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When the history of The Roman catholic church is as violent and murderours as the Islam of today???

Quote from: oldfart on Sat Sep 20, 2008 - 13:24:49

When the history of The Roman catholic church is as violent and murderours as the Islam of today???

I agree.

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Sat Sep 20, 2008 - 13:25:14

Quote from: oldfart on Sat Sep 20, 2008 - 13:24:49

When the history of The Roman catholic church is as violent and murderours as the Islam of today???

I agree.

(All Religion and governments serve no other purpose other than to use,abuse,and otherwise menipulate those who would serve them.

Anarchy rules!

Quote from: zoonance on Sat Sep 20, 2008 - 13:32:44
Anarchy rules!

Don't give your guns away son don't give your guns away.

Quote from: oldfart on Sat Sep 20, 2008 - 13:29:53

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Sat Sep 20, 2008 - 13:25:14

Quote from: oldfart on Sat Sep 20, 2008 - 13:24:49

When the history of The Roman catholic church is as violent and murderours as the Islam of today???

I agree.

(All Religion and governments serve no other purpose other than to use,abuse,and otherwise menipulate those who would serve them.

You were talking about Roman Catholicism, stay on topic.

I think some people turn catholic because they think they need some kind of Christian religion but they don't want to have to do anything (go to chuch on Sunday, teach the lost, feed the hungry, read the bible, pray) and they don't want to give up drinking beer and acting like heathens.

Quote from: Snargles on Sun Sep 21, 2008 - 13:00:01
I think some people turn catholic because they think they need some kind of Christian religion but they don't want to have to do anything (go to chuch on Sunday, teach the lost, feed the hungry, read the bible, pray) and they don't want to give up drinking beer and acting like heathens.

I couldn't agree more.

Quote from: Snargles on Sun Sep 21, 2008 - 13:00:01
I think some people turn catholic because they think they need some kind of Christian religion but they don't want to have to do anything (go to chuch on Sunday, teach the lost, feed the hungry, read the bible, pray) and they don't want to give up drinking beer and acting like heathens.

I've seen this time and time again...   

I am not RC. However, my good neighbors are.  The go to mass every Sunday.  RC is the largest Christian religion in the world.  They are one of the 3 fastest growing Christian religions in the US.  They have feed many times more hungry etc than the CoC or any other Christian religion.  Painting all Catholics with such a broad brush is  just dumb.  There are good and bad RC like any other religion.  I don't agree with much that they teach and certainly not their structure.  However, that does not give me the right to bash them as doing nothing.  As to evangelism they have been willing to go where their life is in danger to help the poor and carry their message.

Johnb, that "growth" in the RC church is illusory.  Over 80% of their "growth" is among baptisms of infants and little children, who have neither faith or belief nor repentance to have any idea of what they're doing.

Most First Communions are under the compulsion of parents, not the free choice of the kids.

And only a small percentage of all people on the rolls of RC churches, even show up for Mass in the course of an average month.  My whole family left an RC parish back in 1970.  I just inquired at the rectory recently, and we are still on the rolls as members in good standing.

I'm not impressed.

I agree with Steve, given the statistical number of Catholics worldwide the outcome might seem staggering but these polls rarely take into consideration if these people are really practicing or if they were simply christened by their parents as an infant. I think given the overall percentages for Christianity, I  tend to think the numbers would be dramatically lower if these polls were conducted counting those who practiced genuine Biblical Christianity.

The same could be said for most groups.  Generally numbers in a denomination are counted by those on the rolls and not those who attend services.  While I have many points of disagreement with the Catholic religion especially IMO the corrupt hierarchy there are many who have done good things to help the poor and put their lives at risk.  Mother Teresa happens on a lessor degree in many places in spite of IMO the RC leadership.  I am just not so quick to condemn all in the RC.   I also believe the originator of this thread is here to spread discontent on all levels of Christianity.

Quote from: Johnb on Mon Sep 22, 2008 - 11:38:35
Mother Teresa happens on a lessor degree in many places in spite of IMO the RC leadership. 

