Christian Forums

Hi everyone,

I just wanted to say thanks to the moderators of GraceCentered for allowing open respectful debate concerning things.  I just recently was asked on another site to not discuss MDR because my beliefs are unorthodox, even thought their statement of faith does not include anything about MDR. 

Anyhow, thanks again to the owner and moderators of this site for being open to discussion.

Blessings,
Sherman

Sherman  What is MDR

Mark

Quote from: Sherman Nobles on Wed Mar 12, 2008 - 13:03:28
Hi everyone,

I just wanted to say thanks to the moderators of GraceCentered for allowing open respectful debate concerning things.  I just recently was asked on another site to not discuss MDR because my beliefs are unorthodox, even thought their statement of faith does not include anything about MDR. 

Anyhow, thanks again to the owner and moderators of this site for being open to discussion.

Blessings,
Sherman

Sherman,

What are your views on MDR? (Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage)

I love to hear unorthodox views.

MDR (Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage).

Hey Charles,

I'll gladly start another thread on MDR; the last thread I did here on MDR seemed to stir little discussion so I just let it die.

Basicly, I believe that:
1. Marriage and family is extremely important to the Lord.
2. Marriage is breakable and thus needs to be protected.
3. Jesus did not disagree with Moses, much less intend to repudiate the bill of divorce; rather, He explained why Moses was inspired to legislate the bill of divorce.
4. Marriage is not a sacrament, but is a covenant; and marriage is not a Divine covenant, but is a human covenant.
5. Marriage is under civil authority, not under church authority.
6. A legal divorce dissolves/breaks the marriage covenant.
7. Remarriage after divorce is not sinful.
8. There are moral and immoral reasons for divorce.

And there is more of course.

And I suppose the biggest thing is how I understand individual scriptures.  Also, I believe the cultural and historical context is very important and thus significantly influences how I understand scripture.

I agree with your stance, we have too many denomantional views of scripture to discount any single one, we have alot we can learn from one another in that regard.  I'm thankful for this safe haven of cyberspace.  Too much of what I've encountered in online communities not only discriminate against you if you are a traditional Christian, they are out right hostile towards anybody that believes the bible is the word of God alone, much less, having faith in the Lord.

We need to persevere and heed the advice given in 2 Timothy 3, for these truely are Godless times and the end is near.

Quote from: Sherman Nobles on Wed Mar 12, 2008 - 13:45:404. Marriage is not a sacrament, but is a covenant; and marriage is not a Divine covenant, but is a human covenant.

If it is God who joins man and woman in marriage (cf. Mat 19:6, Mar 10:9), wouldn't that make it both a Divine and human covenant?

I think this is one of those both/and's, not either/or's...

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Wed Mar 12, 2008 - 14:26:08

Quote from: Sherman Nobles on Wed Mar 12, 2008 - 13:45:404. Marriage is not a sacrament, but is a covenant; and marriage is not a Divine covenant, but is a human covenant.

If it is God who joins man and woman in marriage (cf. Mat 19:6, Mar 10:9), wouldn't that make it both a Divine and human covenant?

I think this is one of those both/and's, not either/or's...

It depends on how one defines covenant, and what God "joining" a couple means.  To me, a Divine covenant means that God is one of the covenantors, one of the person's joining together in a vow.  In the marriage covenant, the man and woman make vows to eachother, and some make vows to the Lord; but I don't think that God makes any vows concerning that relationship.

Also, God joining a couple, what does that mean and how are couple who are "joined by God" different from couples not "joined by God."  The phrase to me is non-specific, likely intended to refer to marriages not forbidden by God.  So man should not tear apart marriages "that are not forbidden by God"; but marriages that are forbidden by God should be broken.  But also note that the command to not do something implies that it is possible, not impossible, for the person to go against the command though there will be varying levels of negative reprocusions.  In other words, the command to not divorce implies that divorce is possible, not impossible.  So even marriages "joined by God" (whatever that means) run the risk of ending in divorce.

Quote from: John 1:1 on Wed Mar 12, 2008 - 14:11:51
I agree with your stance, we have too many denomantional views of scripture to discount any single one, we have alot we can learn from one another in that regard.  I'm thankful for this safe haven of cyberspace.  Too much of what I've encountered in online communities not only discriminate against you if you are a traditional Christian, they are out right hostile towards anybody that believes the bible is the word of God alone, much less, having faith in the Lord.

