Christian Forums

Quote from: James. on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 08:24:59

Quote from: SputnikBoy on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 05:21:02

Quote from: chosenone on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 03:05:19Well sputnikboy that very good advise from someone who thinks its ok to have gay realtionships.

Well, I gave up trying to squeeze God out of the pages of a book some time ago.  God is far too big to fit into small areas that some would rather limit Him to.  I talk to God as I would talk to you.  In private, of course, but quite randomly.  I can assure you that God is fine with gay relationships just as He is fine with a relationship between a Christian and a nonChristian.   However, feel free to contradict the message/s to my heart, mind and soul that I've gotten from God on these and other issues.

In all things we are "test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1st John 4:1, ESV).  

How do we do that?  Do we simply, gullibly fall in line with what some internet dude who says he hears voices says, or do we have an objective standard that anyone, anywhere, voices or not, can go to and test those voices (spirits) against God's will?  

I did NOT say - and intentionally did not say - that I hear voices.  I said that the 'voice' of God is impressed on my heart, mind and soul.  It's an inner feeling that doesn't require an audible response.

Funny you should bring up 'voices in the head', however.  I had dealings with a schizophrenic man a couple of years ago who could be quite lucid and 'normal' much of the time.  During such times we would converse.  I asked him whether or not he could recognize schizophrenia in other people that he might meet.  He said that he mostly could and that some of the Christians he'd met showed symptoms of schizophrenia.

So, no, James.  I don't hear voices in my head.  Good try though.

Quote from: James. on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 08:24:59Ah, thank the Lord we do indeed.  "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work." (II Timothy 3:16-17, ESV)

Ah, but that's intended for self ...not for aiming at and targetting others who we feel are spiritually beneath us.  

Quote from: James. on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 08:24:59
So, then, if the Apostle Paul, chosen by Christ Jesus and inspired by the Holy Spirit, says we can go to God's word to know the will of God, what does that word say on this matter, and does what the spirit you've conversed with line up?  God won't contradict His own word, but other spirits will, and we must be discerning.  After all, "even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we [the apostles] preached to you, let him be accursed." (Galatians 1:8, ESV)  And here is what it says:

Paul, of course, was referencing the Torah since the NT had not yet been written.  So, according to the above, God's word still includes stoning adulterers (but ONLY women adulterers, mind), executing disobedient children, profaning the Sabbath, etc. etc.  What say?

Quote from: James. on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 08:24:59
Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." (NIV)

Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." (NIV)

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (NIV)

Been through all of those texts previously.  Do you know the context behind them?

Quote from: James. on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 08:24:59
It appears that whatever spirit is telling you it's OK is twisting some tails.  Not unlike the serpent in the garden, because God's word seems pretty clear, and the spirit in this case arguing differently fails the test.  The word clearly says God does not approve of homosexuality.

God does not approve of idolatry or any of the practices associated with it.

Quote from: James. on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 08:24:59
The good news is that it also shows those who come to Jesus and leave it behind are as loved and forgiven as any other sinner, which we all have been.

Sure.  We're in agreement there.  However, we perhaps need to define 'sin' more accurately than we do.  Even then, we ought to concentrate on our own sins more so than specifically seeking out everyone elses sins.

Quote from: James. on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 08:24:59
As to this:

QuoteI gave up trying to squeeze God out of the pages of a book some time ago.

No one is squeezing God out of the pages of a book.  That's just a straw man.

Okay, strawman it is if you say so.  But using the term 'no one' suggests that you know everyone.

Quote from: crowcamp on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 16:43:47

Quote from: JohnDB on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 16:35:49
The two scriptures you have posted are all about fellow Jews.

Read scripture more carefully there Crowcamp...I know Idaho winters are cold but don't let your brain get frozen up there eh?

The other two have nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Try again...and if you can be successful I will certainly be surprised.

Ah, I see, His commandments are only for the Jews! How convenient!

I am successful, my friend. That you choose otherwise is not my doing.

As I've said, be afraid if you are. I am not. The "bad guys" ain't gonna get me. He already has. 

CrowCamp,
Quit reading every other word...read each word.

I said FELLOW jews.

