Christian Forums

Hello, I am new to the Board and have a legitimate question.  I want to share a little about myself so you know my thoughts on the matter are honest -

I was raised in a Christian home, attended Christian school, graduated from Pensacola Christian, saved at age 7, married at age 24, and was a virgin at marriage.  Have a perfect husband, beautiful children, a great marriage (we can't remember ever fighting).

My husband was saved at 15;  raised in Christian school;  family deeply involved in church.  Neither of us has had a known family dysfunction.

Having said the above, our sex life over the 8 years of marriage has been good to great.  It started tough, as our wedding night I was scared and nervous.  But in the over all, it has been great!  In year 6 of our marriage, my husband verbally offered up, during lovemaking, that he visualizes me with other men.  I naturally recoiled in horror.  I asked him to pray about it, we did together as a couple.  A few weeks later he was bringing the fantasy again into our lovemaking.

Over time, my husband acquiesced in my wish for him to not say those things, and he did.  But I also noticed a lowering in the amount of times he would initiate sex.  So then I felt bad.  I then brought the subject up while lovemaking and he orgasmed better and our lovemaking was greater than ever before!

Long story short, I prayed to God to lessen my husband's interest if it was truly a sin.  My husband, an otehrwise honorable man, respectfully stated his position to me, that adultrey would require a lack of consent on his part.  We have since engaged in me kissing and touching another man orally and with my hands with my husband present.  And I have thoroughly enjoyed it.

We/I have not sought Christian counseling because we have not pursued other forms of pleasure usually condemned as sin, I have not wished for other men or coveted them, and our sex life has been out of this world.  We still attend church, maintain an active prayerlife, and continue to raise our children in a Christian household. 

Yet, everything I read about our choices seems to condemn them.  So, I am still looking for another opinion.  My original belief system is not in question, nor is my faith, but for how my husband and I enjoy sex.  Does anyone have this same situation, or do most still disagree with our choices?

I am a christian married man. And it sounds like your husband may be addicted to porn or voyeurism. Also, "consent by man" doesn't change God's Word, that includes your husband.

There is no opinion on the matter, there is only God's truth. You are fornicating and committing adultery with your husband's consent. You are both in sin and have brought a 3rd person into your sinful lifestyle. Your husband is not being a spiritual leader by entertaining his fantasies.

Perhaps attend counseling to discover your spouse's inner turmoil with voyeurism? You may also want to discover why your husband is not satisfied solely with yourself. I will pray for you both.

Thank you for the reply and the prayer, we all need it, but my husband does not look at porn (we don't have internet in the home and no movie channels on cable).  I am not sure that voyuerism would require counseling - many Christian counselors allow for and encourage moral yet erotic material used in the marriage bedroom, which would contradict your position. 

I am well aware of the Independent and/or southern Baptist traditions your response represents. My husband, aware of my online Christian forum usage but not here to defend himself this moment, should not be judged from two paragraphs of my writing, and he provides ample Christian leadership in our home as my post suggests.

I am open to opinions that are opposed to what I am doing, but hoping for more modern contemporary Christian theorists as opposed to that which we all already know - the legalists interpretation.  A modernist, who still finds scriptural opposition, would provide greater insight than simply we are sinning.

Quote from: jnr2 on Wed Jan 07, 2009 - 12:25:43
Thank you for the reply and the prayer, we all need it, but my husband does not look at porn (we don't have internet in the home and no movie channels on cable).  I am not sure that voyuerism would require counseling - many Christian counselors allow for and encourage moral yet erotic material used in the marriage bedroom, which would contradict your position. 

I am well aware of the Independent and/or southern Baptist traditions your response represents. My husband, aware of my online Christian forum usage but not here to defend himself this moment, should not be judged from two paragraphs of my writing, and he provides ample Christian leadership in our home as my post suggests.

I am open to opinions that are opposed to what I am doing, but hoping for more modern contemporary Christian theorists as opposed to that which we all already know - the legalists interpretation.  A modernist, who still finds scriptural opposition, would provide greater insight than simply we are sinning.

