The Church That Jesus Started

[bibleteacher]

The Bible plainly reads that Jesus started His Own Church 2000 years ago. In fact, the Church is mentioned more than 100 times in the Bible.

Mt:16:18:
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus said those who refuse to obey His CHurch are to be considered heathens

Mt:18:17:
And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.

Priests were ordained in every Church

Acts:14:23:
And when they had ordained to them priests in every church and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, in whom they believed.

The Sacrament of Confirmation was practiced by the Church

Acts:16:5:
And the churches were confirmed in faith and increased in number daily.

The Bishops ruled the Church of God in the first century, just as they do today.

Acts:20:28:
Take heed to yourselves and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the Church of God which he hath purchased with his own blood.

The Church is the pillar of truth

1Tm:3:15:
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

[fanuvmxpx]

Catholicism, our spiritual leaders touch little boys, obviously we have it all figured out and are discerning the scriptures correctly.

[bibleteacher]

Catholicism, our spiritual leaders touch little boys, obviously we have it all figured out and are discerning the scriptures correctly.

Actually, the protestants have 170 times more convictions for child molestation.

[OldDad]

Catholicism, our spiritual leaders touch little boys, obviously we have it all figured out and are discerning the scriptures correctly.

Actually, the protestants have 170 times more convictions for child molestation.

Sure, because the Romanists preferred to cover it up, and move the pedophile priests to new churches where they could molest others.

[fanuvmxpx]

The true protestants...the ones who seek Jesus and don't simply claim Him...have zero convictions for child molestation.

[bibleteacher]

Catholicism, our spiritual leaders touch little boys, obviously we have it all figured out and are discerning the scriptures correctly.

Actually, the protestants have 170 times more convictions for child molestation.

Sure, because the Romanists preferred to cover it up, and move the pedophile priests to new churches where they could molest others.

In your dreams 

Below is a link to 100s of protestant molestation cases in just one short year
http://www.reformation.com/CSA/variousabuse.html

[Stilts]

Just to note,

bibleteacher, what version are you using?

In my version Acts 14:23 reads elders, not priests.  We read in Hebrews that Jesus is the high priest, and that all Christians are priests.

[bibleteacher]

The true protestants...the ones who seek Jesus and don't simply claim Him...have zero convictions for child molestation.

True Christians BELIEVE Jesus.

The Bible mentions Jesus' Church more than 100 times in the NT, and I've posted a few of those verses. Rather than believe Jesus, you people continue to deny Him

[Tantor]

First of all you need to define what the word 'church' means within the context of when Jesus spoke.

The KJV and other 17th century translations purposefully mistranslated the word church to support their organizations (like the Catholic and Anglican churches) so they could centralize their power.

There were no churches in the first couple centuries in the form that we take for granted now... churches were cells of believers that met in peoples homes for fellowship and had either and elder or apostle handy to preach the gospel.

Church would better be rendered as assembly or congregation.. not a term that meant organized institution.

[Stilts]

tantor - There were no churches in the first couple centuries in the form that we take for granted now... churches were cells of believers that met in peoples homes for fellowship and had either and elder or apostle handy to preach them the gospel.

I agree that the setting then was not the same as it is now, but the organization should be.  Elders and deacons were part of the early organization of the assembly of believers (the church, if you will)

[Tantor]

tantor - There were no churches in the first couple centuries in the form that we take for granted now... churches were cells of believers that met in peoples homes for fellowship and had either and elder or apostle handy to preach them the gospel.

I agree that the setting then was not the same as it is now, but the organization should be.  Elders and deacons were part of the early organization of the assembly of believers (the church, if you will)

Ever been involved in a middle eastern culture family structure?

My daughter is married to a Pakistani Christian.. and the entire clan is christian. Some are penticostal, some luthern, some methodist, etc.  Within the scope of that community there are elders and deacons that serve the community and are not necessarily tied to a particular 'church'.  They are accountable to one another in spite of doctrinal differences and serve the needs of the entire community.

That is what I envision the bible to be talking about when it comes to the early church.  People are raised up by God to serve the christian community with their given gifts.. regardless of 'church' affiliation.

[fanuvmxpx]

True Christians BELIEVE Jesus.

The Bible mentions Jesus' Church more than 100 times in the NT, and I've posted a few of those verses. Rather than believe Jesus, you people continue to deny Him

And my God said that church is where 2 or more are gathered in His name. Therefore, Catholicism cannot be 'the only church' by default. In fact, church could be in a park with 2 friends simply united in Christ with no 'church organization' affiliation.

[bibleteacher]

Just to note,

bibleteacher, what version are you using?