IOW those that were also believers in Yahweh....which included the Samaritans with whom they were involved with a civil war at that time.

Quote from: SputnikBoy on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 18:45:36
I did NOT say - and intentionally did not say - that I hear voices.  I said that the 'voice' of God is impressed on my heart, mind and soul.  It's an inner feeling that doesn't require an audible response.

Funny you should bring up 'voices in the head', however.  I had dealings with a schizophrenic man a couple of years ago who could be quite lucid and 'normal' much of the time.  During such times we would converse.  I asked him whether or not he could recognize schizophrenia in other people that he might meet.  He said that he mostly could and that some of the Christians he'd met showed symptoms of schizophrenia.

So, no, James.  I don't hear voices in my head.  Good try though.

Defensive much?  I'm not accusing you of being schizophrenia at all.  You took the reference to "voices" a wee too literally there.  

Quote

Quote from: James. on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 08:24:59Ah, thank the Lord we do indeed.  "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work." (II Timothy 3:16-17, ESV)

Ah, but that's intended for self ...not for aiming at and targetting others who we feel are spiritually beneath us.  

As I said, we're all sinners, so there's no allusion in my post to anyone "beneath us."  Straw man again.  Nor is Paul's quote there just about ourselves.  Correction, reproof, and rebuke by the word of God is indeed within the role of the church, to be done with gentleness, firmness, humility, and love.  See Matthew 18 and Galatians 6.

Quote

Quote from: James. on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 08:24:59
So, then, if the Apostle Paul, chosen by Christ Jesus and inspired by the Holy Spirit, says we can go to God's word to know the will of God, what does that word say on this matter, and does what the spirit you've conversed with line up?  God won't contradict His own word, but other spirits will, and we must be discerning.  After all, "even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we [the apostles] preached to you, let him be accursed." (Galatians 1:8, ESV)  And here is what it says:

Paul, of course, was referencing the Torah since the NT had not yet been written.  So, according to the above, God's word still includes stoning adulterers (but ONLY women adulterers, mind), executing disobedient children, profaning the Sabbath, etc. etc.  What say?

What say?  That the punishment was part of the Old Law, but that what the heart of God finds detestable hasn't changed.

Quote

Quote from: James. on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 08:24:59
Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." (NIV)

Romans 1:26-27 - "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." (NIV)

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." (NIV)

Been through all of those texts previously.  Do you know the context behind them?

Yup.

Quote

Quote from: James. on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 08:24:59
It appears that whatever spirit is telling you it's OK is twisting some tails.  Not unlike the serpent in the garden, because God's word seems pretty clear, and the spirit in this case arguing differently fails the test.  The word clearly says God does not approve of homosexuality.

God does not approve of idolatry or any of the practices associated with it.

Who said he did?

Quote

Quote from: James. on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 08:24:59
The good news is that it also shows those who come to Jesus and leave it behind are as loved and forgiven as any other sinner, which we all have been.

Sure.  We're in agreement there.  However, we perhaps need to define 'sin' more accurately than we do.  Even then, we ought to concentrate on our own sins more so than specifically seeking out everyone elses sins.

Quote
And that will have to be done by the Word.

Quote

Quote from: James. on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 08:24:59
As to this:

QuoteI gave up trying to squeeze God out of the pages of a book some time ago.

No one is squeezing God out of the pages of a book.  That's just a straw man.

Okay, strawman it is if you say so.  But using the term 'no one' suggests that you know everyone.

Nah, there's a couple of people in Des Moines I haven't met, but their friends tell me they not book squeezers.

Quote from: crowcamp on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 15:54:36

Quote from: JohnDB on Sat Jan 08, 2011 - 15:42:09
By submitting it means we do what we are told to do.

and not allowing them access to our hearts. Cuz HE said so.

Yep, "Cuz HE said so." That's why I take the Word to the non-believer, and love the non-believer as I love the believer. Cuz HE said so.

Brother, you do realize that like no one here is saying that talking to, coming in physical contact or associating with a non believer is wrong do you? This isn't a discussion of interaction, fellowshipping or even reaching out to. This is a discussion about being in a intimate(which is not synonymus with sexual intercouse) relationship with a non believer. That is an clearly defined No-Go. That type of relationship has been mandated by God that we stick to those who follow Him.

