Christian Forums

Quote from: CSloan on Tue Aug 21, 2007 - 21:04:39

Quote from: ravenlorre on Tue Aug 21, 2007 - 21:00:12

Quote from: marc on Tue Aug 14, 2007 - 14:27:29
I split this off because I'm always interested in Chick Tract discussions.  They bring out strong emotions on both sides.  For me, they take me back to my childhood, sitting in a doctor's waiting room reading these tracts that drew me in for the same reason that I liked Poe and scary stories and horror comics. 

The second I discover Chick Tracks in a professional office is the second I leave.  I will not tolerate Jack's hate pamphlets for a moment, and certainly wouldn't allow a dentist to work in my mouth after I found out he read that garbage.

Yes, this IS how I really feel :)

blessings

Since you never introduced yourself, I might as well ask; are you a Christian?

Yes.  I am a Christian who attends a Catholic Church.  Sorry I never introduced myself.

blessings

And here I had assumed you were Roger Corman!   

Quote from: volkmarThe interesting thing to me is that Adam and Eve FREELY chose to sin...out of a totally free-of-sin will and nature.  Whereas you and I "in Adam" choose to follow our sinful nature and sin.

It was always man's nature to please himself, so it has always been our nature to sin.

Where it says person it is gender inclusive, most of newer translations do that. (GWT)

Sin entered the world through Adam, then death because of that sin. All of creation was cursed to die. We die because we sin, just like Adam you choose to sin. The Bible says the son will not be judged for the sins of the father, but will be judged for his own sin. As you said Adam is the father of us all, I will be judged on my own sin not Adam's.

FTL

Quote from: ravenlorre on Tue Aug 21, 2007 - 22:50:46

Quote from: CSloan on Tue Aug 21, 2007 - 21:04:39

Quote from: ravenlorre on Tue Aug 21, 2007 - 21:00:12

Quote from: marc on Tue Aug 14, 2007 - 14:27:29
I split this off because I'm always interested in Chick Tract discussions.  They bring out strong emotions on both sides.  For me, they take me back to my childhood, sitting in a doctor's waiting room reading these tracts that drew me in for the same reason that I liked Poe and scary stories and horror comics. 

The second I discover Chick Tracks in a professional office is the second I leave.  I will not tolerate Jack's hate pamphlets for a moment, and certainly wouldn't allow a dentist to work in my mouth after I found out he read that garbage.

Yes, this IS how I really feel :)

blessings

Since you never introduced yourself, I might as well ask; are you a Christian?

Yes.  I am a Christian who attends a Catholic Church.  Sorry I never introduced myself.

blessings

Its a shame you consider something that has lead thousands of souls to Christ garbage.

QuoteIts a shame you consider something that has lead thousands of souls to Christ garbage.

McDonald's serves millions of people fat / salt / empty calories in the shape of hamburgers, everyday and it could be argued that they are stopping hunger on a superficial level, but we all know the consequences of consuming garbage rather than eating nourishing food.  I am just calling it like I see it - Big Mac and Big Chick - like two clots in a artery

I am wondering, why is it ok for Jack to distort the truth about say - Catholicism, in order to present a dumbed down version of McChristianity to the masses?  Whenever Hollywood does the same thing Christians start beating the drums of protest - and Hollywood is a lot nicer than Jack.

blessings

Quote from: ravenlorre on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 15:45:16

QuoteIts a shame you consider something that has lead thousands of souls to Christ garbage.

McDonald's serves millions of people fat / salt / empty calories in the shape of hamburgers, everyday and it could be argued that they are stopping hunger on a superficial level, but we all know the consequences of consuming garbage rather than eating nourishing food.  I am just calling it like I see it - Big Mac and Big Chick - like two clots in a artery

I am wondering, why is it ok for Jack to distort the truth about say - Catholicism, in order to present a dumbed down version of McChristianity to the masses?  Whenever Hollywood does the same thing Christians start beating the drums of protest - and Hollywood is a lot nicer than Jack.

blessings

Well said....manna for you.

   

Quote from: broach972 on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 17:39:05

Quote from: ravenlorre on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 15:45:16

QuoteIts a shame you consider something that has lead thousands of souls to Christ garbage.

