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History books, the media, the school systems, etc abound in falsehoods and inaccuracies of Confederate and Southern history.
MYTH  -   The War of 1861 - 1865 was fought over slavery.

FACT  -   Terribly untrue. The North fought the war over money. Plain and simple. When the South started Secession, Lincoln was asked, "Why not let the South go in peace?" To which he replied, "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?" Sensing total financial ruin for the North, Lincoln waged war on the South. The South fought the War to repel invasion.


MYTH  -   Only Southerners owned slaves.

FACT  -   Entirely untrue. Many Northern civilians owned slaves. Prior to, during and even after the War.

Surprisingly, to many history impaired individuals, most Union Generals and staff had slaves to serve them! William T. Sherman had many slaves that served him until well after the war was over and did not free them until late in 1865.

U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn't free his slaves earlier, Grant stated "Good help is so hard to come by these days."

Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased - they were inherited) in 1862!!! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, and considerably earlier than his Northern counterparts.

Lastly, and most importantly, why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery only AFTER the war was over? The so-called "Emancipation Proclamation" of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT in the North! This even went so far as to find the state of Delaware rejecting the 13th Amendment in December of 1865 and did not ratify it (13th Amendment / free the slaves) until 1901!

MYTH  -   The Confederate Battle Flag was flown on slave ships.

FACT  -   NONE of the flags of the Confederacy or Southern Nation ever flew over a slave ship. Nor did the South own or operate any slaves ships. The English, the Dutch and the Portuguese brought slaves to this country, not the Southern Nation.

BUT, even more monumental, it is also very important to know and understand that Federal, Union ships brought slaves to America! These ships were from the New England states.

These Federals were ones that ended up crying the loudest about slavery. But without their ships, many of the slaves would have never arrived here. They made countless fortunes on the delivery of slaves as well as the products madefrom raw materials such as cotton and tobacco in the South.

This is the problem with Revisionist History is overwhelmingly portrayed incorrectly.

MYTH  -   The Confederate Battle Flag represented the Southern Nation.

FACT  -   Not true. While the Southern Battle flag was carried into battle, the Southern Nation had 3 different National flags during the course of the war.

The First National flag was changed due to a resemblance of the US flag.

The Second National flag was subsequently modified due to the similarity to a flag of truce.

The Third National flag was the adopted flag of the Confederacy.

The Confederate Battle Flag was never a National Flag of the Confederacy. It was carried into battle by several armies such as the Army Of Northen Virginia and the Army of Tennessee. Was also used as a Naval Jack by the Confederate Navy.

MYTH  -   The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Stars & Bars".

FACT  -   A common misconception. The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the "Southern Cross".

MYTH  -   The Confederate Battle Flag represents racism today.

FACT  -   The Confederate Battle Flag today finds itself in the center of much controversy and hoopla going on in several states. The cry to take this flag down is unjustified. It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that villify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels.

MYTH  -   The United States Flag represented freedom.

FACT  -   No chance. The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years! The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it's commodities. It wasn't until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money. That is the true definition of hypocrisy.

MYTH  -   Abraham Lincoln was the Great Emancipator.

FACT  -   While Lincoln has went down in history as the Great Emancipator, many would not care to hear his real thoughts on people of color. Martyred President Abraham Lincoln was fervently making plans to send all freed slaves to the jungles of Central America once the war was over. Knowing that African society would never allow the slaves to return back to Africa, Lincoln also did not want the slaves in the US. He thought the jungles of Central America would be the best solution and conducive to the freed slaves best interest. The only thing that kept this from happening, was his assassination.

MYTH  -   The South revered slavery.

FACT  -   A very interesting fact on slavery is that at the time the War of 1861 -1865 officially commenced, the Southern States were actually in the process of freeing all slaves in the South. Russia had freed it's servants in 1859, and the South took great note of this. Had military intervention not been forced upon the South, a very different America would have been realized then as well as now.

MYTH  -   The Confederate Army was comprised of rich slave owners.

FACT  -   Very far from true. The vast majority of soldiers in the Confederate Army were simple men of meager income. Most of which were hard working farmers and common men. Then, as now, very few rich men ever fight a war.

MYTH  -   Only the North had men of color in their ranks.