Thats like saying, "Hey you may not love God, follow His teachings or even believe in Him and although I do I think we should get married and we should make a family together."

What would that family stand on in the absence of God? When it stands on something apart from God how will it hold up? What about the relationship between the two which one accepts although he is fully aware that it is opposition to God's design?

Try not to confuse the topics brother. We are called to love everyone but we are destined to be with the one God ordained for us.

Quote from: Basherbelding on Fri Jan 07, 2011 - 18:01:36
Hello, I've returned to the forums for a short while but what brought me here is the thought of me doing somthing worng. I've found a girl who i'm currently going out with but shes a non-christian. I heard she believes there could be a God but does not believe there is. Is it wrong for me to be doing this?

God Bless,

Basherbelding

Hey,
Im kinda feeling your pain right now, lol I've thought about this one... if we are to ditch someone just because they don't believe what we do, then how is it possible for us to not be hypocritical when we go about teaching the love of Jesus...shall I say Mary magdalene...wasn't she the prostitute that jesus saved...Did he not say who ever is guiltless throw the first stone?  and the best part...she turned away from her sins, Im not going to say that everyone will, but there are those people who will....
Hope that helps =)  and good luck with the whole girl friend thing
 
God Bless

Quote from: Basherbelding on Fri Jan 07, 2011 - 18:01:36
Hello, I've returned to the forums for a short while but what brought me here is the thought of me doing somthing worng. I've found a girl who i'm currently going out with but shes a non-christian. I heard she believes there could be a God but does not believe there is. Is it wrong for me to be doing this?

God Bless,

Basherbelding

I don't see anything wrong with it. If you like her, go for it.

you know there are times in life when things like this happen! Things we know in our hearts to be wrong because we question them but its not as easy as saying its wrong therefore dont do it. If it was that easy and that clear cut there would be no sin!

It also doesnt help when someone brings a problem to the forum and for two pages people argue and bash each other over the head with scripture about it. That doesnt resolve the issue in the persons heart.

The only advice I have is, seek first the kingdom of God and all these things will be given to you. First and foremost ask God he knows the answers to everything we dont but he does. Ask him for strength to deal with the situation in his way and then do what the father does like Jesus did. Thats all we've got in the end. If we do this the situation will resolve itself in the way God wants it to and God will help us deal with the consequences of that no matter what it ends up like. Nothing is Impossible for God though just remember that too!

Thats my two cents anyway. 

Hi, Socialite . . . thank you . . . hope to see you more, here. God bless you however He pleases

Hi, Basher Belding > The Bible does say, "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness?  And what communion has light with darkness?" (2 Corinthians 6:14) So, it's not just a rule, but showing us that we cannot have a real love relationship with a person who is not a Christian. So, you can get with a really Christian lady who is a good example, and you can invite the non-Christian to go out with you two to do things, and then you and your lady together can help the person. If she really appreciates you, she trusts you and you can have her meet the Christians who are good for you so they can be good for her, too. And if she really wants to be considered to be your wife, she can get to know some really Christian women who you trust and you would want to help her prepare for a real Christian marriage.

But I would say, not to get her started with you until she has become a Christian; because while you are attracted to her, now, she has not begun to develop the way Jesus will have her becoming able to love. Plus, once she has gotten started with Jesus, she will become a new person unlike how she is, now; so you don't even know what she will be like. Plus, she will need to become able to be led by God, and then you don't know if God will have her marry you.

Of course, if you know she does not trust you so you can share really Christian people with her, you are dating someone who does not trust you. And if you are hiding things from her, you don't trust her . . . maybe. And do you trust really Christian people so you desire for her to benefit from really Christian people Or, you do not trust God's people.

Trusting is included in loving, to my knowledge.

But I have read of ones claiming to be Christian women who say they are in love with someone else who is a Christian, but they do not trust that person enough to talk with him about what is important to them.  I would say that love for Christian marriage includes mutual trust and trust for a number of Christian couples whose example helps you find out how to relate in preparation for marriage. Watching movies and feeding your faces and  rubbing each other does not prepare us to learn how to love as the Bible describes and prescribes