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This is kindof backwards.

So the Church says, "Hey I'm not saying you can't get married but as long as you're wearing that uniform you better not plan on it."?

I undertsand celibicacy is a discipline. I understand that being a single priest allows a man to devote all his time to his faith.

But didn't Peter marry and have children?

Quote from: LightHammer on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 11:15:02
This is kindof backwards.

So the Church says, "Hey I'm not saying you can't get married but as long as you're wearing that uniform you better not plan on it."?

I undertsand celibicacy is a discipline. I understand that being a single priest allows a man to devote all his time to his faith.

But didn't Peter marry and have children?

The way the Catholic priesthood works (universally) is this: If a man wishes to be ordained, he knowingly and willingly rejects his right to become married to another human person.  This is because a minister's ordination in effect marries him to God.  It is a here-and-now reflection of what life will be like in heaven.  In heaven, no one is married to another person; we are all married to God.

That does not mean that a man who is already married cannot enter into the priesthood.  It is simply a discipline of the Latin Rite that only single men can become priests.  In the Eastern Rites, married men can become priests.  But once they are priests (or deacons, throughout the Church, Latin or Eastern rites) they cannot then become married (receive the sacrament of matrimony) unless they are first laicized by the Church.  Thus a married man can become a priest (except in the Latin rite, because of the current discipline) and a married man can become a deacon, but a priest or a deacon cannot then receive the sacrament of matrimony (go from an unmarried state to a married state) unless they request to be laicized first.  And that is because when they ordained, they become a mystical bride of Christ.

The Church does not forbid marriage.  I am Catholic, and I was married in the Catholic Church.  If the Catholic Church forbid marriage then I could not become married.  That is what the "doctrine of demons" scripture was talking about.  If I was a Gnostic, and I wanted to become married, they would say that I could not.  

The Syrian School of Gnosticism taught:

QuoteThe opposition between the good God and the World-Creator is not eternal or cosmogonic, though there is strong ethical opposition to Jehovah the God of the Jews. He is the last of the seven angels who fashioned this world out of eternally pre-existent matter. The demiurgic angels, attempting to create man, created but a miserable worm, to which the Good God, however, gave the spark of divine life. The rule of the god of the Jews must pass away, for the good God calls us to his own immediate service through Christ his Son. We obey the Supreme Deity by abstaining from flesh meat and marriage, and by leading an ascetic life.

The New Testament is written Sacred Tradition, set to pen in part to fight against the Gnostic heresy, which claimed its own "secret knowledge", its own "Sacred Tradition" that was different from the Sacred Tradition of the Apostles.

If one states that by saying that a person who is consecrated to God being forbidden to marry is a "doctrine of demons", then he must deal with the following passage, where God forbids Jeremiah to marry:

Quote from: Jeremiah 16:1-2This message came to me from the LORD: Do not marry any woman; you shall not have sons or daughters in this place,

Peter was married before being called.  There is no conflict with Peter's married state before his calling and Catholic doctrine.

QuoteThe way the Catholic priesthood works (universally) is this: If a man wishes to be ordained, he knowingly and willingly rejects his right to become married to another human person.  This is because a minister's ordination in effect marries him to God.  It is a here-and-now reflection of what life will be like in heaven.  In heaven, no one is married to another person; we are all married to God.

That does not mean that a man who is already married cannot enter into the priesthood.  It is simply a discipline of the Latin Rite that only single men can become priests.  In the Eastern Rites, married men can become priests.  But once they are priests (or deacons, throughout the Church, Latin or Eastern rites) they cannot then become married (receive the sacrament of matrimony) unless they are first laicized by the Church.  Thus a married man can become a priest (except in the Latin rite, because of the current discipline) and a married man can become a deacon, but a priest or a deacon cannot then receive the sacrament of matrimony (go from an unmarried state to a married state) unless they request to be laicized first.  And that is because when they ordained, they become a mystical bride of Christ.

The Church does not forbid marriage.  I am Catholic, and I was married in the Catholic Church.  If the Catholic Church forbid marriage then I could not become married.  That is what the "doctrine of demons" scripture was talking about.  If I was a Gnostic, and I wanted to become married, they would say that I could not. 