McDonald's serves millions of people fat / salt / empty calories in the shape of hamburgers, everyday and it could be argued that they are stopping hunger on a superficial level, but we all know the consequences of consuming garbage rather than eating nourishing food.  I am just calling it like I see it - Big Mac and Big Chick - like two clots in a artery

I am wondering, why is it ok for Jack to distort the truth about say - Catholicism, in order to present a dumbed down version of McChristianity to the masses?  Whenever Hollywood does the same thing Christians start beating the drums of protest - and Hollywood is a lot nicer than Jack.

blessings

Well said....manna for you.

   

YES!!! My first manna! - thanks friend:)

blessings

Quote from: ravenlorre on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 15:45:16

QuoteIts a shame you consider something that has lead thousands of souls to Christ garbage.

McDonald's serves millions of people fat / salt / empty calories in the shape of hamburgers, everyday and it could be argued that they are stopping hunger on a superficial level, but we all know the consequences of consuming garbage rather than eating nourishing food.  I am just calling it like I see it - Big Mac and Big Chick - like two clots in a artery

I am wondering, why is it ok for Jack to distort the truth about say - Catholicism, in order to present a dumbed down version of McChristianity to the masses?  Whenever Hollywood does the same thing Christians start beating the drums of protest - and Hollywood is a lot nicer than Jack.

blessings

If your whole argument is founded in your disagreement with his depiction of catholicism, you are being very superficial indeed. Catholicism is not his only tract subject, and you should rejoice that someone is trying to reach the lost. If thousands of people have been reached in this manner, who are you to judge a laborer of the harvest?

This all started because I said, I read the Chic tract Big Daddy.

FTL

and a group hug ya'll.

Quote from: CSloan on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 18:03:50

Quote from: ravenlorre on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 15:45:16

QuoteIts a shame you consider something that has lead thousands of souls to Christ garbage.

McDonald's serves millions of people fat / salt / empty calories in the shape of hamburgers, everyday and it could be argued that they are stopping hunger on a superficial level, but we all know the consequences of consuming garbage rather than eating nourishing food.  I am just calling it like I see it - Big Mac and Big Chick - like two clots in a artery

I am wondering, why is it ok for Jack to distort the truth about say - Catholicism, in order to present a dumbed down version of McChristianity to the masses?  Whenever Hollywood does the same thing Christians start beating the drums of protest - and Hollywood is a lot nicer than Jack.

blessings

If your whole argument is founded in your disagreement with his depiction of catholicism, you are being very superficial indeed. Catholicism is not his only tract subject, and you should rejoice that someone is trying to reach the lost. If thousands of people have been reached in this manner, who are you to judge a laborer of the harvest?

I agree that it would be somewhat bias of me to be critical of Chick Tracts if they were only spreading lies about Catholicism, but this is not the case.  You are correct, Chick Tracts target and mock and slander a wide variety of beliefs that Jack disagrees with.  I will always rejoice when God places people on the road to salvation, however I will never support the ministries of heretics, charlatans, or hate-mongers simply because God chose to intervene in the lives of the unsaved at their rallies (or reading Chick Tracts) instead of at the grocery store.

The end does not justify the means.  The first time the truth was distorted, humanity was munching apples in the Garden; next frame we were toiling and separated from God - call me gun shy, but I am not a big fan of liars, even if they claim to have the best intentions.

blessings

Quote from: ravenlorre on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 20:40:24

Quote from: CSloan on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 18:03:50

Quote from: ravenlorre on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 15:45:16

QuoteIts a shame you consider something that has lead thousands of souls to Christ garbage.

McDonald's serves millions of people fat / salt / empty calories in the shape of hamburgers, everyday and it could be argued that they are stopping hunger on a superficial level, but we all know the consequences of consuming garbage rather than eating nourishing food.  I am just calling it like I see it - Big Mac and Big Chick - like two clots in a artery

I am wondering, why is it ok for Jack to distort the truth about say - Catholicism, in order to present a dumbed down version of McChristianity to the masses?  Whenever Hollywood does the same thing Christians start beating the drums of protest - and Hollywood is a lot nicer than Jack.

blessings

If your whole argument is founded in your disagreement with his depiction of catholicism, you are being very superficial indeed. Catholicism is not his only tract subject, and you should rejoice that someone is trying to reach the lost. If thousands of people have been reached in this manner, who are you to judge a laborer of the harvest?

