Giants

[Rella]

Only for species with indeterminate growth.  Every creature that has ever existed has genetics.  That hasn't changed. 

For some plants and animals, those genetics define a maximum size.  That's called determinate growth.  They will only ever grow to the maximum size their genes allow. 

For others, those genetics DON'T define a maximum size.  They will continue growing for as long as they live.  The Nile Crocodile, for example, grows indeterminately.  When they live long, they can get to 20' long and upwards of a ton.

Mankind grows determinately.  Living longer will not result in us growing larger.  Our size is dictated strictly by our genes.

Another thought.

Was it only Moses who ever mentioned Giants in the OT?

I have been watching some movies this holiday on Great American Family and Hallmark.

I have noticed that there is an over abundance of really tall men and very short girls when the tops of the girls heads hit at the guys shoulders or below.

If Moses saw this, or those he wrote about could they think maybe the guys were giants.

You had mentioned if there were there would not be normal "humans" but variants... or however you said it.

That is why I posted those 3 links about the double teeth and 6 fingers and toes.

Certainly would be a variant from us. Possibly another species.

I just read, but cant find this AM about an addition to the Dennisovians and Neanderthals....

I did run across this..
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/dna-reveals-new-branch-european-ancestry-180957312/

DNA from a Huge Tooth Confirms a New Ancient Cousin
The Denisovans may have co-existed and interbred with Neanderthals and Homo sapiens

I digress and off topic so... toodles.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Another thought.

Was it only Moses who ever mentioned Giants in the OT?

No, they're in Joshua, Samuel, and the books of history.  1 mention in Job.

Also, they're in the stories of the Canaanites and Amorites from the same time period.

You had mentioned if there were there would not be normal "humans" but variants... or however you said it.

That is why I posted those 3 links about the double teeth and 6 fingers and toes.

Certainly would be a variant from us. Possibly another species.

If they were another species, then they couldn't interbreed with people.  I believe that's actually the definition of a species.

The point is that the genetic adaptations for that size (much heavier bones, extra ligaments, some sort of shock-absorbing tissue in the feet) aren't compatible with people.  If such things interbred with humanity, we should find groups of people nowadays with some really weird feet.

[Amo]

No, they're in Joshua, Samuel, and the books of history.  1 mention in Job.

Also, they're in the stories of the Canaanites and Amorites from the same time period.
If they were another species, then they couldn't interbreed with people.  I believe that's actually the definition of a species.

The point is that the genetic adaptations for that size (much heavier bones, extra ligaments, some sort of shock-absorbing tissue in the feet) aren't compatible with people.  If such things interbred with humanity, we should find groups of people nowadays with some really weird feet.

This observation is of course once again built upon the highlighted presumption of fallen humanity in the following scriptures.

2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

Apart from the above, are you suggesting that all the giant rabbits, rodents, bears, cats, dogs, sloths, insects, and numerous others I have posted articles about on these boards do not have this suggested restriction, but we do? You know this to be true concerning all of them?

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Apart from the above, are you suggesting that all the giant rabbits, rodents, bears, cats, dogs, sloths, insects, and numerous others I have posted articles about on these boards do not have this suggested restriction, but we do? You know this to be true concerning all of them?

No, all the animals are still subject to the laws of physics just the same.

It's just your articles that are rubbish.

[Rella]

No, all the animals are still subject to the laws of physics just the same.

It's just your articles that are rubbish.

Why were giants... as in people... even mentioned in the bible if there is no tangible proof they ever existed?

[Amo]

No, all the animals are still subject to the laws of physics just the same.

It's just your articles that are rubbish.

You may consider the suggested theory rubbish, but the evidence of far larger plant and animal life is abundantly observed. Therefore, either physics, or the world was very different in the past. Which do you suppose it was? Or do you have another explanation altogether? If conditions were conducive to having much larger plants and animals, as they most obviously were, why would this not apply to humanity as well? What is your reasoning for allowing such regarding plants and animals, but not humanity as well?

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Why were giants... as in people... even mentioned in the bible if there is no tangible proof they ever existed?

There's evidence of some taller-than-average tribes of people existing in the Bronze Age.  There's no evidence of a group of 10' tall giants with superhuman powers, though.