This is a flawed concept because the Church( the universal community of believers) as a whole is God's one bride. It is evident when you look at the prophetical writings of scripture. The great beasts or women described bringing about catstrophic changes to the world decribe a multitude of people. Either a mighty nation or a great gathering. God does not marry each individual He marries the entire congregation and to separate from that congregation by abandoning one's faith is separate what makes one united with God.

Quote from: BondServant on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 11:04:23
Catholica, Angelos, if you wish to defend the doctrines of the catholic church, it can best be done with scripture.  Personal attacks only hinder your argument, AND they violate the forum rules.

Bond

Since the Catholic Church follows the Bible AND Apostolic Tradition, She can't always be defended by scripture alone. That is the problem that most Protestants have.

QuoteQuote from: Jeremiah 16:1-2
This message came to me from the LORD: Do not marry any woman; you shall not have sons or daughters in this place,

Peter was married before being called.  There is no conflict with Peter's married state before his calling and Catholic doctrine.

You isolated a few words from the entirety of God's warning. God wasn't forbidding marraige because of Jeremiah's commissioning as a minister but to protect them and their offspring from the land's affliciation of disease and death

Quote from: Jaime on Thu Sep 23, 2010 - 21:52:56
Why will he not marry, if not forbidden to by the church?

In the verse you quoted, the next verse says it is better though to marry than to burn with desire, as may have been the case with quite a few unmarried priests over the years.

Actually in that same Chapter 7, St. Paul gives his reasons why it is good to be single: 

1 Corinthians 7:32-33  I would like you to be free of anxieties.  An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord.  But a married man is anxious about the things of the world, how e may please his wife. 

Does this mean that St. Paul is forbidding marriage?  No, of course not.  But he does encourage a single life especially those who want to dedicate their life to serving the Lord.  Therefore, the Catholic Church does not allow their priest to marry so they can devote their full time to serving God. 

Quote from: Selene on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 18:27:30

Quote from: Jaime on Thu Sep 23, 2010 - 21:52:56
Why will he not marry, if not forbidden to by the church?

In the verse you quoted, the next verse says it is better though to marry than to burn with desire, as may have been the case with quite a few unmarried priests over the years.

Actually in that same Chapter 7, St. Paul gives his reasons why it is good to be single: 

1 Corinthians 7:32-33  I would like you to be free of anxieties.  An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord.  But a married man is anxious about the things of the world, how e may please his wife. 

Does this mean that St. Paul is forbidding marriage?  No, of course not.  But he does encourage a single life especially those who want to dedicate their life to serving the Lord.  Therefore, the Catholic Church does not allow their priest to marry so they can devote their full time to serving God. 

And the Catholic Church does not have the authority to forbade a priest from following God's very first commandment. His very first charge to Adam and Eve

Quote from: LightHammer on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 18:38:09
And the Catholic Church does not have the authority to forbade a priest from following God's very first commandment. His very first charge to Adam and Eve

The Catholic Church does not forbid a priest from marriage.  The priest knows that if he wants to marry, he will leave the priesthood and marry the woman of his dreams.   

Quote from: Selene on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 18:51:08

Quote from: LightHammer on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 18:38:09
And the Catholic Church does not have the authority to forbade a priest from following God's very first commandment. His very first charge to Adam and Eve

The Catholic Church does not forbid a priest from marriage.  The priest knows that if he wants to marry, he will leave the priesthood and marry the woman of his dreams.   

To be an ordained priest in my Church you must adhere to a higher standard and discipline by forsaking all partners and devoting your life entirely to God.

That sounds all fine and dandy but a man and a woman are a complete set. God said so Himself. When a man leaves his home he is to find himself a woman and become whole. The relationship between a man and woman unified under the hand of God is akin to a great bridge and its foundation. One can not flourish fully unless they are paired with God's chosen whole and for every man that chosen whole lies with a woman. God's bride is being prepared by those who have been commissioned to help gather her up.

What you have in the Catholic Church is incomplete parts, powerful disciplined righteous parts leading a mass that would be far better off if it leaders were complete and whole.