Another man is not 'moral yet erotic material' in the bedroom. I have no position to contradict, I made none, I gave you truth. Do you want an opinion to support yours from someone who calls themselves a christian or do you want God's truth? If you have met with 'christian' counselors that encourage voyeurism & touching of other men than I call them liars & question their faith.

Here is your bottom line:
1) You are committing sexual immorality
2) Your husband is committing sexual immorality
3) Your new partner is committing sexual immorality
4) You have turned your back on God by putting faith in your husband rather than Him
5) Your husband has turned his back on God by putting faith in his flesh rather than Him
6) All 3 of you need to repent
7) Your marriage needs counseling
8) All 3 of you are wrong

What would it profit a man if they were to gain the whole world (have the best sex they have ever had) and yet lost their soul? God says your wrong, so your wrong. Stop trying to find 'christians' who agree with you. Stop putting your faith in men and trust in God.

Sorry but anyone who involves someone other than the husband and wife in any lovemaking is totally going against Gods teaching. it doesnt matter whether you enjoy it or not it is wrong. It is defiling the marriage bed to bring someone else in.
Also, if any Christian counsellors say that using porn or whatever in the bedroom is Ok, I would seriously doubt their  Chrstian faith becuase again that is totally against what The Bible teaches.  I know that you are not using porn but it is being unfaithful and is incredibly damaging to the marriage.We are told not to lust arent we?

It appears from your second post that you are looking for someone to say that what you are doing is ok,I doubt you will  find anyone here who says that it is. This is a Christian site and as such we try to obey Gods teaching on what the BIble says about sex.
Just becuse something turns your husband on, it doesnt make it right does it? There are all sorts of things that turn different people on but if they are against what is right, then that person needs to work on faithful godly sex with only their spouse.    

I appreciate the posts, I asked for them, I was seeking Christian insight, but I was not seeking dogmatism.  I expected many different opinions, but most to be of the same position, that what Iw as doing was wrong.  What I was looking for amongst replies that more than not would be negative was some new insight or opinion - not necessarily to change my opinion, but if it did, so be it, it would be a function of a convicting heart and God's plan, or it would further support my wishes and desires to enjoy this part of our lives. 

What I was not expecting, but received, was another typical legalistic reply.  Pastor Warren, for example, completely is opposed to homosexual marriage, yet when you hear him discuss the matter, his comments are "love the sinner, not the sin,"  I want to pray for those people, God loves them just as much as anyone else, they need our pryers and support, I hope they turn away from these choices they have made."

Not "you're wrong" "evil" or anything that resembled condemnation.  If you believe I am in the worng, the best manner of changing one's heart with Godly advise is with a spirit and tone of  support, sad that you have chosen this path, and encouragement to change course.

I guess my thoughts that those who use internet forums would be of a more persuasive and compassionate manner has been clearly disproven.

Lastly, I do not seek acceptance and support, or justification for my choices, I am very satisfied with the sexual choices we have made.  I am looking for broader insight, perhaps someone who has been through something similar but came out of it ("repented" as you have suggested) - that person would have some insight as to why they went in and why they went out of that lifestyle.

I hope I never approach rebuke and my witness in the same fashion, it will provide more ample fodder for the unsaved to remain that way.

chosenone -

thank you for your reply and I appreciate the tone and effort to stick to advice as to what your Biblical beliefs are, as opposed to dictatorial dogmatics regarding right and wrong.

Let me ask this question.  I do not lust after other men.  I don't go to the grocery store with my kids to scope out the available scene. 

Another aspect to the same question - if I am not having intercourse and they are not in our bed, and it is consensual, is that being unfaithful - if clearly consensual?

This doesn't happen all the time, and in fact is a rare occurrence, and I agree if something turns you on doesn't make it right.  But that doesn't make it wrong if done with consensual parties, is it?

