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I'm waiting for someone to tell me that in the original Greek, "is" doesn't mean what we think it means.

love,

sopranette

Quote from: sopranette on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 15:57:18
I'm waiting for someone to tell me that in the original Greek, "is" doesn't mean what we think it means.

love,

sopranette

I'm sure that you won't be disappointed, that is BOUND to happen eventually.  Keep the faith.

Quote from: kensington on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:49:40

Quote from: Mystery Man on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:43:36

Quote from: kensington on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:13:10

Quote from: Mystery Man on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:07:52

Quote from: fanuvmxpx on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:02:00

Quote from: Mystery Man on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:00:48
Well it is obvious that you are unwilling to look at this from a logical point of view.

King David didn't murder, so he can be forgiven.  But because it is impossible for a murdered person to forgive, it is impossible for forgiveness.   And I John 3:15 still speaks volumes of the truth.

Your logic is destroyed by fallacy...

Either you are wrong or the Bible contradicts itself. The Word says that if you commit one sin you have committed them all. If you have stolen, you have murdered. Sin is sin. By your theology, any sin is therefore unforgivable which is contrary to the Word. So either you are wrong or the Word is wrong.

I don't see why this is so complicated. You can preach all you want about murder being unforgivable...doesn't change the Word though.

Also, it is entirely possible to be forgiven by the Lord and not by man. What if you hurt someone and wanted their forgiveness but could not find them? You've repented to the Lord but are still un-forgiven by man

fan, where are you getting this false information from ?  If you commit one sin, then you commit all sins, then you just committed the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit.  Your beliefs are not logical !

The word says, if you break one commandment or you break them all, you are guilty of the LAW...  sin is sin... except for the one GOD set aside as being the ONE that will not be forgiven.  You can't change that, wish it away, pout it gone or try to logic it out of existance...

You twist the word...  And not very creatively either.

Reading the Word and properly understanding it are two totally different things.   I noticed you put your own spin on the interpretation.  Which you now end up with private interpretation.

This is the will of God - Numbers 35:31 -- If King David was a murderer, God would have no choice but to have His own Word fuflilled !

James 2:10 says this -- "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all" -- No one has ever kept the whole law.

Now lets read context - verse 11 - "For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet, thou kill , thou art become a transgressor of the law"  <  Killing, which is murder, makes one guilty of all the law.  There is no other sin other than murder which transgresses the whole law !

Now lets back up a couple of verses - James 2:8 - "If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well"

Now... lets gag me with a spoon because you are not my teacher.  Not today not ever.   I did not put a spin on anything... I said it as it is written, and Herestoresmyheart posted the EXACT Scripture that says EXACTLY what I said.  

You said that the book of James is saying that if you commit one you are guilty of the whole law, then you said except for the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.  Which btw the book of James makes no such mention !

Quote from: HeRestoresMyHeart on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:49:40

Quote from: Mystery Man on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:43:36There is no other sin other than murder which transgresses the whole law !

MM that is a blatent twist of scripture as that verse (James 2:10) does not say that at all not even a little bit!!!  What is says is that if you break one law (regardless of what it is) you are guilty of breaking them all and in regards to murder it says:

verse 11
”If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker."

it is explaining that just because you don't do one sin, if you do another you are still guilty!

If you are a respector of persons you are guilty of sin.  This is what the book of James chapter 2 is telling us - Context !

If you take a rich man and honor him more than you do a poor man , you sin, because of being a respector of persons.  God is no respector of persons, and we are not suppose to be either.  Then chapter 2 gives us an example.  Sin is sin, but one sin does not make you a sinner of another sin that you did not commit !  That is ludicrous.

Quote from: HeRestoresMyHeart on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:56:51

Quote from: Mystery Man on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:46:49

Quote from: HeRestoresMyHeart on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:36:25
Mark 3:28
28I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them.
29But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.

Quote from: Mystery Man on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 16:24:14

Quote from: HeRestoresMyHeart on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:49:40

Quote from: Mystery Man on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:43:36There is no other sin other than murder which transgresses the whole law !

MM that is a blatent twist of scripture as that verse (James 2:10) does not say that at all not even a little bit!!!  What is says is that if you break one law (regardless of what it is) you are guilty of breaking them all and in regards to murder it says:

verse 11
”If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker."

it is explaining that just because you don't do one sin, if you do another you are still guilty!

If you are a respector of persons you are guilty of sin.  This is what the book of James chapter 2 is telling us - Context !