FACT  -   Quite simply a major falsehood of history. Many blacks, both free and of their own will, joined the Confederate Army to fight for their beloved Southern home. Additionally, men of other ethnic extraction fought as well. Oriental, Mexican & Spanish men as well as Native American Indians fought with pride for the South.

Today, many men of color are members in the heritage group SCV - Sons Of Confederate Veterans. These men of color and pride rejoice in their heritage. The continued attacks on the Southern Nation, The Confederacy, and her symbols are a terrible outrage to these fine people. These attacks should be denounced with as much fervor as those who denounce the South.

MYTH  -   The Confederate Flags are an authorized symbol of Aryan, KKK and hate groups.

FACT  -   Quite the contrary. These despicable organizations such as the KKK and Aryans have taken a hallowed piece of history, and have plagued good Southern folks and the memories of fine Confederate Soldiers that fought under the battle flag with their own perverse agenda.

Most of your facts and myths are backwards....trust me, I lived in Mississippi, the last hold out, heck they are still holding out (but that's a different post  ), and even they see things differently than you posted.

For example, the confederate flag is, in fact, refered to as the "stars and bars" not the "southern cross."  The confederate flag has come to represent racism...how that came about is certainly debatable, but in MS, it is displayed with racists pride.

Lincoln was in fact the "Great Emancipator"  Who do you think issued the Emmancipation Proclaimation?  Vilifying the man does not correct myths, it even furthers them.  Lincoln was not necessarily a nice guy, but nor was he as evil as you make him out to be.

Also, the south only started freeing its slaves when they needed soldiers in their army.  It was not any sort of altruism on their part.  Saying the "revered" slavery is a gross mischaracterization just you can bust a "myth."  The fact is their entire economy was dependant on slaves.  Why do you think the north helped out so much after the war?  Their economy was in shambles when the slaves were freed.

As for the confederate army being composed of "rich land owners," where did that come from?  No valid history book I ever read said that.

Finally, you neglected to mention one very important thing:  The south fired the shots that began the civil war.

KP
PS...many southerners are still proud members of the KKK...during its heyday, those "good southern folk" lynched and burned "colored" people.

Let's see.  Do you know anything about me?  Do you know where I lived most of my life? Do you know my past experiences? NO!.

I too lived in MS and have no Idea what your talking about.  Holding out?  Holding out for what?  I also lived in AL  and TN.  I attended College in both MS an AL.  And I pretty Much believed the standard History about the Civil War until I actually researched for myself.

Oh you also failed to mention the Mississippi Flag  Wasn't it just 6 years ago when the good people of MS voted to KEEP their current flag?  After much debate it was decided that history should speak for itself.

Why did the south fire the first shots?  Because Northern armies refused to leave.    The northern armies had no right to hold military forts in another nation when said nation did not want them there.  They were asked to leave and were even offered safe passage back to their own country.

As far as the KKK goes I spent over 30 years in the south and rarely I do mean rarely were they ever encountered.  Now I'm not disputing your experiences.  Maybe you live in one of those isolated communities where the KKK is still somewhat of a novelty.

With all due respect look at the whole spectrum of history.  My previous post was taken from people who actually know more about the civil war than most people do.  Those were not all my words but they are things I have encountered much of my life.

Question.  Who would know more about the flag.  Us poor folks who live in the 21st century or people who wrote about it 140 years ago?

Please always remember That the history of war is written by the victors.  That means they go out of their way to make themselves look righteous.

One thing you failed toreact to in your post.  Why didn't the North free their own slaves the same time claimed to be freeing slave in another country? A country, by the way, in which they had no legal or political authority?

A lot of the Lost Cause myth has been debunked by using the words of those who seceeded themselves.  They're posted on older threads.  In short, those who seceeded said they did so because of slavery and that slavery was a revered institution, the cornerstone of the Confederacy in VP Stephens' words.

I was really shocked to find out that virtually all of my very Southern ancestors fought for the Union. They lived in Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky and Alabama, and I've only found one or two that fought for the Confederacy.

QuotePS...many southerners are still proud members of the KKK...during its heyday, those "good southern folk" lynched and burned "colored" people.

