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> 1 - Matthew 6:7-8  And in praying use not vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.    [ 50 - hail Marries ]   [ 6 - our Fathers] Your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.
> 2 - Matthew 23:9 Do not call anyone on earth your father.
   Only one is your Father, the one in heaven
> 3 - Corinthians 8:5-6 & Deuteronomy 10:17 There are to many Gods....
> 4 -  Deuteronomy 4:16  so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman,   [Cross]
> 5 - 2 Kings 17:12  They worshiped idols, though the LORD had said, "You shall not do this."
> 6 - Matthew 5:19  Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
> 7 - Hebrews 10:26  If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

QUOTE :
Acts 10:25  And when it came to pass that Peter entered, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshiped him.
Acts 10:26  But Peter made him get up. "Stand up," he said, "I am only a man myself."
Revelation 22:8  And I John am he that heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel that showed me these things.
Revelation 22:9  But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!"
Revelation 19:10  At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
>Matthew 6:9  "This, then, is how you should pray: "`Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,  [to nobody ells only the Father]
His name is YAHWEH,   by the way.

Deuteronomy 5:8  "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. [the Cross]
Habakkuk 2:18  "Of what value is an idol, since a man has carved it? Or an image that teaches lies? For he who makes it trusts in his own creation; he makes idols that cannot speak.
Deuteronomy 18:9-12  or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who
consults the dead. [all the Saints are dead ]
John 4:23  Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
John 4:24  God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
1 Thessalonians 4:8  Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.
Isaiah 55:11 So is my word that goes out from my mouth:  It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.


   

 The operative Greek word here for "vain repetitions" is battalogeo, or babbling. That is, the heathens had a magical perception of prayer and thought the more they babbled to their gods, the more that that god would respond: I Kings 18:26: "And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered."
 
That, two verses after the warning in Matthew against "vain repetitions," Jesus gave us the "Our Father" prayer which most Protestant Christians pray with no qualms about praying "repetitively." The same command in Luke 11:2 reads: "And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father..." -- "when you pray, say..."
 
That Christ Himself prayed in repetitions. Matthew 26:44: "And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words". Mark 14:39 reads: "And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same words."
 
That the angels pray repetitiously. Revelation 4:8: "...and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come."
 
That God commanded Moses to tell the Israelites: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up." (Deuteronomy 6:4-7)
 
That the Psalms are nothing but a collection of prayers and litanies which were prayed formally in the pre-Christian synagogues and early Christian churches, are still prayed in synagogues and Catholic churches today -- and were even prayed by Christ from the Cross.

There is nothing "vain" about the Our Father, the Holy Scripture passages that comprise the Hail Mary or the Doxology that all Christians believe in.    Is it a "vain repitition to meditate on the mysteries of the Rosary such as the Annunciation, the  Agony in the Garden or the Resurrection of our Lord?  Those are the Rosary prayers.

As to calling others "father", do Protestants call their biological fathers, "father"?  Do they refer to their school teachers as "teacher"?  Of course they do!  If we are told to not call anyone on earth "Father", then are we no longer to "honor our father and mother"?   Does not St. Paul refer to our Jewish Patriarchs as "our fathers" in 1 Corinthians 10:1 and again instruct "fathers" in Colossians 3:21?  How bout' when he says, "Indeed, in Christ Jesus I became your father through the Gospel" (1 Corinthians 4:14-15).  In 1 Thessalonians 2:11, he refers to himself as the "spiritual father" of the Thessalonians.  Come on people!  God wants us to be faithful, but He also wants us to have common sense.  Our Lord in Matt. 23, if you read that entire section of Scripture, is calling on his followers to always focus on who their true Father in Heaven is.  On what it means to be dedicated to a life of Christian service.  That to serve, one must be humble and serve the least of His people as the honored guest, hence the admonition against the Pharisees for "lengthening their tassels".

As to idolotry, I can't help you there.  We Catholics do not worship idols.  
 

[

Straw man:
"You guys worship statues, and that's evil. Therefore, your religion is Satanic." (Ignores that fact that we don't worship statues)

It's either that sort of hypocrisy that's being shown above, or it's a simple matter of their not believing that Catholics don't worship plaster, wood, or marble, no matter how many Catholics tell them they don't, no matter how deeply the Catechism expresses the Church's abhorrence of idolatry. The only answer to that, I guess, is "whatever." Or is it the respect shown for sacred objects that's the problem? Catholics bow to icons and pray in front of (not to!) statues -- surely that's idolatry, eh? Nope. I don't know about you, but when the American flag comes out, my hand goes right over my heart. Am I worshipping cloth? I think not, and most Americans know the difference between respect shown for one's country through the flag and "cloth-worship." I also kiss pictures of family members but am not in love with photographs.

Exodus 25:18-22
"And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the kapporeth. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece with the kapporeth shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the kapporeth with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the kapporeth shall the faces of the cherubim be. And you shall put the kapporeth on the top of the ark; and in the ark you shall put the testimony that I shall give you. There I will meet with you, and from above the kapporeth, from between the two cherubim that are upon the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you of all that I will give you in commandment for the people of Israel."

