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I have had sex before "marriage".

Everyone nowadays believes "marriage" is buying a ring, then put yourself on your knees for your wife, ask her to marry you. Then proceed for a super expensive or not so expensive preparation with all kinds of flowers, food and guests that you have or haven't seen before. Then loose weight to fit in in that cute little dress (that you spent some thousands of dollars) to have a good looking body for the marriage album photos. Sending nice looking invitations to everyone you know or not. Selecting a priest, pastor or any other person that can say the "holy words" which aren't in the bible whatsoever. Then wait 1 or 2 or more months for the "special day". Finally on the day, and now you can look at the guests face and let them admire the preparation that you selected so carefully. Follow a tradition which I don't know where it comes from, which says you can't see your spouse before walking down the aisle. Then cry because the flowers you ordered aren't light pink but light red. Hear the special and apparently caring speeches from some of the important guests. Then finally walk down the aisle and say the special words and kiss your spouse. Get showered with rice and now you have completed the ritual so that you can "finally" have sex.

I, instead, met my wife and we talked for months to get to know eachother. I gave thanks to God for this wonderful woman and said to Him that I wanted this woman to be my wife and that I would have no other. Later we consolidated the marriage with sexual relations for the first time as 2 virgins. I don't need rituals, I don't need human aprooval, all I need is to follow God's will and I have broken no law.

God created marriage and commanded us to marry because there was too much adultery, that each man and woman would have their own partner for life. We both do not intend to have other partners. I will later have a "party" or "wedding ceremony" in 3 or so years, when we get some money to go by. I will do this party for the sake of the people who will judge me for not "marrying".

I haven't read the entire Bible on this matter, but it felt like it was the right thing to do because God doesn't care about rituals but yes to love. I do remember some part in RUTH that talks about Boaz marrying to Ruth only by declaring in front of everyone that this woman will be his.

If there is a versicle in the Bible that directly condemns this kind of behavior please let me know.

 Well, many marriage ceremonies in the Bible, the wedding in Cana and such. Maybe in a way,  it is like ( sort of) baptism where you public profess Christ. Jesus told the woman at the well,  she had been married five times before, and  was not married to the man, she was with now, and Jesus told her to go and sin no more.

But I have no money for any kind of ceremony, if ceremonies are really necessary.

Quote from: Louis_Immanuel on Sat Mar 20, 2010 - 13:40:56
But I have no money for any kind of ceremony, if ceremonies are really necessary.
[/quote

I understand that, and all it takes is a pastor ( preferably) or a Judge at a Court house. Two witnesses, and you are good. Marry the woman, so, she will have respect, for herself and from others. I dare say, if you did these things it would cost fifty dollars at the very most. It is not the size of the ceremony, but, the content. There were always two witnesses in the bible, to oaths, and court. It is the right thing to do.

He does raise an interesting question, though.  Why can't a man and a woman just declare "we are now married" and that be it?

Quote from: Mere Nick on Sat Mar 20, 2010 - 14:36:33
He does raise an interesting question, though.  Why can't a man and a woman just declare "we are now married" and that be it?[/color]

Common law which is a marriage without a ceremony has been recognized by most states
for years.  All is required is a public declaration and consumation as man and wife.

Quote from: walker starr on Sat Mar 20, 2010 - 14:42:41

Quote from: Mere Nick on Sat Mar 20, 2010 - 14:36:33
He does raise an interesting question, though.  Why can't a man and a woman just declare "we are now married" and that be it?[/color]

Common law which is a marriage without a ceremony has been recognized by most states
for yars.  All is required is a public declaration and consumation as man and wife.

Aha!!! There you go.  That's the term I was thinking of but wasn't exactly sure.  It does seem a good idea to at least go turn in a piece of paper down at the courthouse for legal purposes, like where a spouse's signature might be needed if one is in the hospital, and stuff like that.

 Then why did Jesus say to the woman at the well she was not even married to the man she lived with now?

