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Quote from: Catholic Crusader on Thu Mar 13, 2008 - 22:13:35Feel free to start a thread on the Biblical basis for Mary's queenship. I would be glad to educate you.

So my buddy says he would be glad to educate me on the Biblical basis for Mary being the Queen of Heaven. I find this interesting, and since I love to be schooled about the Bible I would like to take you up on this offer.

Without pointing to the Roman doctrines such as Cathecism, Magisterium, Councils, notes passed in seminary, etc. and just using the Bible please prove that Mary isn't dead but in Heaven (prove the "Assumption" which b.t.w. is such a fitting name...) but prove that she sits as Queen of Heaven.

 

Not a chance..

Quote from: broach972 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 15:36:52

Indeed...

Is Mary's Queenship Biblical?
By Edward P. Sri

.....One biblical theme sheds light on these questions and serves as a key for unlocking the mystery of Mary's queenship: the Old Testament tradition of the "queen mother" in the Davidic kingdom.

In the monarchy of King David, as well as in other ancient kingdoms of the Near East, the mother of the ruling king held an important office in the royal court and played a key part in the process of dynastic succession. In fact, the king's mother ruled as queen, not his wife.

The great pre-eminence of the king's mother may seem odd from our modern Western perspective, in which we think of a queen as being the wife of a king. However, recall that most ancient Near-Eastern kings practiced polygamy. King Solomon had seven hundred wives (1 Kgs. 11:3)—imagine the chaos in the royal court if all seven hundred were awarded the queenship! But since each king had only one mother, one can see the practical wisdom in bestowing the queenship upon her.

A number of Old Testament passages reflect the important role of the queen mother in the Davidic kingdom. For example, almost every time the narrative of 1 and 2 Kings introduces a new monarch in Judah, it mentions the king's mother as well, showing the mother's intimate involvement in her royal son's reign. Similarly, the queen mother is listed among the members of the royal court whom king Jehoiachin surrendered to the king of Babylon in 2 Kings 24:12.

Her royal office is also described by the prophet Jeremiah, who tells how the queen mother possessed a throne and a crown, symbolic of her position of authority in the kingdom: "Say to the king and the queen mother: 'Take a lowly seat, for your beautiful crown has come down from your head. . . . Lift up your eyes and see those who come from the north. Where is the flock that was given you, your beautiful flock?'" (Jer. 13:18, 20). It is significant that God directed this oracle about the upcoming fall of Judah to both the king and his mother. Addressing both king and queen mother, Jeremiah portrays her as sharing in her son's rule over the kingdom.

Probably the clearest example of the queen mother's role is that of Bathsheba, wife of David and mother of Solomon. Scholars have noted the excellence of Bathsheba's position in the kingdom once she became queen mother during Solomon's rule. Compare the humble attitude of Bathsheba as spouse of King David (1 Kgs. 1:16–17, 31) with her majestic dignity as mother of the next king, Solomon (1 Kgs. 2:19–20). As spouse of the king, Bathsheba bows with her face to the ground and does obeisance to her husband, David, upon entering his royal chamber. In striking contrast, after her son Solomon assumed the throne and she became queen mother, Bathsheba receives a glorious reception upon meeting with her royal son:

"So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. And the king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne and had a seat brought for the king's mother; and she sat on his right. Then she said, 'I have one small request to make of you; do not refuse me.' And the king said to her, 'Make your request, my mother; for I will not refuse you'" (1 Kgs. 2:19–20).

This account reveals the sovereign prerogatives of the queen mother. Note how the king rises and bows as she enters. Bathsheba's seat at the king's right hand has the greatest significance. In the Bible, the right hand is the place of ultimate honor. This is seen in particular in the messianic Psalm 110 ("Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool"). In fact, many New Testament passages refer to the right-hand imagery of Psalm 110 to show Christ's divinity and his reign with the Father over the whole universe (e.g., Hebrews 1:13). Thus, the queen mother sitting at the king's right hand symbolizes her sharing in the king's royal authority and illustrates how she holds the most important position in the kingdom, second only to the king.