We need to persevere and heed the advice given in 2 Timothy 3, for these truely are Godless times and the end is near.

We do have much we can learn from and with eachother if we'll respect, honor, and value oneanother more than ourselves.  But that is very difficult to do. 

Mark 10


7 'So a man will leave his father and mother and be united with his wife,[c] 8 and the two will become one body.'[d] So there are not two, but one. 9 God has joined the two together, so no one should separate them."


So      if       God has joined them

How do we know      are you saying that even as christians    we could have married people that were not Gods choices for us     then did he really join us   

What other marriages are not joined by God

Wed through other religions   False gods

Civil unions

Gay marriages

One man   many wife's

etc

bemark,

I'm not completely confident of what "joined by God" means.   

It's connected to the concept of "one flesh", unfortunately that phrase is often mistranslated to mean to become like one person.  However, becomeing "one flesh" simply meant to become "family".  If you are of my "flesh" you are part of my family. 

But anyhow, maybe we need to start a thread in the theology section on MDR.

Blessings,
Sherman

yup, openness it the point here!

and, amen!

I have been ill-treated at one or two forums; but, I just moved on.

there was one I particularly liked, but, two guard dogs ran off anyone they disliked.  After trapping one into negating his own words (from previous posts; thought to be my comments), I bid him adieu, and walked away, with him sputtering something about "context".  He was just a bully and had gotten caught with his pants down.  It was kind of funny watching him argue with himself (from earlier posts) and others questioning me also (really questioning him).

I do not feel that way here.  some of you have been at that forum, but behave gentlemanly here and there (or, lady-like, as the case may be!)

thanks for the kind fellowship.

Quote from: Sherman Nobles on Wed Mar 12, 2008 - 16:17:14
bemark,

I'm not completely confident of what "joined by God" means.   

It's connected to the concept of "one flesh", unfortunately that phrase is often mistranslated to mean to become like one person.  However, becomeing "one flesh" simply meant to become "family".  If you are of my "flesh" you are part of my family. 

But anyhow, maybe we need to start a thread in the theology section on MDR.

Blessings,
Sherman

Thanks Sherman     and  blessing to you  today



Mark

I've always liked it here.  This is the first forum where I really want to keep in touch with.  Many people have been so encouraging to me as I have struggled these days over a variety of issues.
I still wonder how 'Nevertheless' and James (Rondon) is doing recently thinking that they were back when then I noticed the dates of the posts--past posts. I was for a moment genuinely disappointed over that...
Anyway, GCM is nice place to hang your hat.    For that I thank you all.

With warm greetings from (all together now!...) north of the border ,
Michael

Quote from: Sherman Nobles on Wed Mar 12, 2008 - 15:05:26

Quote from: John 1:1 on Wed Mar 12, 2008 - 14:11:51
I agree with your stance, we have too many denomantional views of scripture to discount any single one, we have alot we can learn from one another in that regard.  I'm thankful for this safe haven of cyberspace.  Too much of what I've encountered in online communities not only discriminate against you if you are a traditional Christian, they are out right hostile towards anybody that believes the bible is the word of God alone, much less, having faith in the Lord.

We need to persevere and heed the advice given in 2 Timothy 3, for these truely are Godless times and the end is near.

We do have much we can learn from and with eachother if we'll respect, honor, and value oneanother more than ourselves.  But that is very difficult to do. 

Sometimes it is difficult, we have wars being fought over denominational differences, it does not fare well for either side, we can lead through example here and show that we can all get along, regardless of denomination.

I like being able to go to a thread like this and be able to give out manna points to every single poster, it makes me feel good.

The mutual respect and tolerance of this board is indeed a blessing....Most of us are shut down within a worship center bearing a name we worship under...We are hindered in disagreeing with our SOF church because we are locked in to the system of rules that are familiar and routine of the assembly we attend...

This is a grace centered board....Once we approach the bible with a grace attitude,the scriptures may not mean the same to us ....Grace doesn't mean to accept every belief system as our own but rather that in the name of Jesus we hold a common bond...Nothing under heaven will save us unless we come before judgement by being saved by the blood of the lamb...

We correct one another as believers in order that Jesus' church can continue evolving into a more perfect body...more perfect not perfect....

Just pondering

God bless,Peck

Concerning MDR, the old thread (almost monologue) I did was at
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/index.php?topic=20182.0

Blessings,
Sherman

P.S.  And Peck, thanks so very much for your gentle posts, passion for grace, and heart for the Lord!