Christian Forums

QuoteStudies show only 14% of American adults believe in it, while 80% of adults in other western nations in Europe believe in it.   The study found that individuals with anti-abortion, pro-life views associated with the conservative wing of the Republican Party were significantly more likely to reject evolution than people with pro-choice views.  Third, the study found that adults with some understanding of genetics are more likely to have a positive attitude toward evolution.  Fewer than half of American adults can provide a minimal definition of DNA.

By the way, you can find this info on the National Geographic website by this link. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/08/060810-evolution.html

Really, Ill just say some people take the bible too seriously and literally in this country, U.S.  I see the Old Testaments as more of a guideline.  I value some of the messages from it though, but not all.  And I accept Jesus as my personal savior, and love him.  I see him as a good role model.

Do I believe we came from monkeys? No.  We might have came from the same ancestors though.  But for those saying, "the bible doesn't say that!" is a ridiculous statement in this day and age.  There's alot of things the bible don't mention, like dinosaurs, and questionable things it does mention.  Some say the earth was created in literally 6 days because the bible clearly stated it; I say that's a load of crap. Others say that those days were more like epochs, which is more beliveable.  Who knows.  But from learning alot in Biology I, and I.B. Biology which really gets very in depth with the study of DNA, I reject fundamentalist values.   

It's like the attitude of people prior to the 15th century having a notion that the world is flat, even though concrete evidence had been presented by a minority of scientists who had a dang clue.  It took centuries for this fact, which is now universally accepted, to creep into to people's common sense.  That's too long.

It took centuries for the majority of society to accept that there's no such thing as spontaneous generation, and that the concept of Geocentricity (earth is the center of the Universe and that all other objects move around it) is false.

It may sound harsh, but Creationism is stemmed from ignorance and shouldn't be taught in schools.   The religious belief that humanity, life, the earth, and the universe were created in their original form by a god.  There are so many reasons why this is strongly looked down upon in the scientific community.  I'm being real broad here, but common sense is one reason.  Dinosaurs is another, and I bet there are people who will deny they exist still because they weren't mentioned in the bible, lulz on them.  Also evidence that comes from our study of life, biology.

And if I have to accept it to be considered "Religous" then i'd rather not be it at all.  I was once forced to be "religous" by my dad.  I eventually rebelled and turned agaisnt it.

I used to be an agnostic, but after time I came to a realization.  I value faith and reason over religon.  In fact, I reject religon.  I don't see a damn positive thing about it.  Religon just screws people over, subjecting them to ignorance, judgemental behavior, hypocrisy, and prejudice.  I have no problem learning about religon and respecting it. I just wont shroud myself in that institution and conformity. 

But that's just me.  I want to know what you all feel about evolution and whatever else you feel obligated to say.

Ther are several other related threads that might give you some feeling where everyone is.

I posted a link about a world acclaimed scientist that believed God created the universe. The spectrum of creationism is very diverse. There is not at all a consensus anong creation believers. They are not monolithic in their beliefs.

This particular topic is quite prolific on this board, and all creationist are not uneducated idiots. Plus, personally I don't care what Europeans think about Americans! 

Please go to the News From Around the World Forum and go to the Ben Stein Evolitionary Controversy thread.

Quote from: Jaime on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 11:32:05
Ther are several other related threads that might give you some feeling where everyone is.

I posted a link about a world acclaimed scientist that believed God created the universe. The spectrum of creationism is very diverse. There is not at all a consensus anong creation believers. They are not monolithic in their beliefs.

This particular topic is quite prolific on this board, and all creationist are not uneducated idiots. Plus, personally I don't care what Europeans think about Americans! 

I never said creationists are idiots.  I just said that their beliefs are just WAY out there and they won't open their eyes to the facts.  I compared it with flat world theory, spontaneous generation, and geocentricity, because in the past, these beliefs were heavily regarded with christians even though more and more evidence was put out agaisnt it.  It however took centuries to debunk these theories.  Now that biology is advancing, more and more scientists are finding reasons why creationism is wrong.  It will be centuries before we can look back on it and laugh, or hopefully maybe THIS century.  It's a belief laced with lack of knowledge is all I mean.