In my version Acts 14:23 reads elders, not priests.  We read in Hebrews that Jesus is the high priest, and that all Christians are priests.

The greek word is presbuteroi, and any Greek will tell you that it means Priest.

We have to be careful about which Bibles that we use; if we want to know what Jesus said, we should the bible that came out of the Church that He personally started. Jesus did warn us that false preachers will come and deceive many people. They use mistranslated bibles as one of their tools of deception.

The Douay Rheims Version was publsihed by the very same Church that wrote the Scriptures in the first century, and then established the canon of the Bible in the 5th century, and published the DRV in the 15th century

[Tantor]

presbuteroi = presbyters... not priests.

I tend to think the original church were Presbyterians :)

Where do you come up with so many historical lies?... did they forceably brain wash you?

Jesus started the universal church (catholic church)... not the Roman Catholic church (the great impostor).

[bibleteacher]

True Christians BELIEVE Jesus.

The Bible mentions Jesus' Church more than 100 times in the NT, and I've posted a few of those verses. Rather than believe Jesus, you people continue to deny Him

And my God said that church is where 2 or more are gathered in His name. Therefore, Catholicism cannot be 'the only church' by default. In fact, church could be in a park with 2 friends simply united in Christ with no 'church organization' affiliation.

Lutherans believe in a god that luther created in his own image.
Baptists believe in a god that john smith and thomas hewlys created in their own image
Mormons believe in a god that joe smith created in his own image
JWs believe in a god that Charles russel created in his own image.

Jesus is not present with those who gather in the names of man-made gods. Jesus said those who profess the doctrines of men are wasting their time offering Him worship

Mt:15:9: And in vain do they worship me, teaching doctrines and commandments of men.

1Jn:4:5:
They are of the world. Therefore of the world they speak: and the world heareth them.

The lutheran jesus is not the same as the mormon or baptist jesus. Obviously none of them exist, they are merely creations of the people who made up their religions.

Jesus is present with those who believe in Jesus as taught by His Apostles.

Jn:17:9:
I pray for them(Apostles). I pray not for the world, but for them whom thou hast given me: because they are thine.
Jn:17:20:
And not for them (Apostles)only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me.

1Jn:4:6:
 We (Jesus Church)are of God. He that knoweth God heareth us. He that is not of God heareth us not. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

[Tantor]

I thought you have the corner on man made gods... you guys have statues you make offerings to and pray to all over your churches.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

presbuteroi = presbyters... not priests.

I prefer "elders" as it actually gives a sense of what the word means..."aged people."

Hiereus is the Greek word that means priest.

[bibleteacher]

presbuteroi = presbyters... not priests.

I prefer "elders" as it actually gives a sense of what the word means..."aged people."

Hiereus is the Greek word that means priest.

Ask a Greek what presbutroi means, I'm sure the Greeks know more about their language than you do 

[Tantor]

Current Greek != Koinea Greek.

[ozell]

author=bibleteacher link=topic=36166.msg660697#msg660697 date=1245790394]
The Bible plainly reads that Jesus started His Own Church 2000 years ago. In fact, the Church is mentioned more than 100 times in the Bible.

The chruch was started in the wilderness with Moses and Israel!

this is written!!!

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

there was not one Catholic, or her daughters the Orthodox and Protestants.   

[bibleteacher]

author=bibleteacher link=topic=36166.msg660697#msg660697 date=1245790394]
The Bible plainly reads that Jesus started His Own Church 2000 years ago. In fact, the Church is mentioned more than 100 times in the Bible.

The chruch was started in the wilderness with Moses and Israel!

this is written!!!

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

there was not one Catholic, or her daughters the Orthodox and Protestants.   

Please read the chapter, that is referring to the Mosaic church. Jesus brought a new Covenant and said
Mt:16:18:
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

"I will build my church" The Church is the people who have accepted and obey the Covenant Jesus offered. The Covenant is called the Catholic Covenant because it is for Jews and Gentiles.

The term One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church describes Jesus' Church. It was never called the One Holy Protestant & Apostolic Church, nor was it ever called the One Holy Orthodox and Apostolic Church.

You can reject truth, but you can't make the truth void

[Tantor]

If only the Catholic Church were the church that Peter founded you might have a point.

If you look past the rewriting of history that the ROMAN catholic church is so fond of and glean the truth, you will see that the Romans are nothing more than impostors.

If the legitimacy that the Catholic Church claims were challenged in a court of law.. the eastern orthodox churches would win the law suit hands down.

[bibleteacher]

If only the Catholic Church were the church that Peter founded you might have a point.

