Christian Forums

I had been seriously dating a wonderful Godly man. But we have a doctrinal disagreement that recently caused us to break up. I feel I did the right thing even though we aren't going to be dating anymore, it has left a "bad taste" in my mouth so to speak. This man and I had talked about getting married in a church ceremony at a later date. But the reason he broke up with me is this.... He believed God put us together and that God sees us as already married in HIS eyes. We seemed to be compatable and just what each of us wanted in a spouse. But he insists that God already sees me as his wife and because of that we should have no problem having sexual relations without legally getting the paper document that states according to law we are man and wife. I have run myself ragged trying to show him in the Word where as far as I'm concerned God looks on that as sexual sin. Without that piece of paper we aren't legally married and shouldn't be sleeping together. He insists to the point of he broke it off because I wouldn't have sex with him. We are both in our 50's and have been married before. He fully believes that we only have to be married "by God" and that God chose us to be together for the rest of our lives. I wouldn't budge on the issue. I have seen too many people walk into sexual sin before they were married here on Earth with that little piece of paper that makes it legal in mans eyes have an awful life due to opening themselves up to the pit of hell by having sex before marriage. How could I have gotten through to him that "Yes, maybe man established the fact that we have to get married and sign a piece of paper and go through a ceremony etc. than just declare "Well God put us together and we love each other and we desire to be husband and wife and we both agree that's what and how we see each other therefore we now can have sex.  I'm positive I'm right about waiting and it would displease the Lord if we didn't get that paper that states according to the law of man we are husband and wife. Anyone have any good advice. We won't be getting back together but it feels like I stood my ground and got left now standing alone. But  that God is happy with what I did. (which of course should be the only thing that counts!) But the whole thing makes me very sad. Because I thought I would be spending the rest of my natural life with this man. Thank you for your thoughts on this.

i'm a man and i think you did the right thing.

What would be the problem with running down to the courthouse and having the judge marry you two? Something sounds a little off to me.

How long have you known him?

Thanks for saying I did the right thing being that your a man it helps. We only were together for the last 2 months. He was supposedly madly in love with me already. It would take me alot longer than two months to fall head over heels in love with someone. I guess I want mainly to know what to say if this type of thing ever happens again. I could easily say "Well, he just wanted sex." But it was more than that. How do you make the point of "it needs to be made legal in man's eyes." When someone is telling you all the way that if God puts 2 people together and HE feels your married then you are married. Period! But my feelings are "Well, than did I just get a divorce in God's eyes because he dumped me?" Duh! I don't think so. Yes, God created marriage and back before Jesus time they just decided they were married and went on with it. And maybe man did establish the "make it legal with paper thing???"  But how do you "argue" the point of why we need that paper in God's eyes?  As far as I know even the Jews get it in writing and on a piece of paper to make it legal. He also had issues about reading  any other version of the Word than the King James. And he insisted that it was wrong when I bought him a couple books about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. He felt a Christian is only suppose to read the Bible to get taught and revelation from it. I feel that God has anointed a whole lot of people with revelation about HIS Word that we should be teachable (but discerning) to learn things God teaches us about the meaning of His Word through other believers. I have to say I'm glad we broke up! But I want to be able to have better grounds in stating the "why I won't sleep with a man before it's legal in man's eyes. Does that make sense? Oh by the way he was married 3 other times. I am glad we aren't together anymore ut like I said I want to be able to have a better understanding why I feel the way I feel.

The trouble with extricating oneself from deep connections with people of the opposite sex is because of the line of morality that was crossed. Sex outside of marriage harms us emotionally. That is why God wants us to save that kind of intimacy for where it belongs---in the marriage bed, where He will bless it.

Yep,
Water finds its own level & you two have different levels.

Both of you two have your liberal strengths & legal strengths in different areas.

Physical intimacy is supposed to be a natural progression of emotional intimacy. (Emotional intimacy is why your heart is breaking now)

The Government was put in place by God for our benefit. So were most of the laws.
So he can fuss & be right about what he is saying & so can you. But if you two can't see eye to eye on it with commitment then you two shouldn't be married. 