I hate to say it, but in my area this statement rings true. Just up the mountain is a very active KKK group - so much so that they actually will stand on street corners in full regalia collecting money for their cause. I was shocked when I first moved here to hear people spit out the N-word. I've heard more disparaging and downright cruel remarks about blacks and hispanics than I care to admit. Some of the more isolated rural communities may have one or two black families, tops. It gets ugly sometimes.

Much of the information seems to no longer be on the site, and I don't have time to reconstruct it right now.  Here are a few quotes from contemporary documents, though.

First, the South Carolina Declaration of secession.  The first thing here you may want to note is how they indentified the aggrieved parties:

QuoteDECLARATION OF THE IMMEDIATE CAUSES WHICH INDUCE AND JUSTIFY THE SECESSION OF SOUTH CAROLINA FROM THE FEDERAL UNION.
[p2]
The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union;but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.

I'm not going to post all the references to slavery in the document, which would be pretty much the same as posting the whole document, but here's a link to this document, and the declarations of Mississippi, Georgia and Texas.  Do a search for all words containing "slav" and you'll see this was hardly an afterthought.

http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html


Then, you may want to search the same documents for "tariff".

Some other quotes:

"I think then, 1st, that the only safety of the South from abolition universal is to be found in an early dissolution of the Union." --Henry L. Benning, Georgia politician and future Confederate general, writing in the summer of 1849 to his fellow Georgian, Howell Cobb

"I want Cuba . . . I want Tamaulipas, Potosi, and one or two other Mexican States; and I want them all for the same reason -- for the planting and spreading of slavery."  --Albert Gallatin Brown, U.S. Senator from Mississippi

"Democratic liberty exists solely because we have slaves . . . freedom is not possible without slavery." --Richmond Enquirer, 1856

"We regard every man in our midst an enemy to the institutions of the South, who does not boldly declare that he believes African slavery to be a social, moral, and political blessing." --Atlanta Confederacy, 1860

"African slavery is the corner-stone of the industrial, social, and political fabric of the South; and whatever wars against it, wars against her very existence. Strike down the institution of African slavery and you reduce the South to depopulation and barbarism."  --Lawrence Keitt, Congressman from South Carolina, in a speech to the House on January 25, 1860

"Our people have come to this on the question of slavery. I am willing, in that address to rest it upon that question. I think it is the great central point from which we are now proceeding, and I am not willing to divert the public attention from it."  --Keitt, again, in South Carolina's secession proceedings.

From the Confederate Constitution:
Article I, Section 9, Paragraph 4: "No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed."
Article IV, Section 3, Paragraph 3: "The Confederate States may acquire new territory . . . In all such territory, the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress and the territorial government."

From the Georgia Constitution of 1861:"The General Assembly shall have no power to pass laws for the emancipation of slaves." (This is the entire text of Article 2, Sec. VII, Paragraph 3.)

From the Alabama Constitution of 1861: "No slave in this State shall be emancipated by any act done to take effect in this State, or any other country." (This is the entire text of Article IV, Section 1 (on slavery).)

"Its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery . . . is his natural and normal condition."  --Alexander Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederacy, referring to the Confederate government.

"If the Republican party with its platform of principles, the main feature of which is the abolition of slavery and, therefore, the destruction of the South, carries the country at the next Presidential election, shall we remain in the Union, or form a separate Confederacy? This is the great, grave issue. It is not who shall be President, it is not which party shall rule -- it is a question of political and social existence."  --Alfred P. Aldrich, South Carolina legislator from Barnwell.

There's much more where this came from.  I would highly recommend reading the linked articles of secession.

If anything, I think in this case, history was written by the losers.  One historian I read put it very succinctly:

"The north won the war, but the south won the peace."

KP

btw, the northern slavery idea is also false.  I've seen this repeated by Thomas DiLorenzo and others; I'm not sure why. By the time of the Civil War, New Jersey, which was the last northern state to institute a gradual aboliton, had 18 or so slaves remaining, and other than West Virginia, which was admitted to the Union as a slave state even though the leaders of the statehood movement desired otherwise, that was it.  Here's a timeline for abolition:

Northern Abolition Timeline

Massachusetts 1780 (judicial decision)

Pennsylvania 1780 (gradual emancipation act)

New Hampshire 1783 (constitutional interpretation)

Rhode Island 1784 (gradual emancipation act)

Connecticut 1784 and 1797 (gradual emancipation act)

New York 1799 and 1817 (gradual emancipation act)

New Jersey 1804 (gradual emancipation act)


The Emancipation Proclamation only applying to the South is a red herring because that's all it needed to apply to.  Slavery was already outlawed in the North.

