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Quote from: Michael G on Mon Mar 22, 2010 - 22:22:04

SABBATHS PLURAL are special days of rest with Festivals pointing to Christ sacrifice and work fulfilled at the cross, resurrection and ascension....

SABBATHS  DAYS are pointing toward Christ's passing Character  and should be specified by the words "DAYS or SABBATHS

Hi Martin
Sorry I should of said that Plural and Singular apply to past tense verses

Leviticus scriptures are not past tense

These verses in Leviticus there is no confusion, they are in the making of that particular Sabbath feast day Law. It would have to be singular because it was noted for that particular day, you could not use plural it would not make sense..

Read it with plural,
"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first [day] of the month, shall ye have a "Sabbaths

Quote from: Michael G on Thu Mar 25, 2010 - 01:40:28
Hi Martin
..., the only way to see the error would be to know the whole context of what it is talking about...or in this case what is not, the 4th commandment of Gods Holy Sabbath Day...

Yes, a shadow cannot make another shadow.  Therefore, as Colossians 2:16, 17 states, these Sabbaths were "shadows of things to come."  A shadow cannot be the anti-type.  Since the Messiah interpreted these "shadow" Sabbaths, which were the type, by fulfilling them on the anti-type, He explained exactly which Sabbath caused the "shadowy" Sabbaths---it was the Holy 7th-day Sabbath.

Quote from: MARTIN on Sat Mar 27, 2010 - 00:39:23

Quote from: Michael G on Thu Mar 25, 2010 - 01:40:28
Hi Martin
..., the only way to see the error would be to know the whole context of what it is talking about...or in this case what is not, the 4th commandment of Gods Holy Sabbath Day...

Yes, a shadow cannot make another shadow.  Therefore, as Colossians 2:16, 17 states, these Sabbaths were "shadows of things to come."  A shadow cannot be the anti-type.  Since the Messiah interpreted these "shadow" Sabbaths, which were the type, by fulfilling them on the anti-type, He explained exactly which Sabbath caused the "shadowy" Sabbaths---it was the Holy 7th-day Sabbath.

 

I am not to sure what you mean?

are you saying Colossians 2:16, 17  is talking about The Commandment of God written on Stone with Gods own finger

Saturn's number in Chaldee is 666 says Hislop.

There is no 666 in the whole Bible.

If you look at the Greek words for

Six
Six hundred and
Sixty-six

You will discover words which point uncomfortably to people using music to "make the lambs dumb before the slaughter." They PROFANED the Sabbath (can mean play the flute, steal one's inheritance, pollute, prostitute and as Lucifer was cast as profane out of heaven."  Lucifer is call the "singing and harp playing prostitute in the garden of Eden."

The Judas Bag of the Son of Perdition was to "carry the mouthpieces of wind instruments." That points to Judas trying to musically triumph over Messiah.

The masses of the spiritual people attended synagogue on the Sabbath where vocal or instrumental rejoicing was outlawed because that DEFACTO "makes the lambs dumb before the slaughter." Only the tribe of Levi profaned the Sabbath and they had been abandoned to WORSHIP the starry host and the SUN gods were worshipped on the SEVENTH day.

Remember the Sabbath and DON'T PROFANE IT: Rest or as with the symbolic language of God on the REST day, take a nap. For heaven's sake don't PROFANE it by doing HARD WORK called WORSHIP when people are exhausted and need the SEVENTH DAY for REST.  NOT WORSHIP.

Quote from: Michael G on Sun Mar 28, 2010 - 18:21:02

Quote from: MARTIN on Sat Mar 27, 2010 - 00:39:23

Quote from: Michael G on Thu Mar 25, 2010 - 01:40:28
Hi Martin
..., the only way to see the error would be to know the whole context of what it is talking about...or in this case what is not, the 4th commandment of Gods Holy Sabbath Day...