If you take a rich man and honor him more than you do a poor man , you sin, because of being a respector of persons.  God is no respector of persons, and we are not suppose to be either.  Then chapter 2 gives us an example.  Sin is sin, but one sin does not make you a sinner of another sin that you did not commit !  That is ludicrous.

You know, you have some nerve telling others "CONTEXT"... when half the time we can't even tell if you even have a BIBLE to use.  You twist and contrive the word to say what you want and then tell us... "Context"...  to that I say... Hypocrite  ! ! ! !

Quote from: Mystery Man on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 16:24:14

Quote from: HeRestoresMyHeart on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:49:40

Quote from: Mystery Man on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:43:36There is no other sin other than murder which transgresses the whole law !

MM that is a blatent twist of scripture as that verse (James 2:10) does not say that at all not even a little bit!!!  What is says is that if you break one law (regardless of what it is) you are guilty of breaking them all and in regards to murder it says:

verse 11

Quote from: Mystery Man on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 16:28:15

Quote from: HeRestoresMyHeart on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:56:51

Quote from: Mystery Man on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:46:49

Quote from: HeRestoresMyHeart on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:36:25
Mark 3:28
28I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them.
29But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.

Quote from: HeRestoresMyHeart on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 16:46:26

Quote from: Mystery Man on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 16:24:14

Quote from: HeRestoresMyHeart on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:49:40

Quote from: Mystery Man on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 14:43:36There is no other sin other than murder which transgresses the whole law !

MM that is a blatent twist of scripture as that verse (James 2:10) does not say that at all not even a little bit!!!  What is says is that if you break one law (regardless of what it is) you are guilty of breaking them all and in regards to murder it says:

verse 11
”If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker."

it is explaining that just because you don't do one sin, if you do another you are still guilty!

If you are a respector of persons you are guilty of sin.  This is what the book of James chapter 2 is telling us - Context !

If you take a rich man and honor him more than you do a poor man , you sin, because of being a respector of persons.  God is no respector of persons, and we are not suppose to be either.  Then chapter 2 gives us an example.  Sin is sin, but one sin does not make you a sinner of another sin that you did not commit !  That is ludicrous.

Now you are mixing scripture to suit your immediate need?  1st you want to use the scripture to try and prove your claim that murder is an unforgivable sin and when your theory is shown to be false you change tactics and try to claim that the scripture isn't speaking about anything like that, but only about favoratism- you contradict yourself quite a few times in your posts and you perhaps are the only one not paying attention to what you are saying!  :juggle::

Sin is sin, even being a respector of persons is a sin.  But that does not make you a theif or an idolator !  It means that you have broken the law.  The law tells us what sin is, without the law there would be no sin.   But if you break one of the laws of the law of God, you have sinned.

But one sin does not mean that you have broken all the sins of the law ! 

The only sin that breaks all the law is murder.

Quote from: Mystery Man on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 17:13:14
Sin is sin, even being a respector of persons is a sin.  But that does not make you a theif or an idolator !  It means that you have broken the law.  The law tells us what sin is, without the law there would be no sin.   But if you break one of the laws of the law of God, you have sinned.

But one sin does not mean that you have broken all the sins of the law ! 

The only sin that breaks all the law is murder.

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.

Quote from: fanuvmxpx on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 17:15:56

Quote from: Mystery Man on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 17:13:14
Sin is sin, even being a respector of persons is a sin.  But that does not make you a theif or an idolator !  It means that you have broken the law.  The law tells us what sin is, without the law there would be no sin.   But if you break one of the laws of the law of God, you have sinned.

But one sin does not mean that you have broken all the sins of the law ! 

The only sin that breaks all the law is murder.

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.

The deceived carry the deceivers message of deception. 

The devil deceived the woman in the garden. Why do you think she "gave" to her husband  to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil ?

Quote from: fanuvmxpx on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 17:15:56

Quote from: Mystery Man on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 17:13:14
Sin is sin, even being a respector of persons is a sin.  But that does not make you a theif or an idolator !  It means that you have broken the law.  The law tells us what sin is, without the law there would be no sin.   But if you break one of the laws of the law of God, you have sinned.

But one sin does not mean that you have broken all the sins of the law ! 

The only sin that breaks all the law is murder.

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.

Amen, and with that I'm done with entertaining this whole thing any longer !

Here in John 8:42 - 44  Jesus is talking to Jews.  Jesus says that if God was your father, ye would love me.  They also wanted to kill him - verses - 37 & 40 because you seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.   Then Jesus tells them in verse 44, that you are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do.  He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in truth, because there is no truth in him.

