Christian Forums

Quote from: OneLung on Mon Feb 23, 2009 - 21:37:32

Quote from: cwestra on Mon Feb 23, 2009 - 20:55:10

Quote from: Bonnie on Mon Feb 23, 2009 - 19:37:30
If you are sincerely seeking knowledge God will give it to you.  Human logic will never prove anything about God; for the wisdom of this world is foolishness to him.  It's all based on faith.

Faith you say?  Can I presume, then, that your belief in God is based entirely on faith?

What kind of question is that?  Everyone's belief in God is faith based. How could it possibly be based on anything else?

Really?  100% faith?

Quote from: ex cathedra on Mon Feb 23, 2009 - 22:16:26

Quote from: cwestra on Sun Feb 22, 2009 - 14:29:28
Does praying for others really work?  Take, for example, the following 2 scenarios.

1) A guy gets stranded on a deserted Island.  He was a well-liked guy who always did work in the name of God.  He is now all by himself, however, and is virtually forgotten about after many years go by.

2) Another guy is a well-known and well-liked celebrity.  He is also known as a loving person who is always doing good in the name of God.  He us constantly on TV and is watched by millions.

Both guys then get a terminal form of cancer.  The celebrity guy ends up having millions of people praying for him to recover but the lonely guy on the island has no prayers coming into God for him.  If praying for someone else is actually effective, then the only conclusion would be that the celebrity has a much higher chance of being healed than the guy on the island.  Is God, then being influenced by us?  Will the guy on the island receive less consideration from God than a celebrity who knows millions?  God loves everyone equal so he should not discriminate based on the number of prayers the person gets.  Am I missing something here?

Think of the pray Jesus taught THE LORDS PRAYER .


its the correct way to pray. "Thy will be done " Not our will.

God loves the person  on that  lonly island as much as he does
the more popular fellow.


Gods will be done in both cases.


Gods will be done because only he knows what these two individuals truly need.

God hears believers prayers if one prays or ten thousand pray .

we pray Gods will be done not our's

Yes.  I agree.

Quote from: HeRestoresMyHeart on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 06:37:43

Quote from: cwestra on Mon Feb 23, 2009 - 20:55:10Faith you say? 
Can I presume, then, that your belief in God is based entirely on faith?

Umm yea!  thats how its supposed to be, what is yours based on?

I propose that everyones faith is, and should be, based on a blend of proof and faith.

Quote from: cwestra on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 07:23:20

Quote from: HeRestoresMyHeart on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 06:37:43

Quote from: cwestra on Mon Feb 23, 2009 - 20:55:10Faith you say? 
Can I presume, then, that your belief in God is based entirely on faith?

Umm yea!  thats how its supposed to be, what is yours based on?

I propose that everyones faith is, and should be, based on a blend of proof and faith.

Perhaps yours is, however I did not believe because of proof, I believed through faith- yes I have seen proof since then but that is not why I believed nor is it why others should believe (faith is believing when you do not see proof and it is what God asks us for!

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Luke 19:40
if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out


Now if you want to see any kind of proof before you choose to believe then just look all around you at the wonderful things He created- the sky, the trees, the waters, the mountains.........  I needed no more proof to believe in my Father because I felt Him pulling at my heart even before I knew who He was!

Quote from: cwestra on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 07:20:07

Quote from: OneLung on Mon Feb 23, 2009 - 21:37:32

Quote from: cwestra on Mon Feb 23, 2009 - 20:55:10

Quote from: Bonnie on Mon Feb 23, 2009 - 19:37:30
If you are sincerely seeking knowledge God will give it to you.  Human logic will never prove anything about God; for the wisdom of this world is foolishness to him.  It's all based on faith.

Faith you say?  Can I presume, then, that your belief in God is based entirely on faith?

What kind of question is that?  Everyone's belief in God is faith based. How could it possibly be based on anything else?

Really?  100% faith?

Well, the belief in "One God" has been around for over 4000 years and makes up the belief system of about 1/3 of the worlds population today. All without any proof. So yes, it is 100% faith.

Quote from: HeRestoresMyHeart on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 07:57:16

Quote from: cwestra on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 07:23:20

Quote from: HeRestoresMyHeart on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 06:37:43

Quote from: cwestra on Mon Feb 23, 2009 - 20:55:10Faith you say? 
Can I presume, then, that your belief in God is based entirely on faith?

Umm yea!  thats how its supposed to be, what is yours based on?

I propose that everyones faith is, and should be, based on a blend of proof and faith.