I don't care what Europeans think of Americans either.  I never mentioned their opinions towards us either.  The short snippet of the article I posted just made a general comparison between U.S and European stance on evolution.  It isn't opinionated in the least bit, and is merely statistical data.  The article made accounts of why it is more accepted in Europe than America.  It really comes down to the number of adults subjected to creationism and fundamentalism, and refuse to accept anything else, even concrete evidence.  Basically, American society is way more conservative than European society.  Well, at least, adults.  They are less willing to accept change in their beliefs.

I'm 16, and most kids my age, or at least where i'm from believe in evolution, or a mixture of the bible and evolution.  From my understanding, in most parts of America, over the years, the science department of schools is getting more developed.  I'm in upper level I.B. Biology, comparable to A.P. biology, only I.B goes into more detail.  It's fairly new compared to A.P. programs.  So younger generation is also able to get more scientific background also.

It is well known that younger people are less conservative than older people these days.  So maybe that's why evolution is more looked down upon older folks with limited knowledge of genetics.  However, ill have to look more about what most in generation Y feels about evolution.

I would think that the study of genetics would make the probability of a grand designer even more evident.

Plus don't discount the knowledge the older farts among us have.  Science may not acknowledge a creator, but it definitely does not disprove the existence either. Just remember creationism is not necessarily what you think. A lot of folks here are pretty well educated in spite of being faithful Christians. I am a civil engineer with a geology minor with a 3.5 grade point average out of 4.0, I might add, though from a lowly and backward Texas University, Texas Tech! Flat Earth Studies was just abolished in my Junior year.

Quote from: Jaime on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 12:05:45
I would think that the study of genetics would make the probability of a grand designer even more evident.

I'm sorry, i'm not very familiar with that term.  Care to specify?

Quote from: Inspiration on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 12:08:20

Quote from: Jaime on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 12:05:45
I would think that the study of genetics would make the probability of a grand designer even more evident.

I'm sorry, i'm not very familiar with that term.  Care to specify?

Which term? Grand Designer? (ie Creator, aka God!)

ev·i·dent    (ěv'ĭ-dənt)  Pronunciation Key 
adj.   Easily seen or understood; obvious.

Quote from: Jaime on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 12:13:32

Quote from: Inspiration on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 12:08:20

Quote from: Jaime on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 12:05:45
I would think that the study of genetics would make the probability of a grand designer even more evident.

I'm sorry, i'm not very familiar with that term.  Care to specify?

Which term? Grand Designer? (ie Creator, aka God!)

I think god created life, but creationism is far fetched.  Who knows, maybe god intends for evolution to happen.

The study of genetics in no way makes creationism more evident.  In fact, it presents loads of credible facts agaisnt it.  And it takes a detailed understanding of the subject to be able to comprehend it.  Evolution is the change in the gene pool of a population over time.  Like overtime insects grow resistance to pesticides eventually.  That's a simple piece of evolution right there, and believers of creationism still say there's no such thing.  Unbelievable.

Right now we are learning about the molecular structure of DNA, and RNA which spurred my interest in evolution.

I know this.  When earth was first created, it was literally hell.  The air would not have been able to support aerobic organisms because the surface was too hot, violent earthquakes, and volcanoes was frequent, and the air in the atmosphere would poison any oxygen breathing animal.

However, life existed.  The first living things on Earth were single cell prokaryotes and they first appeared on Earth about four billion years ago.  Earth was created about 4.5 billion years ago.  People actually believe that other life forms, aerobic life forms were created during this time, which is remarkable to say the least.  Creationism is very misleading.  This is simple biology I learned in 10h grade.  Even if the epoch period was supposed to be days, it's still questionable, here's why.

In the Book Of Genesis, god was creating all the first life forms in the same enviromental conditions, while as we know from evidence, the progression occured in very different environments.  From anerobic organisms to aerobic.

If he created everything static, it's not possible certain life could have formed then.  Also gene pool changes do happen, and it has been observed.  That's why creationists mostly oppose evolution.  They say it hasn't been viewed, but they should learn the real meaning behind the word evolution, progression of life, early condtions of earth, learn about genetics, and open their eyes wider.

I'm a creationist and I have no trouble believing animals adapt to and develope resistances to pesticides and other chemicals. That is micro evolution. No creationist denies that. Macro evolution is the problem. Change and adaption IS evolution. No one denies that. Some of us just deny the huge leaps that evolutionist push in my opinion..