Quote from: k-pappy on Tue Dec 12, 2006 - 10:42:12
Most of your facts and myths are backwards....trust me, I lived in Mississippi, the last hold out, heck they are still holding out (but that's a different post  ), and even they see things differently than you posted.

For example, the confederate flag is, in fact, refered to as the "stars and bars" not the "southern cross."  The confederate flag has come to represent racism...how that came about is certainly debatable, but in MS, it is displayed with racists pride.

Lincoln was in fact the "Great Emancipator"  Who do you think issued the Emmancipation Proclaimation?  Vilifying the man does not correct myths, it even furthers them.  Lincoln was not necessarily a nice guy, but nor was he as evil as you make him out to be.

Also, the south only started freeing its slaves when they needed soldiers in their army.  It was not any sort of altruism on their part.  Saying the "revered" slavery is a gross mischaracterization just you can bust a "myth."  The fact is their entire economy was dependant on slaves.  Why do you think the north helped out so much after the war?  Their economy was in shambles when the slaves were freed.

As for the confederate army being composed of "rich land owners," where did that come from?  No valid history book I ever read said that.

Finally, you neglected to mention one very important thing:  The south fired the shots that began the civil war.

KP
PS...many southerners are still proud members of the KKK...during its heyday, those "good southern folk" lynched and burned "colored" people.

...er...don't you know how strong the klan was in indiana??

good grief.

dj

The Klan was once a serious political party and did better in Indiana than anyplace else.

The Stars and Bars was a flag with 2 red stripes and 1 white stripe and 13 stars in a circle in a blue canton. However in common usage many people refer to the battle flag as the stars and bars. The Southern Cross was a naval flag and rectangular, the battle flag square though the designs were essentially the same.

Display of Confederate flags was illegal for a time but during World War II was informally adopted by some units of the US Army. One was raised over the captured Japanese HQ on Okinawa but taken down quickly. Black soldiers complained about such usage and faded quickly in the military.

There was a great deal of concern over slavery in the south. Slave populations had grown to such a level by birthrate that there was concern that there numbers would become so great that control could not be maintained and there was general support for ending the importation of slaves to prevent increasing the population to uncontrollable numbers. Banning importation should not be confused with support for ending slavery.

Yes the war was about money. Yes tariffs were an issue but so was the costly practice of many northern officials to refuse to comply with fugutive slave laws. Their refusual to return fugutive slaves was expensive to southern slave holders because it encouraged more to escape to freedom. That was a specifically mentioned grievance in several articles of seccession.

There were still slaves in the north in small numbers but after 1804 every child born in the north was free and the remaining slaves were subject to freedom either after a set period of time or by purchase of freedom but could not be sold.

The Russian situation really wasn't analagous to the US. The Russian system did permit buying or selling of serfs but rather serfs were bound to the place where they were born and could not leave unless freed.

I figured that yes, anywhere (large farm, plantation, factory, business) still running on a large slave manpower setup would of course have fallen apart when the slaves left, unless they were lucky enough that their slaves had been well-treated, had nowhere else to go anyway, and so didn't run off immediately as soon as they could --

But y'all are forgetting that a major huge reason why there would have needed to be large sums spent on re-starting the Southern economy would be because of the effects of the war itself.  You know, the fighting, the tearing up of normal trade, the total destruction of farms and homes and downtown business centers?  An army -- or two -- tromping back and forth over a region is a very destructive tide.

It would be really cool if I could make stuff true just by stating it as FACT.

I think I'm gonna' give it a try.

MYTH: I'm broke

FACT: I have $1million in the bank

Now I'm gonna' go down to the bank in the morning and try to withdraw that money.  I'll let y'all know how it works out.

FACT:  One of my great-great-great Grand pappies was on the WINNING side with the Union.

