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Tax revenue is down over 20% for the first 6 months of 2009.  Even with no new programs and no bail out money we will add greatly to our debt.  This can only be solved by 1. increasing revenue (in lib. mind raising taxes)  and it will take much more than extra taxes on the rich.  2. Cutting spending by scaling back and cutting programs.  Any new programs (healthcare reform, cap and trade etc ) will only make things much worse.   IMO if we go forth with Obama's agenda we will have a depression that will make the last one look like a fun day in the park.


Edited by admin for title typo

I saw some of his chief advisors kind of backpedal his pledge of no tax increases on the middle class on this weekend's talk shows.

Although the WH put out an official statement today that there has been no change in the pledge, BO's constant insistence that he was given an economic situation that was "far worse than he had imagined" echoes Clinton's proclamations just before his promised "middle class tax reductions" evaporated.

Promising not to raise taxes when you're fighting two wars and working under a ridiculous deficit is irresponsible.

There are a lot of folks getting mad and voicing their frustration.  For the first time in my life I can see the real possibility of a population that could demand a new start.  A rebellion, an over throw of our government.  What would follow that frightens me.

Any such revolt would be supported only by a tiny minority.  Such things always tend to be suggested when Democrats are in power (see Timothy McVeigh.)

QuoteThere are a lot of folks getting mad and voicing their frustration.  For the first time in my life I can see the real possibility of a population that could demand a new start.  A rebellion, an over throw of our government.  What would follow that frightens me.

Texas is the ONLY state in the Union that has a constitutional right to seceed from the US.  It was negotiated as part of the settlement to make us into a state in the United States .  It is STILL in our state constitution!

With Obama in control, there has been a growing discussion on our options before he drags us down the toliet with the rest of the country.  If we did withdraw from the US, we would become a very wealthy country right off because of our huge gas and oil reserves, not to mention a thriving agricultural economy and a thriving high tech industry which includes areo-space!  We have the manufacturing facilities to turn out some of the best fighter jets in the world.  Our present governor has talked about the possibility (mostly just stirring the pot a little) but there is growing support at the grass roots level.

The next 3.5 years could be very interesting in numerous ways!

Quote from: marc on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 14:05:47
Any such revolt would be supported only by a tiny minority.  Such things always tend to be suggested when Democrats are in power (see Timothy McVeigh.)

Marc we are not talking about a fringe nut group.  These are folks that have never been involved in such protests.  If millions are out of work and the tax burden gets to great things could happen.  If a significant part of the military becomes disenfranchised it could be bad.  We are not talking about terrorists or radicals these are everyday citizens that are fed up much like those in 1776.

Quote from: marc on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 14:05:47
Any such revolt would be supported only by a tiny minority.  Such things always tend to be suggested when Democrats are in power (see Timothy McVeigh.)

I remember reading a quote similar to yours in History class.  I believe the quote was from King George.

I could say that I've heard remarks similar to yours as well, and I've already named the author.

I'm thinking about the irony of the right wing claiming patriotism and wrapping themselves in the flag all these years.  I guess they only love the country when their guys get elected.

Face it; part of living in a democracy is that the other guy wins sometimes.

It isn't about who wins or who loses, but the consequences.

And the left (and moderates) suffered through dire consequences for eight years without suggesting violent revolution or dissolving the country, to the best of my knowledge. 

Quote from: marc on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 14:05:47
Any such revolt would be supported only by a tiny minority.  Such things always tend to be suggested when Democrats are in power (see Timothy McVeigh.)

Demcrats were not in power except for Clinton.  The Speaker of the House was Newt Gingrich and the Majority leader was Bob Dole.

Your association of regular Americans as some sort of McVeigh is typical of liberals, smearing people while thinking theselves tolerant.

Marc
This is not just Republicans, it is R,D&I.  It is not just a matter of living with losing an election.  Many are in fear of losing freedom.  I hope I am wrong. I also hope Obama takes a page from Clinton's play book and abandons these massive programs that would not work in a good economy much less the one we have now.  When enough folks are out of work, enough folks are hungry and see no hope with a government there is the possibility of rebellion.  This is not what I want.  It is not just the democrats the republican ideas are not much better.  Like so many I am concerned about healthcare and the environment.  However, feeding ones family and having day to day needs comes in ahead of those issues.  PS  These are my thoughts they do not come from anything I have seen on the news or read just observations of events like I have never seen in my 61 years of life.  

All I see are Republicans and Libertarians.  Does that mean Democrats are happy with everything Obama's doing?  Of course not.  I just returned from a visit with my birth father and his wife, who campaigned for Obama, and he agreed with me that Obama's education plan is more of the same failed policy.  Not many people like the bailouts.

But if you look at the approval ratings, he's still hanging in there, even though Republicans seem to hate him.  And I only hear conservatives talking armed Revolution.  It's been more than 30 years since I heard such things from liberals.

Quote from: Johnb on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 18:23:25
...It is not just a matter of living with losing an election.  Many are in fear of losing freedom.  I hope I am wrong...