Quote from: LightHammer on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 19:04:53

Quote from: Selene on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 18:51:08

Quote from: LightHammer on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 18:38:09
And the Catholic Church does not have the authority to forbade a priest from following God's very first commandment. His very first charge to Adam and Eve

The Catholic Church does not forbid a priest from marriage.  The priest knows that if he wants to marry, he will leave the priesthood and marry the woman of his dreams.   

To be an ordained priest in my Church you must adhere to a higher standard and discipline by forsaking all partners and devoting your life entirely to God.

That sounds all fine and dandy but a man and a woman are a complete set. God said so Himself. When a man leaves his home he is to find himself a woman and become whole. The relationship between a man and woman unified under the hand of God is akin to a great bridge and its foundation. One can not flourish fully unless they are paired with God's chosen whole and for every man that chosen whole lies with a woman. God's bride is being prepared by those who have been commissioned to help gather her up.

What you have in the Catholic Church is incomplete parts, powerful disciplined righteous parts leading a mass that would be far better off if it leaders were complete and whole.

GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!

Catholics??? What rights do you have? 1Corinthians 9:1-6 Who said, If you marry you cannot be a priest?

That kind of wisdom does not come from God!!!

Quote from: LightHammer on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 19:04:53

Quote from: Selene on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 18:51:08

Quote from: LightHammer on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 18:38:09
And the Catholic Church does not have the authority to forbade a priest from following God's very first commandment. His very first charge to Adam and Eve

The Catholic Church does not forbid a priest from marriage.  The priest knows that if he wants to marry, he will leave the priesthood and marry the woman of his dreams.    

To be an ordained priest in my Church you must adhere to a higher standard and discipline by forsaking all partners and devoting your life entirely to God.

That sounds all fine and dandy but a man and a woman are a complete set. God said so Himself. When a man leaves his home he is to find himself a woman and become whole. The relationship between a man and woman unified under the hand of God is akin to a great bridge and its foundation. One can not flourish fully unless they are paired with God's chosen whole and for every man that chosen whole lies with a woman. God's bride is being prepared by those who have been commissioned to help gather her up.

What you have in the Catholic Church is incomplete parts, powerful disciplined righteous parts leading a mass that would be far better off if it leaders were complete and whole.

The unity of man and woman mentioned in Genesis is the foretaste of our true calling, which is a unity between man and God, between Christ and His Church.  The beginning of the Bible (Genesis) points and prepares us to a much better one, which is found in the end of the Bible (Revelations), the unity between God and His people.  Jesus said that in Heaven, man and woman shall not marry nor be married (See Matthew 22:30).  Why?  Because we are called to a much better union.  We are called to be one with God.  Our happiness is not found in our wives or husbands.  True happiness is found only in God.  Therefore,  because our leaders seek this union with God and only God, our leaders are complete and whole.

Revelations 19:7  Let us rejoice and be glad and give Him glory.  For the wedding day of the Lamb has come, and His bride has made herself ready.  

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 19:18:03
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!

Catholics??? What rights do you have? 1Corinthians 9:1-6 Who said, If you marry you cannot be a priest?

That kind of wisdom does not come from God!!!

Tell that to the Apostles who left EVERYTHING including their families to follow Christ.

Mark 10:28  And Peter began to say unto him: Behold, we have left all things, and have followed thee.

Quote from: Selene on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 19:25:42

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 19:18:03
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!

Catholics??? What rights do you have? 1Corinthians 9:1-6 Who said, If you marry you cannot be a priest?

That kind of wisdom does not come from God!!!

Tell that to the Apostles who left EVERYTHING including their families to follow Christ.

Mark 10:28  And Peter began to say unto him: Behold, we have left all things, and have followed thee.

Selene it almost sounds like you approve these so called ordained priests taking little boys and little girls into back rooms because they have not used their God given right to take wives for themselves! 1Corinthians 7:2

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 19:35:44

Quote from: Selene on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 19:25:42

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 19:18:03
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!

Catholics??? What rights do you have? 1Corinthians 9:1-6 Who said, If you marry you cannot be a priest?

That kind of wisdom does not come from God!!!

Tell that to the Apostles who left EVERYTHING including their families to follow Christ.

Mark 10:28  And Peter began to say unto him: Behold, we have left all things, and have followed thee.

