Christian Forums

Charles Sloan

No, I am not following "The Apostles Doctrine" and neither are you Charles.

Quote from: Robert Pate on Fri Feb 01, 2008 - 21:29:53
dayspring8

What is so wonderful about the gospel is that you can remain a sinner and still be saved.  Simply because this salvation that God has provided for us is completely outside of us.  It is a past historical event.  It is not based upon your performance but is based upon Christ performance.

Paul lived his life before the Lord as a sinner, he struggled with sin just like we do, as you can see in Romans 7.  It is the Holy Spirit working in our lives that convicts us of sin.  The gospel calls for Holy living and repentance which the Spirit is constantly working in our life.

I must disagree with you. Paul had weemed himself from all earthly desires and fighting sin with both barrels.
In chapter 7 he bemoans the sinful nature of man and his weakness to fight it in the flesh without Christ and Grace in his life.

After receiving the Holy Ghost on the Day of Pentecost, the apostles were no longer a bunch of powerless unconverted individuals living under the Law.

dayspring08

'But you don't need to insult me to try and prove your intellectual prowess,'

charles:

'intellectual prowess'?

you actually used those terms regarding this topic's starter??
you have a grand career in comedy ahead of you 

dj

Quote from: dayspring08 on Sat Feb 02, 2008 - 05:22:46

Quote from: Robert Pate on Fri Feb 01, 2008 - 21:29:53
dayspring8

What is so wonderful about the gospel is that you can remain a sinner and still be saved.  Simply because this salvation that God has provided for us is completely outside of us.  It is a past historical event.  It is not based upon your performance but is based upon Christ performance.

Paul lived his life before the Lord as a sinner, he struggled with sin just like we do, as you can see in Romans 7.  It is the Holy Spirit working in our lives that convicts us of sin.  The gospel calls for Holy living and repentance which the Spirit is constantly working in our life.

I must disagree with you. Paul had weemed himself from all earthly desires and fighting sin with both barrels.
In chapter 7 he bemoans the sinful nature of man and his weakness to fight it in the flesh without Christ and Grace in his life.

After receiving the Holy Ghost on the Day of Pentecost, the apostles were no longer a bunch of powerless unconverted individuals living under the Law.

dayspring08

dayspring08, Do you believe that a person can become perfect and sinless in the flesh; that a person can change his/her sinful nature?

In Romans 7 we see Paul telling us about the struggle between the flesh and the Spirit. He never indicates it is a struggle that he has won IN THE FLESH. As a matter of fact the last part of the last sentence in Romans 7 states that with the flesh he follows the law of sin.

I do not believe any man on this earth is sinless today nor at any other time except for Jesus. Paul was just as sinful as we are.

Dayspring08

So you believe that Paul had attained into perfection by the power of the Holy Spirit?

If that were true God would have taken him to heaven, yet he remained on the earth as a sinner.

Philippians 3:12 Paul said, "Not as though  I already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after." verse 14, He said that he presses after the high calling of God in Jesus Christ."  We are all pressing to be Christ like, but in our heart we know that we are failing.

Doesn't sound to me like he had arrived.  He also referred to himself as the "chief of sinners"  1st Timothy 1:15.  

If you think that you have arrived then you exclude yourself from salvation.  Christ came into the world to save sinners.  Romans 5:6 says, that Christ died for the ungodly.

Quote from: Robert Pate on Fri Feb 01, 2008 - 21:32:46
Charles Sloan

No, I am not following "The Apostles Doctrine" and neither are you Charles.

Did the Apostles follow the apostlesdoctrine?

Quote from: RichardBurger on Sat Feb 02, 2008 - 07:26:27

Quote from: dayspring08 on Sat Feb 02, 2008 - 05:22:46

Quote from: Robert Pate on Fri Feb 01, 2008 - 21:29:53
dayspring8

What is so wonderful about the gospel is that you can remain a sinner and still be saved.  Simply because this salvation that God has provided for us is completely outside of us.  It is a past historical event.  It is not based upon your performance but is based upon Christ performance.

Paul lived his life before the Lord as a sinner, he struggled with sin just like we do, as you can see in Romans 7.  It is the Holy Spirit working in our lives that convicts us of sin.  The gospel calls for Holy living and repentance which the Spirit is constantly working in our life.

I must disagree with you. Paul had weemed himself from all earthly desires and fighting sin with both barrels.
In chapter 7 he bemoans the sinful nature of man and his weakness to fight it in the flesh without Christ and Grace in his life.

After receiving the Holy Ghost on the Day of Pentecost, the apostles were no longer a bunch of powerless unconverted individuals living under the Law.

dayspring08

dayspring08, Do you believe that a person can become perfect and sinless in the flesh; that a person can change his/her sinful nature?

In Romans 7 we see Paul telling us about the struggle between the flesh and the Spirit. He never indicates it is a struggle that he has won IN THE FLESH. As a matter of fact the last part of the last sentence in Romans 7 states that with the flesh he follows the law of sin.

I do not believe any man on this earth is sinless today nor at any other time except for Jesus. Paul was just as sinful as we are.

No, I do not believe we can live a sinless life here on earth. However, you sound as if you don't even try to fight the flesh. We are in a spiritual warfare or at least the true born again Christians are.
As Paul said, we no longer walk after the flesh to fulfill the lusts thereof but in the Spirit.You didn't reply to any questions I asked.?

