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What is wrong with abortion?

Those who exercise true love respect all human beings irrespective of their appearance or size.  They, therefore, recognize the humanity of a one cell stage human being by recognizing that it is an independent life form with human genes; and has a human life force within it that initiates, directs and sustains a process to take that person through successive stages of development (over many years) to transform that person from a single cell individual to a fully grown human being with 10 trillion cells, multiple complex systems and a brain with a memory capacity equal to 20,000 computers.  They, therefore see destruction of human beings in the embryonic and fetal stage as murder. They also see such an act as gross violation of human rights because it denies the victim from reaching his/her full human potential.

Whether or not it is "Murder", a law defined by man, it certainly is Killing...which the Bible addresses.

Quote from: fanuvmxpx on Thu Feb 05, 2009 - 22:14:12
Whether or not it is "Murder", a law defined by man, it certainly is Killing...which the Bible addresses.

Since it is premeditated, it fits the definition of murder.

In Christ,
KP

I prefer this definition of murder (the noun):

"The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice." from West's Encyclopedia of American Law.

Two very important words in this definition....."unlawful" and "malice."

Abortion is even worse than murder. Its infanticide and mutilation;

ABORTION - THE SILENT SCREAM #1 / Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THS2zZ4m260

"I set before you this day, life and death, choose life"... God. 

And this is what makes even legal abortion, UNLAWFUL....

"And The Lord your God will put all these curses upon your foes and enemies who persecuted you. And you shall again obey the voice of The Lord, and keep all His Commandments which I command you this day. The Lord your God will make you abundantly prosperous in all the work of your hand, in the fruit of your body, and in the fruit of your cattle, and in the fruit of your ground; for The Lord will again take delight in prospering you, as He took delight in your fathers, if you obey the voice of The Lord your God, to keep His Commandments and His Statutes which are written in this book of the Law, if you turn to The Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul."

"For this Commandment which I command you this day is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?' Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?' But the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it."

"See, I have set before you this day life and good, death and evil. If you obey the Commandments of The Lord your God which I command you this day, by loving The Lord your God, by walking in His ways, and by keeping His Commandments and His Statutes and His Ordinances, then you shall live and multiply, and The Lord your God will bless you in the land which you are entering to take possession of it."

"But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, I declare to you this day, that you shall perish; you shall not live long in the land which you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess."

"I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse; therefore choose life, that you and your descendants may live, loving The Lord your God, obeying His voice, and cleaving to Him; for that means life to you and length of days, that you may dwell in the land which The Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them." (Deuteronomy 30:1-20 RSV)

I agree with HRobson. I think what should be done is to continue to move back the earliest time an abortion can be had, by proving the baby can survive etc. Ofcourse babies are suriving longer and longer out of the womb, so hopefully a realistic cut back will be to 12 weeks. Then put it down to something like 6 weeks. I think that would then make it very hard to get abortions.

That way, because they would still be technically legal, a few clinics can be left for severe situations, such as when the mother's life has been threatened.

I think for the Christian, the line remains at what is Lawful in the sight of God.  Man's definitions won't matter to God.  He doesn't care about Roe vs Wade...  He cares about life He created and told us to respect.  When we as professing believers start going by what man has said rather than what God has said, we become culpable in the death of millions and millions of babies in the womb.  That is the bottom line. 

Quote from: k-pappy on Thu Feb 05, 2009 - 22:21:43

Quote from: fanuvmxpx on Thu Feb 05, 2009 - 22:14:12
Whether or not it is "Murder", a law defined by man, it certainly is Killing...which the Bible addresses.

Since it is premeditated, it fits the definition of murder.

In Christ,
KP

It is definately premeditated. Those who have abortions in the uk have to have some sort of counselling before then have it.it isnt done on the spur of the moment. Those who have them done are well aware of what they are doing.
IF abortions have to be allowed it should be limited to say the first 12 weeks. There is absoutely NO excuse for those very late term partial birth abortions. They make me sick to hear about what is done. Those babies are murdered by the doctors when they are almost born and are perfectly capable of lfe out side the womb. They go through immense pain when their brains are sucked out. Wr dont treat any one like that so why do we treat babies like that? I just dont get it..
if anyone did to adults what is done to those babies who are viable outside the womb, they would be considered to be the most appalling mass murderers and everyone would say "how shocking etc" but when a doctor does it to babies, it seems accepted. Of course it isnt accepted and those doctors will be held accountable for what they have done, and I dont envy them when they come before God.
before anyone says well these are only a small percentage of the totall abortions, what does that matter. each year thousands of babies who are capable of life outrside the womb are killed. There are people crying out for babies to adopt. What a waste.