Selene it almost sounds like you approve these so called ordained priests taking little boys and little girls into back rooms because they have not used their God given right to take wives for themselves! 1Corinthians 7:2

Why do you judge the entire priesthood to the actions of a few misguided priests?

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 19:35:44

Quote from: Selene on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 19:25:42

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 19:18:03
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!

Catholics??? What rights do you have? 1Corinthians 9:1-6 Who said, If you marry you cannot be a priest?

That kind of wisdom does not come from God!!!

Tell that to the Apostles who left EVERYTHING including their families to follow Christ.

Mark 10:28  And Peter began to say unto him: Behold, we have left all things, and have followed thee.

Selene it almost sounds like you approve these so called ordained priests taking little boys and little girls into back rooms because they have not used their God given right to take wives for themselves! 1Corinthians 7:2

Yea whoever you are your attitude and words are not welcomed here. You can not post among this community of believers with such crude and irrelevant slander. It will not be tolerated. Here in this forum we adhere to higher standard when debating one another. You will adhere to that standard or you will be reported.

Here you go Selene...

1Timothy 4:1-6

If its the Catholic churches policy that you cannot be an ordained minister if you are married and or if you do marry you must leave the church then KNOW THIS...That kind of teaching comes from Satan and not from God.

Accept the scriptures given to you lighthammer which can save you from the fowlers snare run rampant in the papacy as if the Pope is God and what he says goes!

It is Gods word that endures forever!

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 19:42:55
Here you go Selene...

1Timothy 4:1-6

If its the Catholic churches policy that you cannot be an ordained minister if you are married and or if you do marry you must leave the church then KNOW THIS...That kind of teaching comes from Satan and not from God.

Visionary, this was already addressed.   The Catholic Church does not forbid marriage because if a priest wishes to marry, he can marry by leaving the priesthood and marrying a woman.  We do not condemn a priest for leaving the priesthood for marriage.  

Remember, it was St. Paul who encouraged people to remain single.  Of course, St. Paul is not forbidding marriage here.  He is simply saying that being single is good.  The Apostles also gave up everything including their families to follow Jesus.  Our priests chose to do the same.  To seek union with God and only God is what they are called to do.  If you think that you can only find happiness in marriage with a wife or husband, then you are fooling yourself.  True happiness comes only with being in union with God.  

Deacons and overseers:

1Timothy 3:1-15 Must be the husband of one wife...He must manage his own family well...if anyone cannot manage his own family how can he manage Gods household...

Titus 1:6-16 Elders must be the husband of one wife...

Now... 1Thessalonians 5:12

Please do read the scriptures for yourself and test your churches policies.

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 20:01:21
Deacons and overseers:

1Timothy 3:1-15 Must be the husband of one wife...He must manage his own family well...if anyone cannot manage his own family how can he manage Gods household...

Titus 1:6-16 Elders must be the husband of one wife...

Now... 1Thessalonians 5:12

Please do read the scriptures for yourself and test your churches policies.

So, are you now saying that we should FORCE our priests and deacons to marry? Is this how you read this biblical verse? 

Quote from: Selene on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 19:54:53

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 19:42:55
Here you go Selene...

1Timothy 4:1-6

If its the Catholic churches policy that you cannot be an ordained minister if you are married and or if you do marry you must leave the church then KNOW THIS...That kind of teaching comes from Satan and not from God.

Visionary, this was already addressed.   The Catholic Church does not forbid marriage because if a priest wishes to marry, he can marry by leaving the priesthood and marrying a woman.  We do not condemn a priest for leaving the priesthood for marriage. 

Remember, it was St. Paul who encouraged people to remain single.  Of course, St. Paul is not forbidding marriage here.  He is simply saying that being single is good.  The Apostles also gave up everything including their families to follow Jesus.  Our priests chose to do the same.  To seek union with God and only God is what they are called to do.  If you think that you can only find happiness in marriage with a wife or husband, then you are fooling yourself.  True happiness comes only with being in union with God. 

Show us Selene where God says if you marry you must leave the priesthood?

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 20:04:11

Quote from: Selene on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 19:54:53

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 19:42:55
Here you go Selene...

