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 I am perplexed as to how and why bible-believing Christians can justify and reconcile that goth romances containing occultic themes, vampirism, werewolves and the like are healthy fantasies/entertainment!  All of the girls in my sons youth group are Twilight crazy??!!!!

If anyone shares my concerns/views and knows of any dvds that I can purchase to give out to educate Christian parents/teens re the dangers of the Twilight series I would be appreciative. Having said that, I am in the middle of composing a video to place on You Tube that I will burn and give to people would be appreciated.

In His Grip, xxxx

 well here is one mom that does not, this whole vampire craze is freaky. watching hannity last night, they were talking about Christian vampires, Muslim vampires, Hindu vampires.  Twilight is based in Mormon beliefs mixed with the occult. Not my kids, and x-out Harry stink Potter along with it.

What Mormon beliefs and occult beliefs/practices are in Twilight? LOL You've apparently never seen it or read any of it.

Many Christians are okay with Lord of the Rings and Chronicles of Narnia which both are based on mythical fantasy lands with scary non-real creatures who fight and kill other mythical creatures. This is also make believe. Vampire lore is typically very adult and sinister and graphically sexual. Twilight is not. Its a clean teenage love story. For example, the couples in the story do not have any sort of premarital sex.  In some ways it is a vampire version of Romeo and Juliet--two people who aren't supposed to love one another but can't help it and he has various powers and weaknesses because of his vampire nature. He doesn't kill people nor does his family of other vampires because they are trying to live good moral lives like regular people even though they have an intense predatory instinct. Girls seem to like it because of the fearful tension between them and because he is so protective of her. However, there are bad guy vampires also in the story and so they do fight. The story is morally very very very mild when compared to either the teen movie genre or the vampire genre--both of which would contain far more sinful behavior. Its really aimed at the middle school girl crowd. That being said, its certainly not a Sunday school movie and for a Christian parent the real legitimate concern is that it could open the door to an interest in other vampire stories that are sometimes far more questionable morally but the same could be true for any story or movie. I think its best to go on a case by case basis.

Quote from: lightshineon on Sat Nov 28, 2009 - 00:32:24
well here is one mom that does not, this whole vampire craze is freaky. watching hannity last night, they were talking about Christian vampires, Muslim vampires, Hindu vampires.  Twilight is based in Mormon beliefs mixed with the occult. Not my kids, and x-out Harry stink Potter along with it.

Praise the Lord! Thanks so much for your encouragement.  It is wonderful to have validation that we are not alone!  The Mormon beliefs are blatantly interwoven into the books/movie with the theme of eternal love. We know, obviously that once we die we will forever be with the Lord, and our marriage will be null and void!  Yet the mormons believe in eternal sex and for the women, eternally being pregnant! That is a nightmare surely, for any women! :-)

Yes, we also are most vehemently opposed to Harry Potter. And it is wonderful that there are many resources out there. We have dvds from Catyrl Matrisiana (spelling?) and Fight the Good Fight Ministries that we have been blessed to lend in order to educate our brothers and sisters. Yet, there are no dvds to my knowledge warning of the dangers of Twilight.

It breaks my heart, and surely the Lords also, when I hear, read or learn of teenagers who have strayed into the occult. I watched a video last night on one of the impressionable young ladies brainwashed by the infamous self-avowed vampire, Rod Ferrell from the vampire clan. There just seems to be more and more teens entering into the occultic realm and making harmful choices.

1Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. 2It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. 3 So watch yourselves. Luke 17:1-3

Quote from: His Princess Grace on Sat Nov 28, 2009 - 01:59:37
The Mormon beliefs are blatantly interwoven into the books/movie with the theme of eternal love.

That is an interesting point that I hadn't considered. Although still, eternal love? It is in quite a few stories especially make believe mythical ones where the romance characters live forever.

If your daughter intends to read these books or see the movies she eventually WILL and there is no way that you will stop her. Prohibiting them is totally legitimate based on the values in your home, don't get me wrong. But you should also bear in mind that reinforcing a list of things as forbidden fruit often backfires once kids are out the door and on their own and they dive headlong into everything you prohibited over the years and they don't know how to process it since it has always just been wrong. If the big thing wrong with a movie is that it talks about eternal love, then maybe its something you could watch together and then discuss the parts that you each think don't jive with Scripture. Just an idea. It depends on a million factors like how upset she is about not being able to, how old she is, etc. You have to pick your battles.

Quote from: Logismos on Sat Nov 28, 2009 - 01:43:01
What Mormon beliefs and occult beliefs/practices are in Twilight? LOL You've apparently never seen it or read any of it.