Perhaps yours is, however I did not believe because of proof, I believed through faith- yes I have seen proof since then but that is not why I believed nor is it why others should believe (faith is believing when you do not see proof and it is what God asks us for!

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Luke 19:40
if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out


Now if you want to see any kind of proof before you choose to believe then just look all around you at the wonderful things He created- the sky, the trees, the waters, the mountains.........  I needed no more proof to believe in my Father because I felt Him pulling at my heart even before I knew who He was!

I am not saying there is no proof.  I do agree there are magnificent things that I can only explain by the existance of God.  My proposition is that everyone, even you, bases some portion of their belief on proof or evidence.  The existance of Jesus is evidence, as are the books in the bible.  Let me ask you this.  If someone came up to you today and said they were Jesus Christ returning to earth, would you believe that person?  I'll wait for your reply.

Quote from: cwestra on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 08:11:14

Quote from: HeRestoresMyHeart on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 07:57:16

Quote from: cwestra on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 07:23:20

Quote from: HeRestoresMyHeart on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 06:37:43

Quote from: cwestra on Mon Feb 23, 2009 - 20:55:10Faith you say? 
Can I presume, then, that your belief in God is based entirely on faith?

Umm yea!  thats how its supposed to be, what is yours based on?

I propose that everyones faith is, and should be, based on a blend of proof and faith.

Perhaps yours is, however I did not believe because of proof, I believed through faith- yes I have seen proof since then but that is not why I believed nor is it why others should believe (faith is believing when you do not see proof and it is what God asks us for!

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Luke 19:40
if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out


Now if you want to see any kind of proof before you choose to believe then just look all around you at the wonderful things He created- the sky, the trees, the waters, the mountains.........  I needed no more proof to believe in my Father because I felt Him pulling at my heart even before I knew who He was!

I am not saying there is no proof.  I do agree there are magnificent things that I can only explain by the existance of God.  My proposition is that everyone, even you, bases some portion of their belief on proof or evidence.  The existance of Jesus is evidence, as are the books in the bible.  Let me ask you this.  If someone came up to you today and said they were Jesus Christ returning to earth, would you believe that person?  I'll wait for your reply.

No I wouldn't believe them because the Word says exactly how that will happen and instructs us to not be deceived, but that has nothing to do with why I believe in God to begin with-  those things I learned after I chose to believe not before!

I also have no evidence personally of Jesus coming to the world (I have never seen Him with my eyes, although I long to with all of my heart) aside from the Bible and what I have been told- which are not really evidences of themselves (and there are plenty of others who unfortunately have seen these same things and yet do not want to believe because they do not view these things as proof)  yet I still believe and I believe because I have faith that the One who has spoken to my heart since I was a child is and will always be and if I never saw another thing happen during my life to show proof of that I would still believe!!!!!

Quote from: cwestra on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 08:11:14
I am not saying there is no proof.  I do agree there are magnificent things that I can only explain by the existance of God.  My proposition is that everyone, even you, bases some portion of their belief on proof or evidence.  The existance of Jesus is evidence, as are the books in the bible.  Let me ask you this.  If someone came up to you today and said they were Jesus Christ returning to earth, would you believe that person?  I'll wait for your reply.

No. That would require proof beyond my ability to logically dismiss. I am not one of those people who hang on every word written in the Bible as if it were some absolute truth. I understand it is highly metophoric and subjective. Some people do though, and that is their right.

Quote from: HeRestoresMyHeart on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 08:18:19

Quote from: cwestra on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 08:11:14

Quote from: HeRestoresMyHeart on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 07:57:16

Quote from: cwestra on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 07:23:20

Quote from: HeRestoresMyHeart on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 06:37:43

Quote from: cwestra on Mon Feb 23, 2009 - 20:55:10Faith you say? 
Can I presume, then, that your belief in God is based entirely on faith?

Umm yea!  thats how its supposed to be, what is yours based on?

I propose that everyones faith is, and should be, based on a blend of proof and faith.

Perhaps yours is, however I did not believe because of proof, I believed through faith- yes I have seen proof since then but that is not why I believed nor is it why others should believe (faith is believing when you do not see proof and it is what God asks us for!

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

Luke 19:40
if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out


Now if you want to see any kind of proof before you choose to believe then just look all around you at the wonderful things He created- the sky, the trees, the waters, the mountains.........  I needed no more proof to believe in my Father because I felt Him pulling at my heart even before I knew who He was!