1Timothy 4:1-6

If its the Catholic churches policy that you cannot be an ordained minister if you are married and or if you do marry you must leave the church then KNOW THIS...That kind of teaching comes from Satan and not from God.

Visionary, this was already addressed.   The Catholic Church does not forbid marriage because if a priest wishes to marry, he can marry by leaving the priesthood and marrying a woman.  We do not condemn a priest for leaving the priesthood for marriage.  

Remember, it was St. Paul who encouraged people to remain single.  Of course, St. Paul is not forbidding marriage here.  He is simply saying that being single is good.  The Apostles also gave up everything including their families to follow Jesus.  Our priests chose to do the same.  To seek union with God and only God is what they are called to do.  If you think that you can only find happiness in marriage with a wife or husband, then you are fooling yourself.  True happiness comes only with being in union with God.  

Show us Selene where God says if you marry you must leave the priesthood?

1 Corinthians 7:32-38  I should like you to be free of anxieties.  An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord.  But a married man is anxious about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, and he is divided.......If anyone thinks he is behaving improperly toward his virgin an dif a critical moment has come and so it has to be, let him do as he wishes.  He is committing no sin; let them get married.  The one who stands firm in his resolve, however, who is not under compulsion but has power over his own will, and has made up his mind to keep his virgin, will be doing well.  So then, the one who marries his virgin does well; the one who does not marry will do better

Quote from: Selene on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 20:16:03

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 20:04:11

Quote from: Selene on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 19:54:53

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 19:42:55
Here you go Selene...

1Timothy 4:1-6

If its the Catholic churches policy that you cannot be an ordained minister if you are married and or if you do marry you must leave the church then KNOW THIS...That kind of teaching comes from Satan and not from God.

Visionary, this was already addressed.   The Catholic Church does not forbid marriage because if a priest wishes to marry, he can marry by leaving the priesthood and marrying a woman.  We do not condemn a priest for leaving the priesthood for marriage. 

Remember, it was St. Paul who encouraged people to remain single.  Of course, St. Paul is not forbidding marriage here.  He is simply saying that being single is good.  The Apostles also gave up everything including their families to follow Jesus.  Our priests chose to do the same.  To seek union with God and only God is what they are called to do.  If you think that you can only find happiness in marriage with a wife or husband, then you are fooling yourself.  True happiness comes only with being in union with God. 

Show us Selene where God says if you marry you must leave the priesthood?

1 Corinthians 7:32-38  I should like you to be free of anxieties.  An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord.  But a married man is anxious about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, and he is divided.......If anyone thinks he is behaving improperly toward his virgin an dif a critical moment has come and so it has to be, let him do as he wishes.  He is committing no sin; let them get married.  The one who stands firm in his resolve, however, who is not under compulsion but has power over his own will, and has made up his mind to keep his virgin, will be doing well.  So then, the one who marries his virgin does well; the one who does not marry will do better. 

Yes. I know that verse but it does not say what you claim comes from God Selene. We will wait until you find us the scripture that says...he can marry by leaving the priesthood and marrying a woman

Can I save you some time Selene?

You will not find it in Gods word anywhere from beginning to end that a man must leave the priesthood if he marries!

A man may marry anyone he wants! A priest may marry anyone he wants!

God blessed them and said, BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY. Genesis 1:28

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 20:20:02
Yes. I know that verse but it does not say what you claim comes from God Selene. We will wait until you find us the scripture that says...he can marry by leaving the priesthood and marrying a woman

It does come from God, Visionary because this is what our priests who are called by God to follow.  Every Catholic priest made this choice.  It was not forced upon him.  By the way, you have not answered any of my questions.  Do you honestlly think that true happiness is found in marriage with a man or woman?  Do you not know that true happiness can only be found by being one and in union with God?  Our priests chose to seek this kind of union with God rather than with a woman.  

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 20:23:58
Can I save you some time Selene?

You will not find it in Gods word anywhere from beginning to end!

A man may marry anyone he wants! A priest may marry anyone he wants!