Many Christians are okay with Lord of the Rings and Chronicles of Narnia which both are based on mythical fantasy lands with scary non-real creatures who fight and kill other mythical creatures. This is also make believe. Vampire lore is typically very adult and sinister and graphically sexual. Twilight is not. Its a clean teenage love story. For example, the couples in the story do not have any sort of premarital sex.  In some ways it is a vampire version of Romeo and Juliet--two people who aren't supposed to love one another but can't help it and he has various powers and weaknesses because of his vampire nature. He doesn't kill people nor does his family of other vampires because they are trying to live good moral lives like regular people even though they have an intense predatory instinct. Girls seem to like it because of the fearful tension between them and because he is so protective of her. However, there are bad guy vampires also in the story and so they do fight. The story is morally very very very mild when compared to either the teen movie genre or the vampire genre--both of which would contain far more sinful behavior. Its really aimed at the middle school girl crowd. That being said, its certainly not a Sunday school movie and for a Christian parent the real legitimate concern is that it could open the door to an interest in other vampire stories that are sometimes far more questionable morally but the same could be true for any story or movie. I think its best to go on a case by case basis.

Writers such as C S Lewis wrote fantasy through a christian world view and it not only acknowledged good vs evil but it made it very distinguisable. It did not glamorise evil and so it is certainly a lot more healthier choice for fantasy, in my opinion. Not all fantasy is bad, it is HOW it is presented...I reiterate, it is the framework through which they are presented through, and their motivations.

In the bible, in the Old Testament, the book of Deuteronomy it states that God forbids the drinking of blood. He hates it! We are NOT to do this! So, I do NOT see Edward as a good vampire. As far as the bible is concerned vampires are demons -- and they are NOT good. So it is non-negotiable to me, because God is non-negotiable. I have to refer to the bible as my foundation.

Vampires are closely related to wicca, goth, satanism, and so forth. Vampires actually do exist in that people follow this as a way of life, religion, etc. We are to have nothing to do with the occult in reality or fantasy. Just as we are to have nothing with pornography or adultery in reality or fantasy.  There are soooo many scriptures in the bible warning us about this. Those that practice the dark arts not be going to heaven....and this IS acknowledged in the books with souls being damned....they are presenting the truth!

I do not profess to be an expert on the occult, but I have certainly researched and have an interest in being informed and consequently continue to investigate this realm including Anton La Vey, Aleister Crowley, the occult, etc. And as there is a rise in occultic movies in Hollywood, I also see how prolific teen vampire murders are escalating and I can't help but wonder if such movies that glamorise celebrities as vampires, in conjunction possibly with celebrity worship syndrome, and other reasons have been instrumental in the rise of vampires in our midst.

Tyra Banks had real life vampires on her show for instance. Because of such movies and the popularity more-so of such films, it seems to spill over into talk shows and gives the whole vampire fascination and movement more attention, with an avenue, yes for teens to enter this world. Gosh, in 2006 a self-avowed vampire named Jonathan "The Impaler

Quote from: Logismos on Sat Nov 28, 2009 - 02:25:03

Quote from: His Princess Grace on Sat Nov 28, 2009 - 01:59:37
The Mormon beliefs are blatantly interwoven into the books/movie with the theme of eternal love.

That is an interesting point that I hadn't considered. Although still, eternal love? It is in quite a few stories especially make believe mythical ones where the romance characters live forever.

If your daughter intends to read these books or see the movies she eventually WILL and there is no way that you will stop her. Prohibiting them is totally legitimate based on the values in your home, don't get me wrong. But you should also bear in mind that reinforcing a list of things as forbidden fruit often backfires once kids are out the door and on their own and they dive headlong into everything you prohibited over the years and they don't know how to process it since it has always just been wrong. If the big thing wrong with a movie is that it talks about eternal love, then maybe its something you could watch together and then discuss the parts that you each think don't jive with Scripture. Just an idea. It depends on a million factors like how upset she is about not being able to, how old she is, etc. You have to pick your battles.

I agree with you that we can't control our kids and we have to pick our battles. I have a son, and he is not interested in the occult. But then he has been educated on the deception and dangers of this. So it has been an informed decision not to go down this road -- of course, things are subjec to change. But to-date, i have no problems. Just that the girls around him are all into it.... I reiterate, he is well educated at this current point in time, and understands why these themes are off limits in our home.  He is a good kid and we have a healthy relationship with him. But that has been a priority for me. We try to walk the fine line of having boundaries without being controlling! We have attempted to educate him and not dish out orders but for him to learn to understand God's wisdom adn I think this has been beneficial to our cause. I have faith that he will make godly choices (you, know the scripture ...train up a child in the way he should go and when he is older he will not depart from it!).  I stand on this promise! :-)

However, having said that. When he is an adult and married and left home...he is accountable to stand before the Lord. I can't control his decisions or choose for him,  but again I have faith and I believe in the power of a praying mother! :-)

 Well when my kids are old enough to become accountable, then they are accountable. yes Log, everyone knows the writer is a Mormon.