My proof is in Paul's own words in the very next chapter.

ROMANS 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him , that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

As I said Paul doesn't back up living a sinful life and neither does any of the other apostles nor Christ Himself. And, the Bible has no contradictions in it.

You can choose and pick which verses you like, which suit your belief's but when you do that and try to leave the rest of the Bible out, you have nothing but a man-made doctrine which is worth nothing.

dayspring08

Quote from: Robert Pate on Sat Feb 02, 2008 - 07:28:05
Dayspring08

So you believe that Paul had attained into perfection by the power of the Holy Spirit?

If that were true God would have taken him to heaven, yet he remained on the earth as a sinner.

Philippians 3:12 Paul said, "Not as though  I already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after." verse 14, He said that he presses after the high calling of God in Jesus Christ."  We are all pressing to be Christ like, but in our heart we know that we are failing.

Doesn't sound to me like he had arrived.  He also referred to himself as the "chief of sinners"  1st Timothy 1:15.  

If you think that you have arrived then you exclude yourself from salvation.  Christ came into the world to save sinners.  Romans 5:6 says, that Christ died for the ungodly.

Please see my post above.

Yes, Paul considered himself the worst of sinners because he persecuted the church. But God saved him and changed all that, didn't he?

dayspring08

dayspring08

There are only two kinds of sinners in the world. "Saved sinners" and "unsaved sinners."  Paul was a saved sinner. The gospel that saves us, is not dependent upon our performance.  It is solely dependent upon Christ performance.  It was Christ who fulfilled God's Holy Law.  It was Christ who atoned for our sins.  All that Christ did to save us he did it in our name and on our behalf.  We have been justified by the work of Christ.  This work that Christ has done to save us becomes ours by faith alone.  Ephesians 2:8-9  "For by grace (God's unmerited favor towards man) are you saved, AND NOT THAT OF YOURSELF it is a gift from God, not of works lest any man should boast."

All who accept Christ receive the First fruits of the Holy Spirit.  Does the Holy Spirit make us holy? No, but it is a comforter to keep us until we can be with Christ.

As long as we are in these Adamic bodies we are sinners. "saved sinners"  Should we live holy lives?  Of course, we are to be witnesses for Christ.  Will your holy life get you to heaven?  absolutely not.  If you can go to heaven by your holy life then Christ lived and died in vain.

Quote from: dayspring08 on Sat Feb 02, 2008 - 14:17:14

Quote from: RichardBurger on Sat Feb 02, 2008 - 07:26:27

Quote from: dayspring08 on Sat Feb 02, 2008 - 05:22:46

Quote from: Robert Pate on Fri Feb 01, 2008 - 21:29:53
dayspring8

What is so wonderful about the gospel is that you can remain a sinner and still be saved.  Simply because this salvation that God has provided for us is completely outside of us.  It is a past historical event.  It is not based upon your performance but is based upon Christ performance.

Paul lived his life before the Lord as a sinner, he struggled with sin just like we do, as you can see in Romans 7.  It is the Holy Spirit working in our lives that convicts us of sin.  The gospel calls for Holy living and repentance which the Spirit is constantly working in our life.

I must disagree with you. Paul had weemed himself from all earthly desires and fighting sin with both barrels.
In chapter 7 he bemoans the sinful nature of man and his weakness to fight it in the flesh without Christ and Grace in his life.

After receiving the Holy Ghost on the Day of Pentecost, the apostles were no longer a bunch of powerless unconverted individuals living under the Law.

dayspring08

dayspring08, Do you believe that a person can become perfect and sinless in the flesh; that a person can change his/her sinful nature?

In Romans 7 we see Paul telling us about the struggle between the flesh and the Spirit. He never indicates it is a struggle that he has won IN THE FLESH. As a matter of fact the last part of the last sentence in Romans 7 states that with the flesh he follows the law of sin.

I do not believe any man on this earth is sinless today nor at any other time except for Jesus. Paul was just as sinful as we are.

No, I do not believe we can live a sinless life here on earth. However, you sound as if you don't even try to fight the flesh. We are in a spiritual warfare or at least the true born again Christians are.
As Paul said, we no longer walk after the flesh to fulfill the lusts thereof but in the Spirit.You didn't reply to any questions I asked.?

My proof is in Paul's own words in the very next chapter.

ROMANS 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him , that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

As I said Paul doesn't back up living a sinful life and neither does any of the other apostles nor Christ Himself. And, the Bible has no contradictions in it.

You can choose and pick which verses you like, which suit your belief's but when you do that and try to leave the rest of the Bible out, you have nothing but a man-made doctrine which is worth nothing.

dayspring08

Why are you so blind to the truth. You admit that a person always sins and then you quote scriptures which you believe tell us that God expects us to do the impossible.

The scriptures are not wrong but your ideas as to what they say is wrong. You are still in the flesh if you think you must do something in the flesh.

I am not in the flesh since I place no confidence in it. The flesh cannot please God because it still sins.

You are still in the flesh if you still think you are not justified before God by what He did on the cross. If you are not living your life in faith then you are living it in your flesh.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death

The flesh follows the law of sin and death, but those in the Spirit are free from the law.

Quote from: Robert Pate on Fri Feb 01, 2008 - 21:32:46
Charles Sloan

No, I am not following "The Apostles Doctrine" and neither are you Charles.