This passage regarding Bathsheba also shows how the queen mother served as an advocate for the people, carrying petitions to the king. In 1 Kings 2:17, Adonijah asks Bathsheba to take a petition for him to King Solomon. He says to her: "Pray ask King Solomon—he will not refuse you—to give me Abishag the Shunammite as my wife" (1 Kgs. 2:17). It is clear that Adonijah recognizes the queen mother's position of influence over the king, so he confidently turns to Bathsheba as an intercessor for his request.

A few Old Testament prophecies incorporate the queen mother tradition when telling of the future Messiah. One example is Isaiah 7:14, which originated during a time of dynastic crisis in Judah when Syria and Israel were threatening Jerusalem and plotting to overthrow King Ahaz. God offers Ahaz a sign that the kingdom will continue: "Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son and shall call his name Emmanuel" (Isa. 7:13–14).

On one level, this passage points to the next king (Hezekiah) as a pledge that the Davidic dynasty will continue despite the threats of invading armies. At the same time, the royal son who is to be named "Emmanuel" points to the future messianic king (cf., Isa. 9:6–7, 11:1–2). This is why the New Testament says Jesus fulfills this prophecy from Isaiah (Matt. 1:23).

For our purposes we should note how this prophecy links the mother to her royal son. Since the oracle is addressed specifically to the Davidic household and concerns the continuation of the dynasty, the young woman bearing forth the royal son would be understood as a queen mother. This has implications for our understanding of Mary. Since the mother of the king always ruled as queen mother, we should expect to find the mother of the messianic king playing the role of the true queen mother in the everlasting Kingdom of God.

With this Old Testament background, we can now more clearly see how the New Testament portrays Mary in light of the queen mother tradition.

The Gospel of Matthew has often been called the "Gospel of the Kingdom." Matthew emphasizes that Jesus is "the Son of David," who is the true King of the Jews establishing the "Kingdom of Heaven." With all this kingly imagery, it should not be surprising to find queen mother themes as well.

Right away, Matthew shows explicitly how the infant Jesus is the "Emmanuel" child as prophesied in Isaiah 7:14 (Matt. 1:23). As we saw above, this prophecy links the royal messianic child with his queen mother. Further, Matthew singles out the intimate relationship between the mother and her royal son by using the phrase "the child and his mother" five times in the first two chapters, recalling the close association between queen mother and royal son as described in the Books of Kings. Just as the queen mother was constantly mentioned alongside the Judean kings in 1 and 2 Kings, so Mary is frequently mentioned alongside her royal son, Jesus, in Matthew's infancy narrative (Matt. 1:18; 2:11, 13, 14, 20, 21).

We find Mary portrayed against the background of Davidic kingdom motifs in Luke's Gospel as well, especially in his accounts of the Annunciation and Visitation. First, the angel Gabriel is said to appear to a virgin betrothed to a man "of the house of David" (1:27). Then the angel tells Mary, "And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there will be no end" (Luke 1:31–33).

Hear the strong Davidic overtones describing Mary and her royal son: a woman from the house of David giving birth to a son who will be the new king whose reign will never end. With echoes from the queen mother tradition of the Davidic kingdom and the mother-son prophecy of Isaiah 7:14, we can conclude that Mary is being given the vocation of queen mother.

Mary's royal office is made even more explicit in Luke's account of the Visitation. Elizabeth greets Mary with the title "the mother of my Lord" (Luke 1:43). This title is charged with great queenly significance. In the royal court language of the ancient NearEast, the title "Mother of my Lord" was used to address the queen mother of the reigning king (who himself was addressed as "my Lord"; cf., 2 Sam. 24:21). Thus with this title Elizabeth is recognizing the great dignity of Mary's role as the royal mother of the king, Jesus.

Finally, Mary's queenship can be seen in the great vision described in Revelation 12: "And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery" (Rev. 12:1–2). Who is this newborn child? He is described as the messianic king exercising his dominion. In verse 5, the author of Revelation chose the messianic Psalm 2 to describe how this child will "rule all the nations with a rod of iron" (Rev. 12:5, Ps. 2:9). This royal son is taken up to heaven to sit on a throne (Rev. 12:5), and he ushers in the kingdom of God by defeating the devil: "Now the kingdom of our God has come, for the accuser has been throne down" (12:10). Certainly, this newborn child is the royal Messiah, King Jesus.