This is perhaps a minor point in this discussion, but according to her own testimony, MT was not Catholic.  She was far too ecumenically-minded, and allowed for all religions to be a path to heaven.  When she established her convent in India back in the 1950's, it was not under the supervision of any church or bishop.

Steve
Good point.  and that is why I say those connected to the RC do much good in spite of the leadership.  You know from my other posts in other threads I have little use for the institutional church and the RC IMO is the worst offender.  Yet like in all institutional churches there are some who have not bowed their knee to Bail.

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Sun Sep 21, 2008 - 20:20:16

Quote from: Snargles on Sun Sep 21, 2008 - 13:00:01
I think some people turn catholic because they think they need some kind of Christian religion but they don't want to have to do anything (go to chuch on Sunday, teach the lost, feed the hungry, read the bible, pray) and they don't want to give up drinking beer and acting like heathens.

I couldn't agree more.

If you just go to church most every week, you can be a Baptist or Church of Christ and have the rest of the same description.

Quote from: Gary on Mon Sep 22, 2008 - 12:26:50

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Sun Sep 21, 2008 - 20:20:16

Quote from: Snargles on Sun Sep 21, 2008 - 13:00:01
I think some people turn catholic because they think they need some kind of Christian religion but they don't want to have to do anything (go to chuch on Sunday, teach the lost, feed the hungry, read the bible, pray) and they don't want to give up drinking beer and acting like heathens.

I couldn't agree more.

If you just go to church most every week, you can be a Baptist or Church of Christ and have the rest of the same description.

I have never been to a Baptist or CoC fuction that sold alcohol to their members.

http://www.hrosary.org/default.aspx?id=24

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Mon Sep 22, 2008 - 12:55:17

Quote from: Gary on Mon Sep 22, 2008 - 12:26:50

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Sun Sep 21, 2008 - 20:20:16

Quote from: Snargles on Sun Sep 21, 2008 - 13:00:01
I think some people turn catholic because they think they need some kind of Christian religion but they don't want to have to do anything (go to chuch on Sunday, teach the lost, feed the hungry, read the bible, pray) and they don't want to give up drinking beer and acting like heathens.

I couldn't agree more.

If you just go to church most every week, you can be a Baptist or Church of Christ and have the rest of the same description.

I have never been to a Baptist or CoC fuction that sold alcohol to their members.

http://www.hrosary.org/default.aspx?id=24

So?  My point still stands.  We are more "Catholic" than we think.

Okay Gary your right, there is virtually no difference between the Baptists, the CoC and Roman Catholics.

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Mon Sep 22, 2008 - 13:19:55
Okay Gary your right, there is virtually no difference between the Baptists, the CoC and Roman Catholics.

I never said that there is "virtually no difference between" Baptistic groups and Catholics.  Are we playing "So you are saying?"

Quote from: Gary on Mon Sep 22, 2008 - 13:30:43

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Mon Sep 22, 2008 - 13:19:55
Okay Gary your right, there is virtually no difference between the Baptists, the CoC and Roman Catholics.

I never said that there is "virtually no difference between" Baptist groups and Catholics.  Are we playing "So you are saying?"

I guess I don't understand what you are saying. First you assert that Baptist and the CoC fit the bill of what Snargles described the Catholics of doing. I pointed out that their are some extreme differences between the groups in question, to which you only reasserted your point and claimed that we are all more Catholic than we think. So I really don't understand what you are getting at, unless you are just trying to defuse the sting of Snargles remark by spreading it across the landscape of Christianity.

In which case your comments would be without precedent.

Since I gave rise to some of the fuss let me elaborate.

Most of the men at my CoC congregation have some part in the service. We take turns praying, leading singing, passing communion, reading scripture and making announcements. If we miss too many services someone calls up to see what happened to us.

The most I ever hear my Catholic friends say they have done is occasionally take up the collection. If they miss services no one comes looking for them. I know there are some Catholic lay leaders who are more active but in general the members aren't expected to do much. Some CoC congregations around here go around their neighborhood knocking on doors inviting people to worship; Catholics aren't expected to do that. Not to say that one method is right and one is wrong but the general feeling in Catholic churches is that works aren't needed or expected.