To me the genetic code evidenced in DNA IS the ultimte evidence of a designer of that code. The complexity of the animal world screams a designer. The truth of. Designer does not displace change and adaption.

The magnifiance of creation is only magnified by a scientific understanding. A layman ignorant of the complexities of DNA can only touch the hem of the garment of understanding our creator. As well an opthamologist has such a better understanding of the miracle of vision than a regular person. 

It's the exact same principal that allows me a civil engineer to appreciate the majesty of the bridge designer. Normal folks just are content to drive across and not appreciate what is behind the structure. The hours of thought and design. The putting it all onto a drawing that makes sense and the evidence of it's successful design in the decades of flawless performance.

The miracle of a Creator is no more unbelievable than the miracle of our salvation. It's unlikely, it's beyond logic, etc. But ironcally the same source.

Evolution is a religion unto itself.

It has a core set of beliefs.
It takes great faith to believe.
It is looked to for answers.
Heretics are cast aside and derided.
There is absolutely no physical or empirical evidence.

In Christ,
KP

I once told a man at work that it would take a lot more faith for me to believe in evolution than it does to believe in creation, and of course he disagreed with me.

Quote from: Inspiration on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 13:00:45

Quote from: Jaime on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 12:13:32

Quote from: Inspiration on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 12:08:20

Quote from: Jaime on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 12:05:45
I would think that the study of genetics would make the probability of a grand designer even more evident.

I'm sorry, i'm not very familiar with that term.  Care to specify?

Which term? Grand Designer? (ie Creator, aka God!)

I think god created life, but creationism is far fetched.  Who knows, maybe god intends for evolution to happen.

The study of genetics in no way makes creationism more evident.  In fact, it presents loads of credible facts agaisnt it.  And it takes a detailed understanding of the subject to be able to comprehend it.  Evolution is the change in the gene pool of a population over time.  Like overtime insects grow resistance to pesticides eventually.  That's a simple piece of evolution right there, and believers of creationism still say there's no such thing.  Unbelievable.

Right now we are learning about the molecular structure of DNA, and RNA which spurred my interest in evolution.

I know this.  When earth was first created, it was literally hell.  The air would not have been able to support aerobic organisms because the surface was too hot, violent earthquakes, and volcanoes was frequent, and the air in the atmosphere would poison any oxygen breathing animal.

However, life existed.  The first living things on Earth were single cell prokaryotes and they first appeared on Earth about four billion years ago.  Earth was created about 4.5 billion years ago.  People actually believe that other life forms, aerobic life forms were created during this time, which is remarkable to say the least.  Creationism is very misleading.  This is simple biology I learned in 10h grade.  Even if the epoch period was supposed to be days, it's still questionable, here's why.

In the Book Of Genesis, god was creating all the first life forms in the same enviromental conditions, while as we know from evidence, the progression occured in very different environments.  From anerobic organisms to aerobic.

If he created everything static, it's not possible certain life could have formed then.  Also gene pool changes do happen, and it has been observed.  That's why creationists mostly oppose evolution.  They say it hasn't been viewed, but they should learn the real meaning behind the word evolution, progression of life, early condtions of earth, learn about genetics, and open their eyes wider.

Again I say evolution is a religion.

There are less facts for evilution then there are for Creation.

Quote from: MegaJedi on Sun Feb 15, 2009 - 11:03:55

Quote from: Inspiration on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 13:00:45

Quote from: Jaime on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 12:13:32

Quote from: Inspiration on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 12:08:20

Quote from: Jaime on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 12:05:45
I would think that the study of genetics would make the probability of a grand designer even more evident.

I'm sorry, i'm not very familiar with that term.  Care to specify?

Which term? Grand Designer? (ie Creator, aka God!)

I think god created life, but creationism is far fetched.  Who knows, maybe god intends for evolution to happen.

The study of genetics in no way makes creationism more evident.  In fact, it presents loads of credible facts agaisnt it.  And it takes a detailed understanding of the subject to be able to comprehend it.  Evolution is the change in the gene pool of a population over time.  Like overtime insects grow resistance to pesticides eventually.  That's a simple piece of evolution right there, and believers of creationism still say there's no such thing.  Unbelievable.

Right now we are learning about the molecular structure of DNA, and RNA which spurred my interest in evolution.

I know this.  When earth was first created, it was literally hell.  The air would not have been able to support aerobic organisms because the surface was too hot, violent earthquakes, and volcanoes was frequent, and the air in the atmosphere would poison any oxygen breathing animal.