Exodus 26:1
"Moreover you shall make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen and blue and purple and scarlet stuff; with cherubim skilfully worked shall you make them."

Exodus 29:7
Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour it upon his head, and anoint him.

Exodus 30:25-31
And thou shalt make it an oil of holy ointment, an ointment compound after the art of the apothecary: it shall be an holy anointing oil. And thou shalt anoint the tabernacle of the congregation therewith, and the ark of the testimony, And the table and all his vessels, and the candlestick and his vessels, and the altar of incense, And the altar of burnt offering with all his vessels, and the laver and his foot. And thou shalt sanctify them, that they may be most holy: whatsoever toucheth them shall be holy. And thou shalt anoint Aaron and his sons, and consecrate them, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office. And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, This shall be an holy anointing oil unto me throughout your generations.

Leviticus 2:13
And every offering of your grain offering you shall season with salt; you shall not allow the salt of the covenant of your God to be lacking from your grain offering. With all your offerings you shall offer salt.

Numbers 5:17
And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water:

Numbers 21:8
And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. [Note John 3:14 - "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up"]

Deuteronomy 6:4-8
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

1 Kings. 6:23-28
In the inner sanctuary he made two cherubim of olivewood, each ten cubits high. Five cubits was the length of one wing of the cherub, and five cubits the length of the other wing of the cherub; it was ten cubits from the tip of one wing to the tip of the other. The other cherub also measured ten cubits; both cherubim had the same measure and the same form. The height of one cherub was ten cubits, and so was that of the other cherub. He put the cherubim in the innermost part of the house; and the wings of the cherubim were spread out so that a wing of one touched the one wall, and a wing of the other cherub touched the other wall; their other wings touched each other in the middle of the house. And he overlaid the cherubim with gold.

1 Kings 6:29-30
And he carved all the walls of the house round about with carved figures of cherubims and palm trees and open flowers, within and without.

2 Kings 13:20-21
And Elisha died, and they buried him. And the bands of the Moabites invaded the land at the coming in of the year. And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.

1 Chronicles 28:18-19
And for the altar of incense refined gold by weight; and gold for the pattern of the chariot of the cherubims, that spread out their wings, and covered the ark of the covenant of the LORD. All this, said David, the LORD made me understand in writing by his hand upon me, even all the works of this pattern.

Ezekiel 9:4
And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

Ezekiel. 41:17-19
"And on all the walls round about in the inner room and the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim and palm trees, a palm tree between cherub and cherub. Every cherub had two faces: the face of a man toward the palm tree on the one side, and the face of a young lion toward the palm tree on the other side. They were carved on the whole temple round about"

It is telling that the enemies of the Church continue to use lies, that are clearly demonstrated to be so, and that they argue against them as if they were the truth.  A case in point is the last picture shown above.  It is of Mass being celebrated in a chapel.  The statue of Mary and the Christ child just happens to be above the alter.  They are concecrating the bread and wine in front of the alter.  Of course, the poster being a proven liar on other threads could care less about the facts of this.

teaching the little ones to worship images. heaven help that little child

notice the skull and bones under jesus on the cross. trademark of their master

notice the satanic illuminati all seeing eye behind the priest. cats out the bag folks

notice the satanic worship illuminati symbol at top. no accident its there. its part and parcel of catholicism.

start them from infancy to worship the bejeweled golden queen of heaven

"Why do anti-Catholics have to lie in order to argue against the Holy Church?"

John 8:44

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

if this doesnt make you sick, nothing will

Quote from: desertknight on Sun Jul 19, 2009 - 13:05:16
John 8:44

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

one picture is worth a thousand words

One proven liar is all Satan needs.

baby being forced to kiss image

baby being forced to kiss image

"being forced"  

And your words condemn you again.  You know for a fact that the child is "being forced"?  Of course you don't, but when has the truth ever stood in your way of trashing and slandering your fellow Christians?

Quote from: wayne on Sun Jul 19, 2009 - 12:48:21
notice the skull and bones under jesus on the cross. trademark of their master

You know... instead of just looking at a picture, letting your mind run wild on you, or just reading someone's wild speculation on what the image means, why don't you actually try finding out from the source what those symbols mean?

http://www.pravmir.com/article_426.html

QuoteThe Skull on the "Russian" Orthodox Cross
Fr John Shandra
Nov 22, 2008, 10:00

Orthodox iconography includes symbolism to emphasize some important aspects of the depicted person or event that took place in biblical times or recently.


In the Orthodox Church, especially in Slavic countries (former Kievan Rus), the Crucifix is one of the examples of telling story through both actual occurrence and symbolism that in turn refers the viewer to something else in biblical history and gives to the story more meaning.

