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Some will go to Proverbs 31:16 and will claim that the woman there bought land so that must mean she was a real estate agent or some type of career woman.

But that Hebrew word for buyeth in verse 16 is laqach. And of the 965 times it appears in the OT, it is translated as 'buy' only three times. In the King James, here are the ways it is translated:
AV — take 747, receive 61, take away 51, fetch 31, bring 25, get 6, take out 6, carry away 5, married 4, buy 3, misc 26

The real interpretation of verse 16 would be that this woman whose husband was obviously wealthy, went and looked at some of the fields that the family had available and she took one of those fields and set it aside for
a specific purpose.
Young's Literal Translation reads:
Proverbs 31:16 She hath considered a field, and taketh it, From the fruit of her hands she hath planted a vineyard.

These things I say may come across as harsh, but they are indeed necessary.

Don't care what the KJV has to say about anything.

I can easily understand dismissing what Memphis says, but you don't care what the Bible says?

Quote from: OneLung on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 11:47:03
I can easily understand dismissing what Memphis says, but you don't care what the Bible says?

I absolutely care what the apostles and Jesus said... I just do not think the KJV translators cared one iota about getting to the truth when they did their translation.. they were more concerned with translating things to remain in harmony with the doctrine already taught in the anglican church.

Uh excuse me.  The translation that I used was NOT the KJV.  Shows how much you pay attention.  It is Young's Literal Translation that gives the proper rendering. 

On a sidenote:  The KJV bibles that have a margin in them do list that one of the alternate interpretations is "taketh." 

Can you believe so many people would try to justify mothers and wives and daughters leaving the home to work outside based upon such flimsy things? 

Quote from: Memphis Dwight on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 12:02:08
Uh excuse me.  The translation that I used was NOT the KJV.  Shows how much you pay attention.  It is Young's Literal Translation that gives the proper rendering. 

On a sidenote:  The KJV bibles that have a margin in them do list that one of the alternate interpretations is "taketh." 

Can you believe so many people would try to justify mothers and wives and daughters leaving the home to work outside based upon such flimsy things? 

Not flimsy at all.. its common sense.  God may chose to take the husband away.. then the wife/mother is in a world of hurt even if he provided a decent about of life insurance.

I know I'm a bloke but, I've bought land, and it did not make me a real estate agent; and I don't have a career.

So... what's your point?

Perhaps one should not read the bible to ensure one can recite it word for word in all its translations, but devote more time to understanding the message it is trying to put across.

Quote from: Howdyboyalan on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 12:06:42
Perhaps one should not read the bible to ensure one can recite it word for word in all its translations, but devote more time to understanding the message it is trying to put across.

Quote from: fanuvmxpx on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 12:22:06

Quote from: Howdyboyalan on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 12:06:42
Perhaps one should not read the bible to ensure one can recite it word for word in all its translations, but devote more time to understanding the message it is trying to put across.

That would assume that the bible you are reading was translated without bias.

Quote from: Howdyboyalan on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 12:06:42
Perhaps one should not read the bible to ensure one can recite it word for word in all its translations, but devote more time to understanding the message it is trying to put across.

Absolutely!!  Arguing over all the little details get people into trouble.

Meh, Memphis Dwight has been arguing that women are nothing more than collector items for quite a while now.  Phffffft! 

love,

sopranette

Quote from: Tantor on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 12:27:27

Quote from: fanuvmxpx on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 12:22:06

Quote from: Howdyboyalan on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 12:06:42
Perhaps one should not read the bible to ensure one can recite it word for word in all its translations, but devote more time to understanding the message it is trying to put across.

That would assume that the bible you are reading was translated without bias.

The Bible is great. God is better. That's why Jesus spent so much time teaching how to live and to focus on God...so even if man went astray (all the various denominations & such) our focal point is still Christ.

Quote from: sopranette on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 12:35:03
Meh, Memphis Dwight has been arguing that women are nothing more than collector items for quite a while now.  Phffffft! 

love,

sopranette

And that could be added to the other thread where he is trying to prove the same thing. Yeah.

love,

sopranette

Quote from: sopranette on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 12:35:03
Meh, Memphis Dwight has been arguing that women are nothing more than collector items for quite a while now.  Phffffft! 

love,

sopranette

That is the problem. The person spends so much time seeking for particular things that justify them, and particular translations that justify their pre concieved notion, they forget what is really important.

QuotePerhaps one should not read the bible to ensure one can recite it word for word in all its translations, but devote more time to understanding the message it is trying to put across.

QuoteThat is the problem. The person spends so much time seeking for particular things that justify them, and particular translations that justify their pre concieved notion, they forget what is really important.

When ya can't refute, resort to this.  You could have saved yourself some words
and just have called me a legalist. 

What will be remembered in the long run though is not your quasi indignation.  But rather a few will leave with the understanding that Pro 31:16 can be more cogently understood a different way.  And getting the truth out is all that matters at the end of the day. 