Let's interview a few targeted recipients and ask their opinion.

Quotehere is absoutely NO excuse for those very late term partial birth abortions. They make me sick to hear about what is done.

I feel sick to reading about the subject

Quote from: zoonance on Fri Feb 06, 2009 - 07:56:35
Let's interview a few targeted recipients and ask their opinion.

do you mean the women or the babies?

Quote from: k-pappy on Thu Feb 05, 2009 - 22:21:43

Since it is premeditated, it fits the definition of murder.

In Christ,
KP

I agree--at least in most cases Sometimes (As in rape or the mother will die) abortion (like killing) can be justified if not right.

Quote from: k-pappy on Thu Feb 05, 2009 - 22:21:43
Since it is premeditated, it fits the definition of murder.

In Christ,
KP

I agree, my statement was to point out...to the secular world...that even if their laws of men say abortion is not murder...you are still killing a baby, and will answer for it.

James 2:10.  For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Time prohibits me from listing all the law, but I would think abortion certainly would be listed among them. So you get the world to not abort children, and they steal; they are guilty before God.

Outside of Christ all are constantly guilty before God. What sin shall God convict them of? Any one of them!

The world is not going to change without Christ in their lives, and attempting to clean up part of their wickedness without them being cleansed by the blood is worthless.

Now I would hope Christians do not practice abortion, but anything common to man is also possible with us. 1 Corinthians 10:13. "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man."

In countless pro-life endeavors I've observed, there is little sympathy among the world for their message. Again they are trying to convince the world of sin, and that is the job of the Holy Spirit. John 16:8. "And when he (Holy Spirit) is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment."

In conclusion, what is wrong with abortion? Everything and God is going to judge it by Jesus Christ.

In Jesus' name - larry2
 

While abortion is immoral, the state does not have the right to invade the privacy of the family. 

The married woman's body belongs to her husband, so if they choose to murder their unborn child, that is between them and God.  The state has no business invading the family. 

Quote from: Memphis Dwight on Fri Feb 06, 2009 - 12:50:29
The married woman's body belongs to her husband...

I think the hair on the back of Kim Gandy's neck just stood on end.

Quote from: Memphis Dwight on Fri Feb 06, 2009 - 12:50:29
While abortion is immoral, the state does not have the right to invade the privacy of the family. 

The married woman's body belongs to her husband, so if they choose to murder their unborn child, that is between them and God.  The state has no business invading the family. 

So then, if he decides to sell her into prostitution... "Between them and God"?

If he decides to chop her up and eat her...  "Between them and God"?

God meant that the women's body is not your own for the pleasure of sex to withhold from your husband, to be willing, to give willingly, to participate in his satisfaction and pleasure in the marriage.

It had NOTHING to do with his desire for sin or murder.   The brain is hers and she can say NO.  If her body is in threat at any time, she can leave. Forced abortion is abuse/assault ... she can leave. 

Quote from: Memphis Dwight on Fri Feb 06, 2009 - 12:50:29
While abortion is immoral, the state does not have the right to invade the privacy of the family. 

The married woman's body belongs to her husband, so if they choose to murder their unborn child, that is between them and God.  The state has no business invading the family. 

The married woman is neither a slave nor a servant to her husband.  God's will comes first, and if it contratics the will of the husband, it is the woman's duty to follow God's will first.  I know you view a woman's role in marriage as nothing more than a relationship between pet and owner, or cattle and rancher, and you are wrong, wrong, wrong.

love,

sopranette

(added...amen, Kensington!)

I agree Amen Kennsington.

Of course abortion is murder. It's the SELFISH taking of an innocent life.

Quote from: Memphis Dwight on Fri Feb 06, 2009 - 12:50:29
While abortion is immoral, the state does not have the right to invade the privacy of the family. 

The married woman's body belongs to her husband, so if they choose to murder their unborn child, that is between them and God.  The state has no business invading the family. 

