Christian Forums

In a couple other threads in this forum the point was brought up that "Evolution" is described in Genesis... The problem is that both topics have to be understood in order to see the direct connection to oneanother...  

If you compare a basic time-line of "evolution" with the appearance of plants, animals, etc., it lines up with the way Genesis says everything came to be.    

i.e. Plants came before animals and people, etc, etc.

The thing that makes people miss the point is that the creation is described as only taking 7 literal 24-hour days in Genesis... Basically it is like a parable for how the Earth was formed... God left out the fine details since the processes involved, if written down... would probably fill the world 7,000,000,000,000 times over 1-mile deep with books covering the earth...  

If a parable is interpreted literally in every way... the whole point is missed. The interpretation then makes absolutely no sense.

Parables are used to help explain things that might be difficult to understand otherwise... yet even with parables the point can sometimes be missed as shown in the bible when Jesus would speak in parables... Even today some of those parables that Jesus spoke are still not always understood the way they were meant to be...

Another quick example of the sort of Spiritual imagery used in the Bible is in the story of Daniel... His visions involved things that had to be interpreted... if they were seen as literal... the visions were nonsense.

Just sharing some thoughts on this.  

Quote from: ItalianFlavor on Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 16:35:30
Well you are saying that people think that the earth is 4,000 years old  That shows me that you don't have a good basis to what you are saying, as we know that the earth is around 6,000 years old, not 4 

And the reason why there are so many versions of the Bible is because of the controversy between the received texts... And concerning the Bible being written by men, if you really were into theology, you would know that the Bible is inspired by God. I really encourage you to do your homework before talking. You think you know something, but really it's ignorance. 

Do you seriously believe this earth is 6000 years old, and then you call me ignorant?

Quote from: Inspiration on Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 19:22:11

Quote from: ItalianFlavor on Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 16:35:30
Well you are saying that people think that the earth is 4,000 years old  That shows me that you don't have a good basis to what you are saying, as we know that the earth is around 6,000 years old, not 4 

And the reason why there are so many versions of the Bible is because of the controversy between the received texts... And concerning the Bible being written by men, if you really were into theology, you would know that the Bible is inspired by God. I really encourage you to do your homework before talking. You think you know something, but really it's ignorance. 

Do you seriously believe this earth is 6000 years old, and then you call me ignorant?

Hum... I really don't want to start a fight. So I will say this: I really think that the earth is 6,000 years old, and if you inquire more about certain things, you'll see evidence. (Check out stuff about Mt. Helen) It really is plain ignorance.

MattChin: If you studied greek you'd understand what "day" meant in the original version.

Quote from: ItalianFlavor on Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 19:27:51

Quote from: Inspiration on Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 19:22:11

Quote from: ItalianFlavor on Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 16:35:30
Well you are saying that people think that the earth is 4,000 years old  That shows me that you don't have a good basis to what you are saying, as we know that the earth is around 6,000 years old, not 4 

And the reason why there are so many versions of the Bible is because of the controversy between the received texts... And concerning the Bible being written by men, if you really were into theology, you would know that the Bible is inspired by God. I really encourage you to do your homework before talking. You think you know something, but really it's ignorance. 

Do you seriously believe this earth is 6000 years old, and then you call me ignorant?

Hum... I really don't want to start a fight. So I will say this: I really think that the earth is 6,000 years old, and if you inquire more about certain things, you'll see evidence. (Check out stuff about Mt. Helen) It really is plain ignorance.

MattChin: If you studied greek you'd understand what "day" meant in the original version.

One more question.  Are you really serious that you believe this world is 6000 years old?  I don't want to fight at all, I just want to know.

Quote from: ItalianFlavor on Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 19:27:51

Quote from: Inspiration on Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 19:22:11

Quote from: ItalianFlavor on Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 16:35:30
Well you are saying that people think that the earth is 4,000 years old  That shows me that you don't have a good basis to what you are saying, as we know that the earth is around 6,000 years old, not 4 

And the reason why there are so many versions of the Bible is because of the controversy between the received texts... And concerning the Bible being written by men, if you really were into theology, you would know that the Bible is inspired by God. I really encourage you to do your homework before talking. You think you know something, but really it's ignorance. 