As for why they were mentioned, Moses tells us that God sent the Israelites specifically to wipe out the last remnants of the giants.

https://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/index.php?topic=113701.0

[Amo]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/22/us/smithsonian-apologizes-racial-brain-collection-cec/index.html

The Smithsonian is apologizing for how it amassed its vast collection of human remains

Interesting article concerning the abusive practices and power of the Smithsonian Institute. If it was willing to do that described in the article in order to bolster false conceptions of the evolutionary theory, why do so many act so offended or surprised at the suggestion that it has buried or withheld evidence of giants of the past, to protect this theory as well?  They certainly demonstrated this spirit in the past, as the article reveals.

[Rella]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/22/us/smithsonian-apologizes-racial-brain-collection-cec/index.html

The Smithsonian is apologizing for how it amassed its vast collection of human remains

Interesting article concerning the abusive practices and power of the Smithsonian Institute. If it was willing to do that described in the article in order to bolster false conceptions of the evolutionary theory, why do so many act so offended or surprised at the suggestion that it has buried or withheld evidence of giants of the past, to protect this theory as well?  They certainly demonstrated this spirit in the past, as the article reveals.

Good find. 

[Amo]

Quoted chapter below from GIANTS ON RECORD,

America's Hidden History, Secrets in the Mounds and the Smithsonian Files

First published 2015 AD
This edition © Jim Vieira & Hugh Newman 2015 AD Published by Avalon Rising Publications. British Library Cataloguing in Publication Data Vieira, J and Newman, H.
Giants on Record

         

8. The Smithsonian Files

The Smithsonian Institution is continually linked to giant skeletons, or at least the lack of them. Dozens of reports end in something like this: "The bones were shipped to the Smithsonian Institution for further study".

In this chapter we look at giants skeletons that were sold to the institution, some that were simply given, and even Smithsonian reports of directly discovering them. Our favorite report is of the gentleman who refused to sell them a skeleton! The story of the Smithsonian is remarkable tale that has become what some researchers describe as a "conspiracy".

The Institution was originally founded thanks to just over half a million dollars (equating to over $13 million today), donated by English scientist James Smithson (1765-1829). Due to his unusual will, his fortune ended up being given to the people of the United States in 1836 to found an institution "at Washington, under the name of the Smithsonian Institution, an establishment for the increase and diffusion of knowledge."

The amount he gave to the U.S. was around 1/66 of the United States' entire federal budget at the time.2 President Jackson sent a diplomat to collect the money that consisted of 104,960 gold coins, but Congress decided to invest the money in treasury bonds issued by the state of Arkansas. The bonds became worthless after they defaulted. However, after much debate, ex-President John Quincy Adams persuaded Congress to restore the lost funds with interest. Smithson's reasons for providing for a research and educational institution in a new country on another continent remains a mystery, as he never set foot in America. His bequest sparked widespread debate over what such a national institution might be. However, once established, "the Smithsonian Institution became part of the process of developing the U.S. national identity."3 This is certainly the case, as early pioneers in the newly founded Bureau of Ethnology drove an agenda of manifest destiny and the new theory of evolution. They also exerted control over the prehistoric mounds, and all artifacts and skeletons discovered within them.

In 1864 the Smithsonian was established as a governmental trust to be run by a board and secretary. Curiously, it is neither governmental or private, sitting in a gray area.

The first major Smithsonian publication was created by Ephraim Squire and Edwin Davis. They were commissioned to describe, survey and illustrate the mound culture sites that were being quickly demolished by the incoming Europeans. Their incredibly popular book, published in 1848, did not mention giants, but it concluded that a prehistoric race, superior to the Native Americans was responsible for building the mounds. This became a contentious issue within the hierarchy of the Smithsonian over the decades, and was refuted by future Director John Wesley Powell, who was sympathetic towards the Native Americans due to his interactions with them over the years. Although the lost race theory was a popular one, it didn't succeed in becoming part of the new paradigm that the Smithsonian was building. To this day, it is official doctrine that the mounds were built by the ancestors of the Native Americans, and not a legendary lost race.

The publication caused quite a stir, as evolutionary theories and Manifest Destiny were being advanced by Lewis Henry Morgan, John Wesley Powell, and Otis T. Mason. These combined agendas would become the public norm, and influence how modern Native Americans were being treated for decades to come.

"With land rights being one of the foremost issues facing lawmakers, having evolutionary theories that labeled the American Indian populations as savage would be seen as a pivotal breakthrough in addressing and advancing a Manifest Destiny agenda, along with a host of other scientific, government, and social ethnological issues."