Whcih truth memphis. Yours, or mine, or anyone elses? Everything can be seen from a different point of view. Doesn't mean you teaching us your own is correct.

Quote from: Memphis Dwight on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 16:39:34
Have you memorized the Central Dogma of Relativism by heart?  If so, you get a gold star.  Yay!!! Everybody,  Alan refutes the concept of truth so then it must not exist.  Thanks for doing away with that nasty little thing called truth, Alan.  It was getting to be rather annoying. 

The truth is contained in what the Apostles and Jesus said... and if you can prove it.

Quote from: Tantor on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 11:49:52

Quote from: OneLung on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 11:47:03
I can easily understand dismissing what Memphis says, but you don't care what the Bible says?

I absolutely care what the apostles and Jesus said... I just do not think the KJV translators cared one iota about getting to the truth when they did their translation.. they were more concerned with translating things to remain in harmony with the doctrine already taught in the anglican church.

And I personally feel the KJV is by far the best translation.  So we have differing oppinions.  do me a favor.  Cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it.

Quote from: MegaJedi on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 17:15:03
And I personally feel the KJV is by far the best translation.  So we have differing oppinions.  do me a favor.  Cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it.

How many different translations have you read through so far? Just curious. Myself only 3, planning on getting a copy of a Hebrew thesaurus as soon as financially able

Quote from: fanuvmxpx on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 17:41:24

Quote from: MegaJedi on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 17:15:03
And I personally feel the KJV is by far the best translation.  So we have differing oppinions.  do me a favor.  Cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it.

How many different translations have you read through so far? Just curious. Myself only 3, planning on getting a copy of a Hebrew thesaurus as soon as financially able

lets see,
KJV
NKJV
NIV
NWT,
The Catholic Bible (including the 7 extra books)
NLT
And starting my next one in Bible Gateway.com

I like to read.

Quote from: MegaJedi on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 21:31:35

Quote from: fanuvmxpx on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 17:41:24

Quote from: MegaJedi on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 17:15:03
And I personally feel the KJV is by far the best translation.  So we have differing oppinions.  do me a favor.  Cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it.

How many different translations have you read through so far? Just curious. Myself only 3, planning on getting a copy of a Hebrew thesaurus as soon as financially able

lets see,
KJV
NKJV
NIV
NWT,
The Catholic Bible (including the 7 extra books)
NLT
And starting my next one in Bible Gateway.com

I like to read.

Have you tried the amplified? I was prompted to get this version 20 years ago and have never looked back. I love it and it seems to be pretty accurate with its translation becuase it gives more than one word for the original if that word cannot be accurately translated into just one of our modern words. I would NEVER go back to anything else.

Quote from: Memphis Dwight on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 12:02:08
Can you believe so many people would try to justify mothers and wives and daughters leaving the home to work outside based upon such flimsy things? 

The problem is that the Bible doesn't say the wife must stay at home.

Quote from: HRoberson on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 22:01:14

Quote from: Memphis Dwight on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 12:02:08
Can you believe so many people would try to justify mothers and wives and daughters leaving the home to work outside based upon such flimsy things? 

The problem is that the Bible doesn't say the wife must stay at home.

Doesnt it say in Titus that the older women are to teach the younger to love their husbands and children and to be a home maker? What does this means if it isnt 'making ' a home?

Quote from: chosenone on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 22:50:58
Doesnt it say in Titus that the older women are to teach the younger to love their husbands and children and to be a home maker? What does this means if it isnt 'making ' a home?

So when women were heading to the center of town to draw water, or out in the field harvesting they weren't being home makers?

Quote from: Arkstfan on Tue Feb 10, 2009 - 07:23:40

Quote from: chosenone on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 22:50:58
Doesnt it say in Titus that the older women are to teach the younger to love their husbands and children and to be a home maker? What does this means if it isnt 'making ' a home?

So when women were heading to the center of town to draw water, or out in the field harvesting they weren't being home makers?

The modern day version of this such as shopping, running the kids aorund etc etc is all part of being a home maker isnt it? I am only saying what the Bibie says and that is being a 'home maker'. What people want to think a home maker does it up to them.

Quote from: fanuvmxpx on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 17:41:24

Quote from: MegaJedi on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 17:15:03
And I personally feel the KJV is by far the best translation.  So we have differing oppinions.  do me a favor.  Cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it.

How many different translations have you read through so far? Just curious. Myself only 3, planning on getting a copy of a Hebrew thesaurus as soon as financially able

And reading that verson will not be helpful either.  Actually a waste of time.  We way too often rely on our own abilities to read and study.

I myself , like "mega - j " like my KJV over any other version/translation.  But I only look at it as a tool.  I do not rely solely upon it and do not take it in its exactness.   I allow God to work in me through the comforter , to help me see whith spiritual eyes, and not with my own eyes.

The point of the lesson is not whether or not the woman was a career woman. The point was that she was being a helpmate to her husband, and was interested in this and helping her family.