Did the Apostles follow the apostlesdoctrine?

Quote from: Robert Pate on Sat Feb 02, 2008 - 15:08:23
dayspring08

There are only two kinds of sinners in the world. "Saved sinners" and "unsaved sinners."  Paul was a saved sinner. The gospel that saves us, is not dependent upon our performance.  It is solely dependent upon Christ performance.  It was Christ who fulfilled God's Holy Law.  It was Christ who atoned for our sins.  All that Christ did to save us he did it in our name and on our behalf.  We have been justified by the work of Christ.  This work that Christ has done to save us becomes ours by faith alone.  Ephesians 2:8-9  "For by grace (God's unmerited favor towards man) are you saved, AND NOT THAT OF YOURSELF it is a gift from God, not of works lest any man should boast."

All who accept Christ receive the First fruits of the Holy Spirit.  Does the Holy Spirit make us holy? No, but it is a comforter to keep us until we can be with Christ.

As long as we are in these Adamic bodies we are sinners. "saved sinners"  Should we live holy lives?  Of course, we are to be witnesses for Christ.  Will your holy life get you to heaven?  absolutely not.  If you can go to heaven by your holy life then Christ lived and died in vain.

You are absolutely right we have nothing to give or offer God. Our righteousness is as filthy rags before him. Only Christ can deliver us and save us from our sins. When we believe on Him and accept Him in our lives as Lord and Saviour we are cleansed from all unrighteousness and become justified in His sight.

But there is something besides justification. If you never mature in the gospel and produce good fruits but only bad instead you will never see Heaven.  He did not save us in our sins but from our sins.

He told the woman caught in the act of adultery after he had forgiven her to go and sin no more!

David, a man after God's own heart sinned. The difference is he never stayed in his sin nor sought to lead a sinful existence. When the prophet Nathan showed him his sin he fell on his face and repented.
This is his prayer:

PSALMS 51:10-12
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me [with thy] free spirit.

As you can read, he knew he had backslide and prayed that God restore him.

There is no such thing as a saved sinner.  If you are a sinner, by that I mean to commit the same sin over and over and never overcome it, then you need to get saved. For Christ was an overcomer and He said that through Him we also can be overcomers.

MATTHEW 26:41
41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed [is] willing, but the flesh [is] weak.

So we rely completely on Him for the power to overcome sin. He gave us that power through and by the Holy Ghost.
dayspring08

Quote from: RichardBurger on Sat Feb 02, 2008 - 22:23:09

Quote from: dayspring08 on Sat Feb 02, 2008 - 14:17:14

Quote from: RichardBurger on Sat Feb 02, 2008 - 07:26:27

Quote from: dayspring08 on Sat Feb 02, 2008 - 05:22:46

Quote from: Robert Pate on Fri Feb 01, 2008 - 21:29:53
dayspring8

What is so wonderful about the gospel is that you can remain a sinner and still be saved.  Simply because this salvation that God has provided for us is completely outside of us.  It is a past historical event.  It is not based upon your performance but is based upon Christ performance.

Paul lived his life before the Lord as a sinner, he struggled with sin just like we do, as you can see in Romans 7.  It is the Holy Spirit working in our lives that convicts us of sin.  The gospel calls for Holy living and repentance which the Spirit is constantly working in our life.

I must disagree with you. Paul had weemed himself from all earthly desires and fighting sin with both barrels.
In chapter 7 he bemoans the sinful nature of man and his weakness to fight it in the flesh without Christ and Grace in his life.

After receiving the Holy Ghost on the Day of Pentecost, the apostles were no longer a bunch of powerless unconverted individuals living under the Law.

dayspring08

dayspring08, Do you believe that a person can become perfect and sinless in the flesh; that a person can change his/her sinful nature?

In Romans 7 we see Paul telling us about the struggle between the flesh and the Spirit. He never indicates it is a struggle that he has won IN THE FLESH. As a matter of fact the last part of the last sentence in Romans 7 states that with the flesh he follows the law of sin.

I do not believe any man on this earth is sinless today nor at any other time except for Jesus. Paul was just as sinful as we are.

No, I do not believe we can live a sinless life here on earth. However, you sound as if you don't even try to fight the flesh. We are in a spiritual warfare or at least the true born again Christians are.
As Paul said, we no longer walk after the flesh to fulfill the lusts thereof but in the Spirit.You didn't reply to any questions I asked.?

My proof is in Paul's own words in the very next chapter.

ROMANS 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him , that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

As I said Paul doesn't back up living a sinful life and neither does any of the other apostles nor Christ Himself. And, the Bible has no contradictions in it.

You can choose and pick which verses you like, which suit your belief's but when you do that and try to leave the rest of the Bible out, you have nothing but a man-made doctrine which is worth nothing.

dayspring08

Why are you so blind to the truth. You admit that a person always sins and then you quote scriptures which you believe tell us that God expects us to do the impossible.

The scriptures are not wrong but your ideas as to what they say is wrong. You are still in the flesh if you think you must do something in the flesh.

I am not in the flesh since I place no confidence in it. The flesh cannot please God because it still sins.

You are still in the flesh if you still think you are not justified before God by what He did on the cross. If you are not living your life in faith then you are living it in your flesh.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death

The flesh follows the law of sin and death, but those in the Spirit are free from the law.