In 1879 John Wesley Powell (pictured with Pauite Indian) founded the Bureau of Ethnology in a new format. It was set up to be a storehouse of records and artifacts relating to Native Americans, and to transfer archives, records and materials relating to the North America Indians from the Interior Department to the Smithsonian Institution. An annual budget of $25,000 was granted, with $5,000 given to the newly formed Division of Mound Exploration, much to Powell's discontent. As a firm believer in the Native origins of the mounds, he wanted to keep any research ethnological, not intrusive, but agreed to comply with the bill.

John Wesley Powell, who lost his arm in the Civil War, was a famous geologist and explorer (of Grand Canyon exploration fame 1869-1872). His interest in history and archaeology stimulated his vision to create the nation's ultimate storehouse and research agency. The first annual report was published by the Smithsonian in 1882, under the guidance of Powell. That same year he appointed Cyrus Thomas as the Director of the Division of Mound Exploration.

Thomas was also quietly a believer in the legendary lost race theory, as by then hundreds of reports of giant skeletons, strange artifacts that appeared to have come from other countries, and sophisticated astronomy, geometry, and mathematics were being revealed from the earthworks, regardless of any Smithsonian involvement. The question of who the original inhabitants of North America were did not leave the spotlight for too long.

Thomas' organisational skills were put to use in coordinating the field workers who would go across the country collecting data, artifacts, and most importantly to our investigation, skulls and skeletons for research and display at the Smithsonian. Many of these discoveries were documented in the Annual Reports that we explore later in this chapter.

"These [Smithsonian] men were in every valley, on every hill, north and south. They let nothing escape."

He outlined his intentions clearly. The primary goal being:

"1. To make a collection of skeletons, especially crania found entombed in the mounds or graves."

Cyrus Thomas soon came round to Powell's views of Native American origins, but this may have also been the trigger for "the Smithsonian to quash all evidence that showed that the mound builders were related to any other culture on any continent."6 They also ignored any suggestion of 'diffusionism', the school of thought that believes throughout history there has been worldwide contact via the oceans and trade routes. Isolationism became the norm, where it is believed to have been isolated from any influence of overseas navigators, or even neighboring tribes.

In 1910 the Smithsonian hired the most infamous figure in its short history to be the curator of the Division of Physical Anthropology. Aleš Hrdlička was involved in the Eugenics movement, a pre-Nazism philosophy funded by the Rockerfeller Foundation.7 His influence overpowered many contemporaries who were afraid to challenge the paradigm he was enforcing. We discuss Hrdlička further in the chapter, but his draconian zeal, combined with his racist denial of culturally advanced Native Americans did not help the image of the Smithsonian in the following decades.

Author David Hatcher Childress first raised the alarm that something was not right within the Smithsonian in 1993 with his controversial article entitled "Smithsoniangate." It outlined many non-giant related artifacts discoveries at ancient sites, that were never heard of again. These included the lost Egyptian artifacts that were said to have been discovered in the Grand Canyon in April 1909 with numerous other discoveries. Online skeptics have ridiculed this article as the genesis of the Smithsonian conspiracy theory, but as we delved into these upcoming accounts, we quickly found it may prove to be relevant to giantology. A probable urban legend, first written and published by Childress in his article, stated something quite strange and disconcerting, but could it really be true?

"In a private conversation with a well-known historical researcher (who shall remain nameless), I was told that a former employee of the Smithsonian, who was dismissed for defending the view of diffusionism in the Americas (i.e. the heresy that other ancient civilisations may have visited the shores of North and South America during the many millennia before Columbus), alleged that the Smithsonian at one time had actually taken a barge full of unusual artifacts out into the Atlantic and dumped them in the ocean."

Before we started this investigation, the Smithsonian was simply just another historical institution that everyone loved, looked up to, and had some nice museums. However, as we uncovered more and more accounts, it quickly became clear that the Smithsonian collected and received thousands of artifacts, treasures, sizeable skeletons, and amassed an impressive knowledge of America's earlier inhabitants. If there is no 'conspiracy', then where are all these relics now, and why do they deny they received them? Does the scene of the crated-up artifacts in Raiders of the Lost Ark hold any truth? Ross Hamilton tackles this ongoing issue:

"Combing through the Museum's old Annual Reports has been an education, raising a number of questions regarding the modern Smithsonian's repeated denials of specific, albeit lacking-in-detail nineteenth century finds. Interestingly, there were few or no such denials until the tenure of Aleš Hrdlička, early twentieth century head of anthropology at the Museum. Thus an important—perhaps pivotal question is raised: Why would this gentleman discount the existence of relics carefully recorded in the field reports of his predecessors John Wesley Powell and Cyrus Thomas? Was Hrdlička simply an apologist ignorant of his own reliquary's contents, a rank materialist who had not taken time to search the collections, or was there something darker creeping insidiously into American anthropology at the highest levels in the early twentieth century?"