God blessed them and said, BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY. Genesis 1:28

The unity of man and woman mentioned in Genesis is the foretaste of our true calling, which is a unity between man and God, between Christ and His Church.  The beginning of the Bible (Genesis) points and prepares us to a much better one, which is found in the end of the Bible (Revelations), the unity between God and His people.  Jesus said that in Heaven, man and woman shall not marry nor be married (See Matthew 22:30).  Why?  Because we are called to a much better union.  We are called to be one with God.  Our happiness is not found in our wives or husbands.  True happiness is found only in God.  Therefore,  because our leaders seek this union with God and only God, our leaders are complete and whole.

Revelations 19:7  Let us rejoice and be glad and give Him glory.  For the wedding day of the Lamb has come, and His bride has made herself ready. 

Quote from: Selene on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 20:26:49

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 20:23:58
Can I save you some time Selene?

You will not find it in Gods word anywhere from beginning to end that a man must leave the priesthood if he marries!

A man may marry anyone he wants! A priest may marry anyone he wants!

God blessed them and said, BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY. Genesis 1:28

The unity of man and woman mentioned in Genesis is the foretaste of our true calling, which is a unity between man and God, between Christ and His Church.  The beginning of the Bible (Genesis) points and prepares us to a much better one, which is found in the end of the Bible (Revelations), the unity between God and His people.  Jesus said that in Heaven, man and woman shall not marry nor be married (See Matthew 22:30).  Why?  Because we are called to a much better union.  We are called to be one with God.  Our happiness is not found in our wives or husbands.  True happiness is found only in God.  Therefore,  because our leaders seek this union with God and only God, our leaders are complete and whole.

Revelations 19:7  Let us rejoice and be glad and give Him glory.  For the wedding day of the Lamb has come, and His bride has made herself ready. 

What does that have to do with the Catholic churches policy in forcing priest out of church if they marry a woman???

NOTHING!!!!

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 20:31:24

What does that have to do with the Catholic churches policy in forcing priest out of church if they marry a woman???

NOTHING!!!!

Visionary, the Catholic Church does not force a priest to marry or not to marry.  A person who desires to be a priest already knows that he must give up all to follow Christ.  

Mark 10:28  And Peter began to say unto him: Behold, we have left all things, and have followed thee.

If a priest decides that he wants to marry, he can.  He is not forced to marry.  He is not forced in any way to leave the Church.  He is simply leaving the priesthood.  The former priest is still in the Church.  And again, you still have not answered my question.  Do you think that one will find true happiness in a marriage with a wife or husband?  Do you not know that true happiness comes only in being one and in union with God?  

Quote from: Selene on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 20:37:27

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 20:31:24

What does that have to do with the Catholic churches policy in forcing priest out of church if they marry a woman???

NOTHING!!!!

Visionary, the Catholic Church does not force a priest to marry or not to marry.  A person who desires to be a priest already knows that he must give up all to follow Christ. 

Mark 10:28  And Peter began to say unto him: Behold, we have left all things, and have followed thee.

If a priest decides that he wants to marry, he can.  He is not forced to marry.  He is not forced in any way to leave the Church.  He is simply leaving the priesthood.  The former priest is still in the Church.

How about this Selene...Those who belong to God hears what God says. SINCE WHEN DID GOD EVER SAY IF YOU MARRY YOU ARE NOT A PRIEST?     "He is simply leaving the priesthood."

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 20:41:12

Quote from: Selene on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 20:37:27

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 20:31:24

What does that have to do with the Catholic churches policy in forcing priest out of church if they marry a woman???

NOTHING!!!!

Visionary, the Catholic Church does not force a priest to marry or not to marry.  A person who desires to be a priest already knows that he must give up all to follow Christ. 

Mark 10:28  And Peter began to say unto him: Behold, we have left all things, and have followed thee.

If a priest decides that he wants to marry, he can.  He is not forced to marry.  He is not forced in any way to leave the Church.  He is simply leaving the priesthood.  The former priest is still in the Church.

How about this Selene...Those who belong to God hears what God says. SINCE WHEN DID GOD EVER SAY IF YOU MARRY YOU ARE NOT A PRIEST?     "He is simply leaving the priesthood."

You still did not answer my question, Visionary.  Do you think that one will find true happiness in a marriage with a wife or husband?  Do you not know that true happiness comes only from being one and in union with God? 

