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1. Extrabiblical Authority: All cults deny what God says in His Word as true. Cults have shifted their theological point of authority away from God's full and final written Word, the Bible, to their own unique, self-promoting opinions about the Bible; they generally will use parts of the Bible but will have their own unique scripture which is considered to be superior to the Bible. While some cult groups give token respect for the Bible and go through the motions of accepting the authority of Scripture, in reality, they honor the group's or leader's novel interpretation of Scripture as normative.

2. Works Salvation/Legalism: Cults teach that eternal life depends upon something other than the Atonement; i.e., faith in the atoning, finished work of Christ on the cross is deemed not to be sufficient (usually replaced with human works and human responsibility). Rather than relying on the grace of God alone for salvation, the salvation message of the cults always boils down to required obedience to, or abstention from, certain obligations and practices (some even including obedience to the Old Testament law).

3. No Assurance of Salvation: The issue of a cult member's salvation is never settled, but is constantly affected by the changing circumstances of life; in this way, cult leaders are able to produce continued obligation and spiritual bondage, rather than spiritual freedom.

4. Guru-Type Leader/Modern Prophet: The cult leader is looked to as the infallible interpreter of Scripture, specially appointed by God to be a special saint, guru, or contemporary messiah, and thereby, has divine authority that must not be violated. Cultists almost always quote their leader rather than the Bible. The cult's adherents often expound the virtues of the founders and seek to cover the founder's sins and wickedness.

5. Vacillating, Ambiguous Doctrines/Spiritual Deception: In order to gain favor with the public, and thereby aid in the recruitment of new members, cult "doctrine" tends to be characterized by many false or deceptive claims concerning the cult's true spiritual beliefs (e.g., Mormons are not quick to reveal their belief that God was a man, who has now become the God of planet Earth).

6. Exclusivity from/Denunciation of Other Groups: Each cult group, regardless of what other doctrines are taught, will all have this one common idea -- "The Only True Church Syndrome." The members of each specific organization have been taught that their church, organization, or community, is the only true group and that all other groups are false. The group's leaders will explain that it is impossible to serve God without being a member of the specific group. Moreover, when the cult leader announces himself as the true "Messiah," all others are declared to be dishonest, deceitful, and deluded, and must be put down; alternative views are denounced as being satanic and corrupt. Persecution is welcomed, and even glorified in, as "evidence" that they are being persecuted for righteousness sake. Thus, if a member decides to leave the group, they have been told that they are not simply leaving an organization, but rather they are leaving God and His only true organization. Hence, for a member of a cult who has been in a group for any length of time, the action of leaving the group is much more difficult than what most Christians understand. To leave the group is, in the minds of the cult member, tantamount to leaving God.

7. Claims of Special Discoveries/Additional Revelation: Acceptance of new, contemporary, continual revelations that either deny the Bible or are allowed to explain it. The fundamental characteristic of Christianity is that it is historical, not dependent upon private knowledge and secret, unconfirmable relationships, while the almost universal basis of cult religion is the claimed exclusive revelation that one person has supposedly received. Rather than conforming to Biblical rules of evidence (2 Cor. 13:1), cult leader revelations almost always emanate from hallucinations, visions, dreams, private discoveries, etc. These new revelations often become codified as official written "scripture" of the cults (e.g., The Book of Mormon), and are considered as valid as that of the apostles (and even more relevant because they are given in these end times).

8. Defective Christology: Cults always have a false view of the nature of the Person of Jesus Christ; a cult will usually deny the true deity of Christ, His true humanity, His true origin, or the true union of the two natures in one Person.

9. Defective "Nature of Man": Most cults do not see man as an immortal being; instead they see him either as an animal without a soul or as a being which is being perfected to the point of becoming a god. They usually do not see man as a spirit clothed in a body of flesh awaiting the redemption of body and soul.

10. Out-Of-Context Scripture Use as Proof-Texts/Segmented Biblical Attention: Cults tend to focus on one verse or passage of the Bible to the exclusion of others, and without regard for the context in which Scripture is given (e.g., 1 Cor. 15:29 used by Mormons to justify baptism for the dead). In addition, cults have made an art form out of using Christian terminology, all the while pouring out their own meanings into the words.

11. Erroneous Doctrines Concerning Life After Death and Retribution: Covering the gamut from soul sleep to annihilationism to purgatory to universalism to the progression to godhood, cults invariably deny the existence of a final judgment of, and a final "resting" place for, the unrighteous.