In this light it is clear who this woman is who gave birth to the messiah: It is Mary. Some people have interpreted this woman in Revelation 12 as merely a symbol either for the Old Testament people of Israel or for the New Testament Church and therefore have concluded that the woman cannot be an individual (i.e., Mary). However, this "either-or" proposition is foreign to the biblical worldview, in which individuals often symbolically represent collective groups. For instance, Adam represented all humanity (Rom. 5:19), and Jacob stood for all of Israel (Ps. 44:4). Given this biblical notion called "corporate personality," the woman in Revelation 12 should be understood as both an individual (Mary) and a symbol for the people of God.

But for our purposes, once we see that this woman is Mary, the mother of Jesus, it is important to note how she is portrayed as queen in this passage. Her royal office is hinted at by the imagery of the sun, moon, and twelve stars, which recalls the Old Testament story of Joseph's dream in which the sun, moon, and stars bow down before him, symbolizing his future authority (Gen. 37:9–11). Her queenship is made even clearer by the crown of twelve stars on her head. Just like the queen mother in Jeremiah 13:18, here Mary is wearing a crown, symbolizing her royal office in the kingdom of heaven. In sum, Revelation 12 portrays Mary as the new queen mother in the Kingdom of God, sharing in her son's rule over the universe.

We have seen how the Old Testament queen mother tradition serves as an important background for understanding Mary's royal office. Indeed, the New Testament portrays Mary as the queen mother par excellence. Thus, prayers, hymns, and art giving honor to Mary's queenship are most fitting biblical responses for Christians. In honoring her as queen mother we do not take anything away from Christ's glory, but rather we exalt him even more by recognizing the great work he has done in her and through her.

Understanding Mary as queen mother sheds light on her important intercessory role in the Christian life. Just like the queen mother of the Davidic kingdom, Mary serves as advocate for the people in the Kingdom of God today. Thus, we should approach our queen mother with confidence, knowing that she carries our petitions to her royal son and that he responds to her as Solomon did to Bathsheba: "I will never refuse you."


source:
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9812fea2.asp

Quote from: Tantor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 15:38:52
Not a chance..

Actually, he has a very good chance.  I think I know where CC is going with this.  The verses are there for a pretty good argument.

Total rubbish.. not even worth responding to.

What is really telling is how Jesus actually TREATED HIS MOTHER during his ministry.

Quote from: Tantor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 15:44:20
Total rubbish.. not even worth responding to.
What is really telling is how Jesus actually TREATED HIS MOTHER during his ministry.

Jesus was without sin. This means He obeyed the commandments perfectly, including "Honor Thy Father And Thy Mother". If you think He didn't, then you make Jesus a sinner.

Quote from: Catholic Crusader on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 15:47:15

Quote from: Tantor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 15:44:20
Total rubbish.. not even worth responding to.
What is really telling is how Jesus actually TREATED HIS MOTHER during his ministry.

Jesus was without sin. This means He obeyed the commandments perfectly, including "Honor Thy Father And Thy Mother". If you think He didn't, then you make Jesus a sinner.

He honored them... but when he started his ministry he didnt think it very important to include the 'future queen of heaven' in it... most of the time his parents had no idea where he was or what he was saying.

Her purpose was to provide a vessel for Jesus' earthly incarnation until he started his ministry.. after that, his parents were just like mine.. living in another state and only occasionally hearing about what their son is up to.

The fact of the matter is that Jesus never really needed a mother to begin with, except to fulfill prophesy... he could have just appeared on the scene if he so chose, but he fulfilled the promises he made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob by letting himself be born of Mary.

Oh, you'll like this one: Everyone's favorite protestant Martin Luther taught that the title "Queen of Heaven

Quote from: Catholic Crusader on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 15:43:13
Is Mary's Queenship Biblical?
By Edward P. Sri

Copy and paste arguments, so you admit YOU cannot prove anything from Scripture?

Quote from: broach972 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 15:44:08

Quote from: Tantor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 15:38:52
Not a chance..

Actually, he has a very good chance.  I think I know where CC is going with this.  The verses are there for a pretty good argument.