Yes, I totally agree and that's how I have lived my life. But trying to tel someone that and not having a specific Scripture that actually says "You need to have not only God ordain and have a covenant relationship in marriage but make it legal in God's eyes and in the eyes of the state or God won't bless it and if you have sex without that legality of man God doesn't see it as being ok to have sex. I know that and you know that, but how do you convince another person of the mindset that only God needs to be involved in a marriage? It's so frustrating! I know in my heart that he and I aren't going to have this issue because I don't want him in my life anymore. But I would like to understand it to be able to present it to other people if I ever date again. Or just to tell others if they come to me for counsel. I can counsel them from the Word easily. It's the trying to get them to understand this concept of God and man working together is what is the "how do I make my point". Thank you for your help.

Try the book of Daniel. Nebachadnessar said it & so does Daniel. Paul said it too I believe. 

The cool thing is I don't have a broken heart at all! I felt already 2 weeks ago that this was going to come to an end over the holiday weekend. God had prepared my heart. And I just didn't find him and I on the same level Spiritually even though he physically was treating me very well. There was an immaturity in so many different areas. I don't feel I really connected with him other than he wanted to get married like ....yesterday. Where as I love being single and Jesus is my husbandman and I'm not looking to get married for the next "while" in my life. My soul is satisfied in HIM. In fact I'm very much relieved that I'm not getting constant phone calls and emails from someone pursuing me with such strong "neediness". It was getting to feel suffocating to say the least! Thanks for your input.  

tinkerbell
There were SO many red flags with this man.
You had barely known each other. 8 weeks is nothing, and you cant get to know someone properly in that time.
Spiritually you are poles apart.
He was pressuring you to have sex outside marriage which is a BIG red flag for a man who is supposed to be a Christian.
You would have been his 4Th wife, which gives very poor chances of the marriage lasting sadly. His is a very poor track record for marriage.

I think you have done exactly the right thing. This man has lots of issues and you have stood up for what was right and godly. Don't settle for second best. If God wants you to marry again, wait for him to find the right man, one who is godly and who has good morals. You called him a godly man, but he isnt acting like a godly man, pressuring you to have sex with him and ending the relationship because you said no.
My daughter went out with a supposedly Christian guy last year, who ended their relationship for the same reason, and now she has juts got engaged to a lovely godly young man, who knows that sex before marriage is wrong.
God Bless

Thank you for the encouragement. Looking back on  it, I have to say your right I was being nice in calling him a Godly man. I had an abusive marriage and I think because this one read the Word and we prayed together and he seemed to love the Lord I called him Godly. When in reality, he treated me without abusing me. But then is pressuring a woman for sex a type of abuse and/or a type of control. Yes, I would say it is and I need to be more careful definitely. I tend to trust people to easily when they start saying their Christains I let me "guard" down and get sucked in. It has happened in other areas of my life in the past. Guess I need to go back to the Lord and get more healing and deliverance and more secure in knowing who I am in Christ. Praise God for all of your answers on here it has really been a blessing finding this forum.                                                       

Quote from: tinkerbelle9906 on Tue May 31, 2011 - 08:11:52
Thank you for the encouragement. Looking back on  it, I have to say your right I was being nice in calling him a Godly man. I had an abusive marriage and I think because this one read the Word and we prayed together and he seemed to love the Lord I called him Godly. When in reality, he treated me without abusing me. But then is pressuring a woman for sex a type of abuse and/or a type of control. Yes, I would say it is and I need to be more careful definitely. I tend to trust people to easily when they start saying their Christains I let me "guard" down and get sucked in. It has happened in other areas of my life in the past. Guess I need to go back to the Lord and get more healing and deliverance and more secure in knowing who I am in Christ. Praise God for all of your answers on here it has really been a blessing finding this forum.                                                       

Wise words tinkerbelle.  I was where you are to some extent. Both my first marriage, and my husbands first marriage, ended after 25 years and 23 years. I was then a single mum for 6 years in my 40's and met my husband when we were both in our late 40's. He is a very good and godly man with very high morals and God so clearly bought us together. God told me about 3 years before we met "dont settle for second best" and I believe that he said the same to my daughter with that other boyfriend. God doesnt want us to compromise on what we believe for any man(or woman).
God Bless   