Quote from: His Princess Grace on Sat Nov 28, 2009 - 02:42:38
not only acknowledged good vs evil but it made it very distinguisable.

That is a halmark of all fantasy stories. There is always the good side and the evil side. The same is true for Twilight and the bad side is not "glorifed."

QuoteIn the bible, in the Old Testament, the book of Deuteronomy it states that God forbids the drinking of blood. He hates it! We are NOT to do this! So, I do NOT see Edward as a good vampire.

Okay, but I doubt your sincerity on this point. If Edward was a pork eater would you feel the same way (Leviticus 11:7-8)? How about if he enjoyed some chunks of fat in his meat--that is also a sin (Leviticus 3:17). What if he was wearing clothing woven from more than one kind of cloth (Leviticus 19:19)? Or what if he was eating shrimp or some other kind of aquatic creature that has no fins (Deuteronomy 14:9-10)? Believe me, I could go on and on. I think your biblical argument about blood is contrived and in any of these other cases you wouldn't care.

QuoteVampires are closely related to wicca, goth, satanism, and so forth.

There are no occult references in Twilight. Some of the characters are normal humans, some of them are mythical and its a story that takes place on earth. It doesn't deal with anything spiritual.

Anyway, I'm not trying to advertise that these books and movies are wholesome Christian entertainment for kids. I just disagree with some of your reasons for getting extra hyped about it. I think the moral weaknesses are relatively minor and similar to what kids are exposed to in any sort of standard secular pre-teen drama.

Ultimately its fiction and kids know its fake. If you think your kids are so stupid that they can't recognize fiction from reality, then certainly don't let them watch it. But you're kids do know its fake and you pretending that there are lots of "real" vampires out there and that the story is all about the occult or mormonism is not good because your kids will know that's not true and if over-hyping untrue things is a habit of yours they will eventually question the things you teach them that really are true and important.

I would just tell them the truth: Its fiction geared toward kids and its probably not that bad, but other vampire fiction is really bad and you don't want to open the door to any of it.

Is Twilight a book or a movie?

Its 4 books and so far 2 movies.

Oh okay, right, thanks.

Is it supposed to be specifically Christian, or what? I gather some ppl have a problem with it.

Take care.

Quote from: Logismos on Sun Nov 29, 2009 - 13:26:30
Its 4 books and so far 2 movies.

Quote from: farouk on Sun Nov 29, 2009 - 13:43:19
Oh okay, right, thanks.

Is it supposed to be specifically Christian, or what? I gather some ppl have a problem with it.

No its a secular teen romance series aimed at the younger girl audience and its set the real world except there are some people who are secretly mythical creatures like werewolves and vampires. A human girl falls in love with a "nice" vampire who doesn't kill people. The evil vampires want to kill her, he wants to protect her, drama and action ensues. Since it is aimed at the older child audience its pretty clean as far as there being no foul language or premarital sex.

I just read a small book entilted "The Darkness of Twilight" by Steve Wohlberg.  I was checking its sources online when I saw our blog.  I found it to be very informative as well as accurate.  I  plan to share it with my students.  It is available at whitehorsemedia.com as well as other sources.  It is a very inexpensive booklet.

Most people find it acceptable because Twilight is harmless, it's just another mindless teen romance that teenage girls eat up

Show me one person who was driven to practicing the occult after reading Twilight and I will fly to your house and buy you a steak dinner.  Christians need to realize that not everything that has magic or vampires in it is evil, the so called occultic elements in Twilight are so watered down as to be completely meaningless.  There are some children's books that actually should be avoided like the His Dark Materials trilogy, but Twilight isn't one of them. 

At least Twilight shouldn't be avoided for those reasons...it should be avoided because it's mindless drivel, which is far more damaging than the harmless inclusion of a couple werewolves and teenage vampires who don't even feed on humans

When I was a kid, youngsters often read, the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, by C S Lewis.

(I never read it; I've never been part of a bandwaggon against it, either, since it's something I know little about.)

Quote from: Huscarl on Tue Dec 01, 2009 - 10:13:58
the so called occultic elements in Twilight are so watered down as to be completely meaningless.