Quote from: jnr2 on Wed Jan 07, 2009 - 13:08:22
I appreciate the posts, I asked for them, I was seeking Christian insight, but I was not seeking dogmatism.  I expected many different opinions, but most to be of the same position, that what Iw as doing was wrong.  What I was looking for amongst replies that more than not would be negative was some new insight or opinion - not necessarily to change my opinion, but if it did, so be it, it would be a function of a convicting heart and God's plan, or it would further support my wishes and desires to enjoy this part of our lives. 

What I was not expecting, but received, was another typical legalistic reply.  Pastor Warren, for example, completely is opposed to homosexual marriage, yet when you hear him discuss the matter, his comments are "love the sinner, not the sin,"  I want to pray for those people, God loves them just as much as anyone else, they need our pryers and support, I hope they turn away from these choices they have made."

Not "you're wrong" "evil" or anything that resembled condemnation.  If you believe I am in the worng, the best manner of changing one's heart with Godly advise is with a spirit and tone of  support, sad that you have chosen this path, and encouragement to change course.

I guess my thoughts that those who use internet forums would be of a more persuasive and compassionate manner has been clearly disproven.

Lastly, I do not seek acceptance and support, or justification for my choices, I am very satisfied with the sexual choices we have made.  I am looking for broader insight, perhaps someone who has been through something similar but came out of it ("repented" as you have suggested) - that person would have some insight as to why they went in and why they went out of that lifestyle.

I hope I never approach rebuke and my witness in the same fashion, it will provide more ample fodder for the unsaved to remain that way.

Sorry that you have not felt that the replies were 'loving'enough, but what did you expect? We dont hate you, we dont even know you but what you are doing is wrong clearly, and I think that you know it yourself.

Quote from: jnr2 on Wed Jan 07, 2009 - 13:08:22
I appreciate the posts, I asked for them, I was seeking Christian insight, but I was not seeking dogmatism.  I expected many different opinions, but most to be of the same position, that what Iw as doing was wrong.  What I was looking for amongst replies that more than not would be negative was some new insight or opinion - not necessarily to change my opinion, but if it did, so be it, it would be a function of a convicting heart and God's plan, or it would further support my wishes and desires to enjoy this part of our lives. 

What I was not expecting, but received, was another typical legalistic reply.  Pastor Warren, for example, completely is opposed to homosexual marriage, yet when you hear him discuss the matter, his comments are "love the sinner, not the sin,"  I want to pray for those people, God loves them just as much as anyone else, they need our pryers and support, I hope they turn away from these choices they have made."

Not "you're wrong" "evil" or anything that resembled condemnation.  If you believe I am in the worng, the best manner of changing one's heart with Godly advise is with a spirit and tone of  support, sad that you have chosen this path, and encouragement to change course.

I guess my thoughts that those who use internet forums would be of a more persuasive and compassionate manner has been clearly disproven.

Lastly, I do not seek acceptance and support, or justification for my choices, I am very satisfied with the sexual choices we have made.  I am looking for broader insight, perhaps someone who has been through something similar but came out of it ("repented" as you have suggested) - that person would have some insight as to why they went in and why they went out of that lifestyle.

I hope I never approach rebuke and my witness in the same fashion, it will provide more ample fodder for the unsaved to remain that way.

Do you think that sharing the gospel in any way tells someone you hate them? If you are showing someone they are in sin, it does not imply hate in any way. Rather, it is a warning, we pray that you will avoid God's wrath. This 'new insight' that you seek, would be from man, and as such not from God. Why do you want a new insight from man?

Why should any Christian 'support' a sinful lifestyle? Wouldn't we then be hypocrites just to make you 'feel better' about sinning? Your statements are entirely illogical. No true Christian will ever support your sin. They will tell you to repent and encourage you to do so. We love you and as such need to warn you that the wages of sin is death. If your life is not transformed, only hell awaits you.

One last thing I wanted to add. Please remember that just because typing or talking has a negative connotation, does not mean that the deliverer of the message is upset or dislikes you in any way.