Yes, a shadow cannot make another shadow.  Therefore, as Colossians 2:16, 17 states, these Sabbaths were "shadows of things to come."  A shadow cannot be the anti-type.  Since the Messiah interpreted these "shadow" Sabbaths, which were the type, by fulfilling them on the anti-type, He explained exactly which Sabbath caused the "shadowy" Sabbaths---it was the Holy 7th-day Sabbath.

 

I am not to sure what you mean?

are you saying Colossians 2:16, 17  is talking about The Commandment of God written on Stone with Gods own finger

I'm sorry I'm not making myself clear.

No, no, I'm definitely not saying that the "shadow" Sabbaths in Colossians 2:16, 17 are the Sabbath of the 4th Commandment.  The Sabbaths mentioned are "shadows of things to come".  It is speaking of Sabbaths which were distinct from the holy 7th-day Sabbath.  They came on different days of the week as they were scheduled from the new moon, whereas, the holy 7th-day Sabbath is scheduled by the sun.  These "shadow" Sabbaths were like a "rehearsal".  They were observed by doing no "servile" work.  The holy 7th-day Sabbath was observed with restrictions of "no work whatsoever.  The "shadow" Sabbaths were prophetic of a future 7th-day Sabbath when the feast days would be fulfilled and these "shadow" Sabbaths then would coincide with the holy 7th-day Sabbath.

In John 19:31 the coinciding of the "shadow" Sabbath with the holy 7th day Sabbath was termed an "high day".  This was the day following the Messiah's crucifixion.


Let me know if this is not clear and I'll try again.

For an expanded study of all the implications of these "shadow" Sabbaths, and their great prophetic significance, I would invite you to the studies posted currently on Page 3 of the main thread page, titled,  "THE GLORIOUS SABBATH IN THE MYSTERIOUS SANCTUARY", Study #1 to #5.

Quote from: Michael G on Sun Mar 28, 2010 - 18:21:02

Quote from: MARTIN on Sat Mar 27, 2010 - 00:39:23

Quote from: Michael G on Thu Mar 25, 2010 - 01:40:28
Hi Martin
..., the only way to see the error would be to know the whole context of what it is talking about...or in this case what is not, the 4th commandment of Gods Holy Sabbath Day...

Yes, a shadow cannot make another shadow.  Therefore, as Colossians 2:16, 17 states, these Sabbaths were "shadows of things to come."  A shadow cannot be the anti-type.  Since the Messiah interpreted these "shadow" Sabbaths, which were the type, by fulfilling them on the anti-type, He explained exactly which Sabbath caused the "shadowy" Sabbaths---it was the Holy 7th-day Sabbath.

::juggle:: 

I am not to sure what you mean?

are you saying Colossians 2:16, 17  is talking about The Commandment of God written on Stone with Gods own finger

JOHNN,  on the main page under the title "WHY WILL WE WORSHIP GOD ON THE NEW MOON AND ON SABBATH IN THE NEW EARTH, WHY ??? « 1 2 3 4 »"  has some very good points that He brings out, that are very important to understand as well,  which I recommend everyone read.

There are 6 different kinds of Sabbaths referred to in the text, "which are a shadow of things to come." Col.2:16, 17.  They are all shadows of the Holy 7th-day Sabbath.  Remember that the 7th-day Sabbath is not a shadow, but the reality.


THE 7 DIFFERENT KINDS OF SABBATHS


The first two of these Sabbaths have been discussed earlier, the seventh-day Sabbath and the "lunar", "shadowy

"The great plan of redemption results in fully bringing back the world into God's favor. All that was lost by sin is restored. Not only man but the earth is redeemed, to be the eternal abode of the obedient. For six thousand years Satan has struggled to maintain possession of the earth. Now God's original purpose in its creation is accomplished. "The saints of the Most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever."  AH 539-400   

"Satan's work of ruin is forever ended. For six thousand years he has wrought his will, filling the earth with woe, and causing grief throughout the universe. The whole creation has groaned and travailed together in pain. Now God's creatures are forever delivered from his presence and temptations. " FLB 72.8


"When Adam and his sons began to offer the ceremonial sacrifices ordained by God as a type of the coming Redeemer, Satan discerned in these a symbol of communion between earth and heaven. During the long centuries that have followed, it has been his constant effort to intercept this communion. Untiringly has he sought to misrepresent God and to misinterpret the rites pointing to the Saviour, and with a great majority of the members of the human family he has been successful.