However, life existed.  The first living things on Earth were single cell prokaryotes and they first appeared on Earth about four billion years ago.  Earth was created about 4.5 billion years ago.  People actually believe that other life forms, aerobic life forms were created during this time, which is remarkable to say the least.  Creationism is very misleading.  This is simple biology I learned in 10h grade.  Even if the epoch period was supposed to be days, it's still questionable, here's why.

In the Book Of Genesis, god was creating all the first life forms in the same enviromental conditions, while as we know from evidence, the progression occured in very different environments.  From anerobic organisms to aerobic.

If he created everything static, it's not possible certain life could have formed then.  Also gene pool changes do happen, and it has been observed.  That's why creationists mostly oppose evolution.  They say it hasn't been viewed, but they should learn the real meaning behind the word evolution, progression of life, early condtions of earth, learn about genetics, and open their eyes wider.

Again I say evolution is a religion.

There are less facts for evilution then there are for Creation.

Evolution is not a dang religon...and neither is creationism.  Creationism takes more faith to believe in anyways. 

And please, if you imply there are more facts for Creation, name some.  And explain exactly why they disaprove Evolution evidence.  And don' just pull a bunch of quotes from the Old Testaments.

Some Thoughts on the Faith
Required to Believe in Evolution

I don't know the author from Adam, but I thought he had some intriguing thoughts on the subject.

Quote from: Inspiration on Sun Feb 15, 2009 - 15:05:38

Quote from: MegaJedi on Sun Feb 15, 2009 - 11:03:55

Quote from: Inspiration on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 13:00:45

Quote from: Jaime on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 12:13:32

Quote from: Inspiration on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 12:08:20

Quote from: Jaime on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 12:05:45
I would think that the study of genetics would make the probability of a grand designer even more evident.

I'm sorry, i'm not very familiar with that term.  Care to specify?

Which term? Grand Designer? (ie Creator, aka God!)

I think god created life, but creationism is far fetched.  Who knows, maybe god intends for evolution to happen.

The study of genetics in no way makes creationism more evident.  In fact, it presents loads of credible facts agaisnt it.  And it takes a detailed understanding of the subject to be able to comprehend it.  Evolution is the change in the gene pool of a population over time.  Like overtime insects grow resistance to pesticides eventually.  That's a simple piece of evolution right there, and believers of creationism still say there's no such thing.  Unbelievable.

Right now we are learning about the molecular structure of DNA, and RNA which spurred my interest in evolution.

I know this.  When earth was first created, it was literally hell.  The air would not have been able to support aerobic organisms because the surface was too hot, violent earthquakes, and volcanoes was frequent, and the air in the atmosphere would poison any oxygen breathing animal.

However, life existed.  The first living things on Earth were single cell prokaryotes and they first appeared on Earth about four billion years ago.  Earth was created about 4.5 billion years ago.  People actually believe that other life forms, aerobic life forms were created during this time, which is remarkable to say the least.  Creationism is very misleading.  This is simple biology I learned in 10h grade.  Even if the epoch period was supposed to be days, it's still questionable, here's why.

In the Book Of Genesis, god was creating all the first life forms in the same enviromental conditions, while as we know from evidence, the progression occured in very different environments.  From anerobic organisms to aerobic.

If he created everything static, it's not possible certain life could have formed then.  Also gene pool changes do happen, and it has been observed.  That's why creationists mostly oppose evolution.  They say it hasn't been viewed, but they should learn the real meaning behind the word evolution, progression of life, early condtions of earth, learn about genetics, and open their eyes wider.

Again I say evolution is a religion.

There are less facts for evilution then there are for Creation.

Evolution is not a dang religon...and neither is creationism.  Creationism takes more faith to believe in anyways. 

And please, if you imply there are more facts for Creation, name some.  And explain exactly why they disaprove Evolution evidence.  And don' just pull a bunch of quotes from the Old Testaments.

http://darwinbusters.com/

http://www.halos.com/

Also watch the first part of the video "Missing Heaven Unaware"

I would also like to say I find it sad that a supposed CHRISTian does not believe the Bible.  To be the absolute word of GOD.

Now that I made my point I will no longer read this evil thread.

People think our minds can be superior enough to conquer all.......what a joke.