This is a very serious question:  if you're afraid of losing freedom, why are you so willing to disenfranchise those of us who voted for Obama? 

Why are people like those on this site trying to negate the election they lost?  Please don't claim it's concern for the future of the country, 'cause that's a lie.  People like those on this site are calling for armed revolution, are making ludicrous, moronic claims (the anti-Christ, for Pete's sake!), are making heroes out of traitors, are trying to delegitimize the votes of the majority of voters any way they can.

People like those on this site are willing to rob the majority of voters for their own selfishness.  Face it, that's not a love of freedom.  That's just despicable.

Quote from: marc on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 13:56:28
Promising not to raise taxes when you're fighting two wars and working under a ridiculous deficit is irresponsible.

George W. Obama keeps on keepin' on.

Quote from: marc on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 18:16:49
And the left (and moderates) suffered through dire consequences for eight years without suggesting violent revolution or dissolving the country, to the best of my knowledge. 

The conservatives suffered through it as well.  George W. Bush and George W. Obama do the same things.

Did I say I wanted a revolution?  No! In fact I said I did not.   As to fear of losing freedom supporting Obama is not a way to keep freedom.  He wants to take my freedom to choose my own doctors and healthcare, my freedom to drive the car I wish and choose the type of fuel for my car, and home that is best for me., My Freedom to own a gun, freedom to make as much money as the market  will allow.  I could name many more but to save my freedom  I will oppose every bad policy he introduces.  That is not sour grapes that is believing and standing for principles.

Quote from: Gary on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 19:04:46

Quote from: marc on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 13:56:28
Promising not to raise taxes when you're fighting two wars and working under a ridiculous deficit is irresponsible.

George W. Obama keeps on keepin' on.

Which was kind of my point, fwiw.

Marc
Are you aware that he wants to destrot the coal industry that your area depends on.  On coal and nuke power he said IF IF we can find a way to do it safely ..  He does not believe that we can do it with tech in place now.

 John, these people are so blinded to the truth it is almost physically painful.

Quote from: lightshineon on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 19:34:04
John, these people are so blinded to the truth it is almost physically painful.

Folks who are blind to the truth, are folks who see "their guy" as perfect, and the "other guy" as complete evil.  Never mind the fact, that the last two guys have had some monetary and national policies that are very, very similar.

Quote from: Gary on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 19:38:29

Quote from: lightshineon on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 19:34:04
John, these people are so blinded to the truth it is almost physically painful.

Folks who are blind to the truth, are folks who see "their guy" as perfect, and the "other guy" as complete evil.  Never mind the fact, that the last two guys have had some monetary and national policies that are very, very similar.

Gary, yeah the last two had their problems, but this So called president is trying to make the USA a socialist country, he has been just full of it. The others may have been bi whatever, but I am not talking about them though. Let that go, Bush is gone, Clinton is gone. It is know the man in office who will destroy this country. Do you need three D glasses? Or what?

Bush was bad in low gear, Obama is bad in overdrive. Big difference. There is a reason to differientiate. Do we run into the wall at 15 mph or 75 mph. I never feared for our very existence under Clinton except for our flirtation with Hillary Care. I am worried that we are not just going the wrong way, we are sprinting.

Besides Clinton was throttled back by a GOP congress. We have a perfect storm in DC today.

Quote from: Jaime on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 19:48:33
Bush was bd in low gear, Obama is bad in overdrive. Big difference. There is a reason to differientiate. Do we run into the wall at 15 mph or 75 mph. I never feared for our very existence under Clinton except for our flirtation with Hillary Care. I am worried that we are not just going the wrong way, we are sprinting.

A simple yes, you are right.

Quote from: Jaime on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 19:48:33
Bush was bd in low gear, Obama is bad in overdrive. Big difference. There is a reason to differientiate. Do we run into the wall at 15 mph or 75 mph. I never feared for our very existence under Clinton except for our flirtation with Hillary Care. I am worried that we are not just going the wrong way, we are sprinting.

Going the wrong way, is still going the wrong way.  Many "conservative" folks failed to realize that because of their "love affair" with GWB.

Quote from: Gary on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 20:18:10

Quote from: Jaime on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 19:48:33
Bush was bd in low gear, Obama is bad in overdrive. Big difference. There is a reason to differientiate. Do we run into the wall at 15 mph or 75 mph. I never feared for our very existence under Clinton except for our flirtation with Hillary Care. I am worried that we are not just going the wrong way, we are sprinting.

Going the wrong way, is still going the wrong way.  Many "conservative" folks failed to realize that because of their "love affair" with GWB.

There is a difference with GWB, and why is he still here? Obama is a socialist, really he is. I knew this before the election most people did. I am not in love with GWB, never think of him until the left bring him up to justify Obama.