This record backs up what I have been trying to explain .  There is no truth in a murderer and the word has no place in them.  To murder is to be a son of the devil, just like these jews were.  These were not sons of men, they were sons of the devil.  Sons of men sin, but as long as they are not sons of the devil, their sins can be forgiven.  But those whoes father is the devil is a murderer and the truth is not in them. 

I John 3:12 tells us that Cain was of that wicked one - The devil was his father.  Cain was a murderer.

All murderers fit this understanding that we see here in John chapter 8.   To claim differently, means that you have been deceived .   A murderer is of their father the devil, and there is no eternal life abiding in them.

The devil deceived the woman in the garden. Why do you think she "gave" to her husband  to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil ?

Okay... that does it  !  I get it now...  Where are the cameras  ?   Is this like candid camera... and we've all been caught ? ?

Cause ... this just cannot be real.  No one really teaches so much so far from the word of God ...  it's almost like.. Um... Um... well, I guess it's like nothing I've ever seen before.   

Mysteryman do you live in a "Ward" some where ?  Do "nice people" come twice a day to give you medicine?  Do you get to go off the floor for meals or do you get a tray ?  I know these are complicated questions... but please try to focus and answer them as best as you can.  Have you had a ceramics class lately?  I think it's really nice that nowadays you kids can have computer time too before you go to basket weaving.  Get some rest now, this has probably plum wore you out.  Peace.

Quote from: Mystery Man on Tue Feb 24, 2009 - 18:26:59
All murderers fit this understanding that we see here in John chapter 8.   To claim differently, means that you have been deceived .   A murderer is of their father the devil, and there is no eternal life abiding in them.

Well, no... not until they get saved.  But, once they repent, they are cleansed white as snow and just as saved and headed for eternity in Heaven as you and me.  They give up the lie and take on the blood of Christ for the remissions of their sins... ALL OF THEM.  Indeed.

In my discussions with you all, I have seen the inability of babes in the Word to handle the scriptures properly.  This is because you are unskilled in the scriptures, because you can only handle the milk of the Word.

This subject of murder, is too difficult for you all to handle.  I encourage each and every one of you to study the word of God more diligently.  Ask those whom you believe is stronger in the scriptures than you are, to allow them to help you see the error's of you ways.

God Bless

Quote from: Mystery Man on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 06:50:55
In my discussions with you all, I have seen the inability of babes in the Word to handle the scriptures properly.  This is because you are unskilled in the scriptures, because you can only handle the milk of the Word.

This subject of murder, is too difficult for you all to handle.  I encourage each and every one of you to study the word of God more diligently.  Ask those whom you believe is stronger in the scriptures than you are, to allow them to help you see the error's of you ways.

God Bless

  Arrogance and pride abounds. Everyone disagrees with you so you tell us that NONE of us understand the word and only YOU do of course. Could it actually be that we understand it very much more than you do?
Dont you think it is strange that all of those who have been on this topic have disagreed with you? Usually there are those on both sides of anything but here, on this topic, you stand alone. Of course you cannot see that this is becuase you are wrong. No where does it say that a murderer cannot be forgiven, there is only one unforgiveable sin, but of couse we have all said this before with ALL the verses and you ignore it every time.
Unfortunately if you are right neither Moses or David will be in heaven.
I think this is what is called banging your head against a very large brick wall.

Quote from: chosenone on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 07:00:47

Quote from: Mystery Man on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 06:50:55
In my discussions with you all, I have seen the inability of babes in the Word to handle the scriptures properly.  This is because you are unskilled in the scriptures, because you can only handle the milk of the Word.

This subject of murder, is too difficult for you all to handle.  I encourage each and every one of you to study the word of God more diligently.  Ask those whom you believe is stronger in the scriptures than you are, to allow them to help you see the error's of you ways.

God Bless

  Arrogance and pride abounds. Everyone disagrees with you so you tell us that NONE of us understand the word and only YOU do of course. Could it actually be that we understand it very much more than you do?
Dont you think it is strange that all of those who have been on this topic have disagreed with you? Usually there are those on both sides of anything but here, on this topic, you stand alone. Of course you cannot see that this is becuase you are wrong. No where does it say that a murderer cannot be forgiven, there is only one unforgiveable sin, but of couse we have all said this before with ALL the verses and you ignore it every time.
Unfortunately if you are right neither Moses or David will be in heaven.
I think this is what is called banging your head against a very large brick wall.