Quote from: walker starr on Sat Mar 20, 2010 - 14:42:41

Quote from: Mere Nick on Sat Mar 20, 2010 - 14:36:33
He does raise an interesting question, though.  Why can't a man and a woman just declare "we are now married" and that be it?[/color]

Common law which is a marriage without a ceremony has been recognized by most states
for years.  All is required is a public declaration and consumation as man and wife.

You have to be shacked up for a set period of time before being  considered married in states that recognize common law marriages.  Then if you  need to move to another that doesn't recognize common law marriage you are not considered married.  So, as you can see you must live in sin before you even make it to common law marriage and then that is not recognized in other states.

We areto live  like Christ and the church so is the example given to marriage that a husband is to love his wife as Christ loves the church and presents her without spot or blemish.  So, it seems if a christian wants to honor Christ that they ought to want to be legally married and present their marriage as testimony of Christ and the church without blemish or stain.

You don't need serious money to get married.  You can go to the courthouse and get married, then have a nice wedding at a later date if that is important to you.  If, you can't afford even the marriage license I feel pretty confident that your church or pastor can help you get the money up to pay for it.  I'm sure someone would be blessed to help you do the God honoring thing.

God Bless You Louis.

Quote from: poohgirl on Sat Mar 20, 2010 - 17:15:28

Quote from: walker starr on Sat Mar 20, 2010 - 14:42:41

Quote from: Mere Nick on Sat Mar 20, 2010 - 14:36:33
He does raise an interesting question, though.  Why can't a man and a woman just declare "we are now married" and that be it?[/color]

Common law which is a marriage without a ceremony has been recognized by most states
for years.  All is required is a public declaration and consumation as man and wife.

You have to be shacked up for a set period of time before being considered married in states that recognize common law marriages.  Then if you  need to move to another that doesn't recognize common law marriage you are not considered married.  So, as you can see you must live in sin before you even make it to common law marriage and then that is not recognized in other states.

We are to live  like Christ and the church so is the example given to marriage that a husband is to love his wife as Christ loves the church and presents her without spot or blemish.  So, it seems if a christian wants to honor Christ that they ought to want to be legally married and present their marriage as testimony of Christ and the church without blemish or stain.

You don't need serious money to get married.  You can go to the courthouse and get married, then have a nice wedding at a later date if that is important to you.  If, you can't afford even the marriage license I feel pretty confident that your church or pastor can help you get the money up to pay for it.  I'm sure someone would be blessed to help you do the God honoring thing.

God Bless You Louis.

Yep, this is right, and if a oath taking in front of witnesses, was not important, he would not have told the woman at the well not to be shacking up. come on, if it  was not even worth a bubble gum, and fr machine ring, and a ceremony, i would feel disrespected, and cheap. Now, i know your intentions are not bad, but maybe you are just a little confused. You seem like a nice man, so no commendation, but, do the right thing. Think about it also, if no ring every teenage boy or sexually charged man could just say that to Any women. It is all about commitment.

The story of the "Woman at the Well" says a lot in a very short span about what God wants for us...if people will take the time to pay attention.


The "Woman" which was a Samaritan was bantering with Jesus in rather a hostile fashion...trying hard to annoy him to where he wouldn't speak to her anymore....cause she already was having a bad day. (getting water in mid day...not a good thing)

I won't get into all of the specifics of what she said to annoy Jesus or what all was important...but

Jesus said that he did know that the guy she was living with....meaning just shacked up with...was not her husband. Meaning that she was an adulteress....But that Jesus, this Jewish rabbi, was speaking to her anyway.

God has also said that we need to respect the Governments which He has placed over us.

It isn't so much for man made ceremonies as it is for protection...of both your spouse and you.  There are legal ramifications to getting married...and you or she might need those one day.

So...get a justice of the peace wedding...or a very simple service. It is in your and her best interest to do so.

