debunked are not likely to demonstrate the truth as long as the seeker picks and chooses the evidence that moves toward what the conclusion has to be.  I do think it is fair to allow the intellect the opportunity to praise the giver of intellect by engaging it.  Not as a "god" but as a member of the body we are encouraged to use when dealing with knowledge and wisdom.

Quote from: janineI wasn't there.  No one I know was there.  No one who took quill in hand to write down God-words on the original papyrii and parchments and leathers was there.

You do know Jesus, and He said in the beginning they were made male and female. Since He is the creator I would assume he knows.

Quote from: zooBut why a flood and not a virus with 8 chosen immune individuals?

Just think of the stink, water buried all, or most of the dead things. How many animals do you think were on the ark, we only need two of each kind. 2dogs, 2cows, and .......etc.  Check out http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/noah.asp

FTL

Hearing what God's Spirit is speaking and not what man and His religion has spoken

Quote from: Harold on Tue Aug 07, 2007 - 13:07:08

Quote from: janineI wasn't there.  No one I know was there.  No one who took quill in hand to write down God-words on the original papyrii and parchments and leathers was there.

You do know Jesus, and He said in the beginning they were made male and female. Since He is the creator I would assume he knows.

Quote from: zooBut why a flood and not a virus with 8 chosen immune individuals?

Just think of the stink, water buried all, or most of the dead things. How many animals do you think were on the ark, we only need two of each kind. 2dogs, 2cows, and .......etc.  Check out http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/noah.asp

FTL

2 tigers, 2 wombats, 2 dodo birds, two black spotted newts, two japanese newts, 2 galapagos tortoises, 2 leopard tortoises, 2 hingedback tortoises, 2 mud turtles, 2 red eared sliders, 2... 

One can argue subspecies (with a rapid 'evolution' to explain the adaptations - if no evolutionary genetic fine adjustments, then kind begetting kind would strictly demand 2 of EVERY living thing or they would either be lost or they shouldn't be here today a measly couple of thousand years later) but not only would one have to explain genetic distinctions as well as adaptations (thick white fur in the artic as opposed to thin hair in the south - genetically, kind begatting kind and all)  Nor can one not put them on a distant island on the opposite ends of Ararat.    I did not look up answers in genesis this evening but I am aware of their attempts at explaining the evidence - both pro and con.

Quote from: zoonance on Tue Aug 07, 2007 - 17:40:20

Quote from: Harold on Tue Aug 07, 2007 - 13:07:08

Quote from: janineI wasn't there.  No one I know was there.  No one who took quill in hand to write down God-words on the original papyrii and parchments and leathers was there.

You do know Jesus, and He said in the beginning they were made male and female. Since He is the creator I would assume he knows.

Quote from: zooBut why a flood and not a virus with 8 chosen immune individuals?

Just think of the stink, water buried all, or most of the dead things. How many animals do you think were on the ark, we only need two of each kind. 2dogs, 2cows, and .......etc.  Check out http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/noah.asp

FTL

2 tigers, 2 wombats, 2 dodo birds, two black spotted newts, two japanese newts, 2 galapagos tortoises, 2 leopard tortoises, 2 hingedback tortoises, 2 mud turtles, 2 red eared sliders, 2... 

One can argue subspecies (with a rapid 'evolution' to explain the adaptations - if no evolutionary genetic fine adjustments, then kind begetting kind would strictly demand 2 of EVERY living thing or they would either be lost or they shouldn't be here today a measly couple of thousand years later) but not only would one have to explain genetic distinctions as well as adaptations (thick white fur in the artic as opposed to thin hair in the south - genetically, kind begatting kind and all)  Nor can one not put them on a distant island on the opposite ends of Ararat.    I did not look up answers in genesis this evening but I am aware of their attempts at explaining the evidence - both pro and con.

Diversity in kind is a common event, diversity across kinds is a non event. They only needed two newts to start with. Once land locked they adapt to their environment, and it does not take very long.

FTL

who says?

Quote from: zoonance on Wed Aug 08, 2007 - 12:29:17
who says?

Where is a cross kind?

How many dogs types do we have and how long did it take to get there?

FTL

Quote from: Harold on Wed Aug 08, 2007 - 15:09:52
How many dogs types do we have and how long did it take to get there?

The answer would depend on who you talk to.

The evolutionist would say millions of years, the young earth creationist would say 4400 years dating to the flood.