Christian Forums

Quote from: CDHealy on Wed Apr 16, 2008 - 11:27:05
Unfortunately for all those protesting their defense of promulgating deception about what the Roman Catholic Church teaches, the issue for us Catholics (Roman and Eastern) is not that you all disagree with us.  Heck, I'm all about the give and take of disagreements in arguments.

But only so long as the truth is being stated.

The reason we Catholics are outing you all has nothing to do with your disagreement with what the Church has believed always, everywhere and by all, but rather that you deceptively distort and flatout lie about what those teachings are.  When we defend ourselves by not only denying and giving rational arguments and evidence supporting our denials, you turn right around, ignore what we've said and still promulgate your deceptions about our teachings.  You then, in violation of Christ's prohibition and by use of pseudo-Freudian analysis, go on to insinuate about our motives and that we are either willingly self-deceived (mindless automatons simply accepting without question what we're told--which in my case is absolutely laughable) or willfully deceptive.

This is hateful and unChristian.  If you all want to create a haven for bigotry and hatred, go for it.  Just don't claim that it's Christian.

Healy

Would you like to be the first Catholic I know to answer the following question in the affirmative?

Do you HAVE EVERLASTING life?

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


CRP

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Wed Apr 16, 2008 - 11:41:04Come on Healy,

The catholics here have done the very same things. You can't call everyone that disagrees with the RCC and EO all bigots and hateful because you don't agree with what they are saying.

How many times do I have to say it?  It's not a matter of mere disagreement.  It's a matter of deceptively claiming the Roman Catholic Church teaches and practices things it does not teach or practice, especially in light of evidence and argument that it does not in fact teach and practice what you all are claiming.

And the fact that you continue to construe this as simply we Catholics being tetchy about disagreements--even when I have repeatedly and explicitly denied such a claim--just goes to prove what I'm saying about the anti-Catholic bigotry and hatred.

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Wed Apr 16, 2008 - 11:41:04For one its against the rules to call people bigots on the board, and secondly the very same tactics and ploys you accuse the "anti-catholic" of doing are being done by the proponents of your camp. Seriously, you've had some catholic people here banned for their hateful and on one occasion violent remarks.

I haven't had anyone banned for anything.

But, if anyone, Catholic or otherwise, makes bigoted and violent remarks, then, yes, they should be banned.  Due process should prevail, of course, but once proven, ban 'em.

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Wed Apr 16, 2008 - 11:41:04So don't be a hypocrite and claim that all the protestant are deceptive liars, since then you would be no different.

Once again you deceptively misconstrue what I've said.  I've NOT said that all Protestants are deceptive liars.  I've simply said that anti-Catholic bigots come on here and distort and misconstrue Catholic teachings, and when called on it by argument and evidence, don't back off their bigotry and hatred.

The evidence on these boards of such is pervasive.

Don't you support..

1.) An artificial class of celebate priests?

2.) Belief that prayer to inidividuals (dead or alive) other then the trinity is effectual?

3.) Belief that Mary has some sort of role in salvation?

4.) Belief that man can appoint 'saints' that God will abide by.

5.) Belief that the Bishop of Rome is the head of the church.

6.) Belief that Mary is a perpetual virgin?

7.) Belief that priests have the power to forgive sins or are some sort of mediator.

8.) Belief that there is some sort of festival or holy day structure that believers are to follow?

9.) Believe that the lords supper is something other then a time of remembrance.

If you believe any of the above we really dont have much to talk about because they are all anti-scriptural and looked at as heresy by the protestant church at large...

Quote from: Tantor on Wed Apr 16, 2008 - 14:23:10
Don't you support..

1.) An artificial class of celebate priests?

It's not artificial--it's straight from the NT--and not all our priests are celibate (note spelling).

Quote from: Tantor on Wed Apr 16, 2008 - 14:23:102.) Belief that prayer to inidividuals (dead or alive) other then the trinity is effectual?

Depends on how you mean "prayer to."  No, we do not pray to individuals as we pray to the Holy Trinity.
We DO however ask any Christian, living on earth or in Jesus' presence, for prayers.

Quote from: Tantor on Wed Apr 16, 2008 - 14:23:103.) Belief that Mary has some sort of role in salvation?

Didn't she sort of give birth to God the Son?  So, yes.

Quote from: Tantor on Wed Apr 16, 2008 - 14:23:104.) Belief that man can appoint 'saints' that God will abide by.

No.  God makes them saints.  We simply recognize that.

Quote from: Tantor on Wed Apr 16, 2008 - 14:23:105.) Belief that the Bishop of Rome is the head of the church.

I'm Orthodox, so no--if by "head" you mean universal jurisdictional authority.
Of course, if, as I suppose, you mean "head" in the sense of Christ, then, no, again, only Christ is head of the Church, his Body.

Quote from: Tantor on Wed Apr 16, 2008 - 14:23:106.) Belief that Mary is a perpetual virgin?

Of course.  I'm on record there.  It's the undisputed ancient belief of all Christians.

Quote from: Tantor on Wed Apr 16, 2008 - 14:23:107.) Belief that priests have the power to forgive sins or are some sort of mediator.

No.  Let me quote from the rite of reconciliation: "O Lord God of the salvation of Your servants, merciful, compassionate and long-suffering; Who repents concerning our evil deeds, not desiring the death of a sinner, but that he should turn from his way and live. Show mercy now on Your servant [name] and grant to him (or her) an image of repentance, forgiveness of sins and deliverance, pardoning all his (or her) sins, whether voluntary or involuntary. Reconcile and unite him (or her) to Your Holy Church, through Jesus Christ our Lord, to Whom, with You, are due dominion and majesty, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen.

May our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, by the grace and compassion of His love for mankind, forgive you, my child, [name], all your transgressions. And I His unworthy Priest, through the power given me, forgive and absolve you from all your sins, in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen."

Of course, this is nothing more than the fulfillment of Jesus' promise in John 20:23.

Quote from: Tantor on Wed Apr 16, 2008 - 14:23:108.) Belief that there is some sort of festival or holy day structure that believers are to follow?

Of course.  Just as they did in the NT.

Quote from: Tantor on Wed Apr 16, 2008 - 14:23:109.) Believe that the lords supper is something other then a time of remembrance.

Of course, don't you?  It's a NT doctrine and practice: see John 6:53-57, 1 Corinthians 10:16-17 and 11:17-34.

Quote from: Tantor on Wed Apr 16, 2008 - 14:23:10If you believe any of the above we really dont have much to talk about because they are all anti-scriptural and looked at as heresy by the protestant church at large...

Actually, as I've shown, they ARE Scriptural and if the Protestants see them as heresy, well, then the Protestants are anti-Scriptural, aren't they?

CDHealy,

What is the purpose of continually calling people bigoted, hateful, lying, or deceptive; or using other inflammatory remarks about myself or others? Does this somehow gratify your cause, or does it make you feel better to call others names with whom you disagree with and put them down? Or maybe this is what James called your "alarmist rhetoric"...

I figured you for better than such behavior, but once the truth comes out I guess so do the colors.

And just remember Healy, this is all about disagreements. You think your right, and we think you're wrong. Its no more complex than that. You can get all up in arms and claim misrepresentation, deception, lies and propaganda; but this all stems from a difference in beliefs.

 

This is getting out of control.  I am locking it until tempers cool.