I think we have all seen signs at Catholic schools and churches advertising beer parties, bingo and poker tournaments. The difference might come down to we think those things are wrong and they think they are alright if done for the benefit of the church but it gives the impression that you don't have to give us worldly ways to be a good Catholic.

When I look at people I know who have joined the Catholic church as adults they don't do it because they have studied scripture and want to repent of past sins, turn their lives around and go out and evangelize. They do it more "for the children's sake" or to look good in their obituaries.

There are certainly some good Catholics and some bad CoCers but the whole general understanding of what it takes to be a Christian acceptable to God seems to be different.

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Mon Sep 22, 2008 - 13:47:01

Quote from: Gary on Mon Sep 22, 2008 - 13:30:43

Quote from: Charles Sloan on Mon Sep 22, 2008 - 13:19:55
Okay Gary your right, there is virtually no difference between the Baptists, the CoC and Roman Catholics.

I never said that there is "virtually no difference between" Baptist groups and Catholics.  Are we playing "So you are saying?"

I guess I don't understand what you are saying. First you assert that Baptist and the CoC fit the bill of what Snargles described the Catholics of doing. I pointed out that their are some extreme differences between the groups in question, to which you only reasserted your point and claimed that we are all more Catholic than we think. So I really don't understand what you are getting at, unless you are just trying to defuse the sting of Snargles remark by spreading it across the landscape of Christianity.

In which case your comments would be without precedent.

I am saying that many Baptists and CofC'ers are more like Catholics than we should be.  We focus on the worship service, and maybe a few other hours a week.  If you put a good external show for those "appointed times," you can be considered an upstanding Christian.  And still not teach the lost, not feed the hungry, not read the bible, not pray, not give up drinking beer and acting like heathens when it isn't the "appointed time."

I am not trying to diffuse the sting, I'm saying some of that sting is among us "Protestants."  I am saying the reformation didn't go far enough.

Snargles
It might suprise you to know that several folks who left the CoC have become Catholics including a couple on this board.   I had trouble understanding this at first but then realized that they had traded the "one true church"  for the "one true church"  at least in their mind.

Quote from: Johnb on Mon Sep 22, 2008 - 19:12:40
Snargles
It might suprise you to know that several folks who left the CoC have become Catholics including a couple on this board.   I had trouble understanding this at first but then realized that they had traded the "one true church"  for the "one true church"  at least in their mind.

I would like to hear from some of them to know how they handled the transition from participatory worship to "sit back and watch" worship. Or are Cathloics more involved in their worship than I know? I admit that I don't know what goes on during mass or if your average Catholic teaches Sunday School, hosts small group study at home or teaches one on one in their home.

I would also like to know if those who left the CoC for RC came from "problem congregations" or if they made the change based on a study of scripture. I am not looking to argue, I am just curious.

Quote from: Snargles on Mon Sep 22, 2008 - 20:59:15

Quote from: Johnb on Mon Sep 22, 2008 - 19:12:40
Snargles
It might suprise you to know that several folks who left the CoC have become Catholics including a couple on this board.   I had trouble understanding this at first but then realized that they had traded the "one true church"  for the "one true church"  at least in their mind.

I would like to hear from some of them to know how they handled the transition from participatory worship to "sit back and watch" worship. Or are Cathloics more involved in their worship than I know? I admit that I don't know what goes on during mass or if your average Catholic teaches Sunday School, hosts small group study at home or teaches one on one in their home.

I would also like to know if those who left the CoC for RC came from "problem congregations" or if they made the change based on a study of scripture. I am not looking to argue, I am just curious.

I thought RC's sat in the pew, took the Lord's Supper and sang and listened to a homily, plus stand up stand down kneel, etc.  How is what a CofC'er does participatory and what they do not?

RCs sit, listen, stand and kneel while a priest leads them.

