Santa Claus

Booty · Fri Dec 20, 2002 - 05:52:25

Marc, James,

To be sure I tell them,

:christmas: ¡Jo Jo Jo Jo! :christmas:

Of course I only tell them that while I am in uniform!

:christmas: ¡Jo Jo Jo Jo! :christmas:

As Papa Noel for five different congregations, (I do hope we have fuel for the sleigh this year), and as a perpetual child who will never mature, might I address this issue as an

:christmas: EXPERT? :christmas:

My Lord always was a soft touch for children. He wanted us to be like them, (hence my incurable immaturity!!LOL!!), in our faith, simple, unassuming, trusting. Now does a wee bairn understand the intricacies of the legend of dear St Nicholas? Do we understand it? No he sees a plump jolly old elf in a red suit who is a symbol of love and compassion.

The finest preacher of all time, Paul, had this to say,
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]1 Corinthians 9
19. For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.
20. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
21. To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
22. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
23. And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.[/quote]

So a pagan Irish tinker in an exotic tropical troubled land once each year dresses up in an outlandish costume and subjects his body to the physical suffering of inquisitive children poking and gouging to determine his reality. He makes quite the fool of himself as he shares his love of his Lord and Saviour with wee bairns that know nothing of the history of the Winter Solstice, nor the pagan Saint Nicholas. If that should condemn him to everlasting Hell because some have in all their wisdom decided strain at gnats, then everlasting Hell it shall be. But even in everlasting Hell that pagan tinker will carry with him the memory of Crysledi saying with certainty, \"Jesus meama, Papa Noel lo dijó\"

Marc, James,

I have read many extensive discourses on the unholiness, the apostasy, the sinfullness of Santa Claus and the whole Christmas Celebration. My Celtic blood though admittedly is the blood of pagans, perhaps that is what leads me to say with total love and respect,
:christmas: Bah HUMBUG!!

Merry Christmas,
Papa Noel
a.ka. Brojees a.k.a. Booty

Oh and do pray that fuel can be found for the sleigh!!

JO Jo Jo Jo Jo Jo Jo Jo Jo!!!!!!!

4kidsandadog · Fri Dec 20, 2002 - 13:27:19

But Santa is real.... if we make him real. I dunno, I guess I am a romanticist when it comes to it. I love the whole \"Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus\" thing. What is the quote from The Santa Clause? \"Seeing isn't believing; believing is seeing.\"

Gee, sounds kind of like something I have read somewhere else about someone else we all know and love...

Karen

kmv · Fri Dec 20, 2002 - 16:54:35

Santa not real? Is a fable not true just because it is not factual?

Santa is just an illustration of the idea of giving without counting the cost, of love that doesn't demand payment. (We parents just threw in 'he knows when you've been bad or good...' to get a little break in December). As we grow older, we move from the tangible 'man in red' to the less tangible spirit he represents, just as we graduate from picture books to text.

My husband and I have found joy in being Santa for our children, and they are beginning to discover that same joy in being Santa for others. Of course, we both find joy in the whole Christmas to-do: the presents and tree and lights, the nativity scenes (even with wisemen at the stable) and the candlelight services, the hordes of family and cooking and overfull plates, the songs and the carols and It's a Wonderful Life. The whole thing.

Except for Jingle Bell Rock. I really hate that song.

Kari

ps James - two things:
1) We all know that the actual date of the nativity is probably not December 25th. What difference does the date make?
2) If your young relatives ask about Santa, you & your kids might want to consider the answer 'well, have you asked mom & dad about that?,' if that would be acceptable to your conscience. Otherwise, maybe just be struck mute during the holidays, because telling someone else's kids 'Santa's a lie' is really not your place.

Fri Dec 20, 2002 - 22:57:06

I tell mine bed time stories from the Bible, but also I'm just wondering if I'm a liar because I write fiction and tell my child stories about fictional characters I made up?

I understand the Bob and Larry thing... (whimper) I thought they were real! (Stomping foot). Just kidding. I do see why you might have that point of view. I'm not trying to give you heat I just wanted to join this chat and offer my perspective as a fictional writer.

The American Santa Claus came to popularity because of Thomas Mast--political cartoonist at Harpers Weekly and really accelerated this century because of the Coca-Cola advertising campaign that began in 1928. That gave us the Santa image.