I agree that it would be somewhat bias of me to be critical of Chick Tracts if they were only spreading lies about Catholicism, but this is not the case.  You are correct, Chick Tracts target and mock and slander a wide variety of beliefs that Jack disagrees with.  I will always rejoice when God places people on the road to salvation, however I will never support the ministries of heretics, charlatans, or hate-mongers simply because God chose to intervene in the lives of the unsaved at their rallies (or reading Chick Tracts) instead of at the grocery store.

The end does not justify the means.  The first time the truth was distorted, humanity was munching apples in the Garden; next frame we were toiling and separated from God - call me gun shy, but I am not a big fan of liars, even if they claim to have the best intentions.

blessings

The ends do justify the means according to the Apostle Paul.

Phl 1:18
What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. 

(That was the second time I had to post that passage in this thread...)

QuoteThe ends do justify the means according to the Apostle Paul.

Phl 1:18
What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. 

(That was the second time I had to post that passage in this thread...)

So let me get this straight - you are claiming that Paul is advocating for salvation of souls by any means possible?

Quote from: ravenlorre on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 22:25:34

QuoteThe ends do justify the means according to the Apostle Paul.

Phl 1:18
What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. 

(That was the second time I had to post that passage in this thread...)

So let me get this straight - you are claiming that Paul is advocating for salvation of souls by any means possible?

Read the passage in context, it speaks for itself.

Quote from: CSloan on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 22:28:08

Quote from: ravenlorre on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 22:25:34

QuoteThe ends do justify the means according to the Apostle Paul.

Phl 1:18
What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. 

(That was the second time I had to post that passage in this thread...)

So let me get this straight - you are claiming that Paul is advocating for salvation of souls by any means possible?

Read the passage in context, it speaks for itself.

Philippians 1

15It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.[c] 18But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

Hmm....well since you are not willing to answer my question, I will explain my understanding of the verse.  Paul is sitting in prison and people are trying to discredit his ministry, but instead of getting mad about being slandered, Paul choses to see the bright side of the situation - even slanderers may lead to people turning to Christ.

Paul is not supportive of the practices or ministries of liars or charalatins - he is merely following Christ by turning the other cheek and trusting in God.  If he believed the people to be Christian, and he was out of prison, I have no doubt he would confront the people involved.

I've already said that I am happy when God chooses to intervene in the life of the non-Christian; however, this is a separate issue from choosing to not support a ministry based on hate - like Jack Chick who claims to be a Christian.

blessings

Ravenlorre, when I first came back to this forum back in July, I thought I was the only Catholic here.  This has been a very inviting forum, and many here are eager to discuss and learn.  However, at times, it has been quite a struggle, and the conversations haven't always been pleasant.  But, just in the past week, I have been blessed to read posts from you and Mllevaleur.  I guess the Lord sent in the calvary...lol.  Welcome, indeed.

Quote from: ravenlorre on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 22:45:26
Philippians 1

15It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.[c] 18But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

Hmm....well since you are not willing to answer my question, I will explain my understanding of the verse.  Paul is sitting in prison and people are trying to discredit his ministry, but instead of getting mad about being slandered, Paul choses to see the bright side of the situation - even slanderers may lead to people turning to Christ.

Paul is not supportive of the practices or ministries of liars or charalatins - he is merely following Christ by turning the other cheek and trusting in God.  If he believed the people to be Christian, and he was out of prison, I have no doubt he would confront the people involved.

I've already said that I am happy when God chooses to intervene in the life of the non-Christian; however, this is a separate issue from choosing to not support a ministry based on hate - like Jack Chick who claims to be a Christian.

blessings

Well done.  More manna for you...you are on a roll.

Quote from: ravenlorre on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 22:45:26

Quote from: CSloan on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 22:28:08

Quote from: ravenlorre on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 22:25:34

QuoteThe ends do justify the means according to the Apostle Paul.

Phl 1:18
What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. 

(That was the second time I had to post that passage in this thread...)

So let me get this straight - you are claiming that Paul is advocating for salvation of souls by any means possible?

Read the passage in context, it speaks for itself.

Philippians 1

15It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.[c] 18But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

Hmm....well since you are not willing to answer my question, I will explain my understanding of the verse.  Paul is sitting in prison and people are trying to discredit his ministry, but instead of getting mad about being slandered, Paul choses to see the bright side of the situation - even slanderers may lead to people turning to Christ.

Paul is not supportive of the practices or ministries of liars or charalatins - he is merely following Christ by turning the other cheek and trusting in God.  If he believed the people to be Christian, and he was out of prison, I have no doubt he would confront the people involved.