What I have copied and pasted comes directly from the Bible. This is the apostle Paul's teachings to the church. If they were impossible to live by he would not have written them.

If you are sinning over and over the same sin then you are not in the Spirit. Christ gave us the power to overcome sin. Without Him we could do nothing and would be lost forever. I have already written this in reply to the other post. Please refer to my previous post.

11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.1CO 5:11-13

By the above scriptures you can read what Christians are suppose to do to them who constantly commit sin.

Yes, Grace is a wonderful thing and we are blessed to be living in the church age. Paul states it plainly that we are no longer under the Law of sin. Grace has set us free from that horrible bondage. It has enabled us to overcome as Christ did. The drunkard is no longer chained to the bottle, or the drug addict to the pills, etc.  Grace can set them free and empower them to do what they once could not do in the flesh. For there was no power in the Law.

We would not know what sin was if not for the law. Where there is no law, there is no sin. There was no sin in the Garden until God said, don't eat from this tree! Once they had eaten, they had sinned. You see?

dayspring08

dayspring08,  You said "So we rely completely on Him for the power to overcome sin. He gave us that power through and by the Holy Ghost."

Since you say that God gave you the power to stop sinning then why haven't you stopped sinning? Is the power He gave you not powerful enought?

If what you say is the truth there would be people on this earth that never sin any longer. Do you know of any?

You say we rely COMPLETELY on HIM, but in the same vain you say we must stop sinning by our own power.

That is a mixed message.

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Sat Feb 02, 2008 - 23:23:07

Quote from: Robert Pate on Fri Feb 01, 2008 - 21:32:46
Charles Sloan

No, I am not following "The Apostles Doctrine" and neither are you Charles.

Did the Apostles follow the apostlesdoctrine?

May I ask what the apostles doctrine is?
Thank you,
dayspring08

Quote from: RichardBurger on Sun Feb 03, 2008 - 07:32:22
dayspring08,  You said "So we rely completely on Him for the power to overcome sin. He gave us that power through and by the Holy Ghost."

Since you say that God gave you the power to stop sinning then why haven't you stopped sinning? Is the power He gave you not powerful enought?

If what you say is the truth there would be people on this earth that never sin any longer. Do you know of any?

You say we rely COMPLETELY on HIM, but in the same vain you say we must stop sinning by our own power.

I'm sorry but it's not a mixed message.  Are you saying that you don't sin?

There is sin and there is SIN.  Do you know the difference between them?  I think that may be why you see my posts as mixed messages.

dayspring08

Quote from: dayspring08 on Sun Feb 03, 2008 - 07:33:05

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Sat Feb 02, 2008 - 23:23:07

Quote from: Robert Pate on Fri Feb 01, 2008 - 21:32:46
Charles Sloan

No, I am not following "The Apostles Doctrine" and neither are you Charles.

Did the Apostles follow the apostlesdoctrine?

May I ask what the apostles doctrine is?
Thank you,
dayspring08

The apostlesdoctrine is a book that Robert Pate is peddling here.

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Sun Feb 03, 2008 - 09:56:55

Quote from: dayspring08 on Sun Feb 03, 2008 - 07:33:05

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Sat Feb 02, 2008 - 23:23:07

Quote from: Robert Pate on Fri Feb 01, 2008 - 21:32:46
Charles Sloan

No, I am not following "The Apostles Doctrine" and neither are you Charles.

Did the Apostles follow the apostlesdoctrine?

May I ask what the apostles doctrine is?
Thank you,
dayspring08

The apostlesdoctrine is a book that Robert Pate is peddling here.

Oh, my goodness! 

dayspring08

Quote from: dayspring08 on Sun Feb 03, 2008 - 07:56:28

Quote from: RichardBurger on Sun Feb 03, 2008 - 07:32:22
dayspring08,  You said "So we rely completely on Him for the power to overcome sin. He gave us that power through and by the Holy Ghost."

Since you say that God gave you the power to stop sinning then why haven't you stopped sinning? Is the power He gave you not powerful enought?

If what you say is the truth there would be people on this earth that never sin any longer. Do you know of any?

You say we rely COMPLETELY on HIM, but in the same vain you say we must stop sinning by our own power.

I'm sorry but it's not a mixed message.  Are you saying that you don't sin?

There is sin and there is SIN.  Do you know the difference between them?  I think that may be why you see my posts as mixed messages.

dayspring08

Now, now, I asked two questions and you did not answer either one of them. But now you expect me to answer yours. A little one sided isn't it?

You asked, "Are you saying that you don't sin?"

My answer; no, I have NEVER said that. --- I HAVE said we still sin in the flesh and will always sin in the flesh. --- How you can equate that to my saying I don't sin is amazing.

However, God says I am cleansed, justified, sanctified and saved because I trust in Him; in what He did on the cross.

My faith is in the promise of God, "in Christ." That his work on the cross pays for ALL of my sins in the flesh. --- I am placed "in Christ" by the Holy Spirit. When God sees me, He sees me through Christ and I am sinless.

Don't you know that flesh and blood will never enter heaven? You must be born again of the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit that does not sin and will enter heaven, later to be joined to a resurrected body like Christ has. -- Don't you know that the only sin that condemns a person in this age of God's grace is the sin of unbelief; unbelief in what Jesus accomplished on the cross (John 3:16-18 - 16:8-9). If you think your sin are condeming you, then you do not believe in Jesus.