Thanks. As I said, it all has to do with that Mary's Queenship is first based on her maternal relationship with Jesus. Here the ancient Hebraic notion of the Queen Mother applies to Mary as Mother of the Messianic King, Jesus Christ. In ancient Israel, the most important woman in the monarchy was generally the queen mother, not the queen. In the southern kingdom of Judah, the kings' wives were apparently never "queens.

I forgot to mention the other scriptures besides "Kings". Proverbs 31:1-9 summarizes the advice King Lemuel's mother gave him on how to govern. Included are warnings to the king against focusing on his harem and against excessive drinking, as well as an appeal that he care for the poor. The close link between the king and the queen mother can also be seen in Jeremiah 13:18. Jeremiah warns of the judgment to come on the monarchy and includes the queen mother: "Say to the king and to the queen mother: come down from your throne; From your heads fall your magnificent crowns.

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 15:55:08
Copy and paste arguments, so you admit YOU cannot prove anything from Scripture?

Hey, you refused to review the information, so I brought the information to you. The scriptures are in there. If you don't want to read them, that is your affair.

Also, any true student of history will also consult other historical documents. All Kindoms in that region had a queen mother, because often the kings had harems, and rather that have a fight over who would be queen, the queen mother solidified dynastic succession. You would know these things if you took some time to study Semitic culture.

Quote from: Catholic Crusader on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 15:52:26
Oh, you'll like this one: Everyone's favorite protestant Martin Luther taught that the title "Queen of Heaven

Quote from: Catholic Crusader on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 16:03:53

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 15:55:08
Copy and paste arguments, so you admit YOU cannot prove anything from Scripture?

Hey, you refused to review the information, so I brought the information to you. The scriptures are in there. If you don't want to read them, that is your affair.

Also, any true student of history will also consult other historical documents. All Kindoms in that region had a queen mother, because often the kings had harems, and rather that have a fight over who would be queen, the queen mother solidified dynastic succession. You would know these things if you took some time to study Semitic culture.

I am a teacher of history...and CC is correct in his assessment.

Quote from: Catholic Crusader on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 15:58:14
The way to understand these things is to understand Biblical "typology", which is how the Apostles read the Scriptures since they obviously had no New Testament. Everything they understood about Christ from the Scriptures came from the Old Testament

Most people fail to realize this...

Quote from: Catholic Crusader on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 16:03:53

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 15:55:08
Copy and paste arguments, so you admit YOU cannot prove anything from Scripture?

Hey, you refused to review the information, so I brought the information to you. The scriptures are in there. If you don't want to read them, that is your affair.

Also, any true student of history will also consult other historical documents. All Kindoms in that region had a queen mother, because often the kings had harems, and rather that have a fight over who would be queen, the queen mother solidified dynastic succession. You would know these things if you took some time to study Semitic culture.

Misapplication of the Old Testament proves nothing. These are just outlandish interpretations of Scripture used to justify practices that can be found nowhere in Scripture or in history outside of pagan and heathen pantheistic cultures.

You are without passage to prove the Assumption, and without passage to prove Mary as the Queen of Heaven.

Quote from: broach972 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 16:07:31

Quote from: Catholic Crusader on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 15:58:14
The way to understand these things is to understand Biblical "typology", which is how the Apostles read the Scriptures since they obviously had no New Testament. Everything they understood about Christ from the Scriptures came from the Old Testament

Most people fail to realize this...

Come'on broach I never thought you were this far gone. This is called twisting Scripture to prove whatever you want, this is sick and demented use of passages. With this kind of theology I could prove the practice of virtually anything.

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 16:11:57
This is called twisting Scripture to prove whatever you want, this is sick and demented use of passages. With this kind of theology I could prove the practice of virtually anything.

And you usually do....

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 16:09:48

Quote from: Catholic Crusader on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 16:03:53

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 15:55:08
Copy and paste arguments, so you admit YOU cannot prove anything from Scripture?

Hey, you refused to review the information, so I brought the information to you. The scriptures are in there. If you don't want to read them, that is your affair.

Also, any true student of history will also consult other historical documents. All Kindoms in that region had a queen mother, because often the kings had harems, and rather that have a fight over who would be queen, the queen mother solidified dynastic succession. You would know these things if you took some time to study Semitic culture.