No doubt, Jesus was crucified on one bar cross. However, Eastern Orthodox Crosses have three bars. The middle one is the actual cross. The top bar represents the inscription that Pontius Pilate nailed to the cross above the head of Jesus Christ and the bottom one is the footstool - rest for the feet to prolong agony of the one that was crucified. Nobody would survive crucifixion if there was no footrest as hands and feet would have been torn under the heaviness of the body. However, in orthodox iconography you will see the bottom bar is at the angle to the main post with the right side pointing up and left side pointing down.
Of course, actual footrest was not in this position; however, specifically this position reminds the viewer about the story of the thieves or robbers that were crucified on both sides of Jesus Christ.  The one on the right hand side was promised place in Paradise for acknowledgement of his wrong doings, his repentance   and humility. The one on the left hand side complained, mocked Jesus and ended up in the opposite place for the deeds that he had committed in his life.

The skull that viewers can see in iconography of the orthodox crucifixion symbolically represents the skull of Adam. Some believe (although this is not a dogma of the Orthodox Church, but rather a pious tradition) that Jesus was crucified on the same place where Adam was buried. Theologically, it does make sense because in the writings of St. Paul the Apostle Jesus is called second Adam. Just as through the first Adam we all become inheritors of the fallen human nature and therefore are subject to death, through the second Adam, Who is Jesus Christ, we become inheritors of the renewed, healed human nature and granted life eternal. So, this symbolism in iconography touches some theological aspects of Christianity, as well.

Imagine that someone illiterate or does not speak the language of the parish but who at least heard the story looked at the cross... he/she would be reminded of the entire story instantly!  

By the way, Orthodox Church does recognize one-bar cross, two-bar cross and three-bar cross. Historically, orthodox came to use the three-bar cross more often because of the symbolism and much fuller expression of our belief, or as a part of our Holy Tradition that makes emphasis on the entire account rather then on a story as a separate subject.

Why don't you try and either not lie or get at least some semblence of education on the issue.

Um, wayne, are you unaware that the Eastern Orthodox churches are not the Catholic Church?   Not that I disagree with what they are doing in general, but you need to post these on the Orthodox Church forum.  You are in the Catholic forum and many of the pictures of "evidence" that you post are Orthodox church ones.

Jeez, what am I saying.  The truth does not matter to this liar.

they adorn them and bare them on their backs. the icon isnt mary or jesus. its some saint who is considered a mystic. mystic is a term meaning, satan posessed

...another lie.  The icon is a well known one of Jesus at the Last Supper.  It is also Orthodox, not Catholic.

Quote from: desertknight on Sun Jul 19, 2009 - 13:21:43
...another lie.  The icon is a well known one of Jesus at the Last Supper.  It is also Orthodox, not Catholic.

the site where i got from says its mystic. but i does look like last supper. but, what the heck. its an image

Grace Centered Forum Rules:

1.2 You will not directly call another member or his or her religious organization a "cult

Quote from: desertknight on Sun Jul 19, 2009 - 13:14:58
Why don't you try and either not lie or get at least some semblence of education on the issue.

Um, wayne, are you unaware that the Eastern Orthodox churches are not the Catholic Church?   Not that I disagree with what they are doing in general, but you need to post these on the Orthodox Church forum.  You are in the Catholic forum and many of the pictures of "evidence" that you post are Orthodox church ones.

whats the diffafrance. hey, and how do you know so much about all this?

Well, the difference wayne, is that you are posting your "evidence" against Catholics by using photos that are not Catholic!

How do I know so much about this?  Are you serious?  You are going around slandering the Christian faith of hundreds of millions of people and you don't even know the difference between the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox churches?

grace centered rule 1.3; dont slam a religion without proof. here are photos. the previous pics i posted with the all seeing illuminati eye are proof. all one has to do is search illuminati to find the satanic origins. i am attacking no individual in here. if someone feels bad its cause they are being convicted. stand by for more bad news

Grace Centered Forum Rules:

1.2 You will not directly call another member or his or her religious organization a "cult

Quote from: desertknight on Sun Jul 19, 2009 - 13:36:45
Well, the difference wayne, is that you are posting your "evidence" against Catholics by using photos that are not Catholic!

How do I know so much about this?  Are you serious?  You are going around slandering the Christian faith of hundreds of millions of people and you don't even know the difference between the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox churches?

i know the difference. the russian priests dont use deodorants

Quote from: wayne"i know the difference. the russian priests dont use deodorants

I'm preserving your quote here for the moderators.  You've been reported by me concerning several of your posts for violation of Grace Centered Forum rules which I have posted for you and yet, you continue to slander our brother Christians.

cults? hey thanks . i almost forgot to call catholicism a cult of personality. notice the inverted cross behind the pope. google ..inverted cross

Grace Centered Forum Rules:

1.2 You will not directly call another member or his or her religious organization a "cult

 Czechoslovakian Catholics worship the skull of St. Vaclav

this is what you call christian? when you report me, please spell my name rite. its      WAYNE

I did.