However, the main reason Americans embraced \"Saint Nick\" is the \"Night Before Christmas\" which began as a little poem Clement C. Moore read at bed time to his children. A fictional character from a fictional story!

I will always believe in developing a child's imagination. I would not be where I am today if that had not been fed by parents who mixed the stories of Joseph, Moses, et.al., with a little \"a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...\"

Am I a liar because I write fiction? Tell fictional stories? Just curious... I guess to some I am.

janine · Sat Dec 21, 2002 - 07:34:44

Ya promise? :p

I was asked once. I said, \"No, Santa Claus isn't a real person. He's a Special Holiday Person.\"

That seemed to satisfy the kid & yet not cause Kris Kringle Armageddon in the house.

marc · Sat Dec 21, 2002 - 15:55:26

btw, just went back over the posts, and the \"What do you think?\" suggestion came from Julie and was seconded by Wiley.

marc · Sat Dec 21, 2002 - 16:54:05

Santa, you won't leave coal in my stocking because I started this thread, will you? :cry:

btw, from your greeting I take it that there are no time zones up on top of the world and it's always noon. I've wondered about that. :alien:

Santa Claus · Mon Dec 23, 2002 - 12:30:45

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (spurly @ Dec. 23 2002,10:09)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Santa Claus,

Thanks for the snow you are sending in Oklahoma City. I just wish you had waited until after I had to travel home. Can you give me a ride in your sled on Christmas Eve if the roads are still bad.

A very good boy,

Kevin[/quote]
Kevin,

And what would be wrong with snow? So fresh and clean, sparkling white, pure and pristine!!

But if you need a ride, you need only ask. Of course, afterwards you will struggle with, \"Did the ride really exist?\"

janine · Fri Dec 27, 2002 - 07:26:21

Well, no snow for us, but we did finally get some actual winter weather. Couple days so far of 35 degrees F. (+/-), highs at the heat of the day mid-50's.

That's winter I can deal with. At least there's nothing to shovel. (My grapes aren't very sour, are they? :whatisthat:

susieface · Fri Dec 20, 2002 - 07:27:03

Our views on Santa and Christmas in general are exactly the same as Duckman's. I turned out just fine and so did my 14 and 17 yr. old as far as lying goes. My own parents made a huge deal out of santa clause and so do we. We go out of our way to help our children believe in him as long as possible. It is always a sad day when they stop believing. It is a sign of innocence gone and growing up.

I think our kids believed longer than some because we do not wrap santa gifts (he brings the toys all put together and ready to play with) and they of course never appeared until Christmas morning. Also, Santa gifts are only toys(if that is what they ask him for) and we always buy them every single thing on the santa list. I don't know I love the whole Santa thing. I want my kids to be kids and enjoy all the innocence things of youth. It is only for a short time.

Does, anyone else notice or think that children who believe in Santa seem to be more excited about Christmas?
Susie

janine · Fri Dec 20, 2002 - 13:13:41

I doubt David's heart was about love when he married Abigail... there are other valid reasons to marry, I guess. :)

Has anyone ever dressed up as Jesus and gone around visiting people? Maybe handing them little baskets with barley pitas and smoked herring inside... :idea:

James Rondon · Fri Dec 20, 2002 - 17:49:01

Hi Kari.

I may be reading you wrong... But the post scripts of your last post seemed somewhat derogatory and confrontational. I hope that I'm wrong... But if that is the case, is that a part of the \"Christmas spirit\"?

If someone asks me about Santa, I will tell them what I know... I will tell them the truth. Like I said earlier, I don't go around looking for the opportunity to \"Santa bash\", but if one of my younger relatives asks me, I will tell them the truth (which, by the way, happens quite a bit... A few times I was asked because they knew I was a Christian, and didn't really believe their parents. They asked me because they thought I would tell them the truth... Which I did!).

Why is the truth not my place? If one of my relatives is an athiest, and their child asks me if God is real... Should I just say \"you should ask your parents\"? Truth is truth... I'm not out trying to ruin someone's holiday, but again, if asked, I believe I have to tell them the truth.

I realize some parents don't like the thought of this because it makes them look bad... Believe me, when faced with this, I try to handle it as tenderly and as gingerly as possible. When my nephew asked me about it last week, I told him the truth, but also told him why most people tell their kids about Santa Claus... This, in no way, reflected negatively on his mother.