Do you seriously believe this earth is 6000 years old, and then you call me ignorant?

Hum... I really don't want to start a fight. So I will say this: I really think that the earth is 6,000 years old, and if you inquire more about certain things, you'll see evidence. (Check out stuff about Mt. Helen) It really is plain ignorance.

MattChin: If you studied greek you'd understand what "day" meant in the original version.

You know, my state fossil is a trilobite.  It went extinct 250 million years ago at the end of the Permian era during a mass extinction on earth.  But of course there was no earth back then.  You know what, thanks to your comment pointing out my ignorance, I've been enlightened, delighted, I'm spectacular.

There are no such things as dinosaurs.  It's just a scheme by the government to make us pay to see the "skeletons" of master mindedly crafted cow bones and carved sea shells in museums.

Biology is indeed a cult and I am possessed.  What can I do?  Every single day of the school week, I immerse myself in the seriously evil practices, with my seriously evil class mates.  Maybe I should protest by purposefully failing my class, and give up all hopes of becoming a Pharmacist in the future.  Ill then be able to embrace creationism with an "open" mind.

When our cult leader, the teacher asks, "what's up?" Ill tell him he's a menace to society, corrupting my faith, and that he's going bald.  Ill then rally up all my classmates and begin the revolution.  Ill boisterously chant through out the halls, "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil."

Or I can quit this forum.  C'ya all. I've wasted enough time on here, and it didn't do a damn thing in favor of my faith or guidance.  I just need time to un-shrowd myself from my ignorance.  It's not you guys, it's me.

Peace out. 

Quote from: Inspiration on Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 20:34:58
  Ill then be able to embrace creationism with an "open" mind.
Peace out. 

That's the thing about God...it requires faith to believe what he has done.

It's not an open mind you need; it's faith.

GODS BLESSINGS

http://www.lutheranscience.org/



used with permission project wittenberg.

                        Luther's Little Instruction Book
                     (The Small Catechism of Martin Luther)
                               Part Two: The Creed
                         Translated by Robert E. Smith
                                  May 22, 1994

       The Creed: The Simple Way a Father Should Present it to His Household

       I.  The First Article: On Creation

       I believe in God the Almighty Father, Creator of Heaven and Earth.

       Q. What does this mean?

       A. I believe that God created me, along with all creatures. He gave to
          me: body and soul, eyes, ears and all the other parts of my body,
          my mind and all my senses and preserves them as well. He gives me
          clothing and shoes, food and drink, house and land, wife and
          children, fields, animals and all I own. Every day He abundantly
          provides everything I need to nourish this body and life. He
          protects me against all danger, shields and defends me from all
          evil.  He does all this because of His pure, fatherly and divine
          goodness and His mercy, not because I've earned it or desrved it.
          For all of this, I must thank Him, praise Him, serve Him and obey
          Him.  Yes, this is true!

QuoteMattChin: If you studied greek you'd understand what "day" meant in the original version.

Any chance you could tell me what "day" meant in the original version of the holy bible?  I don't study Greek, only English. I don't see why I would need to know Greek since the "original" bible wasn't written in Greek.

Should everyone on Earth study Greek so that they can understand the correct meanings for words in the Bible? 

I don't think the word "day" was mis-translated in Genesis. Personally I don't care for what people say about parts of the bible being missing or mis-translated, since those who say that don't care to understand the things plainly written in the Bible. The discrepancies in translation, if any, don't alter the text enough to make it impossible to understand the intended meanings.

As I said, I view Genesis as like a parable... it is not meant to be interpreted literally in my view. i.e. I don't think God floated down from Heaven to pick up a ball of dirt to form Adam... I think God used evolution to build the human body over billions of (human years)  , starting with some dust.

It should be exciting for Christians that the greatness of God is being revealed through science and that we attain a better understanding of God's creation compared to our ancestors.

Quote from: Flying To on Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 20:52:55

Quote from: Inspiration on Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 20:34:58
  Ill then be able to embrace creationism with an "open" mind.
Peace out. 