IF I am right, then Moses and David did not commit murder.  So your comment falls short of being logical.

Quote from: Mystery Man on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 07:06:35

Quote from: chosenone on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 07:00:47

Quote from: Mystery Man on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 06:50:55
In my discussions with you all, I have seen the inability of babes in the Word to handle the scriptures properly.  This is because you are unskilled in the scriptures, because you can only handle the milk of the Word.

This subject of murder, is too difficult for you all to handle.  I encourage each and every one of you to study the word of God more diligently.  Ask those whom you believe is stronger in the scriptures than you are, to allow them to help you see the error's of you ways.

God Bless

  Arrogance and pride abounds. Everyone disagrees with you so you tell us that NONE of us understand the word and only YOU do of course. Could it actually be that we understand it very much more than you do?
Dont you think it is strange that all of those who have been on this topic have disagreed with you? Usually there are those on both sides of anything but here, on this topic, you stand alone. Of course you cannot see that this is becuase you are wrong. No where does it say that a murderer cannot be forgiven, there is only one unforgiveable sin, but of couse we have all said this before with ALL the verses and you ignore it every time.
Unfortunately if you are right neither Moses or David will be in heaven.
I think this is what is called banging your head against a very large brick wall.

IF I am right, then Moses and David did not commit murder.  So your comment falls short of being logical.

But you are not right.  That is what everyone is trying to tell you.  One more time you have mangled the word of God. 

Quote from: chosenone on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 07:00:47

Quote from: Mystery Man on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 06:50:55
In my discussions with you all, I have seen the inability of babes in the Word to handle the scriptures properly.  This is because you are unskilled in the scriptures, because you can only handle the milk of the Word.

This subject of murder, is too difficult for you all to handle.  I encourage each and every one of you to study the word of God more diligently.  Ask those whom you believe is stronger in the scriptures than you are, to allow them to help you see the error's of you ways.

God Bless

  Arrogance and pride abounds. Everyone disagrees with you so you tell us that NONE of us understand the word and only YOU do of course. Could it actually be that we understand it very much more than you do?
Dont you think it is strange that all of those who have been on this topic have disagreed with you? Usually there are those on both sides of anything but here, on this topic, you stand alone. Of course you cannot see that this is becuase you are wrong. No where does it say that a murderer cannot be forgiven, there is only one unforgiveable sin, but of couse we have all said this before with ALL the verses and you ignore it every time.
Unfortunately if you are right neither Moses or David will be in heaven.
I think this is what is called banging your head against a very large brick wall.

Chosneone

If you feel that being a part of the majority justifies you being correct on this topic.  Then you should also remember that it was the vast majority of the Jews, that told Pilate - crucify him - crucify him.

What is being debated here?

Quote from: OneLung on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 07:46:55
What is being debated here?

Trolls.....to feed or not to feed?

love,

sopranette

Quote from: OneLung on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 07:46:55
What is being debated here?

whether murder can be forgiven or not, which of course it can as no where does the BiIble say that murder is the unforgiveable sin. There is only one unforgiveable sin and that is NOT murder.

Oh well MM you carry on living in your dream world if it makes you happy, but in this case the majority are right and you, in the minority of one, are wrong as you are going against what Jesus died for. You are saying that The death of Jesus was not enough to cover the sin of murder, whch of course it was.

The latest reports are that only 9 people died in the crash of the Turkish airline jet in Amsterdam.  Let's hope that number does not increase.

By the way it looks like the previous pages on this thread are a train wreck instead of a discussion about a plane wreck.

Quote from: spurly on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 08:35:01
The latest reports are that only 9 people died in the crash of the Turkish airline jet in Amsterdam.  Let's hope that number does not increase.

By the way it looks like the previous pages on this thread are a train wreck instead of a discussion about a plane wreck.

The OP was not about a plane crash.  It was about whether or not they knew Jesus before they died.

The women here caused this thread to crash.  Oh, and lets not forget Jimmy as well.

To die in a plane crash and to know or not to know Jesus, according to the OP, would suffer eternal punishment.

Then it expanded from there.   

Of course from time to time some of the children wanted to know - "are we there yet" ?  Then the plane crashed/ oops, I mean this thread crashed.

Quote from: spurly on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 08:35:01
The latest reports are that only 9 people died in the crash of the Turkish airline jet in Amsterdam.  Let's hope that number does not increase.

By the way it looks like the previous pages on this thread are a train wreck instead of a discussion about a plane wreck.

The discussion was about who would go to heaven (originally) when they die.