By the way... Santa is more than a fable. If presented as an imaginery person that represents a \"spirit of giving\", well, that's one thing... But when children are told that he is a real, living, breathing person, with obvious magical powers (I won't even go into that!)... Well, that's an entirely different thing.

As far as the date of Jesus birth is concerned... You asked \"what difference does that make?\" First of all, I realize that most people in general (not even necessarily on this Board) realize that Dec. 25th is not Jesus actual date of birth (it is mine, however)... I was not in any way hinting that I believed otherwise. But many kids are taught that \"the reason we celebrate Christmas is because this is the day that Jesus was born\"... and promptly are subverted into paying homage to Santa Claus instead. Is it also wrong for me to spoil that \"fable\"?

Just a real quick point, in conclusion... My wife was raised by a Christian mother who taught her and her siblings that lying was sinful. She pointed out that any lie... from \"little white lies\", to lies of omission, to the grandiose were wrong, and went against the will of God. My wife was also brought up to believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy. When she finally learned that these characters were imaginery, she began to question her mother. She also began to struggle with lying, since, as she puts it, it seemed okay to do... if for \"the right reasons\". She has, however, been able to overcome this... Unfortunately, her sister is a habitual liar, and has passed this on to her son. One of her brothers is also constantly lying about anything and everything...

Was this all because of \"Santa Claus\"? My wife seems to point to it as being, at least for her, a major, identifiable stumbling point.

Do we need to pass on the Santa tradition? I think the obvious (but difficult for most) answer is no. Can those that do, do it in a better, more God glorifying way? I believe that they can...

With Love in Christ,

James Rondon

\"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.\" (Rom. 14:5-6)

kmv · Fri Dec 20, 2002 - 22:52:26

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]It's one thing for a parent to read stories to their children about, let's say... Bob the Tomato, and Larry the Cucumber. It's another thing to tell them that Bob and Larry are real, that they are watching them, and if they have been good little girls and boys, Bob and Larry will magically transport a load of presents to them and all the other good children throughout the whole world.
[/quote]

Somewhat off the subject, but if the kids are under six or so, they DO believe Bob and Larry are real. That's just how children develop. A while back, the kindergarten daughter of a single friend was watching cartoons with her father. Halfway through Johnny Bravo, she asked him \"Dad, do you think Johnny Bravo would go out with my mom?\" Of course, he really enjoyed reporting that back to her mom!

No Red Suit, you must be one of those lit majors we need. :thumbup:

Kari

Richard · Sat Dec 21, 2002 - 09:31:21

Last Christmas, when my daughter was eight, she asked my wife and I if there really is a Santa. She was very serious and concerned because many of her friends had been telling her that \"your parents are really Santa.\"
We told her that, \"yes the presents that appear Christmas morning labeled Santa are put there by us.\"
She cried and told us that she still believed in Santa. We said they we too believe in the spirit of Santa.
This year, at the age of nine, she still says she doesn't care what everyone else says, she wants to believe in Santa. So this year, there will be presents under the tree Christmas morning labeled \"From Santa.\"

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it :christmas:

Richard

Santa Claus · Sat Dec 21, 2002 - 15:58:01

Good Noon to you Brothers and Sisters,

In the love of our Lord, Jesus Christ, Peace be upon you. I am Santa Claus. Preacher of the North Pole church of Christ and Ambassador of Joy and Good Will to children of all nations and all ages. My elders have met in emergency session and are quite upset. It would appear that two of the elves were web coasting again and apparently encountered something very upsetting here on this site.

Now I have been asked to come here and clarify a few onerous points. So shall we? And the question here is, \"Santa Claus, What do you tell your children?\" Oh No, not that!!

Brothers and Sisters, I confess to the veracity of common knowledge. Mrs. Claus and I have never been blessed with children of our own. Occasionally then this issue arises as we have assumed ownership of all of your children for that very special day set aside to celebrate the birth of our Lord.

We know they are not our children per se and are only entrusted to us for that special day. We take this responsibility very seriously and would never do anything to harm any of them.

I do hope you can accept this.

In His love,
S. Claus

Santa Claus · Sat Dec 21, 2002 - 16:53:05

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Do forgive me, I am so rushed right now. Production lines backed up, two sick reindeer and a major problem with my overflight clearance for that north american country. It seems my documentation clerk elf's name, Nasif Shalon', triggered some sort of profile alert and now we have so much paperwork. All that and a sermon to ready for the morn.