Why would I give in to your attempt to change the subject Selene?

Now God has given certain men the commandment not to marry...Matthew 19:11,12 But he makes no distinction between men! Why?

Because Jesus is our perfect priest...Not the Pope...not any man! Jesus is our perfect priest having offered to God the perfect sacrifice of himself once for all and is seated in heaven above!

Hebrews 8:1,2

Therefore any man can take any woman to be his wife and if he does so he does not sin! If there is no sin in marriage then one who is a priest remains a priest and can serve God in clear conscience.

Take a look at Zechariah - a Priest - who entered the Most Holy Place. Luke 1:5-7 He was MARRIED! Only the priest could enter the most holy place with blood!

Because he was married GOD DID NOT SAY, You cannot serve in the temple before me!

Catholics have it so backwards its not even funny!!!

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 20:56:47
Why would I give in to your attempt to change the subject Selene?

Now God has given certain men the commandment not to marry...Matthew 19:11,12 But he makes no distinction between men! Why?

Because Jesus is our perfect priest...Not the Pope...not any man! Jesus is our perfect priest having offered to God the perfect sacrifice of himself once for all and is seated in heaven above!

Hebrews 8:1,2

Therefore any man can take any woman to be his wife and if he does so he does not sin! If there is no sin in marriage then one who is a priest remains a priest and can serve God in clear conscience.

Take a look at Zechariah - a Priest - who entered the Most Holy Place. Luke 1:5-7 He was MARRIED! Only the priest could enter the most holy place with blood!

Because he was married GOD DID NOT SAY, You cannot serve in the temple before me!

Catholics have it so backwards its not even funny!!!

Visionary, some of our deacons are married.  As a matter of fact, one of the deacons in my Church was married.  He's passed away now.  He served at the altar, but because he is married, he understands that he could not become a priest.  He is happy being married and being a deacon serving God.  My priest, on the other hand, is not married.  He was never forced to become a priest, and he is happy being in union with God.   

As we keep telling you... the Catholic Church does not forbid marriage; therefore, we are not in violation of 1 Timothy 4:1-6 or even with Hebrews.  Anyone who desires to become a priest already knows that he is going to be in union with God rather than with a woman.  This is NOT a secret that the Catholic Church keeps from him.  And if he becomes a priest and decides to change his mind about marrying a woman, he can do so.  As I said, we do not forbid marriage.  The priest can marry, but he leaves the priesthood to do so.   This is not a prohibition against marriage. 

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 20:56:47
Why would I give in to your attempt to change the subject Selene?

Now God has given certain men the commandment not to marry...Matthew 19:11,12 But he makes no distinction between men! Why?

Because Jesus is our perfect priest...Not the Pope...not any man! Jesus is our perfect priest having offered to God the perfect sacrifice of himself once for all and is seated in heaven above!

Hebrews 8:1,2

I would also like to add here, that you are correct that Jesus is our perfect priest.  And we are called to imitate Christ.  So, our priests chose to imitate Christ by being single like Him.  And this is a choice made by our priests because they already know that to become a priest is to give up all things and to follow Him just as the Apostles did.  

I would also like to add here, that you are correct that Jesus is our perfect priest.  And we are called to imitate Christ.  So, our priests chose to imitate Christ by being single like Him.  And this is a choice made by our priests because they already know that to become a priest is to give up all things and to follow Him just as the Apostles did.  
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to become a priest is to give up all things and to follow Him just as the Apostles did.

I would like you to show us this from scripture but again I will save you some time...YOU WILL NOT FIND THIS IS A REQUIREMENT OF GOD to become a priest!!!

Selene I am going to tell you something you will not hear in a catholic church.

This is the truth!  1Peter 2:9,10 YOU ARE a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that YOU may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once YOU WERE NOT a people, but now YOU ARE the people of God. Once YOU HAD NOT received mercy, but now YOU HAVE received mercy.

Who makes YOU a priest Selene? IT IS NOT the Catholic church! It is God! Do we as priests seek the approval of men or God?
Who qualifies you to be a priest? Colossians 1:12-14 How does God qualify you to be a priest? Ephesians 1:13,14

Selene I STRONGLY suggest you read a bible and believe what God says! Put away all this Catholic dogma that has no foundation in the Word of God and turn yourself to God and learn from him.