Quote from: Mystery Man on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 08:48:00

Quote from: spurly on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 08:35:01
The latest reports are that only 9 people died in the crash of the Turkish airline jet in Amsterdam.  Let's hope that number does not increase.

By the way it looks like the previous pages on this thread are a train wreck instead of a discussion about a plane wreck.

The OP was not about a plane crash.  It was about whether or not they knew Jesus before they died.

The women here caused this thread to crash.  Oh, and lets not forget Jimmy as well.

To die in a plane crash and to know or not to know Jesus, according to the OP, would suffer eternal punishment.

Then it expanded from there.  

Of course from time to time some of the children wanted to know - "are we there yet" ?  Then the plane crashed/ oops, I mean this thread crashed.

Oh so it was the WOMANS fault was it......now where have I heard that before................................

He didn't say the same thing when the men laughed him out of the baptism thread.  Was it the men's fault there, as well?

love,

sopranette

Quote from: chosenone on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 08:50:27

Quote from: Mystery Man on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 08:48:00

Quote from: spurly on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 08:35:01
The latest reports are that only 9 people died in the crash of the Turkish airline jet in Amsterdam.  Let's hope that number does not increase.

By the way it looks like the previous pages on this thread are a train wreck instead of a discussion about a plane wreck.

The OP was not about a plane crash.  It was about whether or not they knew Jesus before they died.

The women here caused this thread to crash.  Oh, and lets not forget Jimmy as well.

To die in a plane crash and to know or not to know Jesus, according to the OP, would suffer eternal punishment.

Then it expanded from there.  

Of course from time to time some of the children wanted to know - "are we there yet" ?  Then the plane crashed/ oops, I mean this thread crashed.

Oh so it was the WOMANS fault was it......now where have I heard that before................................

I thought we normally relied on Memphis Dwight for the "woman bashing" perspective. 

Quote from: chosenone on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 08:50:27

Quote from: Mystery Man on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 08:48:00

Quote from: spurly on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 08:35:01
The latest reports are that only 9 people died in the crash of the Turkish airline jet in Amsterdam.  Let's hope that number does not increase.

By the way it looks like the previous pages on this thread are a train wreck instead of a discussion about a plane wreck.

The OP was not about a plane crash.  It was about whether or not they knew Jesus before they died.

The women here caused this thread to crash.  Oh, and lets not forget Jimmy as well.

To die in a plane crash and to know or not to know Jesus, according to the OP, would suffer eternal punishment.

Then it expanded from there.  

Of course from time to time some of the children wanted to know - "are we there yet" ?  Then the plane crashed/ oops, I mean this thread crashed.

Oh so it was the WOMANS fault was it......now where have I heard that before................................

Lets not forget Jimmy.

He is a late bloomer.

Actually , it was the woman who for the most part wanted to lead this discussion down the road into the murder discussion, claiming false claims as they went along .

Makes one wonder how it is that so many women are so adamant about protecting such a false premise that murder is a forgivable sin.

Quote from: sopranette on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 08:53:19
He didn't say the same thing when the men laughed him out of the baptism thread.  Was it the men's fault there, as well?

love,

sopranette

Jimmy has a strange laugh does he not ?

Not as strange as your fairy tales.

love,

sopranette

 

Quote from: Bigdog on Thu Feb 19, 2009 - 08:27:25
...My point is, the Bible says our life is like a vapor, one minute your here, the next minute you gone. I feel sorry for anyone on that plane, who did not know Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior. They now face an eternity of pain and suffering...

IMO, Bigdog's belief shows us that it is dangerous to blindly accept the metaphoric writings of men as absolute truth.

"AGAIN...the "murderer" in I John 3:15 is the unbeliever who hates God's children.

love,

Sopranette"

The above statement , which by the way is untrue, is where this thread went astray.

However, it is not important at this time.  It is water over the bridge .

But the reason I brought this forward, is to show how easily it is to go astray with one's own private interpretation.  As did the OP who claimed that if they did not know Jesus they were going to eternal pain.

Quote from: OneLung on Wed Feb 25, 2009 - 09:09:49

Quote from: Bigdog on Thu Feb 19, 2009 - 08:27:25
...My point is, the Bible says our life is like a vapor, one minute your here, the next minute you gone. I feel sorry for anyone on that plane, who did not know Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior. They now face an eternity of pain and suffering...

IMO, Bigdog's belief shows us that it is dangerous to blindly accept the metaphoric writings of men as absolute truth.

What metaphoric writings of men are you referring to?