Quote from: Inspiration on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 10:16:18
Really, Ill just say some people take the bible too seriously and literally in this country, U.S.

It's usually the other way around....people just don't take Christianity serious enough because they like living in shame...

No rules or less rules to follow means more freedom ...and more freedom to be like others...to fit in...

QuoteThere's alot of things the bible don't mention, like dinosaurs, and questionable things it does mention.

It mentions a lot of things but we sometimes just look over it and therefore can't find the meaning.

QuoteSome say the earth was created in literally 6 days because the bible clearly stated it; I say that's a load of crap.   

So church shouldn't be every sunday then?

QuoteIt may sound harsh, but Creationism is stemmed from ignorance and shouldn't be taught in schools.   

Ignorance is trying to force your beliefs on others....our choice to believe something comes from our faith to believe in it...just like poeple said evolution takes faith....digging up rocks doesn't prove anything.

Quote
Dinosaurs is another, and I bet there are people who will deny they exist still because they weren't mentioned in the bible, lulz on them.  Also evidence that comes from our study of life, biology.

I don't recall any Christian denying dinosaurs though...

A

Quotend if I have to accept it to be considered "Religous" then i'd rather not be it at all.  I was once forced to be "religous" by my dad.  I eventually rebelled and turned agaisnt it.

You're allowed to believe whatever you want...whether it is right or wrong..it's not for us to decide...God is the one who defines that.

 

QuoteReligon just screws people over, subjecting them to ignorance, judgemental behavior, hypocrisy, and prejudice.

In Christianity people mess up because they are sinners...a concept that people in their arguments seem to forget....Because if we followed what we believe as much as Jesus Christ did..would you say the same about him?

Wow, what a mess. Only proves a little knowledge is deadly.

*sigh*....it just seems though that people into science think that's all there is...discovering things, when yet there are things out there that cannot be discovered just by us thinking.

Quote from: Bonnie on Sun Feb 15, 2009 - 19:24:26
Wow, what a mess. Only proves a little knowledge is deadly.

Agreed, lets all stay stupid.

QuoteWhat is needed is
for that event to occur twice within the reproductive lifespan of the
specific species experiencing this change. If only one animal experienced
this change, the new species would not be viable because it
would not be able to reproduce.

I got that far into mega jedi's article before crying in disgust at the authors lack of knowledge on the subject he has decided to write with such authority on.

Quote from: Inspiration on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 10:16:18

QuoteStudies show only 14% of American adults believe in it, while 80% of adults in other western nations in Europe believe in it.   The study found that individuals with anti-abortion, pro-life views associated with the conservative wing of the Republican Party were significantly more likely to reject evolution than people with pro-choice views.  Third, the study found that adults with some understanding of genetics are more likely to have a positive attitude toward evolution.  Fewer than half of American adults can provide a minimal definition of DNA.

By the way, you can find this info on the National Geographic website by this link. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/08/060810-evolution.html

Really, Ill just say some people take the bible too seriously and literally in this country, U.S.  I see the Old Testaments as more of a guideline.  I value some of the messages from it though, but not all.  And I accept Jesus as my personal savior, and love him.  I see him as a good role model.

Do I believe we came from monkeys? No.  We might have came from the same ancestors though.  But for those saying, "the bible doesn't say that!" is a ridiculous statement in this day and age.  There's alot of things the bible don't mention, like dinosaurs, and questionable things it does mention.  Some say the earth was created in literally 6 days because the bible clearly stated it; I say that's a load of crap. Others say that those days were more like epochs, which is more beliveable.  Who knows.  But from learning alot in Biology I, and I.B. Biology which really gets very in depth with the study of DNA, I reject fundamentalist values.   

It's like the attitude of people prior to the 15th century having a notion that the world is flat, even though concrete evidence had been presented by a minority of scientists who had a dang clue.  It took centuries for this fact, which is now universally accepted, to creep into to people's common sense.  That's too long.

It took centuries for the majority of society to accept that there's no such thing as spontaneous generation, and that the concept of Geocentricity (earth is the center of the Universe and that all other objects move around it) is false.

It may sound harsh, but Creationism is stemmed from ignorance and shouldn't be taught in schools.   The religious belief that humanity, life, the earth, and the universe were created in their original form by a god.  There are so many reasons why this is strongly looked down upon in the scientific community.  I'm being real broad here, but common sense is one reason.  Dinosaurs is another, and I bet there are people who will deny they exist still because they weren't mentioned in the bible, lulz on them.  Also evidence that comes from our study of life, biology.