I am not saying there is no proof.  I do agree there are magnificent things that I can only explain by the existance of God.  My proposition is that everyone, even you, bases some portion of their belief on proof or evidence.  The existance of Jesus is evidence, as are the books in the bible.  Let me ask you this.  If someone came up to you today and said they were Jesus Christ returning to earth, would you believe that person?  I'll wait for your reply.

No I wouldn't believe them because the Word says exactly how that will happen and instructs us to not be deceived, but that has nothing to do with why I believe in God to begin with-  those things I learned after I chose to believe not before!

I also have no evidence personally of Jesus coming to the world (I have never seen Him with my eyes, although I long to with all of my heart) aside from the Bible and what I have been told- which are not really evidences of themselves (and there are plenty of others who unfortunately have seen these same things and yet do not want to believe because they do not view these things as proof)  yet I still believe and I believe because I have faith that the One who has spoken to my heart since I was a child is and will always be and if I never saw another thing happen during my life to show proof of that I would still believe!!!!!

I am no biblical expert, but I do understand that someday there will be a "second coming".  What does the bible say will happen during this event?

Quote from: cwestra on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 08:49:22
I am no biblical expert, but I do understand that someday there will be a "second coming".  What does the bible say will happen during this event?

Matthew 24:29-31
29) "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.  30) "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see [58]the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. 31) "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.


Read the entire chapter of Matthew 24 as it contains the most details as to what is to come!

just heard a song which can be applicable I think to this thread called  "Sometimes Miracles Hide"  by Bruce Carrolll!

http://www.allthelyrics.com/lyrics/bruce_carroll/sometimes_miracles_hide-lyrics-30736.html

Does prayer "work?" Depends on what you mean by "work."

Does prayer influence God? Yes.

Does prayer confine or compel God? No.

The scenarios in the OP are irrelevant to a large degree because they assume that dying from cancer is a great tragedy; something that a loving God would always want to prevent.

Such is not the case.

Conversely, they assume that staying alive is the preferred course of action and that if I don't have anyone praying for me, then I lose.

Again, the assumption is flawed. Dying isn't the worst thing that could happen to you, and in many cases is a good thing.

 

Quote from: HRoberson on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 21:41:52
Does prayer "work?" Depends on what you mean by "work."

Does prayer influence God? Yes.

Does prayer confine or compel God? No.

The scenarios in the OP are irrelevant to a large degree because they assume that dying from cancer is a great tragedy; something that a loving God would always want to prevent.

Such is not the case.

Conversely, they assume that staying alive is the preferred course of action and that if I don't have anyone praying for me, then I lose.

Again, the assumption is flawed. Dying isn't the worst thing that could happen to you, and in many cases is a good thing.

I must disagree with your statement that the scenarios are irrelavent.  I am not stating at all whether dying is tragic or not, simply that the number of people praying for them does not make a difference.  The thing being prayed for is what is irrelavent.  Let's say then that they are all praying for their death instead.

I am interested in your elaboration on your belief that praying does influence God, though.

Quote from: cwestra on Sat Feb 28, 2009 - 16:57:11

Quote from: HRoberson on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 21:41:52
Does prayer "work?" Depends on what you mean by "work."

Does prayer influence God? Yes.

Does prayer confine or compel God? No.

The scenarios in the OP are irrelevant to a large degree because they assume that dying from cancer is a great tragedy; something that a loving God would always want to prevent.

Such is not the case.

Conversely, they assume that staying alive is the preferred course of action and that if I don't have anyone praying for me, then I lose.

Again, the assumption is flawed. Dying isn't the worst thing that could happen to you, and in many cases is a good thing.

I must disagree with your statement that the scenarios are irrelavent.  I am not stating at all whether dying is tragic or not, simply that the number of people praying for them does not make a difference.  The thing being prayed for is what is irrelavent.  Let's say then that they are all praying for their death instead.

I am interested in your elaboration on your belief that praying does influence God, though.

You're allowed to disagree.

People praying may or may not make a difference - we don't know which in any given situation. The problem, and the reason your situations are irrelevant to the question is that we never know what God knows. We make a lot of assumptions which may or may not be true, and it is possible to set up logical conundrums to stump folks - "If God is all powerful, could he make a rock too heavy for him to pick up?"

It does not matter what the situation is. We pray and ask God for what we would like to see happen. God makes the final decision based on what He wants to have happen. We might disagree with it, but He's God.

God says our prayers influence Him, and we have evidence that they do. What more elaboration would you like?