Hugh visited the Smithsonian Institution in Washington D.C. in late 2014 to take a look for himself. It is a sparse place, with very few artifacts or anything 'ancient' on display. It has a cold, unwelcoming atmosphere, and the workers there knew nothing of giant skeletons in their records, even though Hugh showed them several examples. Hugh simply saw an empty shell of what could have been one of the most important repositories of knowledge in the world.

It's not all bad though. Their recent court case against the federal government over Kennewick Man shows a shift within the ranks, and a new respect for the ancestors of this ancient land.

The authors are fascinated by these following accounts because they appear to reveal an unfolding agenda and deliberate suppression of what was really being discovered in ancient America, as well as a severe lack of respect for Native American burials. Other commentators deny there is any cover-up, so please take a look at the following accounts—firstly from newspapers—then from their own journals, to determine what really happened at the Smithsonian.

I will follow up this posts, by more posts of the accounts and articles referred to above.

[DaveW]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/22/us/smithsonian-apologizes-racial-brain-collection-cec/index.html

The Smithsonian is apologizing for how it amassed its vast collection of human remains

Interesting article concerning the abusive practices and power of the Smithsonian Institute. If it was willing to do that described in the article in order to bolster false conceptions of the evolutionary theory, why do so many act so offended or surprised at the suggestion that it has buried or withheld evidence of giants of the past, to protect this theory as well?  They certainly demonstrated this spirit in the past, as the article reveals.

Interesting.  The scientific community is as much dogma driven as the catholic and orthodox churches.

In the very office where my wife and I work, (NOAAs Office of Coast Survey) in the 1950s a young cartographer decided to take the sounding measurements in the mid Atlantic and make a 3D model of them. She discovered a mountain range roughly following  a mid line between North America and Europe. She got fired because it hinted at tectonic plate movement.

And we all have heard when the first Brits to explore Australia brought back some duck bill platypus specimens. They were laughed out of England's scientific community and some in there ripped the bill off of one to prove they had faked them.

Science has never been as scientific as they claim it to be.

[Amo]

Interesting.  The scientific community is as much dogma driven as the catholic and orthodox churches.

In the very office where my wife and I work, (NOAAs Office of Coast Survey) in the 1950s a young cartographer decided to take the sounding measurements in the mid Atlantic and make a 3D model of them. She discovered a mountain range roughly following  a mid line between North America and Europe. She got fired because it hinted at tectonic plate movement.

And we all have heard when the first Brits to explore Australia brought back some duck bill platypus specimens. They were laughed out of England's scientific community and some in there ripped the bill off of one to prove they had faked them.

Science has never been as scientific as they claim it to be.

Agreed!

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Article:  Excavation near Jerusalem finds 9,000-year-old six-fingered Neolithic shaman woman

https://www.jpost.com/archaeology/archaeology-around-the-world/article-840914

[Rella]

Article:  Excavation near Jerusalem finds 9,000-year-old six-fingered Neolithic shaman woman

https://www.jpost.com/archaeology/archaeology-around-the-world/article-840914

You got me all excited and then no mention of a giant at all.

Just 6 fingers on one hand, where others claim 6 fingers and 6 toes and double teeth rows. (I personally think these would be a different species)

funny though... I turned to this just as I finished reading a pitch for

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE NEPHILIM?

From Genesis Apologetics.

[Amo]

https://anomalien.com/the-giants-found-in-romania-and-the-huge-cover-up/#google_vignette

Quoted article below from link above.

The Giants Found In Romania And The Huge Cover-Up

In the 1940's, archaeologists were overseeing a dig at Argedava in Romania, searching for priceless artifacts within the ruins of what was once the greatest citadel of the Dacian leader Burebista. The locals did most of the digging and they were glad to be making a little extra during those times of hardship.

Among them was Ionita Florea, now an old man well in his eighties. He was the one who dug up an enormous skull, two or three times the size of a regular one. When he notified the archaeologists, the workers were quickly dismissed and the researchers resumed the digging themselves.