You are the one telling me that God has given you the power to not sin in the flesh ""indicating"" that others who sin are either not saved or not using the power. --- And then, when I asked you if you still sin you said yes.

Why are you on this forum preaching that others must stop sinning when you haven't?

dayspring08

Charles would like for you to think that is why I am on the forum. "To peddle my book"  He loves to put me down.

The reason that I am on the forum is to further the "Historical Gospel"  It is the same reason that I wrote the book.  I have a web site if you would like to visit it.  http://www.theapostlesdoctrine.com

I don't make any money on the book.  Charles would like for you to think that because of my book sales that I own several mansions, a jet plane, a couple of yachts, a vacation home in the Bahamas. etc.

Quote from: Robert Pate on Sun Feb 03, 2008 - 12:51:20Charles would like for you to think that because of my book sales that I own several mansions, a jet plane, a couple of yachts, a vacation home in the Bahamas. etc.

Not quite Robert, but just as you demonstrated you are here to peddle your book.

Quote from: RichardBurger on Sun Feb 03, 2008 - 12:49:01

Quote from: dayspring08 on Sun Feb 03, 2008 - 07:56:28

Quote from: RichardBurger on Sun Feb 03, 2008 - 07:32:22
dayspring08,  You said "So we rely completely on Him for the power to overcome sin. He gave us that power through and by the Holy Ghost."

Since you say that God gave you the power to stop sinning then why haven't you stopped sinning? Is the power He gave you not powerful enought?

If what you say is the truth there would be people on this earth that never sin any longer. Do you know of any?

You say we rely COMPLETELY on HIM, but in the same vain you say we must stop sinning by our own power.

I'm sorry but it's not a mixed message.  Are you saying that you don't sin?

There is sin and there is SIN.  Do you know the difference between them?  I think that may be why you see my posts as mixed messages.

dayspring08

Now, now, I asked two questions and you did not answer either one of them. But now you expect me to answer yours. A little one sided isn't it?

You asked, "Are you saying that you don't sin?"

My answer; no, I have NEVER said that. --- I HAVE said we still sin in the flesh and will always sin in the flesh. --- How you can equate that to my saying I don't sin is amazing.

However, God says I am cleansed, justified, sanctified and saved because I trust in Him; in what He did on the cross.

My faith is in the promise of God, "in Christ." That his work on the cross pays for ALL of my sins in the flesh. --- I am placed "in Christ" by the Holy Spirit. When God sees me, He sees me through Christ and I am sinless.

Don't you know that flesh and blood will never enter heaven? You must be born again of the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit that does not sin and will enter heaven, later to be joined to a resurrected body like Christ has. -- Don't you know that the only sin that condemns a person in this age of God's grace is the sin of unbelief; unbelief in what Jesus accomplished on the cross (John 3:16-18 - 16:8-9). If you think your sin are condeming you, then you do not believe in Jesus.

You are the one telling me that God has given you the power to not sin in the flesh ""indicating"" that others who sin are either not saved or not using the power. --- And then, when I asked you if you still sin you said yes.

Why are you on this forum preaching that others must stop sinning when you haven't?

It's obvious to me that you have only half or less of a Bible.  Do you honestly think you can separate your sins from yourself?  That is ridiculous.  If you are sinning God sees that sin!  If you don't ask for forgivesness and forsake that sin, it will cost you your soul.

James1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein , he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Does your Bible have the book of James in it or have you took it out?  Why do you not believe the Bible? 
I have witnessed to many people like you and it's usually unfruitful and useless.

dayspring08

Quote from: dayspring08 on Sun Feb 03, 2008 - 17:46:33

Quote from: RichardBurger on Sun Feb 03, 2008 - 12:49:01

Quote from: dayspring08 on Sun Feb 03, 2008 - 07:56:28

Quote from: RichardBurger on Sun Feb 03, 2008 - 07:32:22
dayspring08,  You said "So we rely completely on Him for the power to overcome sin. He gave us that power through and by the Holy Ghost."

Since you say that God gave you the power to stop sinning then why haven't you stopped sinning? Is the power He gave you not powerful enought?

If what you say is the truth there would be people on this earth that never sin any longer. Do you know of any?

You say we rely COMPLETELY on HIM, but in the same vain you say we must stop sinning by our own power.

I'm sorry but it's not a mixed message.  Are you saying that you don't sin?

There is sin and there is SIN.  Do you know the difference between them?  I think that may be why you see my posts as mixed messages.

dayspring08

Now, now, I asked two questions and you did not answer either one of them. But now you expect me to answer yours. A little one sided isn't it?

You asked, "Are you saying that you don't sin?"

My answer; no, I have NEVER said that. --- I HAVE said we still sin in the flesh and will always sin in the flesh. --- How you can equate that to my saying I don't sin is amazing.

However, God says I am cleansed, justified, sanctified and saved because I trust in Him; in what He did on the cross.

My faith is in the promise of God, "in Christ." That his work on the cross pays for ALL of my sins in the flesh. --- I am placed "in Christ" by the Holy Spirit. When God sees me, He sees me through Christ and I am sinless.

Don't you know that flesh and blood will never enter heaven? You must be born again of the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit that does not sin and will enter heaven, later to be joined to a resurrected body like Christ has. -- Don't you know that the only sin that condemns a person in this age of God's grace is the sin of unbelief; unbelief in what Jesus accomplished on the cross (John 3:16-18 - 16:8-9). If you think your sin are condeming you, then you do not believe in Jesus.