And if I have to accept it to be considered "Religous" then i'd rather not be it at all.  I was once forced to be "religous" by my dad.  I eventually rebelled and turned agaisnt it.

I used to be an agnostic, but after time I came to a realization.  I value faith and reason over religon.  In fact, I reject religon.  I don't see a damn positive thing about it.  Religon just screws people over, subjecting them to ignorance, judgemental behavior, hypocrisy, and prejudice.  I have no problem learning about religon and respecting it. I just wont shroud myself in that institution and conformity. 

But that's just me.  I want to know what you all feel about evolution and whatever else you feel obligated to say.

I simply pray that the Heavenly Father will open your eyes to the truth of His living Word, and that the Holy Spirit will come into your life and let you see
just how important the Bible is to our lives.
Robert

Evolutionists scoff at the idea of a God creating matter out of nothing, but I would like to hear their explanation for how matter came into existence in the first place. Did it just POP into existence? If so, where did it come from in order to be here? It had to BE somewhere in order for it to suddenly appear in this universe or this dimension. If it was in another dimension, how did it get there? Matter simply does NOT just pop into existence from NOWHERE all by itself. Evolutionists can't even come up with a good explanation for how non-living matter came into existence, let alone how life started from non-living matter. It's MUCH easier to believe in an omnipotent God Who SPOKE everything into existence.

Quote from: Howdyboyalan on Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 07:26:21
Agreed, lets all stay stupid.

Nowhere in Bonnie's post did she say that.

...Evolutionists try this tactic all the time it seems....

Stop trying to twist people's words please...

Because she is indeed correct.

Evolution is a theory of biology and does not attempt to explain the creation of matter, the creation of the earth or celestial bodies and with few exceptions does not venture into the creation of life rather it deals with the diversity of life and why a rainbow trout is different from a brown trout and why it is different than a bald eagle.

Astronomy and geology deal with matter and the earth.

QuoteI simply pray that the Heavenly Father will open your eyes to the truth of His living Word, and that the Holy Spirit will come into your life and let you see
just how important the Bible is to our lives.
Robert

Listen Robert, thank you for caring about my well being and whatever but it's not like the Holy Spirit is missing from my life.  I pray, I read the bible still for guidance, and I attend church.

I never said the bible wasn't important, I'm just saying I'm not a fundamentalist, which means I don't take everything literally word for word in the Old Testaments.  There is always room to question things in the bible as it was not written by Jesus himself.  Because of this, there are about 150,000 variations of the Bible today. There are even very different accounts of how Jesus himself was born.  

It's unbelievable some people here are dismissing intellectual reasoning and questioning, condemning it to be some sort of evil.  What is this, the early middle ages?  There are some people who say everything in the bible is fake, I'm not one of them.  There are some people who say everything written in the bible should be literally regarded, I'm not one of them.  

The bible should not be looked to as a history book because it was written during a time when people had no real knowledge of scientific things, like the earth being only 4000 years old.  We know today that is wrong, but people back then believed it.  Even though that's wrong, it still doesn't mean that the moral lessons the bible teaches are wrong.  It just means that the bible does not contain the absolute knowledge of everything because it was written by humans who sometimes have no idea what the hell we're talking about.  Many people have different interpretation of the bible, which is why there are many different branches.  

I see the bible as a book to look for spiritual guidance.  We're not supposed to believe everything. And i'm not misguided; I just take a keen interest in science, and theology.  So I really don't need you to pray for my eyes to open because they are open, and because of that, i'm free to accept the truth of his world unlike those turning a blind eye to it because they will believe anything written in the bible.  That's not what faith means at all.

Quote from: MegaJedi on Sun Feb 15, 2009 - 11:03:55


http://darwinbusters.com/

http://www.halos.com/

Also watch the first part of the video "Missing Heaven Unaware"

I would also like to say I find it sad that a supposed CHRISTian does not believe the Bible.  To be the absolute word of GOD.

Now that I made my point I will no longer read this evil thread.