Like what occultic elements are there specifically within the books--even in watered down form? I can't think of any.

Quote from: Logismos on Wed Dec 02, 2009 - 00:02:23

Quote from: Huscarl on Tue Dec 01, 2009 - 10:13:58
the so called occultic elements in Twilight are so watered down as to be completely meaningless.

Like what occultic elements are there specifically within the books--even in watered down form? I can't think of any.

OH Please!

So does that mean you don't know of any either?

My guess is that she hasn't read the books! I read all four of them last week...very easy read. I found no signs of occultism in their either. Unless you count vampires and werewolves, but I did find some other things.
One of the main themes in the books is Edwards refusal to turn Bella into a vampire. His reason? He is not sure if he lost his soul when he became one and therefore does not want to take the chance on her losing hers and losing her chance to enter heaven...if there is such a place. At one point in the books he thinks he has died and woken up in Heaven. His thoughts at that moment are that his father was right about Heaven and hell.
Edward also states that he is old fashioned and would rather wait until marriage to have sex...
The principles in this book are more than sound and Christian (even if written by a Mormon). This is a fairy tale! For goodness sake, judge not!
If you have taught your children well, you have nothing to worry about. And unless you read the books yourself, do not be so quick to judge.

Thanks for the specific details since you're probably the only one here in this discussion who has actually read the books. My wife has read the books and told me all about them and she is far more of a conservative Christian than I am. However, to be fair I personally will not let my middle school age kids read them although not because of any supposed occult stuff--ONLY because it could be a gateway to other vampire stories and a lot of them out there are really raunchy and anti-Christian which kids would be more vulnerable to.

I can certainly respect your view that this may be a gateway for impressionable minds to keep on reading vampire books. And from reading the inside covers tonight at the store they are not at all tame like these are.
I think though that these books almost make it seem 'cool' to abstain and have Christian values, so there might be some good qualities in them. As long as children know again that it is a fantasy...and honestly the teens in this book are so virtuous that most kids probably see the virtue as the fantasy part! 
I have seen girls wearing t-shirts which say "Someday my vampire will come" as opposed to prince and again it is because Edward is the model of a virtuous man in this book. Something many young girls do not see in any other work of fiction nowadays... He is a pure gentleman, even if he is a vampire!

 Well, you guy's can say I have not read them, and yes the not so subtle Mormon values. plays a part in why I do not lie them. There are other books, about vampires ( am obsession actually with kids, and fruit cake adults such as " Tempted", which deal with Wicca also. Look your kids you decide, my kids, I decide. When they are old enough then they will decide. I am not trying to tell others how to raise their kids, so why tell me I am wrong for my convictions?

Quote from: Logismos on Sun Nov 29, 2009 - 13:19:23

Quote from: His Princess Grace on Sat Nov 28, 2009 - 02:42:38
In the bible, in the Old Testament, the book of Deuteronomy it states that God forbids the drinking of blood. He hates it! We are NOT to do this! So, I do NOT see Edward as a good vampire.

Okay, but I doubt your sincerity on this point. If Edward was a pork eater would you feel the same way (Leviticus 11:7-8)? How about if he enjoyed some chunks of fat in his meat--that is also a sin (Leviticus 3:17). What if he was wearing clothing woven from more than one kind of cloth (Leviticus 19:19)? Or what if he was eating shrimp or some other kind of aquatic creature that has no fins (Deuteronomy 14:9-10)? Believe me, I could go on and on. I think your biblical argument about blood is contrived and in any of these other cases you wouldn't care.

Would Acts 15:29 give you pause? 

Quote from: normfromga on Fri Dec 04, 2009 - 15:36:57

Quote from: Logismos on Sun Nov 29, 2009 - 13:19:23

Quote from: His Princess Grace on Sat Nov 28, 2009 - 02:42:38
In the bible, in the Old Testament, the book of Deuteronomy it states that God forbids the drinking of blood. He hates it! We are NOT to do this! So, I do NOT see Edward as a good vampire.

Okay, but I doubt your sincerity on this point. If Edward was a pork eater would you feel the same way (Leviticus 11:7-8)? How about if he enjoyed some chunks of fat in his meat--that is also a sin (Leviticus 3:17). What if he was wearing clothing woven from more than one kind of cloth (Leviticus 19:19)? Or what if he was eating shrimp or some other kind of aquatic creature that has no fins (Deuteronomy 14:9-10)? Believe me, I could go on and on. I think your biblical argument about blood is contrived and in any of these other cases you wouldn't care.