But the elders reviewed my post and brought my error to my attention. I am so sorry, I thought this was another of those \"Custody Issues\" concerning the children.

So the issue is my reality, well silly, you are sitting there reading my post are you not? Do you doubt the reality of other posters? No of course not!

Hmmmm About the Lie... Such a harsh word, so incendiary, inflammatory and accusatory. Perhaps we could soften it to Fib? Or temper it by obfusciation using Prevarication?

Perhaps we might address it in this manner, perhaps one might think of me as a harmless \"Faith Trainer\". The boys and girls have faith in me at a very young age and I do not disappoint this faith. Their act of faith is validated and they learn that faith is not a bad thing to have. Thus their \"Faith 101\", (Professor S.Claus meeting once a year) prepares them to accept other unprovable concepts on \"Faith\".

Now sadly they all seem to outgrow their need for my Fatih Primer, each of them arrives at a day when he or she realizes that my jolly Ho Ho Ho is quite intangible. They all sadly lose the magic of faith in a fat man in a red suit.

Amazingly though, this occurs at the same age that they start assuming their rightful place in the world, realizing that there is a difference between good and evil. The age when they begin to know sin as a reality.

At this point, we do want them to accept a new faith concept, faith in a babe born in Bethlehelm so many years ago who grew to manhood and mounted a cross to do penance for the sins of all. Quite a step of faith that! Faith in a God, supreme over all who sent His only Son to save those who could make the step of faith.

So here I am as a primer in faith, teaching children to believe in the harmless \"reality\" of a jolly fat man, (Jolly that is if we get our overflight clearance in time!!), so that later they might believe in the much greater reality of a risen Lord.

Oh but I do know truth is quite an issue, but I must ask those a question who advocate truth concerning my person. What do you tell a four year old who asks specifically and explicitly where babies come from? I would truly recommend against videos!

Now before I run on, Rudolf is honking!!, please let me clear up a few odds and ends.

Janine, tell Mike not to worry about the cost, it is the right thing to do.

Wiley, that was not me who gift wrapped the comb and labled it \"From Santa\"

James, she really wants a photo keepsake.

Patrick, you need a hug.

Maurine, This year will be much better.

Barry, Your enrollment in Faith 101 has been paid for in full.

Karen, tell the children I have a new ball for the dog. He hasn't forgotten them!
Richard, Do it, but do it with the Lord's love foremost.

Kari, Ah but you already know, don't you dear child?

Well must run, Rudolf is quite insistent and the neighbours are becoming quite vexed with the honking.

Merry Christmas
God Bless you all, REAL WELL!!

Santa

Bon Voyage · Mon Dec 23, 2002 - 14:49:52

Do you really know Yukon Cornelius?

susieface · Thu Dec 26, 2002 - 07:10:44

Thank you, Santa! I needed that.

I trust everyone had a great Christmas. I also loved the snow and still do. We received 8 inches. Beautiful!

Susie

4kidsandadog · Fri Dec 20, 2002 - 09:33:00

While my children are small, yes... we do encourage belief in Santa Claus. As they get older and begin to question, we let them in on the secret that all of us have the ability to be Santa. They enjoy being in on the secret and surprising the younger ones.

Is it much different than how God loves us unconditionally before we come to the knowledge of him, then we share his love with others once we have come to know him??? The children are innocent in their belief of someone whose goal is to make them happy until they learn that they have the same ability/responsibility to share that mission.

Karen

seekr · Fri Dec 20, 2002 - 12:48:27

Spurly

This may take a lot of elaboration. Just go back and read everything I have ever posted. Just kidding.

Jesus said \"It is not what goes into a man that makes him 'unclean'.\" He also said \"the flesh counts for nothing\". When Christ came to earth He showed intent. He broke the Sabbath to show intent. Rahab lied, because love counted more and it was not sin, because it was God's will. David and his men were allowed to break the \"rules\" when they were hungry, because love was the motive and tending the sheep is what shepherding really is. Why wasn't David's sin of adultry counted against him for all those wives and concubines, when God's perfect will was for it to be for us to have one mate and yet he was only accused of adultry with Bathsheba? Was it that David's heart was not about love at that moment?