CAN YOU ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS ON THE SHADOW SABBATHS OF COLOSSIANS 2:16, 17 
       

1.  (a) Why was the Passover to be celebrated on the 14th day of the first month, the day before a type of "Sabbath

ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS


First, I would point out that there is a time element in connection with the "MYSTERY

QuoteThe 12 annual "Sabbaths

Quote from: djconklin on Fri Sep 17, 2010 - 11:21:48

QuoteThe 12 annual "Sabbaths

QuoteThe Bible (KJV.) actually calls  all the annual feasts as, "the feasts of the Lord

Quote from: djconklin on Tue Sep 21, 2010 - 18:17:23

QuoteThe Bible (KJV.) actually calls  all the annual feasts as, "the feasts of the Lord

I told you: mow'ed--"appointed time".  When they literally want to say "feast" they use the word "chag."

Br. djconklin

Very good--"appointed times", sounds good.  Even those that are not
"shadow" Sabbaths,   would be the "appointed times", such as, Passover, Wave Sheaf, 7th day of Unleavened Bread, and the Day of Pentecost.  Some Bibles call all the feasts, "rehearsals".

Ye who are observing days...Paul discourses, have I spent my efforts in vain...Galatians 4:10,11 Jesus Christ has clearly been portrayed as crucified...Jesus is our Sabbath rest! Hebrews 4:10 It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me. Galatians 4:19

In the law we find observance of Sabbath days but in the new covenant we find ENTER (Matthew 11:25-30) the Sabbath rest.
Mark 2:27,28

Now we who have believed enter that rest...Hebrews 4:3 6:19,20 7:18,19

The believers at Colossae WERE keeping the feast days, new moons and ceremonial sabbaths in about 60-62 AD when Paul wrote to them.

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 18:41:30
Ye who are observing days...Paul discourses, have I spent my efforts in vain...Galatians 4:10,11 Jesus Christ has clearly been portrayed as crucified...Jesus is our Sabbath rest! Hebrews 4:10 It is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me. Galatians 4:19

In the law we find observance of Sabbath days but in the new covenant we find ENTER (Matthew 11:25-30) the Sabbath rest.
Mark 2:27,28

Now we who have believed enter that rest...Hebrews 4:3 6:19,20 7:18,19

Paul was endeavoring to show the Galatians that the old covenant had ended.  When the curtain in the temple had torn from the top to the bottom, the transition was made to the new covenant.  It showed that the way was now directly opened to the Father through the sacrifice of the Messiah.


The old covenant had been the "school master" to bring us unto Christ. (Galatians 3:24).   The purpose of this "schoolmaster" was to teach all the events and the exact timing when these events would occur under the new covenant.  The old covenant was the prophecy and the new covenant is the fulfillment of that prophecy.


Under the new covenant God writes, that which was written in stone, on the tables of our hearts,  (Jeremiah 31:31-33) so that we reflect the character of the Messiah fully, being "purified and made white" (Daniel 12:10).


Jeremiah 31:33 "But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

We enter into Christ's eternal rest on a 7th day Sabbath Day of Atonement.  It is left to us as a promise.  The day God has chosen for entering into that rest is the 7th day Sabbath.  "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God." Hebrews 4:9.  Every 7th day Sabbath is a foretaste of that great day.

The time when we enter into God's rest on the anti-typical Day of Atonement, on a 7th-day Sabbath, is not the second coming of Jesus.  This is the time when the Jubilee commences and God speaks the day and the hour of the second coming.