Quote from: Will Lee on Tue Feb 10, 2009 - 10:01:48
The point of the lesson is not whether or not the woman was a career woman. The point was that she was being a helpmate to her husband, and was interested in this and helping her family.

Yeap and putting the kids on the school bus then going shopping with the neighbor's wife and going out to lunch on the husbands dime isn't helping much.

Quote from: Mystery Man on Tue Feb 10, 2009 - 07:40:53

Quote from: fanuvmxpx on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 17:41:24

Quote from: MegaJedi on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 17:15:03
And I personally feel the KJV is by far the best translation.  So we have differing oppinions.  do me a favor.  Cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it.

How many different translations have you read through so far? Just curious. Myself only 3, planning on getting a copy of a Hebrew thesaurus as soon as financially able

And reading that verson will not be helpful either.  Actually a waste of time.  We way too often rely on our own abilities to read and study.

I myself , like "mega - j " like my KJV over any other version/translation.  But I only look at it as a tool.  I do not rely solely upon it and do not take it in its exactness.   I allow God to work in me through the comforter , to help me see whith spiritual eyes, and not with my own eyes.

I think when you look at a translation you also need to look at the 'fruit' of that translation.  I think when you look at it from a historical and present perspective, the KJV has done more damage to Christendom then the pope ever did.

Quote from: Tantor on Tue Feb 10, 2009 - 11:24:02

Quote from: Mystery Man on Tue Feb 10, 2009 - 07:40:53

Quote from: fanuvmxpx on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 17:41:24

Quote from: MegaJedi on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 17:15:03
And I personally feel the KJV is by far the best translation.  So we have differing oppinions.  do me a favor.  Cry me a river, build a bridge and get over it.

How many different translations have you read through so far? Just curious. Myself only 3, planning on getting a copy of a Hebrew thesaurus as soon as financially able

And reading that verson will not be helpful either.  Actually a waste of time.  We way too often rely on our own abilities to read and study.

I myself , like "mega - j " like my KJV over any other version/translation.  But I only look at it as a tool.  I do not rely solely upon it and do not take it in its exactness.   I allow God to work in me through the comforter , to help me see whith spiritual eyes, and not with my own eyes.

I think when you look at a translation you also need to look at the 'fruit' of that translation.  I think when you look at it from a historical and present perspective, the KJV has done more damage to Christendom then the pope ever did.

Is it really the KJV that has done the damage, or maybe just the people reading it.

Quote from: Tantor on Tue Feb 10, 2009 - 11:22:59

Quote from: Will Lee on Tue Feb 10, 2009 - 10:01:48
The point of the lesson is not whether or not the woman was a career woman. The point was that she was being a helpmate to her husband, and was interested in this and helping her family.

Yeap and putting the kids on the school bus then going shopping with the neighbor's wife and going out to lunch on the husbands dime isn't helping much.

Who does that then?

Quote from: chosenone on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 22:50:58

Quote from: HRoberson on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 22:01:14

Quote from: Memphis Dwight on Mon Feb 09, 2009 - 12:02:08
Can you believe so many people would try to justify mothers and wives and daughters leaving the home to work outside based upon such flimsy things? 

The problem is that the Bible doesn't say the wife must stay at home.

Doesnt it say in Titus that the older women are to teach the younger to love their husbands and children and to be a home maker? What does this means if it isnt 'making ' a home?

Being a "home maker" doesn't necessarily mean "stay at home", it means making your home priority number 1. When, and if the home suffers for a career it is bad, and when, and if the home suffers because of lack it is bad.

I still think that it is between couples that this is determined, and not by doctrine, and postulating over translations of the Bible, which is never helpful.

Quote from: chosenone on Tue Feb 10, 2009 - 11:35:58

Quote from: Tantor on Tue Feb 10, 2009 - 11:22:59

Quote from: Will Lee on Tue Feb 10, 2009 - 10:01:48
The point of the lesson is not whether or not the woman was a career woman. The point was that she was being a helpmate to her husband, and was interested in this and helping her family.

Yeap and putting the kids on the school bus then going shopping with the neighbor's wife and going out to lunch on the husbands dime isn't helping much.

Who does that then?

I watched my mom do that.. all my aunts do that.. it's the norm in the church where I grew up... the husband was to make the money and the wife was to spend and enjoy it.

Quote from: Tantor on Tue Feb 10, 2009 - 12:04:40
I watched my mom do that.. all my aunts do that.. it's the norm in the church where I grew up... the husband was to make the money and the wife was to spend and enjoy it.

I would attribute that more to "Americanism", or an elitist mentality, where wants/desires become needs. And not providing these "needs" makes you a bad husband.

Obviously not everyone does this...but I hear you Tantor...I've witnessed it myself. We have another poor American mentality that keeps our families in poverty...its the "your 18 and your on your own" rule...How much debt do our children accumulate when we say "fend for yourself" in a minimum wage/capitalistic society? Just something to ponder.