Misapplication of the Old Testament proves nothing. These are just outlandish interpretations of Scripture used to justify practices that can be found nowhere in Scripture or in history outside of pagan and heathen pantheistic cultures.

You are with passage to prove the Assumption, and without passage to prove Mary as the Queen of Heaven.

I can see from your statements that you do not wish to approach this in a logical fashion. I have demostrated from scripture that in the Davidic Kingdom, the mother of the king is the queen. Scripture affirms that Christ is "son of David", in the line of David, and He is King. Reading the scriptures "in context" means reading them in the context of the culture in which they were written.

You, however refuse to do all these things. You label anything  that questions your myopic view of scripture as "outlandish" as if that is some sort of legitimate argument. Perhaps you should open your mind to the possibility that there are truths other than what you have read in "Chick Tracts".

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 16:11:57

Quote from: broach972 on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 16:07:31

Quote from: Catholic Crusader on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 15:58:14
The way to understand these things is to understand Biblical "typology", which is how the Apostles read the Scriptures since they obviously had no New Testament. Everything they understood about Christ from the Scriptures came from the Old Testament

Most people fail to realize this...

Come'on broach I never thought you were this far gone. This is called twisting Scripture to prove whatever you want, this is sick and demented use of passages. With this kind of theology I could prove the practice of virtually anything.

It is called making a pretty good argument.  Not only has CC used Scripture to do so, he has also taken into account historical and cultural factors, which is quite impressive (I wish my students would use this type of critical thinking).  If you don't agree with his argument, then pick it apart and quite whining.

No.. its called taking scriptures that were not written to you and me (the OT) and trying to use some sort of logic to prove that they still apply.

Cant wait till I get to heaven... wont have all these catholics to deal with anymore.

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 16:11:57
.... This is called twisting Scripture to prove whatever you want, this is sick and demented use of passages. With this kind of theology I could prove the practice of virtually anything.

Sick? Demented? How sad that you do not understand typological interpretation of the Bible. This is how the Early Church Fathers read the scripture, and is a tool used by all exegetes.

Well, I hope someone reading these posts has benefitted from this information, because you have obviously closed yourself off from learning anything. I give you history, and you close your eyes. I give you scripture, and you close your ears. How tragic.

Quote from: Tantor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 16:19:25
No.. its called taking scriptures that were not written to you and me (the OT) and trying to use some sort of logic to prove that they still apply.

Cant wait till I get to heaven... wont have all these catholics to deal with anymore.

Tantor, if this is the best you have to offer to the discussion....just don't say anything at all.

I didn't even get to Revelation 12:1-5 yet: "A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head" Just like a queen.

WOMAN is a theme throughoout the Bible. The WOMAN would have emnity with Satan, as would her "seed", the woman being a "type" of Mary. And here we have the WOMAN with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

So now we see what Jesus really meant when He called Mary WOMAN at the wedding at Cana. Again, the typology all fits nicely like a glove.

Quote from: Catholic Crusader on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 16:16:33

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 16:09:48

Quote from: Catholic Crusader on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 16:03:53

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 15:55:08
Copy and paste arguments, so you admit YOU cannot prove anything from Scripture?

Hey, you refused to review the information, so I brought the information to you. The scriptures are in there. If you don't want to read them, that is your affair.

Also, any true student of history will also consult other historical documents. All Kindoms in that region had a queen mother, because often the kings had harems, and rather that have a fight over who would be queen, the queen mother solidified dynastic succession. You would know these things if you took some time to study Semitic culture.

Misapplication of the Old Testament proves nothing. These are just outlandish interpretations of Scripture used to justify practices that can be found nowhere in Scripture or in history outside of pagan and heathen pantheistic cultures.

You are with passage to prove the Assumption, and without passage to prove Mary as the Queen of Heaven.

I can see from your statements that you do not wish to approach this in a logical fashion. I have demostrated from scripture that in the Davidic Kindim, the mother of the king is the queen. Scripture affirms that Christ is "son of David", in the line of David, and He is King. Reading the scriptures "in context" means reading them in the context of the culture in which they were written.