Quote from: cwestra on Sun Feb 22, 2009 - 14:29:28
Does praying for others really work?  Take, for example, the following 2 scenarios.

1) A guy gets stranded on a deserted Island.  He was a well-liked guy who always did work in the name of God.  He is now all by himself, however, and is virtually forgotten about after many years go by.

2) Another guy is a well-known and well-liked celebrity.  He is also known as a loving person who is always doing good in the name of God.  He us constantly on TV and is watched by millions.

Both guys then get a terminal form of cancer.  The celebrity guy ends up having millions of people praying for him to recover but the lonely guy on the island has no prayers coming into God for him.  If praying for someone else is actually effective, then the only conclusion would be that the celebrity has a much higher chance of being healed than the guy on the island.  Is God, then being influenced by us?  Will the guy on the island receive less consideration from God than a celebrity who knows millions?  God loves everyone equal so he should not discriminate based on the number of prayers the person gets.  Am I missing something here?

As you said two people are both true child of God? Then God is in-charge of them. Our God is a God of love and compassion, perfect in justice and i dont think that He shows discrimination, however if He listen abd bless the other and the other not so what it is to us? He can do as He pleases; we are just created beings. Yes sometimes we feel things are really unfair like the rich and the poor, the healthy and the sick or the good looking and ugly etc. can we do something about it? I think no. Because the final say is with the Lord.

Quote from: jessbuds on Sun Mar 01, 2009 - 07:24:47

Quote from: cwestra on Sun Feb 22, 2009 - 14:29:28
Does praying for others really work?  Take, for example, the following 2 scenarios.

1) A guy gets stranded on a deserted Island.  He was a well-liked guy who always did work in the name of God.  He is now all by himself, however, and is virtually forgotten about after many years go by.

2) Another guy is a well-known and well-liked celebrity.  He is also known as a loving person who is always doing good in the name of God.  He us constantly on TV and is watched by millions.

Both guys then get a terminal form of cancer.  The celebrity guy ends up having millions of people praying for him to recover but the lonely guy on the island has no prayers coming into God for him.  If praying for someone else is actually effective, then the only conclusion would be that the celebrity has a much higher chance of being healed than the guy on the island.  Is God, then being influenced by us?  Will the guy on the island receive less consideration from God than a celebrity who knows millions?  God loves everyone equal so he should not discriminate based on the number of prayers the person gets.  Am I missing something here?

As you said two people are both true child of God? Then God is in-charge of them. Our God is a God of love and compassion, perfect in justice and i dont think that He shows discrimination, however if He listen abd bless the other and the other not so what it is to us? He can do as He pleases; we are just created beings. Yes sometimes we feel things are really unfair like the rich and the poor, the healthy and the sick or the good looking and ugly etc. can we do something about it? I think no. Because the final say is with the Lord.

Jessbuds, your post reminded me of these Scriptures ~

Isaiah 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

JOB 38
1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?

Quote from: HRoberson on Sat Feb 28, 2009 - 18:33:42

Quote from: cwestra on Sat Feb 28, 2009 - 16:57:11

Quote from: HRoberson on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 21:41:52
Does prayer "work?" Depends on what you mean by "work."

Does prayer influence God? Yes.

Does prayer confine or compel God? No.

The scenarios in the OP are irrelevant to a large degree because they assume that dying from cancer is a great tragedy; something that a loving God would always want to prevent.

Such is not the case.

Conversely, they assume that staying alive is the preferred course of action and that if I don't have anyone praying for me, then I lose.

Again, the assumption is flawed. Dying isn't the worst thing that could happen to you, and in many cases is a good thing.

I must disagree with your statement that the scenarios are irrelavent.  I am not stating at all whether dying is tragic or not, simply that the number of people praying for them does not make a difference.  The thing being prayed for is what is irrelavent.  Let's say then that they are all praying for their death instead.

I am interested in your elaboration on your belief that praying does influence God, though.

You're allowed to disagree.

People praying may or may not make a difference - we don't know which in any given situation. The problem, and the reason your situations are irrelevant to the question is that we never know what God knows. We make a lot of assumptions which may or may not be true, and it is possible to set up logical conundrums to stump folks - "If God is all powerful, could he make a rock too heavy for him to pick up?"

It does not matter what the situation is. We pray and ask God for what we would like to see happen. God makes the final decision based on what He wants to have happen. We might disagree with it, but He's God.

God says our prayers influence Him, and we have evidence that they do. What more elaboration would you like?