FACT:  One of my great-great-great Grand pappies was on the LOSING side with the Confederacy.

Just so you know.....Those jerks at the bank refused to give me the money even though I repeatedly advised them of the FACT of my $1m account balance.  They kept saying something about needing "proof."

i know a lot of people like JB..i live in arkansas...basically he is reading SONS OF THE CONDFEDERACY talking points...an organization with racial overtones

Quote from: Gary on Sun Feb 11, 2007 - 08:33:31
FACT:  One of my great-great-great Grand pappies was on the WINNING side with the Union.

FACT:  One of my great-great-great Grand pappies was on the LOSING side with the Confederacy.

Cool.  If I remember correctly I'm blood related to three Civil War generals: Pickett, Lee, and Grant.

I think I have information that one or more of my great great grandfather's sons [not my GGF, he may not have been born yet] left the state during the war, they were essentially draft dodgers.

Quote from: Dennis on Thu Feb 15, 2007 - 09:09:52
I think I have information that one or more of my great great grandfather's sons [not my GGF, he may not have been born yet] left the state during the war, they were essentially draft dodgers.

I have a gr-gr-gr-grandfather who was a pro-Union "Tory" in Lawrence County, TN and a gr-gr-uncle who fought in a Union cavalry regiment from Wayne County, TN. My own county of Lauderdale was opposed to seccession, as was most of NW AL, but when Alabama seceded anyway we supported the state and  most people served the Confederacy, though there were many pro-Union men who enlisted in the Union Army. About 30 slaves from Lauderdale served in US Colored Troop Regiments (and at least six slaves faithfully served in the CSA). The county of Winston in AL, actually seceded from the Confederate State of Alabama to become "the Free State of Winston."

The Civil War was not all black and white, no pun intended. I think it's largely a myth that the American Civil War was an epic struggle of good verses evil. It was a much more nuanced conflict with lots of gray areas. Thheres plenty enough guilt on both sides to go around.

Pax.

Quote from: Lee Freeman on Thu Feb 15, 2007 - 14:44:45

Quote from: Dennis on Thu Feb 15, 2007 - 09:09:52
I think I have information that one or more of my great great grandfather's sons [not my GGF, he may not have been born yet] left the state during the war, they were essentially draft dodgers.

I have a gr-gr-gr-grandfather who was a pro-Union "Tory" in Lawrence County, TN and a gr-gr-uncle who fought in a Union cavalry regiment from Wayne County, TN. My own county of Lauderdale was opposed to seccession, as was most of NW AL, but when Alabama seceded anyway we supported the state and  most people served the Confederacy, though there were many pro-Union men who enlisted in the Union Army. About 30 slaves from Lauderdale served in US Colored Troop Regiments (and at least six slaves faithfully served in the CSA). The county of Winston in AL, actually seceded from the Confederate State of Alabama to become "the Free State of Winston."

The Civil War was not all black and white, no pun intended. I think it's largely a myth that the American Civil War was an epic struggle of good verses evil. It was a much more nuanced conflict with lots of gray areas. Thheres plenty enough guilt on both sides to go around.

Pax.

I understand that if it had been put to a popular vote Alabama might not have seceded.  I cannot recall the specific way it worked in Alabama, but in most slave states, the slave owners had a larger say either because there were property requirements to vote or because the slaves were counted for determining the number of representatives [just like in the federal system at the time] so the slave owning areas were over-represented in the legislatures and secession conventions. 

But, I part company with you on your last paragraph.  As I pointed out above, the slave owning areas, in large part, determined the secession question.  Further, read any of the secession bills from any state.  Absent slavery, secession, and hence the war, doesn't happen.  In the antebellum years, the slave owners were looking for ways to expand slavery, not to bring it to a graceful end. There are always nuances and shaded issues, but to pretend that there was not a big overrinding issue that led to war is just that, pretending.

Northwest Arkansas (the hill country) was ill-suited to plantation economy and remained generally loyal.

The irony is that the Daughters of the Confederacy did a lot of their earliest monument erection in that area in the early 1900's.

The University of Arkansas (one of two land-grant universities in the state) was built in Fayetteville by the carpet-baggers as a reward to their loyalty and the signature building on campus (Ole Main) features two towers. The northern tower is larger and nicer than the south tower "as a reminder". The other land grant university was for negroes only and was built in plantation country.