12. Entangling Organization Structure: The less truth a movement represents, the more highly it seems to have to organize itself; the absence of truth seems to make necessary the application of the bonds of fear. Cults often demand total commitment by their converts to an organizational involvement that entangles them in a complicated set of human restrictions, giving the impression of passionate and often irrational devotion to a cause. 

13. Financial Exploitation: The cultic practitioner strongly implies that money contributed to the cause will earn the contributor numerous gifts, powers, and abilities, and in many cases, outright salvation.

14. Pseudomystical/Spiritistic/Occultic Influence: Occult influence is many times found in either the origin of the group and/or in its current practices.

So how many of the categories have to apply before you can determine if a church is really a cult or not?

It seems to me that someone created a list of all the qualities that do not describe Protestant churches and called it "qualities of all cults".

Are you sure you aren't simply describing nonProtestant Churches, rather than cults?

blessings

Quote from: ravenlorre on Wed Aug 29, 2007 - 18:39:59
So how many of the categories have to apply before you can determine of a church is really a cult or not?

It seems to me that someone created a list of all the qualities that do not describe Protestant churches and called it "qualities of a cult".

Are you sure you aren't simply describing nonProtestant Churches, rather than cults?

blessings

Some may fit in that category, but surely not something like #8.

In my opinion, it is much easier to determine whether or not a religion is heretical - simply study their view of the nature of God.  All false religions and Protestant cults have warped views of the Trinity; it was true with the heresies in the early church and is still true today.

blessings

Quote from: ravenlorre on Wed Aug 29, 2007 - 18:54:48
In my opinion, it is much easier to determine whether or not a religion is heretical - simply study their view of the nature of God.  All false religions and Protestant cults have warped views of the Trinity; it was true with the heresies in the early church and is still true today.

blessings

What about Catholic cults?  Aren't there any of those?

Quote from: Gary on Wed Aug 29, 2007 - 19:03:00

Quote from: ravenlorre on Wed Aug 29, 2007 - 18:54:48
In my opinion, it is much easier to determine whether or not a religion is heretical - simply study their view of the nature of God.  All false religions and Protestant cults have warped views of the Trinity; it was true with the heresies in the early church and is still true today.

blessings

What about Catholic cults?  Aren't there any of those?

Yes.  I like to call them pseudo-Catholic groups; in any case - Pius X is a perfect example of a pseudo-Catholic group.

blessings

Quote from: CSloan on Wed Aug 29, 2007 - 18:11:06

The Marks of a Cult* 

1. Extrabiblical Authority: All cults deny what God says in His Word as true. Cults have shifted their theological point of authority away from God's full and final written Word, the Bible, to their own unique, self-promoting opinions about the Bible; they generally will use parts of the Bible but will have their own unique scripture which is considered to be superior to the Bible. While some cult groups give token respect for the Bible and go through the motions of accepting the authority of Scripture, in reality, they honor the group's or leader's novel interpretation of Scripture as normative.

2. Works Salvation/Legalism: Cults teach that eternal life depends upon something other than the Atonement; i.e., faith in the atoning, finished work of Christ on the cross is deemed not to be sufficient (usually replaced with human works and human responsibility). Rather than relying on the grace of God alone for salvation, the salvation message of the cults always boils down to required obedience to, or abstention from, certain obligations and practices (some even including obedience to the Old Testament law).

3. No Assurance of Salvation: The issue of a cult member's salvation is never settled, but is constantly affected by the changing circumstances of life; in this way, cult leaders are able to produce continued obligation and spiritual bondage, rather than spiritual freedom.

4. Guru-Type Leader/Modern Prophet: The cult leader is looked to as the infallible interpreter of Scripture, specially appointed by God to be a special saint, guru, or contemporary messiah, and thereby, has divine authority that must not be violated. Cultists almost always quote their leader rather than the Bible. The cult's adherents often expound the virtues of the founders and seek to cover the founder's sins and wickedness.

5. Vacillating, Ambiguous Doctrines/Spiritual Deception: In order to gain favor with the public, and thereby aid in the recruitment of new members, cult "doctrine" tends to be characterized by many false or deceptive claims concerning the cult's true spiritual beliefs (e.g., Mormons are not quick to reveal their belief that God was a man, who has now become the God of planet Earth).