Concerning Opening Post:

Marriage is predominantly a personal domestic affair but it is also under limited Civil Authority.  It is not under religious authority (except in countries where the two overlap).  In the OT, marriage was predominantly a domestic, family affair, but it was under civil authority also.  When a couple married, a marriage covenant/contract was established.  The marriage was actually officially recognized whenever the bride-price was paid, some times years before the ceremony or they were intimate.  The foundation of marriage is the marriage covenant, however it is established in whatever culture a couple is part of.

In modern American culture, a couple is not married until the civil papers have been duly authorized and signed by all parties - couple, witnesses, and civil servant (whether judge, notary, or pastor). 

Is God upset and bent out of shape about you taking each other as husband and wife without having fulfilled the civil part of the marriage?  I don't believe so, but I do encourage you to fulfill the civil part of it.  Such will honor the Lord and join your lives together legally.  Scripture certainly encourages us as Christians to live submitted (in a spirit of cooperation and humility) to civil authorities as long as such civil authority does not contradict God. 

I encourage you to get a marriage license as soon as possible and be married by whoever you'd like to marry you.  My brother and his wife married and the court house, after they had lived together for a year or two.  I was a witness there.  And then later they had a ceremony the weekend of our yearly family reunion, and I did the ceremony.  There was no need for me to be licensed in his state because the legal aspect of their marriage was taken care of at the courthouse at very little cost.  And as John mentioned above, the legal aspects of your marriage are very important.

If you have not been through the required marriage ceremony for the country that you live in then you are not married. People will always look for loopholes not to get married, or to have sex outside marriage,but the Bible is 100% clear that we are to marry before sex.Nowhere does it say that we can live together outside marriage.
Sex before marriage can be forgiven, if you are repentant, but you do need to admit that you did wrong and then God will forgive you. Ttrying to justify it to God wont wash.He isnt stupid.

Quote from: Louis_Immanuel on Sat Mar 20, 2010 - 13:08:56
I have had sex before "marriage".

Everyone nowadays believes "marriage" is buying a ring, then put yourself on your knees for your wife, ask her to marry you. Then proceed for a super expensive or not so expensive preparation with all kinds of flowers, food and guests that you have or haven't seen before. Then loose weight to fit in in that cute little dress (that you spent some thousands of dollars) to have a good looking body for the marriage album photos. Sending nice looking invitations to everyone you know or not. Selecting a priest, pastor or any other person that can say the "holy words" which aren't in the bible whatsoever. Then wait 1 or 2 or more months for the "special day". Finally on the day, and now you can look at the guests face and let them admire the preparation that you selected so carefully. Follow a tradition which I don't know where it comes from, which says you can't see your spouse before walking down the aisle. Then cry because the flowers you ordered aren't light pink but light red. Hear the special and apparently caring speeches from some of the important guests. Then finally walk down the aisle and say the special words and kiss your spouse. Get showered with rice and now you have completed the ritual so that you can "finally" have sex.

I, instead, met my wife and we talked for months to get to know eachother. I gave thanks to God for this wonderful woman and said to Him that I wanted this woman to be my wife and that I would have no other. Later we consolidated the marriage with sexual relations for the first time as 2 virgins. I don't need rituals, I don't need human aprooval, all I need is to follow God's will and I have broken no law.

God created marriage and commanded us to marry because there was too much adultery, that each man and woman would have their own partner for life. We both do not intend to have other partners. I will later have a "party" or "wedding ceremony" in 3 or so years, when we get some money to go by. I will do this party for the sake of the people who will judge me for not "marrying".

I haven't read the entire Bible on this matter, but it felt like it was the right thing to do because God doesn't care about rituals but yes to love. I do remember some part in RUTH that talks about Boaz marrying to Ruth only by declaring in front of everyone that this woman will be his.

If there is a versicle in the Bible that directly condemns this kind of behavior please let me know.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only thing you two had was fornication .
You can walk out on each other and don't even have to file for divorce because no marriage has taken place.

you have no legal piece of paper no certificate of marriage . 