Quote from: Lee Freeman on Thu Feb 15, 2007 - 14:44:45

The Civil War was not all black and white, no pun intended. I think it's largely a myth that the American Civil War was an epic struggle of good verses evil. It was a much more nuanced conflict with lots of gray areas. Theres plenty enough guilt on both sides to go around.

Pax.

A truer statement about the Civil War has never been uttered.

There is actually a statue of Abraham Lincoln opposite the House of Commons, and the precincts of the Houses of Parliament contain statues of Richard the Lion Heart and Oliver Cromwell.

Not one, not two, but three war criminals.

Quote from: Lee Freeman on Thu Feb 15, 2007 - 14:44:45
I think it's largely a myth that the American Civil War was an epic struggle of good verses evil. It was a much more nuanced conflict with lots of gray areas. Theres plenty enough guilt on both sides to go around.

Pax.

No doubt.  Remember the Draft Riots in Manhattan?
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/317749.html

An interesting guy from the civil war was the "confederate Jew" Judah P Benjiman.  He was sec. of state, sec of war and VP for the south.  However. he was married to a mixed race woman, successfully defended a British company that freed American slaves from a ship in England before the war.  After the war he went to England became a lawyer there and made Major changes in the English law system. 

One of the greatest tactisions from the south was General Nathan B. Forest (the guy Forest Gump was named for)  However, he has almost been wiped from military history because of one act he performed after the war.  Do you know what he did?

Quote from: Johnb on Sun Feb 03, 2008 - 20:30:28
One of the greatest tactisions from the south was General Nathan B. Forest (the guy Forest Gump was named for)  However, he has almost been wiped from military history because of one act he performed after the war.  Do you know what he did?

Founded the KKK. 

But he didn't.  At least that's what I was told on this board in the past--with evidence.  I don't have the mental capability to look it up now, but apparently, in spite of this being repeated by a lot of credible sources, it isn't true.  He did become an early leader of the organization, but doesn't seem to have been a founder.

Now what happened at Fort Pillow is another story.

There's a thread around here somewhere....

There is some dispute as to Nathan being a founding member but there is little doubt that he was the first grand wizard.  1867

I wish I could find the old thread, but I'm not sure it still exists.  Someone (Lee Freeman, maybe) was really defending Forest, who apparently made a speech supporting full rights for ex-slaves late in his life.  Fort Pillow makes me skeptical.  It's just my opinion, based on what I've read, but I think he was complicit in the slaughter of black soldiers there.

There are several misconceptions mentioned throughout this thread that really need to be cleared up.  The KKK was not originally a racist organization.  The KKK began as a group intending to intimidate carpetbaggers during Reconstruction when the federal government placed their "agents" in political positions in the conquered states and did not allow the REAL constituency to vote for their representatives.

As far as people using the Confederate flag as a racist symbol...homosexuals have been using the rainbow as their symbol for years, but Christians should never consider the rainbow to be a progay symbol.  The same applies to OUR flag. 

The Emancipation Proclamation did not free a single slave.  Lincoln's speech stated (paraphrase) that slaves in those rebelling states are free.  Lincoln had no authority over states that had left the Union.  And yes, there were slaves in some of the upper states.

Many blac,ks fought for the Confederacy.  Louisisna was home to the largest population of free blacks and their are numerous accounts of LA blacks volunteering for service in the CSA.  Check out H.K. Edgerton at Southernheritage411.com which is a site devoted to the REAL history of the War of Northern Aggression by our colored brothers. 

It is also interesting to know that there were several BLACK SLAVEOWNERS also.  As a matter of fact, out of the first group of slaves (19?) brought to America, one or more became slaveholders.

Lincoln was a rabid racist and had no intent of freeing slaves.  The EP was a political move to pander to the abolitionists.  He referred to blacks in the most derogatory ways.  Most of the free states despised the idea of black immigration into the North because they feared for their jobs.  The North held to a more hostile view of blacks than the South by far.