I'll open the discussion up more. What is a Christian to you?

Quote from: jnr2 on Wed Jan 07, 2009 - 13:13:01
Another aspect to the same question - if I am not having intercourse and they are not in our bed, and it is consensual, is that being unfaithful - if clearly consensual?No

This doesn't happen all the time, and in fact is a rare occurrence, and I agree if something turns you on doesn't make it right.  But that doesn't make it wrong if done with consensual parties, is it? Yes

I'll open the discussion up more. What is a Christian to you?

Quote from: jnr2 on Wed Jan 07, 2009 - 13:13:01
chosenone -

thank you for your reply and I appreciate the tone and effort to stick to advice as to what your Biblical beliefs are, as opposed to dictatorial dogmatics regarding right and wrong.

Let me ask this question.  I do not lust after other men.  I don't go to the grocery store with my kids to scope out the available scene. 

Another aspect to the same question - if I am not having intercourse and they are not in our bed, and it is consensual, is that being unfaithful - if clearly consensual?

This doesn't happen all the time, and in fact is a rare occurrence, and I agree if something turns you on doesn't make it right.  But that doesn't make it wrong if done with consensual parties, is it?

It does concern me that you say that you are very satisfied with the sexual choices that you have made. The sexual choices that you have made are those that are not right for a married couple. You are including someone else in your sex life, you are touching another mans body in a sexual way. You are kissing him and touching him with your hands and with your mouth. The fact that your husband agrees deosnt make any difference, in that what you are doing with this man who isnt your husband is wrong. Where on earth did you find this other man. is he a christian?  How would you feel if your husband said that he now wanted another woman to join you also, how far are you prepared to go in something that seems so wrong.?
if any husband of mine suggested that we bring in another person into our sex life, I would be very concerned,and I woudlnt have anythng to do with it.

Your husband has these fantasies. They are his to deal with and he needs to come to God with them and ask Him for help to deal with them. I dont think that the right thing is to allow his fantasies to become reality, that can only make it harder for you both to get this sorted.  
If the two of you have sex and he is thinking about you with another man, that is his responsibility and for him to deal with but if I were you, I would have nothing to do with this other man ever again.

Sorry I cant be more helpful. but I was quite surprised at what you said and that you both think it is ok to do this.Most people here are really fine, but like me I guess that they will be equally as surprised at what you are doing.I do hope that you manage to get this sorted out and that you can both have a good sex life together with no one else involved.

You have a legitimate question...  But, you know... anytime we stand up against sin here... we get the "not loving" response back.

You bring a questions that goes against the WORD of GOD to the body of Christ, saying you want to know what we think, and when we tell you... then we picked on you?  No... you picked us to try to get some "go for it" response from and when it didn't come to you... now you are acting like a 3 year old being told she can't have candy before dinner.

Revelation 21:7-8 holds your answer...   receive or reject it as you choose.   

"He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his GOD and he will be My son.  But, for the cowardly, and unbelieving and abominable and murders and IMMORAL persons and scorcerers and idolaters and all liars, and their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

I speak no condemnation to you, but the WORD of God that is written for all believers to know, the condemning will come from your choices on judgment day when the LORD God Almighty, Holy one of Israel, Who was an is and is to come, shall speak these words to you and you husband for your choices... "Depart from me, I knew you not"...  And you will be condemned forever to to the Lake of fire... better known as Hell.

But, the choice is still up to you.

"Yet, everything I read about our choices seems to condemn them.  So, I am still looking for another opinion."

Think about what you just said here....  in this line.

EVERYTHING so far has said that being with another man while married is wrong... but you are LOOKING for another opinion.

My suggestion is that you don't look in the BIBLE for your answers or ask Christians, but go to a swinger site who will support your choice to participate in the abomination before the LORD... sear your conscience and move forward in your quest to pervert your marriage without involving other Christians who can in "NO WAY" say to you... "this is OK" for they too will be brought into your Revelation 21:7-8" situation when they try to make the word of God a lie for you.