You are the one telling me that God has given you the power to not sin in the flesh ""indicating"" that others who sin are either not saved or not using the power. --- And then, when I asked you if you still sin you said yes.

Why are you on this forum preaching that others must stop sinning when you haven't?

It's obvious to me that you have only half or less of a Bible.  Do you honestly think you can separate your sins from yourself?  That is ridiculous.  If you are sinning God sees that sin!  If you don't ask for forgivesness and forsake that sin, it will cost you your soul.

James1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein , he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Does your Bible have the book of James in it or have you took it out?  Why do you not believe the Bible? 
I have witnessed to many people like you and it's usually unfruitful and useless.

dayspring08

Martin Luther said the book of James is a book of Straw. It is totally void of the grace of God and filled with the law. ---- And he was right.

The Book of James was written to the Jews (James 1:1) who were under the law. It was not written to the grace church.

dayspring08, I believe the Bible. When it says who the book was written to I accept it. I don't say it was written to everyone else. --- If you say it was written to the Gentiles in the grace church then you obviously don't believe James in chapter 1, verse 1.

So who is it that does not believe the Bible?

Quote from: dayspring08 on Sun Feb 03, 2008 - 17:46:33

Quote from: RichardBurger on Sun Feb 03, 2008 - 12:49:01

Quote from: dayspring08 on Sun Feb 03, 2008 - 07:56:28

Quote from: RichardBurger on Sun Feb 03, 2008 - 07:32:22
dayspring08,  You said "So we rely completely on Him for the power to overcome sin. He gave us that power through and by the Holy Ghost."

Since you say that God gave you the power to stop sinning then why haven't you stopped sinning? Is the power He gave you not powerful enought?

If what you say is the truth there would be people on this earth that never sin any longer. Do you know of any?

You say we rely COMPLETELY on HIM, but in the same vain you say we must stop sinning by our own power.

I'm sorry but it's not a mixed message.  Are you saying that you don't sin?

There is sin and there is SIN.  Do you know the difference between them?  I think that may be why you see my posts as mixed messages.

dayspring08

Now, now, I asked two questions and you did not answer either one of them. But now you expect me to answer yours. A little one sided isn't it?

You asked, "Are you saying that you don't sin?"

My answer; no, I have NEVER said that. --- I HAVE said we still sin in the flesh and will always sin in the flesh. --- How you can equate that to my saying I don't sin is amazing.

However, God says I am cleansed, justified, sanctified and saved because I trust in Him; in what He did on the cross.

My faith is in the promise of God, "in Christ." That his work on the cross pays for ALL of my sins in the flesh. --- I am placed "in Christ" by the Holy Spirit. When God sees me, He sees me through Christ and I am sinless.

Don't you know that flesh and blood will never enter heaven? You must be born again of the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit that does not sin and will enter heaven, later to be joined to a resurrected body like Christ has. -- Don't you know that the only sin that condemns a person in this age of God's grace is the sin of unbelief; unbelief in what Jesus accomplished on the cross (John 3:16-18 - 16:8-9). If you think your sin are condeming you, then you do not believe in Jesus.

You are the one telling me that God has given you the power to not sin in the flesh ""indicating"" that others who sin are either not saved or not using the power. --- And then, when I asked you if you still sin you said yes.

Why are you on this forum preaching that others must stop sinning when you haven't?

It's obvious to me that you have only half or less of a Bible.  Do you honestly think you can separate your sins from yourself?  That is ridiculous.  If you are sinning God sees that sin!  If you don't ask for forgivesness and forsake that sin, it will cost you your soul.

James1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein , he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Does your Bible have the book of James in it or have you took it out?  Why do you not believe the Bible? 
I have witnessed to many people like you and it's usually unfruitful and useless.

dayspring08

If you will read your Bible you will see that James is talking about Abrahams works of offering up his son proving his faith and it made him righteous.

But Abraham was accounted as righteous **before** his son was born, before he had done any works at all. He was accounted as righteous because he believed God.

Quote from: Robert Pate on Fri Feb 01, 2008 - 21:32:46
Charles Sloan

No, I am not following "The Apostles Doctrine" and neither are you Charles.

Did the Apostles follow the apostlesdoctrine?

Charles Sloan

The apostles doctrine is all that the apostles taught and believed.  I suppose they followed their own doctrines. But some had trouble with the law.  If you had been following the law (the Jewish religion) all of your life and along comes Paul and says scrap it, I think that would cause some problems

Quote from: Robert Pate on Mon Feb 04, 2008 - 10:57:31
Charles Sloan

The apostles doctrine is all that the apostles taught and believed.  I suppose they followed their own doctrines. But some had trouble with the law.  If you had been following the law (the Jewish religion) all of your life and along comes Paul and says scrap it, I think that would cause some problems

So no one followed the apostlesdoctrine except the Apostles, well actually only Paul?

Does that mean you only accept the writtings of Paul, and not the other Apostles?

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Mon Feb 04, 2008 - 11:35:56

Quote from: Robert Pate on Mon Feb 04, 2008 - 10:57:31
Charles Sloan

The apostles doctrine is all that the apostles taught and believed.  I suppose they followed their own doctrines. But some had trouble with the law.  If you had been following the law (the Jewish religion) all of your life and along comes Paul and says scrap it, I think that would cause some problems

So no one followed the apostlesdoctrine except the Apostles, well actually only Paul?