If we believed what you think than these verses would have no meaning .

Hebrews 13:4

4Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.



Isaiah 50
Israel's Sin and the Servant's Obedience
1 This is what the LORD says:
      "Where is your mother's certificate of divorce
      with which I sent her away?
      Or to which of my creditors
      did I sell you?
      Because of your sins you were sold;
      because of your transgressions your mother was sent away.



Matthew 5:31

Divorce
31"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.




Jeremiah 3:8
I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery.

Quote from: Louis_Immanuel on Sat Mar 20, 2010 - 13:40:56
But I have no money for any kind of ceremony, if ceremonies are really necessary.

A CEREMONY ,JUST AS BINDING, WITHOUT THE THRILLS AND FRILLS can be had for about ten bucks with a justuce
  of the peace.  Actually there are plemty of pastors that willl do it for nothing.  Not having money
  for a ceremony is no excuse.  If one really wants marriage.

As Christians we should take that extra step to obtain a marriage licence. Otherwise, we become a stumbling block to other Christians and our conduct does not become a cause of reproach among non believers.

Quote from: brouije on Fri Apr 02, 2010 - 20:04:18
As Christians we should take that extra step to obtain a marriage licence. Otherwise, we become a stumbling block to other Christians and our conduct does not become a cause of reproach among non believers.

Plus the fact that the Bible tells us to get married before sex.

 Oh my goodness let's not beat around the bush. You feel conviction, or you would not ask, and brother it is the right, noble, thing to do.

Until Jesus comes again, people will look for all sorts of excuses and loopholes to have sex outside marriage.

I have an ex sister in law who says she is a Christian, she goes to church but she lives with her boyfriend who isnt a Christian,and has done for 4 years. She recently left him becuase he wouldnt marry her but she hated being alone.She then convinced herself that God had led her to go back to him and so now she is back there living with him again. I told her that God would never do that because a) he isnt a believer and b) sex outside marriage is worng. I suggested that she read what the Bible says about it and that she goes and talks to her pastor about it but she wont listen and is back with him, for good I think.

I do think God convicted her and that is why she left,and I told her this, but her fear of being alone and single has led her back and she justifies it by saying that God is in her returning. I dont know if her pastor knows what she is doing, or any of her Christian friends there, but why havent they challenged her on this?I cant do any more as she has made her decision but I do know that one day she will regret it.

I know that marriage is the right thing to do, but she won't marry me yet, not because she's unsure, but because now we live appart, in two diferent countries and we can only see eachother on holidays. And she also would like a more romantic way to start a marriage rather than "God demands that I marry you now, so let's marry.". I feel confused and I don't know what to do from this point   

Maybe I should say again that she is NOT a christian.

If she isnt a christian and you are, then you need to seperate anyway. The Bible tells us not to be uneaqually yoked to an unbeliever.  If she wont marry you, then dont have sex, its as easy as that. If she remains an unbeliever then you would be foolish to marry her. God gives us warnings for a reason, and he gives us boundaries for a reason. He will bless you if you put Him first, and do what he says.

We had sex and therefore we are ONE now. We are married to the eyes of God.
I desperatly try to tell her Jesus message now.
I don't want to believe that such a sweet person needs to be destroyed just yet..

This could be one of the most imporant parts of my life, I will pray to God for a solution and to have mercy on me and my wife. I beg to all of you to help me in this time of need. Please.

Quote from: Louis_Immanuel on Thu Apr 22, 2010 - 14:26:03
Maybe I should say again that she is NOT a christian.

Well Louis, you have a problem already, being unequally yoked. You have to choose God or her, because that is the way things would always be anyway, being married to an unbeliever. Louis, God ways and word is always right, and he commands us to to be unequally yoked with unbelievers. Read God's word find the right path.

