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For the most part church structure in the US is about tax exemption. Thus state and federal government have  rules to ensure the status. However there is another side to church structure evolving leaders who strive for a Biblical outcome. Does it really matter how the church is organized today?

Wow, what a heafty question to ask.

So long as everyone knows that God is the main powerful force.
So long as everyone who goes to that organisation is health and safety in place
So long as no-one wants to be leader of the organisation
So long as no-one wants a preacher
So long as no-one wants full immersion baptism
So long as no-one wants burial
So long as no-one wants a confidential listening ear
So long as no-one wants marriage
So long as no-one wants education
So long as no-one wants anything organised

You can be as free as you choose.  Go and worship on a hillside. When three or more are gathered in the name of the Lord and pray he will hear you.  Does he say that you have to be a part of a formal organised 'church'?
All the above stuff is in place because through out time people in general have asked for it.  It doesn't have to be there to pray and believe in God.  But people have a habit of getting together and organising things.  Be as free as you can if that is what you would prefer

Quote from: MarkHooper on Fri Dec 21, 2007 - 23:34:10


For the most part church structure in the US is about tax exemption. Thus state and federal government have  rules to ensure the status. However there is another side to church structure evolving leaders who strive for a Biblical outcome. Does it really matter how the church is organized today?

Mark, obviously you are talking about the physical church organization ran by men.

There is another church ran by the Spirit (Holy Spirit) and, TO ME they are not the same.

It seems that the physical church ran by men has taken on a life of it's own. It has become an entity that is separate from the children of God. It seems to stand between man and God.

Richard

QuoteIt seems that the physical church ran by men has taken on a life of it's own. It has become an entity that is separate from the children of God. It seems to stand between man and God.

Could you expound on this more. Spiritual structure is not mentioned often when we talk about organization even when we speak about elders or deacons. For instance what is a church budget in the spiritual realm? What  does it mean to hold and maintain property? Or what does it mean when you get fired from the church?

Quote from: MarkHooper on Sat Dec 29, 2007 - 17:48:56

QuoteIt seems that the physical church ran by men has taken on a life of it's own. It has become an entity that is separate from the children of God. It seems to stand between man and God.

Could you expound on this more. Spiritual structure is not mentioned often when we talk about organization even when we speak about elders or deacons. For instance what is a church budget in the spiritual realm? What  does it mean to hold and maintain property? Or what does it mean when you get fired form the church?

Very funny Mark. The Spiritual Church is not a physical organization built and ran by men (1 Peter 2:4-5). It has no budget, it has no physical property, no one gets fired, there are no deacons, no elders. ---- It is made up of  those that God has made children of God. It is ran by the Holy Spirit. --- Surely you know this Spiritual Church?

Richard

You know I'm not sure if I do? As much as I have battled the tide I think I am now in the thick of it. Only recently I have heard of mutual edification churches and I'm still baffled by it for it was  started by a para church organization. But spiritual organization sounds like an oxymoron. Now I can free myself from the binds of how church is run but the 40 people I fellowship with in a multimillion dollar property a cell tower a house rental and rooms to rent in the building see it very differently.

Quote from: MarkHooper on Sat Dec 29, 2007 - 23:47:08

You know I'm not sure if I do? As much as I have battled the tide I think I am now in the thick of it. Only recently I have heard of mutual edification churches and I'm still baffled by it for it was  started by a para church organization. But spiritual organization sounds like an oxymoron. Now I can free myself from the binds of how church is run but the 40 people I fellowship with in a multimillion dollar property a cell tower a house rental and rooms to rent in the building see it very differently.

Of course they do. Physical organized Churches have become big business. Men love their religions and can't seem to think outside of the box that religion puts them in.

Richard

Yes, and thank God one doesn't need man's approval to be in God's church.

But -- if we are going to function as a group of people there will be times we need to think of what we want to accomplish together.  Sometimes that takes some organization and attention paid to what the worldy society around us needs from us to be able to do stuff in a group.

Quote from: MarkHooper on Sat Dec 29, 2007 - 23:47:08

You know I'm not sure if I do? As much as I have battled the tide I think I am now in the thick of it. Only recently I have heard of mutual edification churches and I'm still baffled by it for it was  started by a para church organization. But spiritual organization sounds like an oxymoron. Now I can free myself from the binds of how church is run but the 40 people I fellowship with in a multimillion dollar property a cell tower a house rental and rooms to rent in the building see it very differently.

Mark, go back and read the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus. If you can get past the water baptism controversy and focus on the rest of what is written you will see Jesus describe the true Church.

Since the true Church is made up of those who have been "born of the Holy Spirit" we can see Jesus describe it in John 3:7-8. It is not a physical organized church ran by men. Nor can it be seen by eyes of the flesh. Nor can it be touched by hands of flesh. It is a Spiritual Church made by the will of God and ran by the Holy Spirit. It is not made by the will of man nor with man's hands.

This is what I see.

Richard

Quote from: RichardBurger on Mon Dec 31, 2007 - 08:11:56

Quote from: MarkHooper on Sat Dec 29, 2007 - 23:47:08

You know I'm not sure if I do? As much as I have battled the tide I think I am now in the thick of it. Only recently I have heard of mutual edification churches and I'm still baffled by it for it was  started by a para church organization. But spiritual organization sounds like an oxymoron. Now I can free myself from the binds of how church is run but the 40 people I fellowship with in a multimillion dollar property a cell tower a house rental and rooms to rent in the building see it very differently.

Mark, go back and read the conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus. If you can get past the water baptism controversy and focus on the rest of what is written you will see Jesus describe the true Church.

Since the true Church is made up of those who have been "born of the Holy Spirit" we can see Jesus describe it in John 3:7-8. It is not a physical organized church ran by men. Nor can it be seen by eyes of the flesh. Nor can it be touched by hands of flesh. It is a Spiritual Church made by the will of God and ran by the Holy Spirit. It is not made by the will of man nor with man's hands.

This is what I see.

Richard

I agree that the church is made up of Christians as Jesus says.  But if there is no need for order, deacons, preachers, elders, why did Paul go about setting up places for Christians to meet? Why did he say not to forsake the assembling of yourselves together? Why did he write the qualifications of each office, if we're not suppose to have them?
It doesn't matter where we meet but that we do meet. I believe the first churches (born again believers) met in each others homes.

dayspring08