I am interested in where we are instructed that our prayers do, in fact, influence Him.  I presume it is in the bible.  What location have you found that refer to this?  Thanks.

James 5:16

Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

Ephesians 6:18
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.

Psalms 102:17
He will respond to the prayer of the destitute;
he will not despise their plea

Proverbs 15:29
The LORD is far from the wicked
but he hears the prayer of the righteous

Matthew 21:12
If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

Quote from: cwestra on Sun Mar 01, 2009 - 17:59:34

Quote from: HRoberson on Sat Feb 28, 2009 - 18:33:42

Quote from: cwestra on Sat Feb 28, 2009 - 16:57:11

Quote from: HRoberson on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 21:41:52
Does prayer "work?" Depends on what you mean by "work."

Does prayer influence God? Yes.

Does prayer confine or compel God? No.

The scenarios in the OP are irrelevant to a large degree because they assume that dying from cancer is a great tragedy; something that a loving God would always want to prevent.

Such is not the case.

Conversely, they assume that staying alive is the preferred course of action and that if I don't have anyone praying for me, then I lose.

Again, the assumption is flawed. Dying isn't the worst thing that could happen to you, and in many cases is a good thing.

I must disagree with your statement that the scenarios are irrelavent.  I am not stating at all whether dying is tragic or not, simply that the number of people praying for them does not make a difference.  The thing being prayed for is what is irrelavent.  Let's say then that they are all praying for their death instead.

I am interested in your elaboration on your belief that praying does influence God, though.

You're allowed to disagree.

People praying may or may not make a difference - we don't know which in any given situation. The problem, and the reason your situations are irrelevant to the question is that we never know what God knows. We make a lot of assumptions which may or may not be true, and it is possible to set up logical conundrums to stump folks - "If God is all powerful, could he make a rock too heavy for him to pick up?"

It does not matter what the situation is. We pray and ask God for what we would like to see happen. God makes the final decision based on what He wants to have happen. We might disagree with it, but He's God.

God says our prayers influence Him, and we have evidence that they do. What more elaboration would you like?

I am interested in where we are instructed that our prayers do, in fact, influence Him.  I presume it is in the bible.  What location have you found that refer to this?  Thanks.

Quote"Ask, and it shall be given to you; seek, and you will find."

Quote"The Lord does not hear the prayers of sinners."

(the presumption being that He does hear the righteous)

Quote"And shall not God avenge his elect, that cry to him day and night, and yet he is longsuffering over them?"

Quote"And Cornelius said, Four days ago, until this hour, I was keeping the ninth hour of prayer in my house; and behold, a man stood before me in bright apparel, and saith, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God."

Quote"with all prayer and supplication praying at all seasons in the Spirit, and watching thereunto in all perseverance and supplication for all the saints, and on my behalf, that utterance may be given unto me in opening my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak."

Quote"In nothing be anxious; but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall guard your hearts and your thoughts in Christ Jesus."

Quote"Continue stedfastly in prayer, watching therein with thanksgiving; withal praying for us also, that God may open unto us a door for the word, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds; that I may make it manifest, as I ought to speak..."

Quote"Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him. Confess therefore your sins one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The supplication of a righteous man availeth much in its working. Elijah was a man of like passions with us, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain; and it rained not on the earth for three years and six months. And he prayed again; and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit."

Dear cwestra, in praying for someone we are reaching to God in fellowship with Him as to His will being done. Even praying for oneself does not always produce the desired results as with the Apostle Paul praying three times to have the thorn in his flesh removed from him, because it was God's will that it remain.

2 Corinthians 12:7-9

7 - - - there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
8  For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
9  And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. 

God does give gifts of healing to the sick. Are all healed, or does God take some unto Himself regardless of our prayers? In praying for someone, are we reaching out in love toward them? Of course, but let us always be mindful that it is God that accomplishes anything done and gets the glory; not us.

We are told in James 5:16: Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man (Who are the righteous? All in Christ) availeth much. Does our prayers move God to act upon certain things? Yes according to His will.

Even Jesus prayed for God's will in considering His own death. Luke 22:42  Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. Many fail to read the whole story in scripture concerning prayer. 1 John 5:14. And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask anything ACCORDING TO HIS WILL, he heareth us.

Shall we do things anything of our own thinking? Elijah didn't. The things he did and prayed for were told him of the Lord to pray for.

1 Kings 18:24  And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.
 
1 Kings 18:36  And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.

In Jesus' name - larry2