Quote from: Louis_Immanuel on Thu Apr 22, 2010 - 17:43:01
We had sex and therefore we are ONE now. We are married to the eyes of God.
I desperately try to tell her Jesus message now.
I don't want to believe that such a sweet person needs to be destroyed just yet..

You are not married, you have had sex before marriage (called fornication in the Bible). Do you want to be told the truth or do you want to keep believing a lie? You are single and wont be married until you get married.

She is an unbeliever. As you have gone as far as to have sex, I am assuming that she knows that you are a Christian,and presumably you have told her about your faith.You can do that, but marrying her is another thing entirely and something that you mustn't do unless she does become a Believer. If she decides to come to Jesus then thats really good, you can get married and be obeying God, but if she doesn't then you cannot marry her if you want to obey God.
Paul tells those who cannot stop themselves sexually to get married before they have sex. If we are married to a person just because we have sex then he would have said so. I have no reason to lie to you. Honestly, you arent married but you ARE sinning. Its your chocie as to whether you carry on sinning or not as far as I can see. God cant bless a relationship that is in sin. If you repent, tell her more about Jesus and wait to see what she will do,stop having sex, then he will bless you. If she refuses to become a believer at this time in her life, then you cant marry her.

It depends on whether you want to believe what most Christians will tell you or not.

Quote from: Louis_Immanuel on Thu Apr 22, 2010 - 17:55:04
This could be one of the most imporant parts of my life, I will pray to God for a solution and to have mercy on me and my wife. I beg to all of you to help me in this time of need. Please.

We are helping you Louis by telling you what the Bible says. At the moment, you are believing what you want to believe. The Bible speaks quite a lot about sex before marriage being wrong and also is clear about not being with an unbeliever. I really hope you will listen and look these things up for yourself. Go and see your pastor if you have one, and ask Him what the Bible says about sex, marriage and marrying an unbeliever.

chosenone, do you have a calender handy?  If so, you should mark the date...

Louis, chosenone is right.  We should not be yoked with unbelievers.  God gives us this instruction not to limit us, but save us grief.

I dated a girl in college and we were very close to being intimate.  She was not a believer and had some beliefs I had trouble with it.  It made for a rocky relationship.  Fortunately, we were only dating and ending the relationship while painful for me, was not a big issue.  Had we been married it would have been much worse.

I have also tried the "well, I will convert her" approach with another girl and that did not work either.  She faked conversion and told me as much after we broke up.

Finally, I found a good christian women and we are together nearly a decade now.  I would not be complete without her. 

Be patient.  God has the right woman for you.

Bond

Quote from: BondServant on Fri Apr 23, 2010 - 07:54:29
chosenone, do you have a calender handy?  If so, you should mark the date...

Louis, chosenone is right.  We should not be yoked with unbelievers.  God gives us this instruction not to limit us, but save us grief.

I dated a girl in college and we were very close to being intimate.  She was not a believer and had some beliefs I had trouble with it.  It made for a rocky relationship.  Fortunately, we were only dating and ending the relationship while painful for me, was not a big issue.  Had we been married it would have been much worse.

I have also tried the "well, I will convert her" approach with another girl and that did not work either.  She faked conversion and told me as much after we broke up.

Finally, I found a good christian women and we are together nearly a decade now.  I would not be complete without her. 

Be patient.  God has the right woman for you.

Bond

  PRAISE THE LORD. Bond and I actually agree on something. 

Last night I preached the gospel in it's true form for 4 hours to her and she was speechless on how she was deceived all this time from the world and it's ruler the devil. Today I'm going to see how she is reacting to it because the preaching was over the internet, beacause she is currently in another country. Please pray with me so that her eyes and ears open and stay open. We must not give up on anyone. God is trying to save us grief when saying that we shouldn't join with unbelievers, but I will remain firm on the Lord, and if it's harder to stay firm on the Lord when I am with her I'll just have to pray harder and ask God to help me in this quest. I will not let her or anyone move me aside from the path the Lord has for me.