We are not liars, we cannot lie to you, God hates liars, and if you HAVE TO HAVE another opinion to have permission for this perversion... you are on the wrong site.   

And finally, we will not be responsible for your soul at the great throne judgment. We will not add to, remove, or change the Word of God for anyone. The Lord has spoken to you through His word in these posts, now choose God or man.

.

Well, you could also ask yourself if you would want this or to see this in practice for "YOUR CHILD"....  because, that is what you are asking God to do. 

My sincere thought on that is... I could never do such a thing or want my child to.  And I am convinced that a Holy and Righteous God would not want to have you do it either.   

The word of God says not to allow someone in sin to pull you down, but find ways to pull them up...  I believe Proverbs 1 speaks to that. 

As the wife, you had the chance to be your husband's "helpmate" and consider his soul as your responsibility in your marriage.  But, you choose to go to the pit with him rather than meet that challenge and help him find ways to beat this temptation and to overcome the sin, you gave in and sinned too.

I would do anything I could to get between my husband and my kids and sin... ANYTHING.  I actually duked down my 18 year old once as he was headed out to commit a crime.  He said he was going, I said he was not, he decided to push past me to go.  It was unlady like to say the least, and he got hurt, but he did not go to jail or prison.  Today he is a Marine, and a man of honor who blesses me daily, and has actually said, "thanks mom" for that horrible horrible night. 

I ask you... if your husband was standing in front of a truck coming at him, what would you do if he did not want to get out of the street... would you yell, and if he did not move... would you yell louder?  At what point would you try to push him out of the street?  Well, a truck is coming and your husband is standing in the street... right now.  God made YOU his helpmate... no one else... you had better start taking that service seriously.  His soul is in the balance now.

Oh, come on. I don't think this is a serious or sincere question. I don't believe anyone would think for one second that you are "sincere" here. You are either completely stupid or you're someone who gets his or her kicks out of baiting Christians.   

Actually, I know another "Christian" couple who had just this same situation in their marriage....  true story.

He had the same desires.... and she gave in.  They brought another man into their marriage bed.  The end result was, She fell in love with the other man, divorced her husband and married the other man... they are still married.  Her EX husband is now a heartbroken lonely man...  He has repented, but he lives alone and grieves for the marriage he destroyed.  But, what can you say?  He had choices.

There is a reason the WORD says... "For him who OVERCOMES"...  we will be tempted, just as anyone is tempted, sin choices will come our way...  we are to overcome and walk in victory. 

Moral and spiritual considerations aside, this situation will end badly. You may decide to leave your husband for the other man, as in the example kensington gave, or he may decide you are a whore and leave you.  I'm sorry, those type arrangements rarely work for very long.

Consider that all "Christians" are born again into ministry... from the moment we accept Jesus as LORD we have a mandate, a commission from Him to go into all the world and preach the gospel(the truth).

How can we take on such a large and serious thing as preaching salvation to the world in this dire time of Harvest when we live such a thing in private.  If you look at any example in the word of someone who was saved and in called to be a part of the BIG picture that is the body of Christ, and had deception, and lies, hidden things in their life...  God revealed it.  It comes out, and people suffer.

Example:  Ananias and Sapphira lied about hidden sin to the Apostles and God struck them dead. 

We have to take our call to the body of Christ more seriously than this... truly. 

Hi jnr 2
Just a little extra to add to what I said before. Some verses just came to me about our bodies
! thes 4v4 These verses seem very relevant to your situation.
"For this is the will of God, that you should be consecrated seperated and set apart for pure and holy living; that you should abstain and shrink from all sexual vice, that each of you should know how to possess (control, manage)his own body in consecration (purity, seperated from things profane) and honour, not to be used in the passion of lust like the heathen, who are ignorant of the true God and have no knowledge of His will.
1Cor 6v19
Do you not know that your body is the temple (the very sanctuary)of the Holy Spirit Who lives within you, whom you received as a gift form God?YOU ARE NOT YOUR OWN, you were bought with a price (purchased with a preciousness and paid for, made His own).So then, honour God and bring glory to Him in your body.

jnr2
I put 'you are not your own' in capitals becuse I felt that is applied to you, in that your bodies belong to God, and whatever you do The holy Spirit inside you is also doing if you see what I mean.