We do not imitate Christ by being single...that kind of wisdom is earthly!

We as husbands imitate Christ by dying to ourselves to supply the needs of others!!! Ephesians 5:1,2

Quote from: Visionary on Fri Sep 24, 2010 - 23:52:13


I would also like to add here, that you are correct that Jesus is our perfect priest.  And we are called to imitate Christ.  So, our priests chose to imitate Christ by being single like Him.  And this is a choice made by our priests because they already know that to become a priest is to give up all things and to follow Him just as the Apostles did.  

to become a priest is to give up all things and to follow Him just as the Apostles did.

I would like you to show us this from scripture but again I will save you some time...YOU WILL NOT FIND THIS IS A REQUIREMENT OF GOD to become a priest!!!

Mark 10:28  And Peter began to say unto him: Behold, we have left all things, and have followed thee.

Luke 18:28  Then Peter said: Behold, we have left all things, and have followed thee.

Matthew 19:27  Then Peter answering, said to him: Behold we have left all things, and have followed thee: what therefore shall we have?

John 12:26  If any man minister to me, let him follow me; and where I am, there also shall my minister be. If any man minister to me, him will my Father honour.

As you can see, the Apostles who were CHOSEN by Christ Himself left everything to follow Christ.  This is what it means to follow Christ.  God comes first before anything else.  Mother Teresa also did the same thing.  She was single and left all things to follow in Christ's footsteps.  Any Catholic Priest who answers God's call to follow Him understands this.  Apparantly, you do not understand this for you consider a wife more fulfilling than God.

As I said before, the union of man and woman in Genesis is only to prepare us for a much better union, which is found in Revelations.....a union, which our priests and nuns have found.  After all, did you really think that in Heaven you are going to be married to your wife? 

Luke 20:34-35  And Jesus said to them: The children of THIS WORLD  marry, and are given in marriage: [35] But they that shall be accounted worthy of that world, and of the resurrection from the dead, shall neither be married, nor take wives.  

QuoteSelene I am going to tell you something you will not hear in a catholic church.

This is the truth!  1Peter 2:9,10 YOU ARE a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that YOU may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. Once YOU WERE NOT a people, but now YOU ARE the people of God. Once YOU HAD NOT received mercy, but now YOU HAVE received mercy.

Who makes YOU a priest Selene? IT IS NOT the Catholic church! It is God! Do we as priests seek the approval of men or God?
Who qualifies you to be a priest? Colossians 1:12-14 How does God qualify you to be a priest? Ephesians 1:13,14

Selene I STRONGLY suggest you read a bible and believe what God says! Put away all this Catholic dogma that has no foundation in the Word of God and turn yourself to God and learn from him.

We do not imitate Christ by being single...that kind of wisdom is earthly!  

Actually, Visionary, the Church has taught us this.  St. Peter said that we are a royal priesthood and a holy nation.  We are an entire priesthood and yes, we are a nation.  Of all the Christian denomination, only the Catholic Church became a soverign nation.  The Catholic Church is a mirror image of who Christ is simply because we are His Body.  Christ is a priest.  His Church is a priest.  Christ is a prophet (See Matthew 21:11).  His Church is also a prophet in that she goes out to the world proclaiming God's word.  Christ is a King.  His Church is also a King in that she is a soverign nation among leaders.  Christ came from the richness of Heaven to this world in the flesh living in poverty.  His Church was built by the Divine God in this world, imitating the richness of the Spiritual and Heavenly Church from which Christ came. 

QuoteWe as husbands imitate Christ by dying to ourselves to supply the needs of others!!! Ephesians 5:1,2

You are in error.  This is what Ephesians 5:25 says:  

Ephesians 5:25  Husbands, love your wives, AS Christ also loved the church, and delivered himself up for it:

You are to love your wife AS Christ love the Church.  And how did Christ love the Church?  By dyiing for her.  Therefore, you are to die for your wife.

John 15:13  Greater love than this no man hath, that a man lay down his life for his friends.