"Church Fathers" Scriptural or Not

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

The Israel of today is the same as the Israel of the Bible.

I don't think I agree?  It kind of depends what you mean by "Israel."

The way God defines it seems to be in terms of belief and obedience.  Modern Israel is not that.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

More concerning Ignatius' seeming death wish. Salvation it would seem, by a literal death of martyrdom. I wonder, is martyrdom really martyrdom, if it is what one truly desires above all else? Does Holy Scripture call us to seek out, pray for, dwell upon, and ask our brethren to participate as well, with our martyrdom?

Martyrdom isn't just the dying part.  The more important part is the testimony of the condemned.

[garee]

Martyrdom isn't just the dying part.  The more important part is the testimony of the condemned.

its easy to see that some destroy the meaning of martyr and violite the warning not to add or subtract the original meaning  from one holy  word   Deuteronomy 4:2

The Original Meaning of "Martyr"

The Greek word μάρτυς (martys) literally means "witness." Nothing more and nothing less.

 The law of interpretation protects the one "author" and "finisher" "the one who gives his understanding --- do not add new meaning to one word. . It can change all the loving commandments.  Found in Deuteronomy 4:2 another at the end(Rev22) do not add or subtract.

Two working to protect the integrity of Christ the invisible author. The just and justifier our Holy father Christ

A martyr is anyone who testifies to the truth of God's Word, often at the cost of their life, but the emphasis is on faithful witness, not the act of dying itself.----all die in the end

In Sola Scriptural   John the Baptist, Stephen, and the apostles were martyrs because they witnessed God's truth, even unto death.

 Institutional confusion---- Catholic oral tradition  emphasizes suffering or death as a kind of works-righteousness making dying mankind venerable, praise worthy of prayer . .

This can falsely lead to a mindset where the act of dying for faith becomes a venerable merit, rather than faithfulness of Christ being the witness---  yoked with Christ .

True Christian witness is faithful living-- testifying to sola scriptura God's Word not achieving reward through martyrdom. In that way "let the dead bury the dead "

All Believers Are "Martyrs" in the true biblical sense. Every believer who testifies to God's living word--- whether through preaching , obedience, or enduring persecution, is a witness.(martyr ) Death may or may not occur, but the key is faithful testimony. Christ in us

In that sense, all believers are martyrs, because every life lived in obedience is a testimony to God.

The unseen witness of Christ must be mixed with that which is seen the temporal historical dying .  No unseen gospel version given to the father of lies .Not subject to the gospel . .His vision the tip of his lying nose what the eyes see  no hidden manna-- daily bread no understanding of the parables

[pppp]

Thank you Wycliffes_Shillelagh for your reply.

The Israel of today is the same as the Israel of the Bible.
The Children of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob by blood.

 The Holy Bible also mentions that ultimately all those who believe in Christ will also become the children of Abraham spiritually.

And so Israel will include  the present day Israel who are Children of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob by blood & the children of Abraham spiritually.

And so God loves both the Christians & the children of Abraham by blood.
And to understand this, one first needs to understand the nature of God.
The Holy Bible clearly teaches believers that God's promises are not like shifting shadows.
When He makes a promise, He already knows that He will not take them back.

And God already knows the future.
He made the beginning already knowing the future & before the future comes, He made the beginning.
This shows that when God promises, He knows exactly what He's doing.
And God doesn't do favouritism.
In whatever He does, He has a divine purpose.

So when He chose Israel, He already knew why He had chosen them above others.
He knew that through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob & Leah, would come Judah & through him, Our Blessed Saviour Jesus Christ.
The first time, Christ came, He came through Israel,
the children of Abraham through blood.
And the Second time again, Christ will come through the children of Abraham through blood.
And that's given in the Holy Bible.

That is why Scripture says, that after Satan along with his two evil accomplices comes to persecute the Jews,
Christ will come & throw the unholy trio in the abyss & save the Jewish community.
(Revelation 13, Revelation 20;7-10,)
And after seeing this, the Jewish people will begin to believe in the Blessed Messiah.
And so they along with the Christians, will also enter Heaven with an eternal life.
And so Israel will contain both the Jews who are children of Abraham through blood & the Christians who will believe in Our Lord Christ.
Thus the prophecy of God will be fulfilled according to Scripture.
Amen.
Ecclesiastes 3:1: "There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens."

Isaiah 60:22: "When the time is right, I, the Lord, will make it happen."

Habakkuk 2:3: "For the revelation awaits an appointed time; it speaks of the end and will not prove false. Though it linger, wait for it; it will certainly come and will not delay."


God's everlasting love for Israel (the children of Abraham through blood & the present & future Israel)

Deuteronomy 14:2 – "For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. Out of all the peoples on the face of the earth, the Lord has chosen you to be his treasured possession."

Deuteronomy 7:7-8 – "The Lord did not set his affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. But it was because the Lord loved you and kept the oath he swore to your ancestors." God chose them out of His own love and faithfulness.

Genesis 12:3 – "I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you." God promises protection and blessing to the descendants of Abraham.

Romans 11:1-2 – "Did God reject his people? By no means!... God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew."
Romans 11:29 – "For God's gifts and his call are irrevocable."

Jeremiah 31:35-37 tells about God's commitment to the nation of Israel.
God compares His commitment to the nation of Israel just like the fixed laws the sun, moon, and stars,
stating that only if these natural laws ever fail will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before Him.

And since these laws will never fail, so God's love for the nation of Israel (the children of Abraham through blood), will remain forever.
Amen.