Their findings were loaded onto trucks and shipped away with the utmost secrecy. By the end of the excavation, they had collected around 80 skeletons, most of them complete. They had also recovered giant ceramic pots filled with grains.

To this day, nobody knows where the skeletons are.

This is not an isolated incident. In more recent years, villagers in Scaieni uncovered an ancient giants' graveyard while planting an apple orchard. Once again, it was the skulls' giant sizes that puzzled everyone.

Alongside the complete skeletons, the villagers also found pottery fragments, jewelry and strange metal statues about 3 feet tall. A team of archaeologists came, dug everything up and vanished. No public statement was made and the locals refuse to discuss what happened after they announced their finding.

There are plenty of legends about giants in the area. According to folklore, giants once inhabited the mountains and forests around Scaieni. In fact, huge thrones were found sculpted in the mountainside, in an area inaccessible to regular human beings.

Legends tell that there are two gigantic underground vaults beneath the mountains, holding the giants' ancient treasures. Could these vaults be real? If found, what stories would they tell?

In 2009, a local news channel started an investigation about the giants and their secret tunnels beneath the Bucegi mountains. Just as their report went on air, they received a live phone call from a man who refused to identify himself.

The journalists were threatened to stop their ongoing investigation or else. As the mysterious man put it, they were "playing a dangerous game."

"Stop talking about the Bucegi [mountains]. Information like that must not be made public and there are certain structures that deal with cases such as this.

You do not wish to know us, you don't want to interview us. That's all I want to say." He then hung up and the broadcast was interrupted. Was this an orchestrated hoax or a live case of a threatening secret cover-up? Only the journalists know and they refuse to discuss the subject.

In an intriguing twist, the airspace above the Bucegi Plateau is a restricted no-fly zone. Many sources point to the CIA being involved.

Incidents like these happen all around the world. There is a distinct lack of physical evidence whenever people report findings of giant skeletons. Authorities arrive first, leaving behind hastily covered excavations, no artifacts and muted locals. One might think something really strange is going on.

[Jaime]

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/salim-y-tannous-b5a073213_a-limited-number-of-areas-are-undisputed-activity-7281665001717698560-Nhsr?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios&rcm=ACoAADdUzDcByCxZ9dhxoBKGRKCmJmSShbd8Vt0

[Rella]

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/salim-y-tannous-b5a073213_a-limited-number-of-areas-are-undisputed-activity-7281665001717698560-Nhsr?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios&rcm=ACoAADdUzDcByCxZ9dhxoBKGRKCmJmSShbd8Vt0

  

thank you , thank you, thank you.

[Amo]

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/salim-y-tannous-b5a073213_a-limited-number-of-areas-are-undisputed-activity-7281665001717698560-Nhsr?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios&rcm=ACoAADdUzDcByCxZ9dhxoBKGRKCmJmSShbd8Vt0

Sorry, but Jesus and the apostles were not discussing mount Herman, the book of Enoch, or a certain rebellion of the fallen angels against God in producing offspring with the woman of humanity at all. This is to completely ignore the context of what was actually being discussed, concerning the spiritual truth and prophetic reality of the Lord being the rock of salvation for His people. And replacing it with unbiblical legends.

Ps 118:22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner. 23 This is the LORD's doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.

Isa 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Dan 2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. 35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

Matt 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Ps 18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.

Ps 18:31 For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?

Ps 18:46 The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and let the God of my salvation be exalted.

Ps 28:1 Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.

Ps 31:1 In thee, O LORD, do I put my trust; let me never be ashamed: deliver me in thy righteousness. 2 Bow down thine ear to me; deliver me speedily: be thou my strong rock, for an house of defence to save me. 3 For thou art my rock and my fortress; therefore for thy name's sake lead me, and guide me.

Ps 42:9 I will say unto God my rock, Why hast thou forgotten me? why go I mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?

Ps 62:1 Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. 2 He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved.

Ps 62:6 He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved.

Ps 95:1 O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.

Isa 8:13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. 14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Isa 32:1 Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment. 2 And a man shall be as an hiding place from the wind, and a covert from the tempest; as rivers of water in a dry place, as the shadow of a great rock in a weary land. 3 And the eyes of them that see shall not be dim, and the ears of them that hear shall hearken.

1 Cor 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

[Jaime]

He could have told what he told them anywhere. I would suggest he had a specific reason to travel to that extremely pagan site for that discussion that day. To practicing Jews of that day Caesarea Phillipi area was a place to be avoided for devout Jews. The sin city of that day.