Does that mean you only accept the writtings of Paul, and not the other Apostles?

Sorry if I am butting in but didn't James, Peter and John agree to stop going to the Gentiles and let Paul go to them?-- If Paul was/is the Apostle to the Gentiles, and James, Peter and John agreed to go only to the Jews then why is the grace church built on Peter? ---- (Galatians 2:7-10)

Charles Sloan

We all have our favorite books of the Bible, I prefer the writings of Paul.  If you have a law based theology you would probably like James.

Quote from: RichardBurger on Mon Feb 04, 2008 - 13:35:33Sorry if I am butting in but didn't James, Peter and John agree to stop going to the Gentiles and let Paul go to them?-- If Paul was/is the Apostle to the Gentiles, and James, Peter and John agreed to go only to the Jews then why is the grace church built on Peter? ---- (Galatians 2:7-10)

Does that mean that only Paul's writtings are consider inspired?

Quote from: Robert Pate on Mon Feb 04, 2008 - 13:39:01
Charles Sloan

We all have our favorite books of the Bible, I prefer the writings of Paul.  If you have a law based theology you would probably like James.

I prefer the New Testament, I try not to divorce books from the other books of the Covenant.

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Mon Feb 04, 2008 - 13:39:28

Quote from: RichardBurger on Mon Feb 04, 2008 - 13:35:33Sorry if I am butting in but didn't James, Peter and John agree to stop going to the Gentiles and let Paul go to them?-- If Paul was/is the Apostle to the Gentiles, and James, Peter and John agreed to go only to the Jews then why is the grace church built on Peter? ---- (Galatians 2:7-10)

Does that mean that only Paul's writtings are consider inspired?

I never said anything about, or brought up, ""inspired.""

I believe the Bible is given to us by God. I believe that James, Peter and John agreed to go to the Jews while Paul went to the Gentiles.  -- In other words I believe the words written in the Bible. How about you?  -- My question is a vailid one, why do people think the grace church is built on Peter? -- Please answer the question if you know.

RichardBurger

I think that there was contention between Paul and some of the other apostles because of Paul's doctrine of grace. The apostles that were going to the Jews had a doctrine of law and grace.  I am convinced of this.  A good part of Paul's writings is in defense of his doctrine of grace without the works of the law. It was a continuous fight.  Just like today on this Forum.

Quote from: Harold on Mon Jan 28, 2008 - 16:45:57

Quote from: Robert Pate on Sat Jan 26, 2008 - 17:28:10
Religion is a terrible thing, it causes men to focus on other things than Christ.

A religious person's main preoccupation is their religion or spirituality and how they might live a life pleasing to God.  The gospel of Jesus Christ is of little to no interest to them.  Jesus Christ is the only one that has ever lived a life pleasing to God.  All others are sinners and are not capable of leading a life that is pleasing to God.  The only way that a person can please God is by having faith in his son Jesus Christ.  For a person to please God one must be able to keep all of the commandments and ordinances of God's Holy law, which is impossible for them to do because they are still in the flesh of Adam and are in a fallen condition.  Total Christian sanctification does not take place in this life.  We are sinners until the day that we die and are made complete when we are with Christ.  Religion is basically man's belief and apparent absence of faith in the fact that God has already dealt with his sin problem in the person of Jesus Christ.  Lack of faith in the work of Christ (which is the gospel) leaves him with a vacuum in his life that he fills with his religion that gives him the desire to deal with his own sin problem and to establish his own righteousness and spirituality as he sees fit.  This is a pride problem that will send multitudes to hell.

Thomas Jefferson said, "I don't find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.  The greatest enemies of Jesus are the doctrines and creeds of the church.  It would be more pardonable to believe in no God at all than to blasphemy him with the atrocious writings of the theologians.  John Calvin was a malignant Spirit."

John Adams said,  "Nowhere in the gospels do we find a precept for creeds, confessions, oaths, doctrines and a whole boat load of other foolish trumpery than we find Christianity encumbered with."

Abraham Lincoln said,  "Christianity is not my religion.  I can never give asset to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma."

Most Christian seminaries teach systematic theology.  There is no system to the gospel.  Systematic theology does not teach the life of Christ for the believer.  This leaves a vacuum in the believer's life and doctrine that will cause them to try to fill this vacuum with their own lives and religion.  Romans chapters 5 and 6 makes it clear that Christ was the new Adam and representative of the human race.  All that Christ did was for us and in our name and on our behalf.  We are saved by his life as well as his death.

One of the attributes of religion is pride.  Religious people are proud and easily offended especially when someone says something negative about their religion, church affiliation, or denomination.  Many religious people want salvation but they want it on their terms or conditions.  the conditions are usually that God must accept their pious lives, their works, their rituals, or something that they do or have become.  They reject God's way of salvation which is the gospel and go about to establish their own way.  The scripture says,  "Their is a way that seems right unto a man but it leads to death and destruction."  Religion is the natural way, it's the way that seems right unto a man.  Do good works, live a clean life and I will be accepted.  If this is the way, then Christ lived and died in vain.  There is only one way to be saved and accepted and that is by the gospel.