"And as God spoke the day and the hour of Jesus' coming and delivered the everlasting covenant to His people, He spoke one sentence, and then paused, while the words were rolling through the earth. The Israel of God stood with their eyes fixed upward, listening to the words as they came from the mouth of Jehovah, and rolled through the earth like peals of loudest thunder. It was awfully solemn. And at the end of every sentence the saints shouted, "Glory! Alleluia!" Their countenances were lighted up with the glory of God; and they shone with the glory, as did the face of Moses when he came down from Sinai. The wicked could not look on them for the glory. And when the never-ending blessing was pronounced on those who had honored God in keeping His Sabbath holy, there was a mighty shout of victory over the beast and over his image.
 
"Then commenced the jubilee, when the land should rest. I saw the pious slave rise in triumph and victory and shake off the chains that bound him,..." Early Writings, 34, 35 E.G. White

Quote from: MARTIN on Fri Mar 05, 2010 - 23:20:53
THREE well in the BIBLE Jesus says three days and three nights and that is compared to JOHNAH in the belly of the FISH.
So THREE must mean something ?

Then 12 hours of daylight and 12 hours of darkness seems to be OKAY from GENESIS.

The there were PASSOVER HIGH days they were regarded as sabbaths. That is from the BIBLE too.
That does not solved the issue of one night short. But id we take from when he was sentenced to death then that is the correct days and nights.

But I am asking if that can be seen as right.
Not as a HUNGUP though.

Quote from: MARTIN on Fri Mar 05, 2010 - 23:20:53Robert Two-

Yes, three does mean something, or the Messiah would not have given it as a sign.  But let's take a closer look at just what the Messiah actually said.  He said, "As Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly,..." Matthew 12: 40 KJV

Jonas was not dead for three days and three nights--He was a captive and a prisoner for three days and three nights.  "So must the Son of Man be...." Matthew 12:40

The Messiah was taken captive on what we consider as Thursday night, a few hours after sunset.  His sentencing was quite some hours later, so it didn't really have anything to do with His sentencing.

Therefore, He was a captive prisoner exactly like Jonas for three days and three nights.

The post by Mr. Conklin explains how the Hebrews consider time.  If it involved any portion of a day, it was considered one day.

I hope this explains it.

There was only one "high Sabbath" (John 19:31) during the 8 days of Passover (these 8 days would include the Passover and the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread), and this "high Sabbath" occurred on the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread in the year the Messiah was crucified which was the fifteenth day of the first month.  The next "shadow Sabbath" did not occur until the day after the 7th day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.  This is the way the feasts were scheduled in Leviticus 23 and this is how they were fulfilled in 31 C.E.

I disagree here, based on the simple words of the scripture (Matt. 12:40).
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

These words obviously debunk any 12hr day reasoning and also specifically point out that Christ must be in the 'heart of the earth' for those three days and three nights.

In the study of any subject in the Bible, first, one must gather all of the evidence on that particular subject.  There will always be a couple of texts that SEEM to have a meaning slightly different, or actually contradictory to the majority of the evidence.  However, the Bible being the Word of God, it does not contradict itself.  Therefore, there is a harmony of all the pieces of evidence IF understood correctly. The weight of the evidence determines what is truth.  This applies to prophecy, as well as, to other  doctrinal positions, actually to any subject under discussion from the Bible.


One cannot hold to a certain interpretation of one piece of evidence, if that interpretation contradicts  95 % of the evidence available in Scripture on that particular subject.  Therefore, the goal is to establish a harmony on the entire evidence given with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.


Your interpretation of the 3 days and the 3 nights involved in the death and the resurrection of the Messiah, cannot be harmonized with all the evidence available in the Word of God.   This evidence begins with the writings of Moses, especially in the old sanctuary system, and all the prophets, as well as, in the interpretation given by Christ's fulfillment of the feast days, and in His explanation to His disciples after His resurrection.