I've already said that I am happy when God chooses to intervene in the life of the non-Christian; however, this is a separate issue from choosing to not support a ministry based on hate - like Jack Chick who claims to be a Christian.

blessings

You never said anything about not supporting his ministry, you called his tracts common trash and slandered his person. If he disagrees with your organization thats one thing, but I doubt he ever slandered you personally. If anyone here should be questioning someones Christianity, I don't think it should be you questioning his.

If you don't agree with him fine, but don't make yourself look like a hypocrite trying to deface him.

Broach, all you are doing is trying to turn a simple discussion into a conflict. Just quit.

The end does not justify the means

That is not what the word of God says... But, opps... I forgot, that is not the final authority for those who are Catholic, is it.

I guess when you make it up as you go along, you are going to read things differently than God actually wrote them.

Broach? The Calvary?

LOL... Sooo... It's the "US" against "THEM" syndrome?

This went from being about Chick tracs to be about Catholics validating Catholics...  That is a hoot.   

Quote from: kensington on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 23:26:46
LOL... Sooo... It's the "US" against "THEM" syndrome?

I think that this is the way you and CSloan prefer it.  At least that is the way you have always seen it.

Quote from: CSloan on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 23:18:11
Broach, all you are doing is trying to turn a simple discussion into a conflict. Just quit.

LOL...when it comes to discussing Catholicism with you, there is no such thing as a "simple" discussion.

Quote from: kensington on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 23:26:46
I guess when you make it up as you go along, you are going to read things differently than God actually wrote them.

CSloan does it all the time... (I couldn't resist...love ya Chuck).

Jam 3:6
And the tongue [is] a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. 

Quote from: broach972 on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 23:28:48

Quote from: kensington on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 23:26:46
LOL... Sooo... It's the "US" against "THEM" syndrome?

I think that this is the way you and CSloan prefer it.  At least that is the way you have always seen it.

"ALWAYS"?  Are you sure about that?  I mean, how long have you known me?  Or, how well?

ALWAYS... is such a blanket statement.   

Php 1:17  Those others do not have pure motives as they preach about Christ. They preach with selfish ambition, not sincerely, intending to make my chains more painful to me.
Php 1:18  But that doesn't matter. Whether their motives are false or genuine, the message about Christ is being preached either way, so I rejoice. And I will continue to rejoice. (NLT)

Just so we understand, they are teaching the Good News correctly, just with the wrong motive.

OK back to fussing. 

FTL

Quote from: CSloan on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 23:18:11

Quote from: ravenlorre on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 22:45:26

Quote from: CSloan on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 22:28:08

Quote from: ravenlorre on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 22:25:34

QuoteThe ends do justify the means according to the Apostle Paul.

Phl 1:18
What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. 

(That was the second time I had to post that passage in this thread...)

So let me get this straight - you are claiming that Paul is advocating for salvation of souls by any means possible?

Read the passage in context, it speaks for itself.

Philippians 1

15It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.[c] 18But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

Hmm....well since you are not willing to answer my question, I will explain my understanding of the verse.  Paul is sitting in prison and people are trying to discredit his ministry, but instead of getting mad about being slandered, Paul choses to see the bright side of the situation - even slanderers may lead to people turning to Christ.

Paul is not supportive of the practices or ministries of liars or charalatins - he is merely following Christ by turning the other cheek and trusting in God.  If he believed the people to be Christian, and he was out of prison, I have no doubt he would confront the people involved.

I've already said that I am happy when God chooses to intervene in the life of the non-Christian; however, this is a separate issue from choosing to not support a ministry based on hate - like Jack Chick who claims to be a Christian.

blessings

You never said anything about not supporting his ministry, you called his tracts common trash and slandered his person. If he disagrees with your organization thats one thing, but I doubt he ever slandered you personally. If anyone here should be questioning someones Christianity, I don't think it should be you questioning his.

If you don't agree with him fine, but don't make yourself look like a hypocrite trying to deface him.

Broach, all you are doing is trying to turn a simple discussion into a conflict. Just quit.