The one other thing that occured to me is that your husband is actually making you sin by wanting you to take part in this. He is the head of the family, and he is responsible for what you are doing togather with this other man.( I am not saying here that you could not also say no).
Another verse says that we are to take every thought captive and this is what your husband needs to do.If he gets thoughts and fantasies of wanting you to do things with another man, he needs to take them captive and give them to God and constantly be asking God for pure thoughts of godly sex between you both and no one else . There are some verses in the bIble that he could speak out to help him.   

I know that you said that you prayed that God would take his fantasies away if they were wrong. Unfortunately it isnt as easy as that. Our flesh wants to do things that are wrong and our minds want to think about things that are wrong. it isnt up to God but us to say no to these, and if we do that then God will help us.

As someone else said here, it wont end happily becuase we reap what we sow and if we do such things that we shouldnt be, there may well be bad repurcussions, and I know that you dont want anything bad to happen to your marriage.

I am led to understand that many men fantasise about their wives with another women having sexual interactions. How would you feel about this?, There is no difference at all. if they allow themselves to keep on  fantasising about this that is also very wrong and needs to be dealt with with Gods help.

God Bless

Love has no boundaries.

Quote from: seekr on Thu Jan 15, 2009 - 01:21:27
Love has no boundaries.

i agree but so many comes and go kind of thing in it.

Love has no boundries?  Sure there is..  Jesus said that if you continue to reject and reject Him, someday you will reject yourself right out of the gift of hope He died to give you, and find yourself on the outside of the gates of Heaven to eternal separation from Him and His presence.  His gates are closed to you.  His Spirit is not for you.

That is a boundary, and marriage is no different.  You can reject someone and reject them until you cause them to close off their spirit to you and it is over.  Paul set boundaries for marriage, and when we violate them, we reject our spouse and the gift of marriage and having a spouse can be lost to us.  Take nothing for granted.

But don't ever think that you can live in abomination and walk that mess into Heaven,  the WORD says that is just not so...  The gates will be closed.  God said "Don't test me"...  He does not tempt us to sin, but calls us to walk in victory and to overcome sin, and to be righteous before Him.   

Quote from: seekr on Thu Jan 15, 2009 - 01:21:27
Love has no boundaries.

Not sure what you mean by this but God IS love and He has set many boundaires in His love for us. He made marriage for us and it is good and gody. He has put sex within a marriage relationship, and he has also said that the mariage bed muct be undefiled. Sex in marriage is meant to be with two people, the husband and wife and no one else. No other man, and no other women.
Just as we set good boundaris for our children, God has set good boundaries for us. Of course we all have free will whether to keep to them or not, but if we dont there are usually bad repurcussions.

jnr2,

I will refrain from giving you my opinion and just post some scriptures for you to pray over.  Please do just that...read them and pray over them and open yourself up to what God wants and let go of what you want.  Please pay particular attention to the one from Matthew.

Hebrews 13:4
Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.

Acts 15:29
You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

Romans 13:13
Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.

1 Cor 6:12-13, 18-20
12"Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13"Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.....18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

Leviticus 20:10
" 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

Ephesians 5:3
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.

1 Thess 4:3-7
3It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; 4that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, 5not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; 6and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. 7For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. 8Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Matt 5:27-30
27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

I have plenty more if you are interested.  The Bible has a lot to say on your situation.

In Christ,
KP

QuoteLove has no boundries?  Sure there is..  Jesus said that if you continue to reject and reject Him, someday you will reject yourself right out of the gift of hope He died to give you, and find yourself on the outside of the gates of Heaven to eternal separation from Him and His presence.  His gates are closed to you.  His Spirit is not for you.