AAre you suggesting that God would be OK with this, becuase he wouldnt believe me. God uses some the people who run our countries to oppose abortion (unfortunately there are more who do not), but to say that the country that we live in isnt allowed to try to protect its youngest and most vulnerable citizens then that is totally wrong. If we are all allowed to do exactly what we want then we may as well all just go and break every law that both God and state has bought in.
If you are a citizen of a particular country then you have to abide by its laws.

The part about a wifes body (and a husbands body also of course)not being their own is referring to not withholding sex as far as I remember , and has nothing to do with getting rid of a baby.To use this verse for that is totally wrong.

In conclusion, what is wrong with abortion? Everything and God is going to judge it by Jesus Christ.

In Jesus' name - larry2



I agree totally.  One amazing thing that I have noticed is that if a woman is pregnant, and doesn't want to be pregnant, she is carrying a "fetus."  However, if she is pregnant and wants to be pregnant, she is carrying a "baby."  Seems like the desire to be a mother or the lack of that desire determines what she is carrying.

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good and acceptabe, and perfect will of God."   Romans 12:2

If people took precautions to prevent pregnancies they don't want, we would have a lot less unborn babies being murdered. That inhuman practice is in the millions now.

Quote from: Jon-Marc on Sat Feb 07, 2009 - 10:04:32
If people took precautions to prevent pregnancies they don't want, we would have a lot less unborn babies being murdered. That inhuman practice is in the millions now.

it seems here in the UK that the more the kids are given sex eduaction the most unplanned pregnancies there are.Dont get it myself.

.

Quote from: Hehealedme on Sat Feb 07, 2009 - 21:29:50
The only right precaution to prevent unwanted pregnancies especially before marriage, is to not have sex,  period!...

very true hehealed me but it seems that the young are having sex at younger and younger ages now and despite widespread sex aducation some still think that they cant get pregnant the first time. Apparently sexually transmitted diseases are rampant but no one wants anyone to knwo how very serious this is. (My hubby works in health care) . I dread to think of the long term repercissions of these diseases on society and the individual.
Anyway back to topic.............

Quote from: Bonnie on Fri Feb 06, 2009 - 19:15:26
Of course abortion is murder. It's the SELFISH taking of an innocent life.

This was my thought based on Proverbs 6:16-18 (King James Version)

16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Furthermore, the "Choice" issue is so ridiculous because the She already made the "Choice" when she engaged in the act that caused the pregnancy in the 1st place. So when they speak of the women's choice or Pro-Choice, hasn't Her choice already been made and this is actually Her 2nd Choice?

Manna to you Randy. 

The man's wife does INDEED belong to him. 
We can see this all over the bible but one good place to start is in the Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:17
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his a$$, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's.

All of the above constitute belongings. 

Before a woman belongs to her husband she belongs to her father. 

Quote from: Memphis Dwight on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 11:43:01
The man's wife does INDEED belong to him. 
We can see this all over the bible but one good place to start is in the Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:17
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his a$$, nor any thing that [is] thy neighbour's.

All of the above constitute belongings. 

Before a woman belongs to her husband she belongs to her father. 

I AM my husbands wife and he IS my husband. We belong to each other in marriage but he doesnt own me as I may own a dog or a car.

I'm pretty sure my dog owns me.

Only one nuance though: 
My quote was from the bible.  It has God's authority stamped upon it.  You know, God? Jehovah.  The One that created the entire universe. 

But your statement though:

QuoteI AM my husbands wife and he IS my husband. We belong to each other in marriage but he doesnt own me as I may own a dog or a car.

It rests upon YOUR authority.   Big difference. 

Quote from: Memphis Dwight on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 11:58:30
Only one nuance though: 
My quote was from the bible.  It has God's authority stamped upon it.  You know, God? Jehovah.  The One that created the entire universe. 

But your statement though:

QuoteI AM my husbands wife and he IS my husband. We belong to each other in marriage but he doesnt own me as I may own a dog or a car.

It rests upon YOUR authority.   Big difference. 

You dont need to use sarcasm.

Quote from: Memphis Dwight on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 11:43:01
All of the above constitute belongings. 

Before a woman belongs to her husband she belongs to her father. 

Of course, but in a different context, you can't "sell" or "lease" your wife (legally I should say). You also cannot steal your neighbor's wife, because according to God, their still married. Its illogical to assign man's "ownership" terms to a bride, because God's description of marriage overshadows them.

The only reason my wife belongs to me is because I promised God I would keep her.