Quote from: MARTIN on Sun Dec 06, 2009 - 01:00:09Amo, we would definitely agree on the points that you mentioned.  I would like to add a little more specific detail regarding what are the "things to come" in connection with the "Sabbath days". 

What are these "Sabbath days" shadows of?  A shadow has no substance of itself.  If a "Sabbath" is a "shadow", it is definitely not of substance.  But a substance causes a shadow.  Therefore, a "shadow" of a Sabbath, would necessarily be caused by the 7th-day Sabbath.  The 7th-day Sabbath is the only Sabbath that is not a  "shadow" or a "type" or a "prophecy".  Simply because it, the 7th-day Sabbath, is the substance that causes the shadow. 

The "shadow of the things to come" refers to the fulfillment of the types, both those relating to the first advent, as well as the types relating to the second advent.  In 31 C.E.  when the spring feasts met fulfillment, all 8 of the "shadowy Sabbaths" listed in the spring feasts (Lev 23:11-21 KJV) came on 7th-day Sabbaths.  Jesus Himself gave us this interpretation by His fulfillment of these "shadowy Sabbaths" in the year of His crucifixion.

I would just add that the Passover, the Wave Sheaf, the 7th day of Unleavened Bread, and the Day of Pentecost were not specified in Leviticus to be "shadowy Sabbaths".  Therefore, in 31 C.E. these day mentioned did not fall on the 7th-day Sabbath.

Very good to know..

AI almost got this right.. 'A "ceremonial Sabbath" refers to the special, annual holy days in the Old Testament (like the first and last days of Unleavened Bread or Passover, Pentecost, Day of Atonement, Feast of Trumpets) which were distinct from the weekly seventh-day Sabbath, serving as foreshadows of Christ's work, fulfilled at His cross, while the weekly Sabbath (Saturday) is seen by many Christians as a moral, perpetual command established at creation, separate from those ceremonial laws.'

Sabbath'S are plural in Col 2:16 and would include any and all of the convocations listed within the 1st 5 Books of the Bible. The Day of Atonement was one of the Sabbath's as well as the 7th day of the Luni/solar month as observed by the ancient Israelites.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

The above highlighted classification, excludes the Ten Commandments and therefore the fourth as well, from the commandments, laws, or ordinances being addressed by Paul.

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,..................
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exo 24:12  And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.

Exo 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. 14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. 17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. 18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exo 34:1  And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

Deu 4:10 Specially the day that thou stoodest before the LORD thy God in Horeb, when the LORD said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children. 11 And ye came near and stood under the mountain; and the mountain burned with fire unto the midst of heaven, with darkness, clouds, and thick darkness. 12 And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice. 13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. 14 And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.

Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me. 23 And it came to pass, when ye heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness, (for the mountain did burn with fire,) that ye came near unto me, even all the heads of your tribes, and your elders; 24 And ye said, Behold, the LORD our God hath shewed us his glory and his greatness, and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire: we have seen this day that God doth talk with man, and he liveth. 25 Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, then we shall die. 26 For who is there of all flesh, that hath heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived? 27 Go thou near, and hear all that the LORD our God shall say: and speak thou unto us all that the LORD our God shall speak unto thee; and we will hear it, and do it.

Deu 9:9 When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant which the LORD made with you, then I abode in the mount forty days and forty nights, I neither did eat bread nor drink water: 10 And the LORD delivered unto me two tables of stone written with the finger of God; and on them was written according to all the words, which the LORD spake with you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly.

Deu 10:1 At that time the LORD said unto me, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, and come up unto me into the mount, and make thee an ark of wood. 2 And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark. 3 And I made an ark of shittim wood, and hewed two tables of stone like unto the first, and went up into the mount, having the two tables in mine hand. 4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me. 5 And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tables in the ark which I had made; and there they be, as the LORD commanded me.