If you look past the rewriting of history that the ROMAN catholic church is so fond of and glean the truth, you will see that the Romans are nothing more than impostors.

If the legitimacy that the Catholic Church claims were challenged in a court of law.. the eastern orthodox churches would win the law suit hands down.

If you ever bother to get an education in CHristian history, you'll find Jesus started the One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church, complete with the office of Pope. You won't find any One Holy Orthodox and Apostolic Church.

The Orthodox abandoned the Catholic Church and the office of Pope.

You make yourself look foolish by opining about subjects you never bothered to learn

[Tantor]

If only the Catholic Church were the church that Peter founded you might have a point.

If you look past the rewriting of history that the ROMAN catholic church is so fond of and glean the truth, you will see that the Romans are nothing more than impostors.

If the legitimacy that the Catholic Church claims were challenged in a court of law.. the eastern orthodox churches would win the law suit hands down.

If you ever bother to get an education in CHristian history, you'll find Jesus started the One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church, complete with the office of Pope. You won't find any One Holy Orthodox and Apostolic Church.

The Orthodox abandoned the Catholic Church and the office of Pope.

You make yourself look foolish by opining about subjects you never bothered to learn

The bible says it is better for a fool to stay silent then to speak and let the whole world know his is a fool.. its something that would do you well to heed.

Tell me where in the bible does it mention the office of Pope?

[ozell]

Please read the chapter, that is referring to the Mosaic church. Jesus brought a new Covenant and said
Mt:16:18:
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

"I will build my church" The Church is the people who have accepted and obey the Covenant Jesus offered. The Covenant is called the Catholic Covenant because it is for Jews and Gentiles.

what do you read here?

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

so which church was around first?

[ozell]

The term One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church describes Jesus' Church. It was never called the One Holy Protestant & Apostolic Church, nor was it ever called the One Holy Orthodox and Apostolic Church.

Catholic, nor Apostolic can't be found in the bible

here is truth!

1Corithians 10v1: Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2: And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3: And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4: And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

[bibleteacher]

The term One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church describes Jesus' Church. It was never called the One Holy Protestant & Apostolic Church, nor was it ever called the One Holy Orthodox and Apostolic Church.

Catholic, nor Apostolic can't be found in the bible

here is truth!

1Corithians 10v1: Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2: And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3: And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4: And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

I quoted Jesus own words, yet you simply ignore what Jesus said about building His Church, and continue to press on your insinuation about some other church.

Jesus said: Mt:16:18:
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

I've noticed that you people simply ignore most of the Bible because you don't agree with it.

[Tantor]

Still no mention of the office of Pope nor the mention of the Catholic Church...

Answer the question.. where in the bible does it specify the office of the Pope?

In the Old Testament, God was very specific about his priesthood.. so specific that he personally ordered what they were to wear and how they were to minister to him.

Did God make a huge mistake in the New Testament by not doing the same with the church?... or did he never mean to have a huge organized church?..

If the office of Pope is not in the scriptures and the mention of Apostolic succession is not in the scriptures then the observance of them as a religious institution is a SIN.

[bibleteacher]

Still no mention of the office of Pope nor the mention of the Catholic Church...

Answer the question.. where in the bible does it specify the office of the Pope?

In the Old Testament, God was very specific about his priesthood.. so specific that he personally ordered what they were to wear and how they were to minister to him.

Did God make a huge mistake in the New Testament by not doing the same with the church?... or did he never mean to have a huge organized church?..

If the office of Pope is not in the scriptures and the mention of Apostolic succession is not in the scriptures then the observance of them as a religious institution is a SIN.

Obviously Tantor is not interested in truth, as made evident in his many posts, he attempts to side-step the truths of Scripture by babbling on about the pope is not mentioned in Scripture.

Tantor was told that the word Trinity is not mentioned in Scripture either, but the Trinity is a truth. Tantor was told that the Bible plainly reads that Jesus sent His Church (the 11 Apostles) to teach all people (Matt28:16-20), til the end of time. Tantor ignored this Scripture also. Why? Because Tantor doesn't agree with the Scriptures, so he simply side-steps them.

The Kingdom of God is for the people who will believe the Scriptures and abide in the Word of God.

The Scriptures plainly reveal a Church that has authority over the flock of Christ. St. Paul excommunicated persons like Tantor, who made up their own beliefs and gods. The truth is the truth, and Tantor's denial of it will not make it void.

Anybody can research Christian history and find that there were (5) Popes in the first century. They will find that the Church was named the Catholic Church, the One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church.

I pray that God will have mercy on people like Tantor, and deliver them from the bonds of sin

[phoebe]

Just to note,

bibleteacher, what version are you using?