I am finished with this thread.  I stand by my posts.  I believe that Jack Chick distorts the truth in his ministry in order to spread his idea of the gospel.  Not only do I believe his belief system to be far too narrow; I believe it is not based on loving his neighbor, but coercing people into accepting a belief system that belittles and demeans others.  Therefore I do not support his ministry.

blessings

Quote from: Harold on Thu Aug 23, 2007 - 11:01:07
Php 1:17  Those others do not have pure motives as they preach about Christ. They preach with selfish ambition, not sincerely, intending to make my chains more painful to me.
Php 1:18  But that doesn't matter. Whether their motives are false or genuine, the message about Christ is being preached either way, so I rejoice. And I will continue to rejoice. (NLT)

Just so we understand, they are teaching the Good News correctly, just with the wrong motive.

OK back to fussing. 

FTL

As does Jack, examine his gospel synopses.

Quote from: kensington on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 23:26:46
The end does not justify the means

That is not what the word of God says... But, opps... I forgot, that is not the final authority for those who are Catholic, is it.

BCV please.

Quote from: CSloan on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 22:28:08

Quote from: ravenlorre on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 22:25:34

QuoteThe ends do justify the means according to the Apostle Paul.

Phl 1:18
What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. 

(That was the second time I had to post that passage in this thread...)

So let me get this straight - you are claiming that Paul is advocating for salvation of souls by any means possible?

Read the passage in context, it speaks for itself.

Is God saying that the end justifies the means, or is he saying that God can triumph even through our imperfect efforts?

The Machiavellian idea of ends justifying means means that whatever we do is okay, as long as the proper results are acheived.  This flies in the face of Jesus' teaching.  See the sermon on the mount when Jesus contrasts the Pharisees' "righteousness" with service and obedience that comes from the heart.

Here's the context from Philippians 1

Quote12Now I want you to know, brothers, that what has happened to me has really served to advance the gospel. 13As a result, it has become clear throughout the whole palace guard and to everyone else that I am in chains for Christ. 14Because of my chains, most of the brothers in the Lord have been encouraged to speak the word of God more courageously and fearlessly.
15It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

Is Paul implying that those who preach the gospel out of selfishness and envy are justified?  Of course not!  He's merely saying that because the gospel itself is preached, God is glorified. 

That doesn't mean that this is the way to preach.

And furthermore, here it is definitely the gospel being preached.  With Chick, this concept is sometimes in doubt.  Gospel must necessarily be truth.


Can good come from Chick tracts? Of course.  God can make good come from anything, anywhere.  If Christ is preached, people will be drawn to him.

Does this justify Chick's prejudices, half-truths, and outright deceptions?

I don't believe so.

Quote from: CSloan on Thu Aug 23, 2007 - 11:17:45

Quote from: Harold on Thu Aug 23, 2007 - 11:01:07
Php 1:17  Those others do not have pure motives as they preach about Christ. They preach with selfish ambition, not sincerely, intending to make my chains more painful to me.
Php 1:18  But that doesn't matter. Whether their motives are false or genuine, the message about Christ is being preached either way, so I rejoice. And I will continue to rejoice. (NLT)

Just so we understand, they are teaching the Good News correctly, just with the wrong motive.

OK back to fussing. 

FTL

As does Jack, examine his gospel synopses.

What if I don't have a KJV of the Bible, will it count? 
 
FTL

Quote from: marc on Thu Aug 23, 2007 - 12:15:32

Quote from: CSloan on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 22:28:08

Quote from: ravenlorre on Wed Aug 22, 2007 - 22:25:34

QuoteThe ends do justify the means according to the Apostle Paul.

Phl 1:18
What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. 

(That was the second time I had to post that passage in this thread...)

So let me get this straight - you are claiming that Paul is advocating for salvation of souls by any means possible?

Read the passage in context, it speaks for itself.

Is God saying that the end justifies the means, or is he saying that God can triumph even through our imperfect efforts?

The Machiavellian idea of ends justifying means means that whatever we do is okay, as long as the proper results are acheived.  This flies in the face of Jesus' teaching.  See the sermon on the mount when Jesus contrasts the Pharisees' "righteousness" with service and obedience that comes from the heart.

Here's the context from Philippians 1

Quote12Now I want you to know, brothers, that what has happened to me has really served to advance the gospel. 13As a result, it has become clear throughout the whole palace guard and to everyone else that I am in chains for Christ. 14Because of my chains, most of the brothers in the Lord have been encouraged to speak the word of God more courageously and fearlessly.
15It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. 18But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

Is Paul implying that those who preach the gospel out of selfishness and envy are justified?  Of course not!  He's merely saying that because the gospel itself is preached, God is glorified. 