Would Acts 15:29 give you pause? 

LOL, good Norm, I envy your wit. Look who in the heck wants to suck blood anyways, does that ring of evil to you log, and the other judgmental person, who said I have not read the books, well I have not read all, one is enough. There is this kid who is eighteen, who thinks he is a vampire, I know him, he goes around bitting people thinking he is a vampire, because these loony books. I hope he finds you log and r, and steals some plasma from your arm.

This brings back to mind my grandmother.  She would always object to my mother watching "Dark Shadows

Quote from: caldwelljr11 on Fri Dec 04, 2009 - 22:31:16
This brings back to mind my grandmother.  She would always object to my mother watching "Dark Shadows

My wife still watches the "newer

Quote from: lightshineon on Fri Dec 04, 2009 - 11:45:45
Well, you guy's can say I have not read them, and yes the not so subtle Mormon values. plays a part in why I do not lie them. There are other books, about vampires ( am obsession actually with kids, and fruit cake adults such as " Tempted", which deal with Wicca also. Look your kids you decide, my kids, I decide. When they are old enough then they will decide. I am not trying to tell others how to raise their kids, so why tell me I am wrong for my convictions?

I don't think anyone here has told you that you are wrong. If you read the opening post it asks why someone would let their children read the Twilight series. I have given my answer for my children and my worldview on it as others have also, whether it be pro or con. You of course have your children and you decide what is best for them from your worldview. 

Quote from: raisab on Sat Dec 05, 2009 - 23:12:11

Quote from: lightshineon on Fri Dec 04, 2009 - 11:45:45
Well, you guy's can say I have not read them, and yes the not so subtle Mormon values. plays a part in why I do not lie them. There are other books, about vampires ( am obsession actually with kids, and fruit cake adults such as " Tempted", which deal with Wicca also. Look your kids you decide, my kids, I decide. When they are old enough then they will decide. I am not trying to tell others how to raise their kids, so why tell me I am wrong for my convictions?

I don't think anyone here has told you that you are wrong. If you read the opening post it asks why someone would let their children read the Twilight series. I have given my answer for my children and my worldview on it as others have also, whether it be pro or con. You of course have your children and you decide what is best for them from your worldview. 

That is true,

That is a good question. I wonder if people really understand thatJesus may not like these movies. I know i dod not.
Faithlady

I haven't seen the movie, but it sounds like a lot of other vampire movies that come out of Hollyweird these days. There always seems to be an underlying theme of evil creature is the good guy. It's nothing new really, just another overdone, rehashed, unimaginative version of Beauty and the Beast. But it does put the thought in young peoples minds that evil creatures are ok. I have no interest in seeing it myself. It's comparable to teaching kids that bears are cute and cuddly when in reality they would maul you to death. Decide for yourself. There is not much reality involved, but it's the thought that counts.

The Lord of the Rings is about sorcery and so is Narnia.  So ifn's you let your kids watch these, but not other stuff, than you just might be a hypocrite.

Quote from: Bocephus on Sat Jan 02, 2010 - 18:29:14
The Lord of the Rings is about sorcery and so is Narnia.  So ifn's you let your kids watch these, but not other stuff, than you just might be a hypocrite.

The difference is the underlying truths in the stories.  Good vs evil in a moral aspect or God vs evil (secular allegory vs Christian allegory).  I don't have a problem with the use of Gandolf by Tolken, or Narnia by Lewis.  I do object to some shows that I have seen (ie. Evil is ok if it is for the moral good, or that there is no evil, just choices so what we call evil could also be good, etc.)

I finished The Circle Trilogy by Ted Dekker, which would also fall into the fantasy realm.  One of the demonic characters asked a man if he found something they did to be offensive.  The reply was "no

Quote from: caldwelljr11 on Sat Jan 02, 2010 - 19:27:27

Quote from: Bocephus on Sat Jan 02, 2010 - 18:29:14
The Lord of the Rings is about sorcery and so is Narnia.  So ifn's you let your kids watch these, but not other stuff, than you just might be a hypocrite.

The difference is the underlying truths in the stories.  Good vs evil in a moral aspect or God vs evil (secular allegory vs Christian allegory).  I don't have a problem with the use of Gandolf by Tolken, or Narnia by Lewis.  I do object to some shows that I have seen (ie. Evil is ok if it is for the moral good, or that there is no evil, just choices so what we call evil could also be good, etc.)

I finished The Circle Trilogy by Ted Dekker, which would also fall into the fantasy realm.  One of the demonic characters asked a man if he found something they did to be offensive.  The reply was "no