In my version Acts 14:23 reads elders, not priests.  We read in Hebrews that Jesus is the high priest, and that all Christians are priests.

The greek word is presbuteroi, and any Greek will tell you that it means Priest.

We have to be careful about which Bibles that we use; if we want to know what Jesus said, we should the bible that came out of the Church that He personally started. Jesus did warn us that false preachers will come and deceive many people. They use mistranslated bibles as one of their tools of deception.

The Douay Rheims Version was publsihed by the very same Church that wrote the Scriptures in the first century, and then established the canon of the Bible in the 5th century, and published the DRV in the 15th century

No, "any Greek" won't tell you that. presbyteros means elder - of office, rank or of age. Context tells which. "priest" is not one of the possibilities.


Wondered where your posts got off to. Guess they filed you away under "Catholic".

[phoebe]

If only the Catholic Church were the church that Peter founded you might have a point.

If you look past the rewriting of history that the ROMAN catholic church is so fond of and glean the truth, you will see that the Romans are nothing more than impostors.

If the legitimacy that the Catholic Church claims were challenged in a court of law.. the eastern orthodox churches would win the law suit hands down.

If you ever bother to get an education in CHristian history, you'll find Jesus started the One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church, complete with the office of Pope. You won't find any One Holy Orthodox and Apostolic Church.

The Orthodox abandoned the Catholic Church and the office of Pope.

You make yourself look foolish by opining about subjects you never bothered to learn

[zoonance]

I do appreciate the Catholic perspective on their Thread!  Dialogue (not character assination) is good.  Thanks for sharing your insight.

[trifecta]

If only the Catholic Church were the church that Peter founded you might have a point.

If you look past the rewriting of history that the ROMAN catholic church is so fond of and glean the truth, you will see that the Romans are nothing more than impostors.

If the legitimacy that the Catholic Church claims were challenged in a court of law.. the eastern orthodox churches would win the law suit hands down.

Thank you, Tantor you are indeed right in that last sentence!

If you ever bother to get an education in CHristian history, you'll find Jesus started the One Holy Catholic & Apostolic Church,

bibleteacher,  close but no cigar.  Your education not quite there yet, but hang in there.  The last sentence above is true, but . . .

complete with the office of Pope.

No, the term pope comes along later--originally with St. Anathasius --of Alexandria!   But that is a technicality.   Your are correct in that the Bishops of Rome go back to the beginning--but they held a position of honor, not authority in the early church.

You won't find any One Holy Orthodox and Apostolic Church.

But Tantor is right, you won't find the word Roman in the creed as well.  And yes, we do consider ourselves Catholic in the sense of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.   What was the name of the faith in the early church?   The Orthodox faith-- you got the term Catholic in the Great Schism, we got the word Orthodox.   It's just a word--don't get hung up on it.  

Where does the term One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church come from?  The Nicean Creed, which you all changed unilaterally.

The Orthodox abandoned the Catholic Church and the office of Pope.

Guilty! and we don't regret it.   Remember too that the Coptic Church also has a pope.  The Pope (of Rome) having universal authority over the whole church?   Yeah, we couldn't go for that.  The early church didn't either.   bibleteacher and Tantor: Come back to that church, the church that Jesus started.   The Orthodox Church

Blessings to you (both)!

[ozell]

I quoted Jesus own words, yet you simply ignore what Jesus said about building His Church, and continue to press on your insinuation about some other church.

Jesus said: Mt:16:18:
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

I've noticed that you people simply ignore most of the Bible because you don't agree with it.

BT

why did the Lord build his Church with Peter when it was already established in the wilderness with Israel?

take note

Peter is a Israelite the descendant of the inhabitants of the first church

[wayne]

The Bible plainly reads that Jesus started His Own Church 2000 years ago. In fact, the Church is mentioned more than 100 times in the Bible.

Mt:16:18:
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus said those who refuse to obey His CHurch are to be considered heathens

Mt:18:17:
And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.

Priests were ordained in every Church

Acts:14:23:
And when they had ordained to them priests in every church and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, in whom they believed.

The Sacrament of Confirmation was practiced by the Church

Acts:16:5:
And the churches were confirmed in faith and increased in number daily.

The Bishops ruled the Church of God in the first century, just as they do today.

Acts:20:28:
Take heed to yourselves and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the Church of God which he hath purchased with his own blood.

The Church is the pillar of truth

1Tm:3:15:
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

hey, you keep saying .."the church" . which church are you talking about? what church did god establish? someone came to my house and told me that jehovas witness was the only true church. so i joined them