Just quote the following scripture:

Quote from: tinkerbelle9906 on Tue May 31, 2011 - 07:12:49
Yes, I totally agree and that's how I have lived my life. But trying to tel someone that and not having a specific Scripture that actually says "You need to have not only God ordain and have a covenant relationship in marriage but make it legal in God's eyes and in the eyes of the state or God won't bless it and if you have sex without that legality of man God doesn't see it as being ok to have sex. I know that and you know that, but how do you convince another person of the mindset that only God needs to be involved in a marriage? It's so frustrating! I know in my heart that he and I aren't going to have this issue because I don't want him in my life anymore. But I would like to understand it to be able to present it to other people if I ever date again. Or just to tell others if they come to me for counsel. I can counsel them from the Word easily. It's the trying to get them to understand this concept of God and man working together is what is the "how do I make my point". Thank you for your help.

You cannot convince a carnal person of their carnal ways. Only Holy Spirit can do that. The first and best thing you can do is pray for these kinds of people, and stay away from carnal men.

Well, there is no Bible verse that says you must be legally married before it can be right with God for you to have sex.

But it does say, "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God." (Romans 13:1) Also, "Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme," (1 Peter 2:13) < these, I would say, mean to obey secular rulers. There is a purpose for making marriage legal . . . so there is no question and you can openly let everyone know, and so each has a legal obligation to take care of the other and has authority in medical matters, etc.

Now, by the way . . . if he has married four others, he could be morally responsible for any or all of them and any children he has had with them. And what were the grounds for each divorce? If any grounds were rightly against him, he's not free in God's sight to get married to someone else.

And we have, "Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you." (Hebrews 13:17) To me, this now means that God has Christian leaders whom God trusts to guide us; and so, if God trusts these leaders, He expects us to trust them. And it is our responsibility to find out who are God's trustworthy leaders, then handle courting and marriage the way they help us to understand. These leaders meet the qualifications given by Paul in 1 Timothy 3:1-10.

But I am not perfect; so I can fool myself into trusting someone who is not a real Christian leader. I need to be honest with God and obedient to Him so I can be led by God to Christian leaders who God knows He approves. Only God can make me honest so I do not fool myself and so I can tell the difference between someone to trust and someone who is not approved by God. You might consider 1 Timothy 3:1-10 and 1 Peter 5:3, but trust God to make you able to know His guiding about who to trust.

And, if God makes you able to know who is a real Christian leader, you also can be able to tell who is a real godly man suitable for marriage. So, God can do this with us. But we need really Christian example people to help us with this; but others can fool themselves, too; so . . . only You, O LORD, can make us honest and reliable so we don't fool ourselves into trusting the wrong people.

In the case of Isaac marrying Rebecca, I don't see any legal thing done. But a trusted servant went out to find Rebecca; he prayed for God to show him who was God's choice to marry Isaac. He was someone who was capable of making sure with God so he did not fool himself. So, it was not done by Isaac and Rebecca just getting alone to get their emotions going so they couldn't resist each other or something like that. But Isaac was brought up by Abraham and God was trusted to show who belonged with Isaac.

And in the case of Ruth marrying Boaz . . . she was a well-known godly woman, and she was submissive to her mother's directions for how to approach Boaz for marriage. And the honorable men of the place were involved in evaluating and arranging the marriage. Marriage is for loving, and love has us including those who care for us.

So, it's not just an issue of technical legalities.

All I can say about your post is: WOW! Thank you for such awesome insight. I feel I now have my answer. God Bless All of You!