Every year there are numerous seminars on how to become a better Christian or how to live the higher victorious Christian life.  These seminars try to teach how you can become a better Christian and have a better relationship with your wife, your children, others and God.  They imply that the trouble is with the believer and his sin problem and they have the answers about what to do about it.  The gospel is usually rejected and the sin problem is now the believer's problem and it is his responsibility to deal with it.  This is a terrible burden to bear because it places one under the law.  The teaching emphasizes that you must confess your sins more, you must read your Bible more, you must give more, you must be more committed, you must, you must, you must.  The rules and instructions are endless.  Sometimes they give you hundreds of pages and diagrams on how to be a more dedicated Christian.  This doesn't really help with the sin problem but rather breeds more sin because the teaching is subjective and causes one to look to themselves for strength and direction.

The Pharisees that Jesus referred to as hypocrites, took the Ten Commandments and came up with over six hundred rules for holy living.  Traditional Christianity does basically the same thing.  It is called living by the letter of the law.  The apostle Paul said, "Do you hear the law?"  Do you understand what is required?  To say that religion causes a person to be subjective may be a understatement.  Satan loves this kind of subjective teaching it turns ones eyes away from Christ who is our righteousness and upon
themselves.

A favorite cliche among many evangelicals is..... "What is Christ doing in your life?"  This doctrine is basically Roman Catholicism.  My question is why would a sinless Christ want to live his life through a depraved sinner?  Or perhaps you think that you have gotten the sin out and now you are righteous.  The work of Christ is a finished work.  To mix up or to confuse the work of Christ with the work of the Holy Spirit is heresy.  Christ is present in the Holy Spirit but his work is a finished work.  The work of the Spirit is ongoing in the life of the believer.

Elitism is promoted in many religious circles.  Many times a pastor will relate to a congregation how he had a supernatural experience from God when he was called into the ministry, which was not really supernatural at all.  It is very hard to refute someone that believes that they have had a supernatural experience from God.  This sets the stage for elitism and the formation of a religious hierarchy within the congregation.  This practice is very common in many congregations.  The fundamental belief is that you must attain to a higher level of spirituality so that you will become more useful to the Lord and to the church like the pastor is.  The apostle Paul referred to this type of teaching as being in bondage to the law.

There is no peace or rest in religion because you never know when you have done enough to be acceptable to God.  Many times pastors will tell their congregations that the Lord cannot use them if they are not a fit vessel.  How fit must you be?  How often must you pray?  How often must you confess your sins? How often must you go to church? How much good works must you do? There is no answer.  What is acceptable? When have you pleased the Lord?  You must strive for perfection, which is not attainable, or the Lord will not be pleased.

Religion is divisive and causes division.  This is why there are more than 79 different religious denominations or branches of religion in the United States.  Every religion has their own idea of how to believe which is usually a law based theology and not based on the historical gospel of Jesus Christ.  the gospel unites and puts us all in the same boat.  In the gospel we are all sinners that are trusting in Christ to save us. In religion there are the elite that think that they are better than others or have attained into something.

The Gospel that Saves

There is no religion in the gospel.  the gospel is about Jesus Christ, his work, his attainment, his perfect life, his victory over sin, his crucifixion. The gospel is about God revealing himself to man in the person of Jesus Christ.  The gospel is about how God in the person of Jesus Christ clothed himself in human flesh and became one with us, but not one of us.
The old Adam brings sin and death.  The new Adam brings righteousness and eternal life.  The old Adam breaks God's Holy Law.  The new Adam restores and fulfills it.  The gospel is about how God embraced our humanity and took it to the cross and put it to death.  Paul said, "I have been crucified with Christ nevertheless I live." In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed.  1st Corinthians 1:30.  All that Jesus Christ is, and all that he has done, is ours by faith alone.

And thus the Robert Religion and denomination, by definition you make yourself a religion. You have rules that must be followed.

FTL

Harold, Please state the RULES Robert must follow. I want to see if I am in what you call his religion. If you cannot state his rules then you cannot say he has any.

Quote from: RichardBurger on Mon Feb 04, 2008 - 13:48:15

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Mon Feb 04, 2008 - 13:39:28

Quote from: RichardBurger on Mon Feb 04, 2008 - 13:35:33Sorry if I am butting in but didn't James, Peter and John agree to stop going to the Gentiles and let Paul go to them?-- If Paul was/is the Apostle to the Gentiles, and James, Peter and John agreed to go only to the Jews then why is the grace church built on Peter? ---- (Galatians 2:7-10)

Does that mean that only Paul's writtings are consider inspired?

I never said anything about, or brought up, ""inspired.""

I believe the Bible is given to us by God. I believe that James, Peter and John agreed to go to the Jews while Paul went to the Gentiles.  -- In other words I believe the words written in the Bible. How about you?  -- My question is a vailid one, why do people think the grace church is built on Peter? -- Please answer the question if you know.

I never heard of a "grace church", as if there are more than one. But Peter was the if Apostle sent to the Gentiles if I remember correctly. And the first sermon delievered on the day of Pentecost was from Peter as well. So I believe a case can be made that Peter was the founding Apostles for the church. Even Jesus commissioned Peter specifically to feed the flock (John 21:15-17).

But you are rabbit trailing my question, do you consider the writtings of Peter, James, Jude, etc. of the same inspiration as the writtings of Paul?