I don't even want to say what I thought about those crap articles you provided for me Mega Jedi.  I asked you to give me evidence of why Evolution is false and why Creationism is very much real.  All I have to say is what the hell did I just read?  All of that stuff looks like the incoherent babbling of someone who has not even attempted to educate them self on biology.  To present the least bit of an exceptional argument, you should at least have an understanding on what you're going up against.  The articles you provided failed to deliver.

I also love how you call everything, or anyone you disagree with, evil.  Chao.

Quote from: Inspiration on Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 10:16:18

QuoteStudies show only 14% of American adults believe in it, while 80% of adults in other western nations in Europe believe in it.   The study found that individuals with anti-abortion, pro-life views associated with the conservative wing of the Republican Party were significantly more likely to reject evolution than people with pro-choice views.  Third, the study found that adults with some understanding of genetics are more likely to have a positive attitude toward evolution.  Fewer than half of American adults can provide a minimal definition of DNA.

By the way, you can find this info on the National Geographic website by this link. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/08/060810-evolution.html

Really, Ill just say some people take the bible too seriously and literally in this country, U.S.  I see the Old Testaments as more of a guideline.  I value some of the messages from it though, but not all.  And I accept Jesus as my personal savior, and love him.  I see him as a good role model.

Do I believe we came from monkeys? No.  We might have came from the same ancestors though.  But for those saying, "the bible doesn't say that!" is a ridiculous statement in this day and age.  There's alot of things the bible don't mention, like dinosaurs, and questionable things it does mention.  Some say the earth was created in literally 6 days because the bible clearly stated it; I say that's a load of crap. Others say that those days were more like epochs, which is more beliveable.  Who knows.  But from learning alot in Biology I, and I.B. Biology which really gets very in depth with the study of DNA, I reject fundamentalist values.   

It's like the attitude of people prior to the 15th century having a notion that the world is flat, even though concrete evidence had been presented by a minority of scientists who had a dang clue.  It took centuries for this fact, which is now universally accepted, to creep into to people's common sense.  That's too long.

It took centuries for the majority of society to accept that there's no such thing as spontaneous generation, and that the concept of Geocentricity (earth is the center of the Universe and that all other objects move around it) is false.

It may sound harsh, but Creationism is stemmed from ignorance and shouldn't be taught in schools.   The religious belief that humanity, life, the earth, and the universe were created in their original form by a god.  There are so many reasons why this is strongly looked down upon in the scientific community.  I'm being real broad here, but common sense is one reason.  Dinosaurs is another, and I bet there are people who will deny they exist still because they weren't mentioned in the bible, lulz on them.  Also evidence that comes from our study of life, biology.

And if I have to accept it to be considered "Religous" then i'd rather not be it at all.  I was once forced to be "religous" by my dad.  I eventually rebelled and turned agaisnt it.

I used to be an agnostic, but after time I came to a realization.  I value faith and reason over religon.  In fact, I reject religon.  I don't see a damn positive thing about it.  Religon just screws people over, subjecting them to ignorance, judgemental behavior, hypocrisy, and prejudice.  I have no problem learning about religon and respecting it. I just wont shroud myself in that institution and conformity. 

But that's just me.  I want to know what you all feel about evolution and whatever else you feel obligated to say.

1. The Bible isn't only a "guide line". That means that you are willing to take the good of it (e.g. God's promises to you, the free Salvation that He is given you) but aren't willing to follow His commandments. So basically, it sounds like you take what you want from the Bible, but the stuff that you don't really want to follow, you kind of leave it there. That's not how it works, my friend, and I think that you know that 

2. If you did more research into it, you would know that the Bible DOES talk about dinosaurs (read Genesis and Job). Also, if you did your homework, you would know that DINOSAURS is a term coined in the late 1800's, thus why we do not have the specific word "dinosaur" in the Bible. Also, if you studied Greek, you would know that the word "day" in Genesis refers to a specific word that LITERALLY means a 24h-day. The reason why most people that have a "knowledge" of DNA (I say that in the complete secular point of view) is because they have been taught in SECULAR universities that PROMOTE evolution. Which probably was the case for you. You should really watch the movie "Intelligent Design: Unlocking the Keys to Life" (I believe that's the name, or something along that). It explains a lot about DNA, and not from a Christian point of view either, but from other scientists who realize how evolution doesn't make any sense!