Tinkerbelle9906,

You did the right thing.  In regards to your question on how you explain the Bible...well, always be led by the Holy Spirit when discussing the Scriptures and it's also important to understand that even when you explain the Truth in it, there will be some that will not receive (Mark 16:15-16).  That's not for you to deal with.  That's what the Lord needs to deal with, however in this testing, you have passed in regards to standing on your faith and understanding that the Lord has revealed this to you.  Great job, as this can be difficult.  The fact that you're still struggling with it in your mind could be some effects of ungodly soul ties still attached in the spirit with this individual, which are being used to place doubt and that 'bad taste' in your mouth (like bitterness, unforgiveness).  Here's an article that may help you understand what needs to be done with that:  http://www.soulties.org/.  (also these Scriptures came up:  2 Tim. 3; Rev. 2:20...this speaks of the spirit that is derived from Jezebel, not just literally as what is being said that they were dealing with at the time...thoughts and intentions, not just effecting women but also men; it might also be helpful to understand Jezebel's story in the Bible, her intentions, her works, etc. -  1Kings).  Even though she was killed, the spiritual intentions and thoughts still are being used by the enemy to tempt God's people from following the Truth and compromising their faith for their own agendas in these hours.  

js

I went to the link you sent and read and prayed the prayers on it and will continue to pray as the Holy Spirit will, I'm sure reveal more to me that I need to handle in the realm of the Spirit. I married 2 husbands one before I was saved. We both got saved and Spirit filled years later. I still divorced him after 24 1/2 years for reasons that are personal and line up with the Word. I was single for 13 years and only dated twice in that time. And fell into sin with one of the people I was dating. Then I handled the situation as the link said to handle it because I knew these soul ties type of things exist and how to take care of it. I then married a man who claimed to be a Christian. Treated me well, got married way to soon. I ignored red flags in amongst being treated good 75% of the time. It was the other 25% of him abusing me verbally, emotinally and mentally that should have given me the urge to run as fast as I could in the other direction. He was what the world would call "a catch" due to his job status and his financial status.  I married him anyway, trying to fool myself that the bad stuff I was seeing and experiencing would stop after we got married and if I prayed "enough". (are you seeing a pattern here!?) Anyway, after we came back from our honeymoon he got so controling and physically and sexually abusive that when I put myself into therapy to try and get healed and stay in the marriage the therapist gave me the # of the woman's shelter and a lawyer. We were married almost 5 years. I am now single and really not interested in even dating someone. I like my life with my own place and me and Jesus are enjoying each other and I don't feel I want or need anyone else in my life at this time. But I guess I am still needing more healing and deliverance as to why I keep associating with these type of men.  I need to get myself back into just focusing on Jesus and only on HIM for loving me. So that when temptation and an opportunity comes before me that I totally know deep within me that it's not the Lord that I walk on by and say a  "no thankyou" and keep on walking. I guess it's the stupid "woman" idea of "oh I just want someone to love me garbage". Been there, done that, bought the shirt! But I am now really getting into the Word and intercession and like I said, it's just going to be me and Jesus. And I am going to allow Him to heal me and show me what familiar spirits I'm dealing with and all the other things I need to be free of so I don't do this kind of stuff again. It gets very old after awhile. Thanks for your advice and prayers it is greatly appreciated. 

Well, if I know I can have a way of getting with dominating women, over and over again . . . now I can be ready when a woman comes along and charms me like others have done, and instead of letting my feelings fool me I can pray and be submissive to God and be humble with her so she can't steer me around. Humble means I'm not trying to use her, and humble means I am not trying to get power over her to keep her from controlling me. And let her play her games, but be caring about her, and be her good example of how I am submissive to God, not just to her for what I want.

Oh yes . . . while we ourselves are judging who we want, this judging can make us so that spiritually we can't see straight and submit to God for His guiding; so we can still get with wrong people, because of how we are. So, I "assume" since I'm still not perfect, that I will be attracting with dominaters, in my case. But I am trusting God to have me doing better, and I think better has been coming, but I still have to watch out for how I can fool myself about someone's charm and seeming to be intelligent and superior to me.

There are superior acting women who still have not gotten deeply emotionally sound. And yet they can treat me like a little  while they date and get hurt with guys not even Christians, maybe, while they may be looking down on me. So, this is "why" God says to relate "with longsuffering" (Ephesians 4:2) instead of me being hurt and mad and sad and even bad about ones not wanting me

p r little baby billy

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)