Another myth not mentioned is that slaveowners generally "abused" their slaves.  Firstly, this would be disadvantageous to the slaveowner as it would cut productivity.  Secondly, a couple of political agitators from the North came to Dixie to write a book on the atrocities of slavery and could not come up with enough material to write an essay.  Blacks were generally treated better as slaves in the South than they were freedmen in the North.  There was no great exodus of free blacks to the North after the war.  Why was that?

Racial slavery was a dying institution in the South.  The only people disputing that are those who wish to justify Lincoln's tyranny on the whole nation.  Keep in mind that he suspended the writ of habeus corpus and had hundreds of NORTHERN reporters arrested, not to mention the legislators that he had arrested so that they would not vote for the seccession of Maryland.  Any reporter that criticized Lincoln or his imperialistic war on the South were arrested without charge and thrown into prison.  One of the men tossed into the slammer was Francis Scott Key's grandson (?).  Ironically he was imprisoned at Fort McHenry, the same site where Key wrote the Star Spangled Banner. 

SCV as an organization does not have racial overtones.    That is absurd. 

The great preacher, R.L. Dabney warned the South not to let "them" rewrite the history, but through the systematic destruction of the southern way of life (and I am not referring to slavery) through the atrocious Reconstruction period, we surrendered our history to the tyrannical central government.  States' rights essentially disappeared, Lincoln has been coronated as the greatest President ever, and the principles of seccession that gained America's independence from the British crown have been condemned now.

Historically, that's a load of garbage, but I guess you can believe what you want to believe.  I might suggest that people read legitimate histories, though.  You know, the ones that refer to original documents and such.

Just a few points:

Anyone who calls Lincoln a "rabid racist" knows nothing about him and has read few of his actual words in context.

There's a thread around here somewhere that tells about the high percentage of slaveowners who had children with their female slaves, then kept their own offspring in slavery.  The idea that slaveowners treated their slaves kindly is repugnant and vile.

Jefferson Davis also suspended Habeus Corpus in the South.  That's conveniently forgotten.  The US Constitution supports doing this, btw.

The idea that the Emancipation Proclamation freed no slaves is a myth.  The proclamation allowed Union troops to free slaves as they gained territory in the South, and they did so.  Also, as is talked about elsewhere, there is a direct line from the proclamation to the 13th Amendment.

The very people who seceeded said they were doing so because of slavery.  The documents are reproduced on this board.  If you think the war wasn't about slavery, argue with them.

Quote from: k-pappy on Tue Dec 12, 2006 - 14:12:57
If anything, I think in this case, history was written by the losers.  One historian I read put it very succinctly:

"The north won the war, but the south won the peace."

KP

This is a great point.  The losers did write the history, and the Lost Cause was born and perpetuated.

The Civil War was fought over slavery.  Let's not fool ourselves.  No matter how one analyzes the war, slavery will find it's way into the analysis:
Politically: State's Rights?  The right to maintain slaves was THE number one state's right issue.
Economically: Forced labor was the path to huge profits for large planters.  Additionally, the south was concerned about domestic policies that would result in foreign tariffs on their agricultural products.  But the south was largely agricultural because of slaves, and the southern political elite held a favorable view of slavery.  Why?  Because they themselves were wealthy slave-holding planters. 
Socially: The black population was very significant in some areas, SC for example.  Whites were concerned about ending slavery and becoming a minority population.  They believed that slavery provided an institution to control / subjugate a large, potentially hostile population.  And of course there was the inherent racism in slavery.

Quote from: OkiMar on Sun Feb 24, 2008 - 19:35:14
The Civil War was fought over slavery.  Let's not fool ourselves.  No matter how one analyzes the war, slavery will find it's way into the analysis:
Politically: State's Rights?  The right to maintain slaves was THE number one state's right issue.
Economically: Forced labor was the path to huge profits for large planters.  Additionally, the south was concerned about domestic policies that would result in foreign tariffs on their agricultural products.  But the south was largely agricultural because of slaves, and the southern political elite held a favorable view of slavery.  Why?  Because they themselves were wealthy slave-holding planters. 
Socially: The black population was very significant in some areas, SC for example.  Whites were concerned about ending slavery and becoming a minority population.  They believed that slavery provided an institution to control / subjugate a large, potentially hostile population.  And of course there was the inherent racism in slavery.

Just for the record -- this proves we do not disagree about everything.