That's the thing about God...it requires faith to believe what he has done.

It's not an open mind you need; it's faith.

Faith doesn't change what God caused to actually happen. 

QuoteHum... I really don't want to start a fight. So I will say this: I really think that the earth is 6,000 years old, and if you inquire more about certain things, you'll see evidence. (Check out stuff about Mt. Helen) It really is plain ignorance.

Yes, but on whos part.

Quote from: Flying To on Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 20:52:55

Quote from: Inspiration on Mon Feb 16, 2009 - 20:34:58
  Ill then be able to embrace creationism with an "open" mind.
Peace out. 

That's the thing about God...it requires faith to believe what he has done.

It's not an open mind you need; it's faith.

Whether God blew on some dust and that instantly created man. Or He crafted man, as a potter crafts a pot over a period of time...both require faith. I personally don't care what the answer is, because each answer points to the Father.

Quote from: _MattChin_ on Tue Feb 17, 2009 - 04:01:04

QuoteMattChin: If you studied greek you'd understand what "day" meant in the original version.

As I said, I view Genesis as like a parable... it is not meant to be interpreted literally in my view. i.e. I don't think God floated down from Heaven to pick up a ball of dirt to form Adam... I think God used evolution to build the human body over billions of (human years)  , starting with some dust.

So if Genesis is a Parable... are the Gospels parables too? See how it doesn't work that way. Also, the greek word used in Genesis for day was a literal 24h day.

I wrote that Genesis is like a parable in my view. I don't claim to know, this is just how I interpret it... and yes, I'm sure we are all aware that the Gospels contain parables..., so, to answer your question, yes, parts of the Gospel are parables... Jesus used them quite a lot. To say that the whole Gospel is a parable would be non-sense...

As described already, there are many parts of the Bible... if interpreted literally... that would produce non-sense. i.e. Daniel's vision of the beast rising up out of the ocean with the horns, etc.

It all makes no sense until interpreted.

If that vision were to be interpreted literally... you would imagine a giant monster with horns rising out of the sea just as described... yet the vision is describing nations, king/leaders, people, etc, and is using imagery to convey the message...

Revelations is full of that sort of spiritual imagery.

Quote from: ItalianFlavor on Tue Feb 17, 2009 - 19:24:04

Quote from: _MattChin_ on Tue Feb 17, 2009 - 04:01:04

QuoteMattChin: If you studied greek you'd understand what "day" meant in the original version.

As I said, I view Genesis as like a parable... it is not meant to be interpreted literally in my view. i.e. I don't think God floated down from Heaven to pick up a ball of dirt to form Adam... I think God used evolution to build the human body over billions of (human years)  , starting with some dust.

So if Genesis is a Parable... are the Gospels parables too? See how it doesn't work that way. Also, the greek word used in Genesis for day was a literal 24h day.

The language of Genesis is Hebrew not Greek.  The Hebrew word translated day is yom and carries a wide variety of meanings.  Strong's, which is fairly well accepted has the following:

yôm

yome

From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially): - age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.

So that while the meaning is usually translated as being a 24-hour day, there are many who feel that is not a hard and fast requirement and in the present case of Genesis, chapter one, is not reasonable.

Quote from: ItalianFlavor on Tue Feb 17, 2009 - 19:24:04
So if Genesis is a Parable... are the Gospels parables too? See how it doesn't work that way. Also, the greek word used in Genesis for day was a literal 24h day.

Well, if the OT was written in Greek then we'd have something to go by

According to Genesis, only one language was spoken until the Lord destroyed the Tower of Babel and created a multiplicity of tongues (Gen. 11; 1, 9). Throughout most of human history the story of the Tower of Babel has been sacrosanct, and with it, as a corollary, the belief that Hebrew was the original language of man kind. While it is true that the Bible was first written in Hebrew and that Christ spoke Aramaic--a derivative of Hebrew--linguistic scientists have been unable to find in this language any characteristics which would identify it as the prototype of the three thousand languages spoken in the world today.