6. Exclusivity from/Denunciation of Other Groups: Each cult group, regardless of what other doctrines are taught, will all have this one common idea -- "The Only True Church Syndrome." The members of each specific organization have been taught that their church, organization, or community, is the only true group and that all other groups are false. The group's leaders will explain that it is impossible to serve God without being a member of the specific group. Moreover, when the cult leader announces himself as the true "Messiah," all others are declared to be dishonest, deceitful, and deluded, and must be put down; alternative views are denounced as being satanic and corrupt. Persecution is welcomed, and even glorified in, as "evidence" that they are being persecuted for righteousness sake. Thus, if a member decides to leave the group, they have been told that they are not simply leaving an organization, but rather they are leaving God and His only true organization. Hence, for a member of a cult who has been in a group for any length of time, the action of leaving the group is much more difficult than what most Christians understand. To leave the group is, in the minds of the cult member, tantamount to leaving God.

7. Claims of Special Discoveries/Additional Revelation: Acceptance of new, contemporary, continual revelations that either deny the Bible or are allowed to explain it. The fundamental characteristic of Christianity is that it is historical, not dependent upon private knowledge and secret, unconfirmable relationships, while the almost universal basis of cult religion is the claimed exclusive revelation that one person has supposedly received. Rather than conforming to Biblical rules of evidence (2 Cor. 13:1), cult leader revelations almost always emanate from hallucinations, visions, dreams, private discoveries, etc. These new revelations often become codified as official written "scripture" of the cults (e.g., The Book of Mormon), and are considered as valid as that of the apostles (and even more relevant because they are given in these end times).

8. Defective Christology: Cults always have a false view of the nature of the Person of Jesus Christ; a cult will usually deny the true deity of Christ, His true humanity, His true origin, or the true union of the two natures in one Person.

9. Defective "Nature of Man": Most cults do not see man as an immortal being; instead they see him either as an animal without a soul or as a being which is being perfected to the point of becoming a god. They usually do not see man as a spirit clothed in a body of flesh awaiting the redemption of body and soul.

10. Out-Of-Context Scripture Use as Proof-Texts/Segmented Biblical Attention: Cults tend to focus on one verse or passage of the Bible to the exclusion of others, and without regard for the context in which Scripture is given (e.g., 1 Cor. 15:29 used by Mormons to justify baptism for the dead). In addition, cults have made an art form out of using Christian terminology, all the while pouring out their own meanings into the words.

11. Erroneous Doctrines Concerning Life After Death and Retribution: Covering the gamut from soul sleep to annihilationism to purgatory to universalism to the progression to godhood, cults invariably deny the existence of a final judgment of, and a final "resting" place for, the unrighteous.

12. Entangling Organization Structure: The less truth a movement represents, the more highly it seems to have to organize itself; the absence of truth seems to make necessary the application of the bonds of fear. Cults often demand total commitment by their converts to an organizational involvement that entangles them in a complicated set of human restrictions, giving the impression of passionate and often irrational devotion to a cause. 

13. Financial Exploitation: The cultic practitioner strongly implies that money contributed to the cause will earn the contributor numerous gifts, powers, and abilities, and in many cases, outright salvation.

14. Pseudomystical/Spiritistic/Occultic Influence: Occult influence is many times found in either the origin of the group and/or in its current practices.

From: http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/marksof.htm

Amen! 

CSloan

Excellent post.  Are you old enough to remember Jim Jones?

Some of the things you listed can be found in your neighborhood church.

The gospel is the guiding light, everything should be tried in the light of the gospel. All of the cults have one thing in common, they are all man centered.  Beware of men.

'christian' cults often dabble in removing the importance of an aspect of the trinity, or redefining one of it's persons into something non-biblical.

Jesus = only a man, the Spirit is only a force, God was/is a man.

dj

In our time, most 'cults' have risen out of Protestantism. 

I won't name churches that strike me as cults because I'm sure that would get me permanently banned from this site.

I don't like this list. It's biased, and seems to make cults out to be some kind of bad thing.

Quote from: Robert Pate on Wed Aug 29, 2007 - 20:34:55
CSloan

Excellent post.  Are you old enough to remember Jim Jones?

Some of the things you listed can be found in your neighborhood church.

The gospel is the guiding light, everything should be tried in the light of the gospel. All of the cults have one thing in common, they are all man centered.  Beware of men.

Yes I know about Jim Jones, but I was only 3 when the horror of Jonestown occured. I do have a number of cults in my area, including a LDS right down the street from me.

Quote from: Just As I Am on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:02:35Do you think perhaps Charlie has a point?

Nope.

Consider the 276 dead children from the afore mentioned Jonestown.

Quote from: CSloan on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:03:50

Quote from: Just As I Am on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:02:35Do you think perhaps Charlie has a point?

Nope.