Everyone in this forum says "Just leave her", but you should know it's not as simple as that.
I am already bonded in flesh with her and I don't want to break the link God created without a strong answer from God. May God strike me with an obvious and terrible answer if I'm wrong, but if this is His will then I will follow it.
I'm not trying to justify my actions, I am asking for God in prayer for the right answer, and if this was the right answer it would have stroke me so hard I would just do it.

Quote from: Louis_Immanuel on Fri Apr 23, 2010 - 08:40:49
Everyone in this forum says "Just leave her", but you should know it's not as simple as that.
I am already bonded in flesh with her and I don't want to break the link God created without a strong answer from God. May God strike me with an obvious and terrible answer if I'm wrong, but if this is His will then I will follow it.
I'm not trying to justify my actions, I am asking for God in prayer for the right answer, and if this was the right answer it would have stroke me so hard I would just do it.

Louis His will is NOT for you to have sex with a non believer who you are not even married to. God has not joined you to her, she isnt your wife, you are committing fornication.
Why do you need to ask God when he has already answered you in the Bible?
He tells us not have sex with anyone before marriage, and he tells us not be with an unbeliever.You have done, and are doing, both. Theres your answer,you dont need to even pray, but sadly you dont want to see it.

Quote from: Louis_Immanuel on Fri Apr 23, 2010 - 08:34:35
Last night I preached the gospel in it's true form for 4 hours to her and she was speechless on how she was deceived all this time from the world and it's ruler the devil. Today I'm going to see how she is reacting to it because the preaching was over the internet, beacause she is currently in another country. Please pray with me so that her eyes and ears open and stay open. We must not give up on anyone. God is trying to save us grief when saying that we shouldn't join with unbelievers, but I will remain firm on the Lord, and if it's harder to stay firm on the Lord when I am with her I'll just have to pray harder and ask God to help me in this quest. I will not let her or anyone move me aside from the path the Lord has for me.

If she becomes a believer, then you can ask her to marry you, and theh  if she says yes, you can get married and THEN have sex. All the right way round. I hope that she will listen to you and turn to Jesus, but she may not,and you have to realise that. Part of your witness to her is to remain pure until marriage and to tell her that what you did was wrong and ask for her forgiveness and of course Gods forgiveness. I pray that she will come to know God as her heavenly father.

Louis,

No one person on this Earth can give you the answer you are searching for. Only God can do that. It seems like you posted this topic looking for someone to give you the answer. Everyone here can offer guidance, but the answer can only come from God.

There is a binding between two people when sex is involved. It is definitely not a marriage. But as anyone who has ever had sex knows, the emotions that come attached with it are so very strong...and can be so easily misunderstood. Some people have sex with multiple partners throughout their life and can become nonchalant about it. I believe this is the main reason that God wanted the gift of making love to be within the boundaries of a marriage. There's no room for misunderstanding. Sometimes our emotions can lead us to think we feel more deeply about a person than we really do because of the sex that has been shared. If you are married to that person, there's no misleading emotions.

I can truly understand how it would be hard for you to walk away from someone that has touched your heart. But from your posts, it sounds like there are many factors that hinder the relationship. Long distance relationships are just hard....for anybody! I commend your persistence in ministering to this person. I do not believe that God would ever look at you sharing His Word with someone as a bad thing. I just think it will be a hard road for you.

I don't know if any of this helps you. I followed this post and wasn't going to post anything. But I felt a strong conviction after reading the last few posts to tell you DON'T EVER STOP PRAYING! Pray for the woman you speak of, pray for yourself. Never stop praying! I pray everyday for all those around me and for posters on this forum. The best prayer is "Thy will be done." If you pray for this, God will show the way. Sometimes he does hit us over the head with a sledgehammer if we need it.

Louis another thing that struck me, how well do you know this lady?How much time have you ever actually spent with her? How do you know even if she is a christian,that she is even the girl that God wants for you?
The questions that you ask are answered in the Bible, but only God can tell you if she is the one you are to marry.