If I were you, I would pay attention to the science in the Bible a little more. The Bible acknoledge in Genesis that blood is life. If you have really taken those "in-depth" Biology classes, you would know that Blood used to be thought of as the disease of everything (but really, those Biology classes weren't really in-depth...) People used to be bled because doctors thought that it would cure the problem. Many died.
What about the concept of germs? And about the wind? People used to think that wind had one direction. But the Bible does talk about how the wind has many paths, as we now know that the wind does not have a specific direction. And what about the stars?? And the galaxies and planets? The Bible had the answer before the scientists did.

I'm sorry to tell you, but everyone knows that evolution makes no sense. But it's the only thing that one can believe if they want to reject the fact that there IS AN ALMIGHTY GOD!

Now... I'm going to go get myself some red paint, plastic, wires, bolts, and metal... explose everything and have myself a nice cadillac! Because that's what the Big Bang is! 

Quote from: Inspiration on Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 12:11:55

QuoteI simply pray that the Heavenly Father will open your eyes to the truth of His living Word, and that the Holy Spirit will come into your life and let you see
just how important the Bible is to our lives.
Robert

I never said the bible wasn't important, I'm just saying I'm not a fundamentalist,

Neither am I (I think)

Quotewhich means I don't take everything literally word for word in the Old Testaments.

So far, so good.

QuoteThere is always room to question things in the bible as it was not written by Jesus himself.

I'm not sure that isn't a non-sequitor.

QuoteBecause of this, there are about 150,000 variations of the Bible today.

No, it is not because Jesus didn't write the Bible that there are 150,000 variations.

Quote
The bible should not be looked to as a history book

In this you are correct - to a point.

Quotebecause it was written during a time when people had no real knowledge of scientific things,

One does not require scientific knowledge to record history. Therefore, I take this also as a non-sequitor.

Quotelike the earth being only 4000 years old.  We know today that is wrong, but people back then believed it.

Actually, a lot of people today believe it. However, we don't know what folks "back then" believed. In all likelihood, they kept records not for tracking years, but for tracking lineages.

QuoteEven though that's wrong, it still doesn't mean that the moral lessons the bible teaches are wrong.

It also doesn't mean quite a few other things in Scripture are wrong.

QuoteIt just means that the bible does not contain the absolute knowledge of everything because it was written by humans who sometimes have no idea what the hell we're talking about.

I can't comment on what you may or may not know. 

However, the Bible doesn't contain all knowledge, not because it was written by humans, but because it isn't intended to contain all knowledge.

QuoteMany people have different interpretation of the bible, which is why there are many different branches.

If this is reference to Jesus' saying, he's talking about people, not groups of people.

QuoteI see the bible as a book to look for spiritual guidance.

A bit more important than this phrase implies [to me]. If the God portrayed in the Bible isn't, there really is no reason other than philosophical to read it. It does provide some very good insight to human behavior, drives, and needs, but there are tons of books out there that do that.

QuoteWe're not supposed to believe everything.

Depends on what you mean by "believe."

Quotebecause they will believe anything written in the bible.  That's not what faith means at all.

It would help me here, since you bring up a definition of faith, to know what your definition is.

Quote from: Inspiration on Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 12:29:20

I don't even want to say what I thought about those crap articles you provided for me Mega Jedi.   All I have to say is what the hell did I just read? 

Could you watch the language to make it more respectful to others please?

Quote from: Inspiration on Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 12:11:55
I see the bible as a book to look for spiritual guidance.  We're not supposed to believe everything. And i'm not misguided; I just take a keen interest in science, and theology.  So I really don't need you to pray for my eyes to open because they are open, and because of that, i'm free to accept the truth of his world unlike those turning a blind eye to it because they will believe anything written in the bible.  That's not what faith means at all.

Why start a thread to insult people?

Well you are saying that people think that the earth is 4,000 years old  That shows me that you don't have a good basis to what you are saying, as we know that the earth is around 6,000 years old, not 4 

And the reason why there are so many versions of the Bible is because of the controversy between the received texts... And concerning the Bible being written by men, if you really were into theology, you would know that the Bible is inspired by God. I really encourage you to do your homework before talking. You think you know something, but really it's ignorance. 

I would like to add the following:

If I follow you, we aren't supposed to believe everything for the Bible. That's a problem for me... because that means that I can't trust John 3:16. Or... maybe I shouldn't believe in Genesis 1:1... but then... should I trust the resurrection of Christ?? Hummm... 

Think about it.