You, however refuse to do all these things. You label anything  that questions your myopic view of scripture as "outlandish" as if that is some sort of legitimate argument. Perhaps you should open your mind to the possibility that there are truths other than what you have read in "Chick Tracts".

Why do you keep bringing up Chick's Tracts?

And no I don't label everything that questions my/you/our/his/her/etc. view as outlandish, just ones that misuse passages. Such as mothers becoming Queens, and using that as a argument for Mary being the Queen of Heaven. If thats the case, where is Saul's mother? Where is David's mother? If Solomon is your only argument, that is the exception not the rule, and the person that the King marries becomes the Queen in any Kingdom.

Your arguments are bereft of reason or logic. And are an insult to the Bible to be claimed as Biblical.

And it was also Woman that cause the downfall of the human race..

And the Woman in revelations is the church.. the metaphorical 'bride' of christ.... revelations is a metaphorical or allagorical view of end times... as such, each description of something has a meaning that can only be understood by researching the political and moral situation of the intended recipients of the writer.

I highly recommend "Hail Holy Queen" by Dr. Scott Hahn:



http://www.amazon.com/Hail-Holy-Queen-Scott-Hahn/dp/0385501684

Dr. Scott Hahn is a former protestant pastor who is now Catholic, and who is also Professor of Scripture and Theology at Franciscan University in Steubanville. His book on Mary is very enlightening.

Quote from: Catholic Crusader on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 16:20:45

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 16:11:57
.... This is called twisting Scripture to prove whatever you want, this is sick and demented use of passages. With this kind of theology I could prove the practice of virtually anything.

Sick? Demented? How sad that you do not understand typological interpretation of the Bible. This is how the Early Church Fathers read the scripture, and is a tool used by all exegetes.

Well, I hope someone reading these posts has benefitted from this information, because you have obviously closed yourself off from learning anything. I give you history, and you close your eyes. I give you scripture, and you close your ears. How tragic.

Typological isn't just pick and choose what you want to be the type and anti-type.

Quote from: Tantor on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 16:28:21
And it was also Woman that cause the downfall of the human race..

Excellent! Indeed. Through the sin of the first Eve came the fall of humanity. And through the obedience of the New Eve came the redemption of Mankind.

Typology.

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 16:31:55

Typological isn't just pick and choose what you want to be the type and anti-type.

Quite right. But I did not choose them. These comparisons were made centuries ago by the early Christians.

Quote from: Catholic Crusader on Fri Mar 14, 2008 - 16:31:09
I highly recommend "Hail Holy Queen" by Dr. Scott Hahn:



http://www.amazon.com/Hail-Holy-Queen-Scott-Hahn/dp/0385501684

Dr. Scott Hahn is a former protestant pastor who is now Catholic, and who is also Professor of Scripture and Theology at Franciscan University in Steubanville. His book on Mary is very enlightening.

I figured you can't prove anything from Scriptures, all you can do is just copy and paste other peoples arguments and references to try and prove your point. Go look at the OP again, I said using only the Bible as a point of reference prove your case. So far you are without argument and have shown you cannot prove anything without relying on outside sources. Regardless if the outside source have a spattering of passages or not, its not the Scriptures or your argument.

I wonder how you are going to deal with the fact that there will be no 'sexes' in heaven...

Quote
24Jesus replied, "Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? 25When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 26Now about the dead rising—have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account of the bush, how God said to him, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'?

No marriage.. we all will be equal and 'perfected' as Adam was in the garden before Eve was even created.

Did you know that in a sermon Martin Luther preached on July 2, 1532, the Feast of the Visitation, he said:

"She, the Lady above heaven and earth, must...have a heart so humble that she might have no shame in washing the swaddling clothes or preparing a bath for St. John the Baptist, like a servant girl. What humility! It would surely have been more just to have arranged for her a golden coach, pulled by 4,000 horses, and to cry and proclaim as the carriage proceeded: 'Here passes the woman who is raised far above all women, indeed above the whole human race.'" Five years later, preaching on the same feast day, Luther said, "She was not filled with pride by this praise...this immense praise: 'No woman is like unto thee! Thou art more than an empress or a queen...blessed above all nobility, wisdom, or saintliness!'"(Luthers Works, 36:208, 45:107.)