This response is almost comical. I will repeat LOVE has no boundaries. What does love have to do with rejection? In fact I wrote that because that is what God said to me as I read this thread.

Scripture says "Love covers ALL wrongs." If we as HIS children follow love we fulfill it all and scripture says this.

You can post every scripture and yet not see the truth or intent of what it is saying. So many (most) people here on GCM like to think they are good when the reality is they have so many things buried within and they live in denial of it. To "confess" is to acknowledge what exists inside. That is what jnr2 is doing. k-pappy wrote down the scripture about looking at another in lust as it being the same as adultery. This is what is in many of you and yet you lie to yourselves and condemn the just. You decide what God means instead of allowing Him to speak to you. "Everything is permissible" and somethings ARE beneficial. It takes relationship to God to know and obviously jnr2 is asking HIM.

The natural of this world that God created...flu vaccine can keep us from getting the flu. Snake venom for snake bite, polio for polio and anthrax for anthrax. Seek Him instead of thinking you already know.

Quote from: seekr on Fri Jan 16, 2009 - 10:37:46

QuoteLove has no boundries?  Sure there is..  Jesus said that if you continue to reject and reject Him, someday you will reject yourself right out of the gift of hope He died to give you, and find yourself on the outside of the gates of Heaven to eternal separation from Him and His presence.  His gates are closed to you.  His Spirit is not for you.

This response is almost comical. I will repeat LOVE has no boundaries. What does love have to do with rejection? In fact I wrote that because that is what God said to me as I read this thread.

Scripture says "Love covers ALL wrongs." If we as HIS children follow love we fulfill it all and scripture says this.

You can post every scripture and yet not see the truth or intent of what it is saying. So many (most) people here on GCM like to think they are good when the reality is they have so many things buried within and they live in denial of it. To "confess" is to acknowledge what exists inside. That is what jnr2 is doing. k-pappy wrote down the scripture about looking at another in lust as it being the same as adultery. This is what is in many of you and yet you lie to yourselves and condemn the just. You decide what God means instead of allowing Him to speak to you. "Everything is permissible" and somethings ARE beneficial. It takes relationship to God to know and obviously jnr2 is asking HIM.

The natural of this world that God created...flu vaccine can keep us from getting the flu. Snake venom for snake bite, polio for polio and anthrax for anthrax. Seek Him instead of thinking you already know.

We need to read what the Bible says so that if we think God is speaking to us we can test to see if it is actually Him that is speaking to us. I have heard people say that God told them the most rediculous things that were totally againts what the Bibke says to do, so we have to test everything against the word of God.

Quote from: chosenone on Fri Jan 16, 2009 - 12:05:53
We need to read what the Bible says so that if we think God is speaking to us we can test to see if it is actually Him that is speaking to us. I have heard people say that God told them the most rediculous things that were totally againts what the Bibke says to do, so we have to test everything against the word of God.

Test by confirmation as well. Ask God to place it on someone's heart to discuss the matter with you.

Quote from: fanuvmxpx on Fri Jan 16, 2009 - 12:32:41

Quote from: chosenone on Fri Jan 16, 2009 - 12:05:53
We need to read what the Bible says so that if we think God is speaking to us we can test to see if it is actually Him that is speaking to us. I have heard people say that God told them the most rediculous things that were totally againts what the Bibke says to do, so we have to test everything against the word of God.

Test by confirmation as well. Ask God to place it on someone's heart to discuss the matter with you.

Yes agreed. I dont think that God minds in the least that  we ask for confirmation. I have heard some people say that God told them to do the most awful things that were totally aginst the word of God, such as divorcing their spouse so that they could marry someone else, and another who tried to break up someone elses marriage by telling one of them that the other wasnt right for them etc.. These were people who are mature Christians who just couldnt see that they were sinning so badly.So now I am very wary if someone claims that something was from God and I wait to hear from Him myself and get it confirmed in other ways also.