Quote from: lightshineon on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 20:21:24

Quote from: Gary on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 20:18:10

Quote from: Jaime on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 19:48:33
Bush was bd in low gear, Obama is bad in overdrive. Big difference. There is a reason to differientiate. Do we run into the wall at 15 mph or 75 mph. I never feared for our very existence under Clinton except for our flirtation with Hillary Care. I am worried that we are not just going the wrong way, we are sprinting.

Going the wrong way, is still going the wrong way.  Many "conservative" folks failed to realize that because of their "love affair" with GWB.

There is a difference with GWB, and why is he still here? Obama is a socialist, really he is. I knew this before the election most people did. I am not in love with GWB, never think of him until the left bring him up to justify Obama.

I don't justify Obama.  I think he is leading us down the wrong path.  But we were on the wrong path before Obama was elected.

Quote from: kmv on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 19:01:44
This is a very serious question:  if you're afraid of losing freedom, why are you so willing to disenfranchise those of us who voted for Obama?  

It is easy for me to "disenfranchise" you. If you voted for Obama, you and I have NOTHING in common.

And I will repeat what I posted before. I do not see how, a self proclaiming Christian, could have voted for a man that stands for EVERYTHING our Lord and Savior would stand against. Amazing.

Quote from: kmv on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 19:01:44
Why are people like those on this site trying to negate the election they lost?

Negate the election? I am saddened by the outcome. I may not agree with how it is done (couple big states swinging the entire election), but it is what it is. He won.

Now, if you are referring to the birth certificate issues, well that is easy to get rid of. Just show a birth certificate. A notarized birth certificate. We all have one. We all can get a replacement... They are on file with the birth state.

Quote from: kmv on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 19:01:44
Please don't claim it's concern for the future of the country, 'cause that's a lie.  

A lie huh? Well, not only are you WRONG, you are blinded by your own wants and wishes.  

This is a great country, but it is slowly dying. That is a fact. And it does concern me that people like you do not seem to care. Obama is a socialist. Period. This is not and never has been a socialist country. Something must change.

Quote from: kmv on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 19:01:44
People like those on this site are calling for armed revolution, are making ludicrous, moronic claims (the anti-Christ, for Pete's sake!), are making heroes out of traitors, are trying to delegitimize the votes of the majority of voters any way they can.

I NEVER said he was the antichrist. Only that the video was very eerie. And that I had check the Strongs Hebrew/Greek translation, and the narration was accurate as far as the translation. Don't believe me, go check for yourself.

Quote from: kmv on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 19:01:44
People like those on this site are willing to rob the majority of voters for their own selfishness.  Face it, that's not a love of freedom.  That's just despicable.

Never saw this type of concern when Bill Clinton was president. I never worried about my country ceasing to exist under Bill Clinton. Yes, President Clinton was a liberal democrat.. But President Obama is much, much worse. He is a socialist. And that is unamerican.

Socialism and America do not mix.

This stuff is embarrasing.

Quote from: marc on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 21:20:49
This stuff is embarrasing.

Yea I know but Obama and his socialist buddies don't blush easy.

I'm talking about the  garbage Mac just spewed primarily, but it really fits in with the birther nonsense and j-man's illuminati delusion.

Quote from: Mac on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 20:38:15

Quote from: kmv on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 19:01:44
This is a very serious question:  if you're afraid of losing freedom, why are you so willing to disenfranchise those of us who voted for Obama? 

It is easy for me to "disenfranchise" you. If you voted for Obama, you and I have NOTHING in common.

Mac, are you aware that 'disenfranchise' means to deprive someone of the right of citizenship - the right to vote? 

Are you trying to say that the votes of people who have nothing in common with you should not count?

Quote
And I will repeat what I posted before. I do not see how, a self proclaiming Christian, could have voted for a man that stands for EVERYTHING our Lord and Savior would stand against. Amazing.

I don't doubt that at all.  I can tell from your previous posts that there are many, many things which you don't understand.

QuoteSocialism and America do not mix

True.  More pertinent to discussion on this site, though, is that apparently 'conservative' and 'democracy' no longer mix.  Sad.

Quote from: kmv on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 21:38:35

Quote from: Mac on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 20:38:15

Quote from: kmv on Tue Aug 04, 2009 - 19:01:44
This is a very serious question:  if you're afraid of losing freedom, why are you so willing to disenfranchise those of us who voted for Obama?  

It is easy for me to "disenfranchise" you. If you voted for Obama, you and I have NOTHING in common.

Mac, are you aware that 'disenfranchise' means to deprive someone of the right of citizenship - the right to vote?  

Are you trying to say that the votes of people who have nothing in common with you should not count?

Quote
And I will repeat what I posted before. I do not see how, a self proclaiming Christian, could have voted for a man that stands for EVERYTHING our Lord and Savior would stand against. Amazing.

I don't doubt that at all.  I can tell from your previous posts that there are many, many things which you don't understand.

QuoteSocialism and America do not mix

True.  More pertinent to discussion on this site, though, is that apparently 'conservative' and 'democracy' no longer mix.  Sad.

The problem is partisans who are blind to truth.  It often appears from your posting, that you qualify as a partisan.