I think he wanted to demonstrate that they shouldn't be afraid of evil, but that they ahould be willing to storm the gates of hell, and the evil epitomized by that place would not prevail against the church they would build. The imagery of the place must have been important to Jesus and his message or  he would have communicated his message in a more "acceptable and appropriate" place. He wanted the picture and the idea of his message to have a lasting impact, otherwise why go out of the way to THAT repulsive place?

[Amo]

He could have told what he told them anywhere. I would suggest he had a specific reason to travel to that extremely pagan site for that discussion that day. To practicing Jews of that day Caesarea Phillipi area was a place to be avoided for devout Jews. The sin city of that day.

I think he wanted to demonstrate that they shouldn't be afraid of evil, but that they ahould be willing to storm the gates of hell, and the evil epitomized by that place would not prevail against the church they would build. The imagery of the place must have been important to Jesus and his message or  he would have communicated his message in a more "acceptable and appropriate" place. He wanted the picture and the idea of his message to have a lasting impact, otherwise why go out of the way to THAT repulsive place?

OK. So let's follow through with that thought. What distinct church is at Caesarea Philippi today? And do you seek out and acknowledge that literal church as the literal church of Christ established against the gates of hell? Are places themselves holy or evil, or do the evil or holy actions of people in places make them either or?

Jhn 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Mat 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

As far as the location, Jesus went many places the Jews would not go, to reach those the most in need. And He has commanded His very own to go to all the world. Perhaps the location is and was of significance as well. Nevertheless, the lesson and truth being taught, far ascends mere location. There is already one major deception in the world concerning just who or what the rock being addressed in the verses under examination really represent. Which millions have and do continue to be deceived by. No one will be saved by considering the rock addressed to be Mount Herman itself. All will be saved who acknowledge the rock to be our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who alone is the rock of our salvation, for all who choose to believe in and follow His most perfect example.

Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. 38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. 42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. 45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

Let us not contribute today, in any way, to the rejection of this stone unto destruction. For all who would reject and or replace this stone, or this rock, will have the kingdom of God taken away from them.

[Jaime]

Think the place called the gates of  hell versus the spiritual gates of hell. Jesus'point was NOT that the physical place called the gates of hell near Ceasarea Phillipi would not prevail over the church, but the evil it epitomized would not. Jesus took them to that place to drill into their heads a truth about the Church and evil. It was NOT a lesson about a cave in a cliff. The place  brought a picture clear to their minds. The Jewish/Eastern mind deals and communicates in pictures versus concepts like our Western minds. How better to demonstrate to the diciples they have nothing to fear from the place they avoided like the plague, nor do they have a reason to fear evil overcoming the worldwide Church Jesus is commissioning them to build. The place they went for the story was for their benefit in absorbing and applying Jesus' words.  Jesus had a purpose for every move he made in his training the disciples. I don't believe it was happenstance for him to take them out of  way to this repugnant location as devout Jews. It was an object lesson involving a picture of the evil they believed existed there and were raised to avoid at all cost. Jesus' message to them as curators of His early Church was fear not (what this place represents) for I have overcome the world.

[Jaime]

Amo, your message about the Rock is valid, no argument. I just think there are multiple lessons to glean from this story. AND this place they were at was host to unspeakable evil. A force ultimatrly subjected to Jesus and his Church demonstrated in an object lesson to the disciples. AND because of the book of Enoch this place is  relative to the issue of Giants and Nephilim, the topic of this thread. I accept that the book of Enoch is not scripture,  but I definitely do believe it holds some value and insight. Your fopic about the Rock would be an awesome aeparate topic. Go for it!

[Amo]

I won't argue that the place of Christ's declaration of what His Church is built upon has no significance. Only stress that without question, who His Church is built upon, is the very most important detail to know.

I have never bought into the old fallen angels mating with the women of fallen humanity thing. The world is filled with the remains of countless creatures, many still prevalent today, who were much larger in the past than they are now. There was no "supernatural" mechanism necessary to this apparently, so why would humanity be any different? The world was obviously far more conducive to what we would consider giantism today, in the past. This is agreed to by evolutionists and creationists alike. Accepting humans of course, whom evolutionists simply do not believe existed at such a time.

https://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/early-earth/larger-organisms/

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/salim-y-tannous-b5a073213_a-limited-number-of-areas-are-undisputed-activity-7281665001717698560-Nhsr?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios&rcm=ACoAADdUzDcByCxZ9dhxoBKGRKCmJmSShbd8Vt0

The video was interesting, but where did you find this guy?  His page is full of anti-Israel pro-Palestine stuff.