Consider the 276 dead children from the afore mentioned Jonestown.

That sounds like an answer, but it's not, it's an emotional appeal to look beyond the question.

Quote from: charlie on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 11:35:12
I don't like this list. It's biased, and seems to make cults out to be some kind of bad thing.

And I'm not supposed to choke and snort tea out my nose all over the keyboard when I read this?

CSloan

Jim Jones was the devil incarnate.  I think that the total death toll was over 900.  Some of the cult leaders lead their congregation into a death pact.
"Beware of men"  Matthew 10:17.  

Quote from: jmg3rd on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:10:24

Quote from: CSloan on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:03:50

Quote from: Just As I Am on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:02:35Do you think perhaps Charlie has a point?

Nope.

Consider the 276 dead children from the afore mentioned Jonestown.

That sounds like an answer, but it's not, it's an emotional appeal to look beyond the question.

To the stark reality of what cultism has done.

charlie

Please list what you don't like about the orignal post so that we can better understand your objections.

The list is totally subjective.  Depending upon one's own worldview, another person could come up with a completely different list. 

I found some cult characteristics on another site that some of you might find interesting --

The cult claims that they have the only way -- the only way to Heaven, or to salvation, or spirituality, or eternal bliss, or higher knowledge, or sanity, or mental powers, or recovery...

The cult members are special -- they are morally and spiritually superior to the common rabble who haven't been "saved" and who don't have The Big Answer...

The deceit that "we have no structure or system", when in fact they have a very despotic system of control.

Denigration of competing sects, cults, or religions.  A corollary to cults' claims of having The Only Way is the assertion that "the other people" do not have The Way. "They" are all misguided and missing the boat, and "they" won't be going to Heaven.


I can definitely think of some groups that meet each of these very subjective criteria.  I wonder why we're so anxious to label those who disagree with us as cultists, heretics, apostates, etc.  Projection, perhaps?

Quote from: janine on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:17:10

Quote from: charlie on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 11:35:12
I don't like this list. It's biased, and seems to make cults out to be some kind of bad thing.

And I'm not supposed to choke and snort tea out my nose all over the keyboard when I read this?

ok not just me!  but coffee not tea!!!

a cult is very simply any religious movement that is man centered rather than Jesus centered, and that takes control over people thru ignorance and fear. They also whether knowing it or not are anti-chirst, although it may be very subtle. the difference between a cult and church is this: the church will still be Christ centered and not try to control its members, now it may be a bad church that misinturprets bible theology and practices, but not at the core base, that God is supreme, Jesus is our only salvation.

Quote from: CSloan on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:22:42

Quote from: jmg3rd on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:10:24

Quote from: CSloan on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:03:50

Quote from: Just As I Am on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:02:35Do you think perhaps Charlie has a point?

Nope.

Consider the 276 dead children from the afore mentioned Jonestown.

That sounds like an answer, but it's not, it's an emotional appeal to look beyond the question.

To the stark reality of what cultism has done.

But that's not the question you were asked.

Quote from: jmg3rd on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 14:59:31

Quote from: CSloan on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:22:42

Quote from: jmg3rd on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:10:24

Quote from: CSloan on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:03:50

Quote from: Just As I Am on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:02:35Do you think perhaps Charlie has a point?

Nope.

Consider the 276 dead children from the afore mentioned Jonestown.

That sounds like an answer, but it's not, it's an emotional appeal to look beyond the question.

To the stark reality of what cultism has done.

But that's not the question you were asked.

Charlie said this:

Quote from: charlie on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 11:35:12
I don't like this list. It's biased, and seems to make cults out to be some kind of bad thing.

Then after some brief obfuscation I was asked if I thought he had a point. I thought I was pretty clear, but in case you didn't get it the first time: No, I do think cults are a bad thing.

Any further questions?

No use gettin' wound up is there?

So how do we know the person who made the list is not a cult?

The list is OK but is it the guide line?

Quote from: kamakaz on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 14:35:25

Quote from: janine on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:17:10

Quote from: charlie on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 11:35:12
I don't like this list. It's biased, and seems to make cults out to be some kind of bad thing.

And I'm not supposed to choke and snort tea out my nose all over the keyboard when I read this?

ok not just me!  but coffee not tea!!!

a cult is very simply any religious movement that is man centered rather than Jesus centered, and that takes control over people thru ignorance and fear. They also whether knowing it or not are anti-chirst, although it may be very subtle. the difference between a cult and church is this: the church will still be Christ centered and not try to control its members, now it may be a bad church that misinturprets bible theology and practices, but not at the core base, that God is supreme, Jesus is our only salvation.