God already knows we are sinners and we are going to sin...otherwise He would not have to die on a cross. It is not our acts before Him that save us...it is our love and compassion and our willingness to go wherever He would have us go. If we struggle with sin and we never completely overcome it (do we become perfect in this life?)are we unsaved? None of us can escape this carnal nature. So if your sins are weightier than someone else's, are you less of a Christian? If a homosexual comes to God and then falls back into it, is he saved? If he hates the fact that he did this and yet because others are taking harsh stances over his not overcomeing, he gives in, because he lives discouraged...whose sin is weightier at this point? Is it those who have become proud of the fact that they have overcome so much? Pride is the worst sin of all, as they point their fingers at others. So this man who has given up, does God count his sin against him, when he loves Him, if it isn't the act itself, but what lives within? Does God see his broken heart? We look at sin as something other than it is. It is just part of us and will be till we die. The difference is, not if we overcome it all, because we cannot completely, but if we love. Sin is sin, because of a wicked heart and the knowledge that precedes it. The Pharisees were guilty because they saw and knew who Jesus was. Remember the parable of the master of the vineyard? They knew they killed the heir.

What did Jesus say to Peter? Did He belittle him for blowing it? No, He asked \"Peter, do you love me\", 3 times and 3 times said \"then feed my sheep\". Do you love God? Then do not try to change the outside, that only results in arrogance. If you love God then feed His sheep. And you can only do that by giving God, yourself, and allowing Him to work that love in you. And this calls for you to be crucified along with Him.

Does this help answer?

seekr

seekr · Fri Dec 20, 2002 - 14:26:51

Ah, but then Spurly,(sorry about not talking santa) maybe I am saying that. \"Everything is permissable, but not necessarily beneficial\". So in some ways I am saying the rest does not matter. If you only love and forget all the rules, there is not sin in anything, BECAUSE love does no harm to its neighbor. If love becomes a part of your nature, you have fulfilled it all. Are you going to steal, if you love? No. Would you lie though to protect someone innocent from prosecution, such as Rahab did? Would you speed (law) to get out of the way of a car so as not to crash? When do the rules matter? Only if you ARE a lawbreaker. And would God ever ask someone to break a commandment, if it was beneficial to that person, for the greater good? Any commandment, including murder or adultry? I'll leave it at that for the moment.

seekr

James Rondon · Fri Dec 20, 2002 - 19:22:59

Won't that be a glorious day!!!

OldDad · Sat Dec 21, 2002 - 01:00:45

When you stop believing in Santa Claus, you start getting underwear for Christmas.

Grew up in a pro-Santa household, none the worse for it today. I do remember baby brother being somewhat upset when we, his older brothers, (nastily and gleefully) informed him of the truth. He, too, is a respectable Christian citizen these days.

We have never done the Santa thing with our kids, mainly because we wanted Christ to be the focus of our celebration. We have shared with each of them from the moment they could understand the story of the real Saint Nicholas, and how he did what he did out of Christian charity for needy families. A special treat this year, our oldest portrayed Nicholas in a dramatic adaptation of \"Nicholas, the Boy Who Became Santa Claus.\"

Because of cousins, friends, and the media, our kids recognize Santa, and I think they kind of enjoy the winks of understanding that pass between us when the subject comes up around Santa people. And we've enjoyed playing Santa when we shop for Angel Tree kids as a familyeach year.

Bottom line for me, do what brings joy and happiness to your family, but please keep Christ in the center of the season, and your life.

OD

pdwblw · Sat Dec 21, 2002 - 09:46:37

We have chosen not to tell our children that Santa Claus is real. To me, a lie is a lie. We explain Santa Claus to them as we can't get away from him. I grew up believing in Santa in an non Christian home. I can't stand Santa myself, but I am no big fan of all the Christmas trappings. It kind of bugs me that Christmas is a season and the Resurrection is a day. The birth, the incarnation is certainly important and miraculous and incredible. However, the cross and the resurrection are the gospel. I Cor. 15:3,4. The focus in the Bible is more on the death and resurrection than the birth.

Merry CHRISTmas
Patrick

4kidsandadog · Sat Dec 21, 2002 - 16:25:42

Yes, Virginia, There is a Santa Claus

Editorial Page, New York Sun, 1897

We take pleasure in answering thus prominently the communication below, expressing at the same time our great gratification that its faithful author is numbered among the friends of The Sun:

Dear Editor,

I am 8 years old. Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus. Papa says, \"If you see it in The Sun, it's so.\" Please tell me the truth, is there a Santa Claus?