THIS VERY WRONG FOR YOUR HUSBAND TO ACTUALLY WANT TO WATCH YOU BE INTIMATE WITH AN ANOTHER MAN!!!


You had a clean undefiled marriage and now he wants to destroy your marriage and this will destroy your marriage.

Your husband will get to the point that you will not be enough for him...

Here are some bible scriptures to show you what will happen>>

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:

6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
1 Thess 4:1-8 (KJV)

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
James 1:13-15 (KJV)


13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. \

14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

Gal 5:13-26 (KJV)




22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Romans 1:20-32 (KJV)

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.
1 Cor 10:6-14 (KJV)
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
2 Peter 2:7-22 (KJV)

Your husband needs to come back to God before his conscience is totally defiled and he will Have no conscience of sin.. Then I wonder what else he will do???

Beware your troubles are on the way....   Would you do this thing in front of Jesus, you do know that your angel bares your face before God and all the sin in secret will come out in the open...

God's love has no boundaries, but man's love certainly does. If they couple in question go thru with this plan they will both be crying "Out damn spot" for the rest of their lives. They will not be able to love themselves or each other.

Quote from: Norton on Sat Jan 17, 2009 - 17:30:09
God's love has no boundaries, but man's love certainly does. If they couple in question go thru with this plan they will both be crying "Out damn spot" for the rest of their lives. They will not be able to love themselves or each other.

yes true. marriage does have bundaries set by God. We ignore them at out peril.

I don't know if this has already been brought up or not. One must remember what the purpose of marriage is... To be an earhtly representation of the relationship between Christ and the church. Sex is much more than a physical or emotional act. God designed it to be a very sacred and spiritual event. He blesses the sexual relationship that is within his set boundaries and we should thank him for it. Can you and your husband honestly bow your heads before you commit this act and ask God to bless the sexual union which you are about partake in?  Your husband desparately needs your help to overcome these temptations. I give you this analogy: if he were an alcoholic, would you keep the fridge stocked with beer?
The people hear do not seek to condemn. They are just deeply saddened by the idea of a fellow child of God falling so quickly into the grip of sin and misery.

I have read all the post here on this subject.

You have been given some really great analogies and yet you continue to reject them. You have been given many relevant biblical answerers and scriptures yet you clam they dont apply to you.

Then by your words and actions you are not with God nor of God.

As others have posted you will not find a YES go for it what every makes you feel good is ok as long as all are consensual. You just want find it here or in any Christian forum.

You wrote "Love has no boundaries"  and you are oh so right between a married man and his wife. Then you throw in as long as you both consent. Sorry now you are putting WORLDLY terms in not Godly. Sex of any kind between consenting adults is the worlds view not gods. 

It is my belief that you can and should "love" many people but that does not give you permission to have sex with anyone other then your husband or wife.

Sex however does have many boundaries and you have been given many passages to describe what they are in Gods eyes. But yet you still seek that YES.

Maybe you just don't understand that sex is very pointedly reserved as the union between a husband and a wife. It is not a circus side show for you to use in what ever makes you "feel good".

Now tell me if you husbands desires were to now change and he decided that what he really wanted was to see you dance nude in front of hundreds of men gawking at you and lusting for you would you go out and gather the men to fulfill his desires?  Then he changes again and tells you I really want you to have sex with all these men that consent. Would all that be ok too?

By your statement that love has no boundaries in a discussion about marital sex I tend to believe that you would think it is ok or two men to engage in the act of sex as long as it is called "love" and they both consent. Just isn't right. 

A question for you. Did you or did you not stand before God and vow your devotion and faithfulness to this man you call your husband.

The definition of faithfully in the dictionary is as follows:

#  Adhering firmly and devotedly, as to a person, cause, or idea; loyal.
# Engaging in sex only with one's spouse.

Do you really think breaking this vow that you made to God before I am sure several witnesses is the right thing to do?

Do not try to want and do Worldly things and then try to get Christians to agree with you so that you can justify it in your life.