Better guide line.

FTL

Quote from: CSloan on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 16:36:07

Quote from: jmg3rd on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 14:59:31

Quote from: CSloan on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:22:42

Quote from: jmg3rd on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:10:24

Quote from: CSloan on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:03:50

Quote from: Just As I Am on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 12:02:35Do you think perhaps Charlie has a point?

Nope.

Consider the 276 dead children from the afore mentioned Jonestown.

That sounds like an answer, but it's not, it's an emotional appeal to look beyond the question.

To the stark reality of what cultism has done.

But that's not the question you were asked.

Charlie said this:

Quote from: charlie on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 11:35:12
I don't like this list. It's biased, and seems to make cults out to be some kind of bad thing.

Then after some brief obfuscation I was asked if I thought he had a point. I thought I was pretty clear, but in case you didn't get it the first time: No, I do think cults are a bad thing.

Any further questions?

Well, you know what this guy would say...

No can't say I would could you please enlighten me?

"Cults are bad... Mmmkay..."

Thats it ?  Looks like he had lots more to say. Maybe he better let it out before his head explodes.

Quote from: Just As I Am on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 22:52:41

Quote from: bvaug on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 22:48:59
Thats it ?  Looks like he had lots more to say. Maybe he better let it out before his head explodes.

Memories of the "Last Post Thread" run through my head as I read this between you two! 

LOL... Those were the days!

Quote from: James Rondon on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 22:44:49
"Cults are bad... Mmmkay..."

Quote from: Just As I Am on Thu Aug 30, 2007 - 22:51:54Did you happen to take a look at the link to the book I mentioned CSloan?

No, to be honest I didn't.

On thinking about it I am with Charley on this one and I don't like it either.  I am wondering why CSLoan needed to start this thread? Was it something that was said on another.  I remember some sort of confession coming from CSLoan about way he had handled the Catholic discussions?  Is this something stemmed from that in which case I really don't like this and hope the moderators do something about this one. I feel sure that CSLoan is trying to undermine the Catholic Church in some way. I apologise now if I am wrong but this is what I think this is the subtle message of the board and yet we have all been told not to judge others and that the Catholic Church is Christian. I really am not happy with the topic of cults and hope someone is going through it with a very fine comb and drawing out all possibilities it hasn't any subtle messages against the Catholic Church!

Quote from: ann on Fri Aug 31, 2007 - 13:06:50
On thinking about it I am with Charley on this one and I don't like it either.  I am wondering why CSLoan needed to start this thread? Was it something that was said on another.  I remember some sort of confession coming from CSLoan about way he had handled the Catholic discussions?  Is this something stemmed from that in which case I really don't like this and hope the moderators do something about this one. I feel sure that CSLoan is trying to undermine the Catholic Church in some way. I apologise now if I am wrong but this is what I think this is the subtle message of the board and yet we have all been told not to judge others and that the Catholic Church is Christian. I really am not happy with the topic of cults and hope someone is going through it with a very fine comb and drawing out all possibilities it hasn't any subtle messages against the Catholic Church!

I resent your accusations that I started this thread with a hidden motive. But if anyone has drawn the conclusion that this list points to the catholic church, it seems to be you.

I am not accusing, I am being up front about how I feel on this post!  If you read my post carefully enough you will read that I have apologised up front if this is not the case. YOu are just as quick to jump to conclusions that are wrong. Please read my post through once again and you will find that I have apologised if  this is not the case. CSloan, the apology is there if you care to read it and therefore I am not targeting or anything, just voicing my concern of the purpose of this thread.  Please read my post again before posting again.

QuoteOn thinking about it I am with Charley on this one and I don't like it either.  I am wondering why CSLoan needed to start this thread? Was it something that was said on another.  I remember some sort of confession coming from CSLoan about way he had handled the Catholic discussions?  Is this something stemmed from that in which case I really don't like this and hope the moderators do something about this one. I feel sure that CSLoan is trying to undermine the Catholic Church in some way. I apologise now if I am wrong but this is what I think this is the subtle message of the board and yet we have all been told not to judge others and that the Catholic Church is Christian. I really am not happy with the topic of cults and hope someone is going through it with a very fine comb and drawing out all possibilities it hasn't any subtle messages against the Catholic Church!

I completely agree with you, Ann.  Whether that was the original poster's intent or not, the original poster has become so tainted as anti-Catholic in the last few days that I cannot see beyond that.  I look at everything the original poster writes with suspicious eyes.