Virginia O'Hanlon

Virginia, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except what they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus! It would be as dreary as if there were no Virginias. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The external light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies. You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if you did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived could tear apart. Only faith, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, Virginia, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives and lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

:christmas:

WileyClarkson · Sun Dec 22, 2002 - 00:16:46

Hey Santa,

Would you bring me some hair for Christmas so I can use that comb that you didn't leave me?

Sure am glad you joined our board. Just wait till I tell my oldest twin daughter!

:inlove: :christmas:

Santa Claus · Mon Dec 23, 2002 - 09:55:37

North Pole Wireless Sevice
A special seasonal service powered by love.

..............................Telegram.................................
Recipient: Susie
Sender: Daddy

Message Follows:

Button nose angel. STOP I know you kept on believing a little. STOP Very proud of you. STOP Merry Christmas and God BlessSTOPLOVE YOU!!STOP

SIGNED
Daddy

janine · Sat Dec 28, 2002 - 21:05:41

Welcome, JacketLinda.

I agree. :thumbup:

Booty · Fri Dec 20, 2002 - 09:43:10

:christmas: Karen, :christmas:

For our database, What did you tell the Pooch?

We recommend you explain carefully that Santa is a friend!! Not to be bitten!!

Best Regards,

Papa Noel
Somewhere a wee bit south of the North pole!

janine · Fri Dec 20, 2002 - 12:33:56

Maybe \"love overrides the rules\" answers Spurly?

My Mike has said more than once... in the family, in public, in a Bible class... that we shouldn't wonder why the youth leave the Church in droves...

We tell them, 'He sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake'. We tell them that he can be all over the world pretty much instantly. We tell then he is a rewarder of the good and a discipliner of the bad.

Is that God or Santa Claus?

We sell them on the fantasy, then disillusion them when they find out the truth.

We tell them the same stuff about God, how He is all over the world and sees them and rewards and punishes and speads wonderfulness... just like Santa.

Well, we swore the childhood tale was true, and it was a lie... why should they believe us when we swear the story of the One is true?

Mike's more worried about the principle, than he is about {shudder}\"Santa and holidays and Jesus was born in the spring!\"

What really is at the heart of it for him is not a fun game of imagination and joy that families play, but that he sees way too many people whose faith, the faith they teach their children, is on the same level as the Santa fantasy.

Nothing more than moonshine and air, stories and platitudes and about enough Bible knowledge to make a sign to hold up at the football game (everyone has seen those John 3:16 men, yes?).

So, I guess it's not that he's against the Santa myth, so much as he wants to see what you're doing to make God more than a myth and Jesus more than a creche-doll this Christmas.

I did this from Mike's perspective 'cause I haven't one of my own, really. My kids didn't suffer any lack of stimulation of their imaginations from not waiting for Santa. They might have liked more decorations than we did/do, though!

Anyway, I see his point, but the topic doesn't rile me as it does him.

James Rondon · Fri Dec 20, 2002 - 15:08:50

[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]And James, I love a lot of what you say, but wouldn't loving respect, towards your relatives and their wishes, count more than a harsh stance? We are free to celebrate or not, but love always overrides the rules.[/quote]
Hi seekr.

Thanks for writing... I am a little surprised by most of the comments on this subject, to say the least... But I somewhat expected them.

As far as my relatives are concerned... We do not take a harsh stance at all!!! In fact, my relatives are the ones that try to push us... It's not the other way around.

I respect their decision to celebrate the traditions of yesteryear... As I do anyone on such matters. But when one of my younger relatives asks my children about Santa, they are going to tell him or her the truth... When one of my younger relatives asks my wife and I about Santa, we are going to tell him or her the truth... We do not go around taking every opportunity to \"Santa Bash\"... But must go with our consciences when the moment presents itself.

Even in matters of \"indifference\", as recounted by Romans chapter 14, whether one celebrates or not seems only acceptible if done \"unto the Lord\", and each person needs to be \"fully persuaded\" in their own mind... It seems that \"rules\" still apply (or should I say, principles). In fact, when speaking of the rule of love, Rom. 13:8-10 says:
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]\"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.\"...
[/quote]
I grew up never believing in Santa Claus, even though my parents and everyone around me said that he was real. I guess I just asked too many questions to stay \"innocent\". I have celebrated Christmas as an adult... Shortly after having children, however, my wife and I decided that we would not celebrate it... But that we would try to use this time as another opportunity to share the message of the Gospel (cf. 1 Cor. 9). To us, this does not mean lying about Santa, or lying and saying that Jesus was born on December 25th, but telling what really did happen as the Bible relates it... And the oh so glorious result!