In the CoC a member of the congregation (usually different members every week or every 2 weeks) says the opening and closing prayers, leads the singing, reads the scripture, makes comments before the LS, passes the LS, and makes announcements. If the regular paid preacher is on vacation, sick or wants a day off one of the members takes a turn at preaching. Bible classes are taught by members.

In our congregation it takes 11 guys plus the preacher to get through a Sunday morning service. How many people are needed for a RC service (I really don't know)?

If any one wants to complain that we only use men and the women have to sit and watch all I can say is "Guilty as charged."

Quote from: Snargles on Mon Sep 22, 2008 - 20:59:15

Quote from: Johnb on Mon Sep 22, 2008 - 19:12:40
Snargles
It might suprise you to know that several folks who left the CoC have become Catholics including a couple on this board.   I had trouble understanding this at first but then realized that they had traded the "one true church"  for the "one true church"  at least in their mind.

I would like to hear from some of them to know how they handled the transition from participatory worship to "sit back and watch" worship. Or are Cathloics more involved in their worship than I know? I admit that I don't know what goes on during mass or if your average Catholic teaches Sunday School, hosts small group study at home or teaches one on one in their home.

I would also like to know if those who left the CoC for RC came from "problem congregations" or if they made the change based on a study of scripture. I am not looking to argue, I am just curious.

I found this forum and asked some questions similar to what you asked:

http://coctocatholic.110mb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=950&sid=76a77293922059c49f2a4b46496bd854

Thanks Charles
Many here may not have been aware that this is happening.  Althought I left the CoC I would not consider the RC.  Have good friends that are RC and they are good people who believe in God.  Just not a sysyem I could live with.

That being said.  If one is looking for the "one true church" the catholics can make a very good argument  It is the oldest and they have a chart tracing the pope back to Peter.  So if one is looking for authority and the one true church it can be appealing. 

Quote from: Johnb on Tue Sep 23, 2008 - 08:46:38That being said.  If one is looking for the "one true church" the catholics can make a very good argument  It is the oldest and they have a chart tracing the pope back to Peter.  So if one is looking for authority and the one true church it can be appealing. 

The Orthodox and other groups from ancient schisms make the same claim.  In their view, the RCC broke off from them.

Quote from: DCR on Tue Sep 23, 2008 - 08:54:00

Quote from: Johnb on Tue Sep 23, 2008 - 08:46:38That being said.  If one is looking for the "one true church" the catholics can make a very good argument  It is the oldest and they have a chart tracing the pope back to Peter.  So if one is looking for authority and the one true church it can be appealing. 

The Orthodox and other groups from ancient schisms make the same claim.  In their view, the RCC broke off from them.

And the Orthodox and RCC broke off from the Coptics.

Quote from: Johnb on Tue Sep 23, 2008 - 08:46:38
Thanks Charles
Many here may not have been aware that this is happening.  Althought I left the CoC I would not consider the RC.  Have good friends that are RC and they are good people who believe in God.  Just not a sysyem I could live with.

That being said.  If one is looking for the "one true church" the catholics can make a very good argument  It is the oldest and they have a chart tracing the pope back to Peter.  So if one is looking for authority and the one true church it can be appealing. 

The problem is that every group/cult tries to make that claim while denouncing all the others. Catholics do recognize other groups as estranged, while Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons outright call other groups heretics. The Eastern Orthodox and Coptics both call themselves the one true church and also will trace themselves back to Peter (as if that practice was even Scriptural). The problem lies with everyone looking to identify with the right group and not the right person.

I am of the mind there is no one true church, there is only the church.

Quote from: Gary on Tue Sep 23, 2008 - 08:54:25
And the Orthodox and RCC broke off from the Coptics.

And, they all broke off from the original First Century New Testament Lord's Church^TM. 

Quote from: DCR on Tue Sep 23, 2008 - 08:55:44

Quote from: Gary on Tue Sep 23, 2008 - 08:54:25
And the Orthodox and RCC broke off from the Coptics.

And, they all broke off from the original First Century New Testament Lord's Church^TM. 

Yes, the School of the Bible (Bible Church) of which I am a member.

Pineyite.