[Amo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-WKE0FIdvs

Ancient Stone Structures: Evidence Against Evolution? | David Rives' Thoughts on GSR

[Jaime]

The video was interesting, but where did you find this guy?  His page is full of anti-Israel pro-Palestine stuff.

Somebody sent me the link. I don't do any research much on a writers background. It's the coracity of the story that counts to me. I don't typically filter things too much if they have an interesting theme. A stopped clock is  right twice a day, right? 🤓 if we all filtered everything to the nth degree, it would remove most fodder for discussion. Him being anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian would be A factor, but certainly no reason to theownout a story inrelated to this topic, that I could discern anyway.

[Rella]

This was on Youtube, following my morning church that is broadcast there.

It is new to me.. I think.... unless I am forgetting things now.  . Some does seem familiar but not all.

Title: A Race of Giants

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR5i0lI3xrw&t=981s

You may need to move that little red dot to the left to get to the beginning.

@Amo, @Wycliffes-Shillelagh, @DaveW, @Jaime,

Amo, I do hope this opens for you...........

Well, now I see a possible link to the proof of bigfoot. If they can come up with one linking Nessie, I will be happy. ... maybe.

[Amo]

Yea, you still have to sign in, as youtube has labeled the video unrated. Cause it might only be suitable for mature audiences. Which is probably a load of dung.

[Rella]

Yea, you still have to sign in, as youtube has labeled the video unrated. Cause it might only be suitable for mature audiences. Which is probably a load of dung.

I dont understand that.

I dont have to sign in. I never had any kind of a youtube account.

My church broadcasts the sermons on Youtube and it was while watching the service this came up the side ... kind of like a thumbnail so after church was done I clicked on it and it has so really really new stuff for me.

First half I have seen on and off over the years....

BUT... if it is unrated then it is suitable for all audiences...
It shows bones, and people at digs, and talk of various locations, and all the native American locations, and those around the world, and of the Smithsonian, and you cannot hardly walk away from this one
thinking there is nothing to it.

Unless you have a VPN?

I have to run out but when I am back Ill see if there is other links or a link other then Youtube.

[Rella]

@Amo

Try this one as it came from the drop down in my search

https://tubitv.com/movies/418130/a-race-of-giants

It is a different link for the same video... and still might need to move that red dot to the left to get it to the beginning???

[Amo]

Looks like that one works. I'll check it out later. Thanks.

[Amo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZjU_hioDfQ

If the above video among others concerning the discovery of huge structures deep under the Pyramids turns out to be true, present evolutionary and historical narratives and time scales will have to radically change.

I predict - 1.  another movement of evolutionary time scales to include much earlier dates of human development to allow for such major accomplishments by humans so far back in time under present models.

2. More Alien influence and tech. conspiracy theories.

3. More cyclical human development and catastrophic end scenarios.

4. More evidence supporting my own views, A. that the antediluvians were giants compared to people today, both physically and intellectually. B. Capable of such tremendous feats as those we find the remains of all over the world, which have even been built upon by past civilizations who claimed their accomplishments as their own. C. The post flood descendants of which were also so capable of such, that God intervened to prevent them from accomplishing their own evil designs  unto universal destruction again too soon. 

Gen 11:1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. 2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. 3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter. 4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. 5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. 6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. 8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. 9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

We were never a lower form of life, but to the contrary, perfect from the beginning. Having devolved since the fall and direct intervention of God in the destruction of that more perfect world by the judgment. And further interference by God at the Tower of Babel unto necessary divisive  measures to prevent a rapid repeat of humanities leaning unto evil, unto universal destruction once again.

[Amo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PADK6Qq2hgk&t=79s

More about buried structures in Egypt. Concerning the ancient megalithic labyrinths many historians referred to.

[Rella]

This is well worth the time to watch for new info as well as some old.

The Nephilim - Was There a Giant Problem in America?

@Amo

This is a Youtube video so I am not sure you will be able to see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlxROOvmNuk

It can also be seen here by clicking on the arrow where you see the native americans...

https://charismanews.com/news/were-giants-real-new-evidence-links-biblical-nephilim-to-north-america/