Most of us are probably aware of the history of Christmas... My point is not to go into all of that, but I wonder if Christians of the 3rd and 4th century still kept up the traditional \"Mithras\" lie, or if they abandoned it?

Just a thought.

I wish all of you a safe and happy season, and hope that we all take full advantage of this wonderful opportunity to share the message of Christ with those around us...

With love in Christ.

James Rondon

Fri Dec 20, 2002 - 20:04:28

I am the mother of four children ranging in age from 9 to 20. My husband and I had some issues with telling our children about Santa...mostly because it just seemed to right to tell your children the truth at all costs. I do read Santa books to my children and there are unwrapped presents under the tree on Christmas morning but we never talk about Santa coming or tell our kids they have to be good or else Santa won't bring them presents. When they would ask if Santa was real...we would ask...what do you think? I also think that would be a good response for James and his nieces and nephews. It puts it back in their laps and they usually have an opinion or they wouldn't be asking. Just a few thoughts. grace, Julie

spurly · Fri Dec 20, 2002 - 23:27:56

Does this discussion remind anyone else of \"Miracle on 34th street\"? I feel like we might get dumped upon with tons of emails to Santa Clause at any time.

Kevin :0

Booty · Sat Dec 21, 2002 - 11:36:07

:saint: I have this mental image of my Lord and Saviour looking down on earth.

[[[[[[[[[[[[[ In various parts He sees the children wiping their runny noses on their sleeves, pushing their hair back from their eyes and trying labourously to finish off their last minute letters to an imaginary elf somewhere. In His view passes one of His favourite spots, an emerald isle where elves and faeries have always....well..... just....been, He pauses and thinks for a moment. Whatever will I do with these people? They always have had their wee folk and always will, yet they love me with unsurpassed passion. If I condemned them all to Hell, the Devil never would forgive me for they as a manageable as a herd of cats.

Yet they have gone to the ends of the world for me and continue to go, willingly. happily. But you cannot translate the infinitive, To Obey, into their unpronouncable tongue. Whatever will I do with these people?

There's another one, loud, opinionated, passionate, irreverent, rebelious just like the rest. Hidden away in some obscure fishing village in a state no one can pronounce, how perfectly in keeping!!

Whatever will I do with him, look he is now not only teaching the bairn that the jolly fat elf exists, he is even perpetuating the myth by dressing himself in Artic garb in a tropical climate!! Playacting as the elf himself, he is!!

What will I do with him? Look at the children flocking to him, climbing on him, pummeling and pulling on him. There, there are the parents drawing clser. The inevitable bottles of beer left behind, loud music turned down as they for a brief moment forget the trials of their world and become as children themselves.

He is talking to them as well, what an accent!! Yet they seem to understand, what's that he is saying,

\"JoJo Jo Jo Jo And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)
5. To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
6. And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
7. And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
8. And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
9. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
10. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
11. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
12. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
13. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
14. Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

JoJo Jo Jo Dios te bendiga!!

What will I do with him? Why I will bless him abundantly for this man would do anything to spread My Word.]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

Just an image to be sure and you know how we Irish are with our images.

Fate · Sat Dec 21, 2002 - 16:08:36

Santa! Tooooooo Fuuuunnnnnnnyyyyy! Ha! Ha! Ha! :D :crackup: He! He! He! :clap: (Oh stop my side's hurting!) Ho! Ho! Ho! (whoops sorry to steal your line :doh: )! Snicker. Snicker! :pray:

This thread definitely needed a little levity :thumbup: . Oh and by the way, while your doing your yuletide rounds, could you drop off a complete set of Kittle's Theological Dictionary? I can't seem to spare the bucks to buy one myself. Also send my kids a PlayStation 2. Their Dad's too cheap to fork over the $200 bucks to replace their perfectly well working PlayStation 1!!! :frowning: :)

Oh yeah, on the lying thing... Saint Nicks no more a lie than the American Dream or any other fable we choose to use to illustrate some ideal. The lie comes in the intentional falsehood for the purpose of deception. If not you might call any story that's made up a lie. Like Shakespear or Milton or Dante or even parables. :p

Just my two cents (another myth or lie seeing as two cents won't even buy a penny candy anymore!) :christmas:

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