That doesn't mean that this is the way to preach.

And furthermore, here it is definitely the gospel being preached.  With Chick, this concept is sometimes in doubt.  Gospel must necessarily be truth.


Can good come from Chick tracts? Of course.  God can make good come from anything, anywhere.  If Christ is preached, people will be drawn to him.

Does this justify Chick's prejudices, half-truths, and outright deceptions?

I don't believe so.

Well said!

Quote from: Lee Freeman on Tue Aug 14, 2007 - 15:39:31
... Chick makes conservative CoC tracts on "The Lord's Church" look tame by comparison...

Some of our stuff I've seen is just as condescending and error-filled.  The difference is, we don't usually have lurid,   scare-mongering, creepy comic-book-style art in our pamphlets.  

Most of our pamphlets have zero entertainment value.

Quote from: don has a plan on Mon Aug 20, 2007 - 16:22:52
It's difficult for people who are not "Bible only" Christians to communicate with "Bible only" Christians.  I'm not a "Bible only" Christian.  I think Scripture, tradition, reason--and, to some extent, experience--are all windows through which we can see God... 

I am a "Bible-only" Christian -- after being raised up a little Catholic girl, doily on the head and patent leather shoes and First Communion and Confirmation and all.  I received many good, useful things out of that Catholic upbringing.  As far as I'm concerned, I remain a Catholic almost the same way Paul the Apostle remained, completely, a Jew.  It's a cultural and inherited thing with me, too.

I say that to say this: we, the Bible-Only people -- at least those of us with any sense -- we know there are ever so many ways to know things about God besides the Bible.  Experience, Nature, interaction with other people, History -- all sorts of windows into small facets of God.

The difference is, we try to only hold ourselves -- and you -- and those folks over there -- accountable in light of the Bible.  The other knowledge can be 'way too subjective, absorbed through a filter of everything from culture to reading level to intelligence.  We try to draw back to basics, and to as much black-and-white as possible, when it comes time to urge ourselves or you or anyone else to change a stance.

That's our ideal, anyway.  I'm  sure you've met folks like us who fail at it; I know you must've, 'cause I've failed at it from time to time.

I personally believe that this is the worst form of communication of getting the gospel out to the people. Jack Chick tracts uses fear and intimidation in their attempt to bring people to God. I don't see anything in the Chick tracts to explain that God is full of grace, love, and mercy. Furthermore, his attack on the Roman Catholic Church is full of hate and that my friend, is wrong!!!  

From Catholic Answers:

Chick has still sold over half a billion tracts in the forty-year life of his company, and he is still selling tens of thousands of copies per day.  Chick and his tracts are deceiving countless individuals—both Protestants and Catholics. That's why he can continue to print and sell so many tracts. Someone is paying the printing and distribution costs for all these tracts. People really do respond to them.

If you care about the cause of truth—and Jesus is the Truth (John 14:6)—then you must do what you can to fight the errors found in these tracts.

   * If you are an ordinary church member—Protestant or Catholic—you can get more general information on Jack Chick from Catholicism and Fundamentalism and The Usual Suspects by Karl Keating. For added help, check out www.catholic.com.
     
   * If you are a Catholic, you now know answers to many of the anti-Catholic slurs Chick makes in his tracts—and you have seen the principles to use in answering them. Ref:  The Nightmare World of Jack T. Chick
     
   * If you are a Protestant, you have seen something of the magnitude of Chick's misrepresentation of the Catholic faith. Even though you may disagree with parts of the Catholic faith, you know enough now to recognize that Chick tracts fundamentally misrepresent it and are not good witnessing tools.
     
   * If you are an Evangelical bookstore owner, you have seen the gross distortions of Catholic teaching and the paranoid conspiracy theories that he weaves around the Catholic Church. You know that—regardless of your differences with the Catholic Church—distributing Chick tracts to your patrons will do a disservice to the body of Christ by spreading error, fear, and prejudice among your customers.
     
   * And if you are an employee of Chick Publications—or even Jack Chick himself—you have seen a more thorough answer to the material in your tracts than you may have seen before. Numerous errors and misrepresentations have been documented. You now know why, if you are to be a faithful servant of Christ, these tracts must be pulled from the market and the presentation of Catholics in your publications must be changed.

In the love of Jesus Christ,

—Catholic Answers

I'm not a fan of tracts, period.

It's just lazy evangelism.