Why Porn???

[lonegreywolf20]

I find it difficult to accept porn is bad, when women are being internally examined by male doctors, surely that is more unethical than viewing porn. 

Not this again!

[concerned]

Not that type of reply again.

[lonegreywolf20]

Not that type of reply again.

We just had a poster who was condemning husbands because husbands were allowing their wives to be seen by male doctors. It bothered him, so surely it must bother every other husband out there.

It doesn't bother me in the least. I worked in the medical field as well as volunteered in it, both as an EMT. I have seen inside the medical field and know what it's like. All the doctors I met were honorable men in three different states where I have gone into hospitals and doctor's offices as an EMT. Are there bad apples out there? Sure! Thing is though, there are bad apples everywhere in everything.

Then there's the fact that the ratio of men to woman doctors is still quite out of proportion. Then you have to find one that you can trust in. It's not just as easy is saying, ok... I must find a woman doctor, so that one there looks good I'll go to her. There has to be trust and a likeness involved as well.

[concerned]

Brother you need to research and read my posts properly, especially if you think I am a one off. If you are yours are happy that is cool, but all peeps are not!



GL

[lonegreywolf20]

I never said that others weren't happy, but I got a bad taste in my mouth from the other person's posts.

He said that we all need to feel like he feels and would condemn anyone that went against the way he felt.

I'm sorry if I inferred the same unto you, it wasn't my intention. I just seen the same type of post and thought the same thing again.

[mark s]

Hi Concerned,

What blows my mind is that you justify spiritual and emotional adultery, in the form of pornography, on the basis that there are worse things being done in the world.  

And you make the argument that man is polygamous anyway, so why try to fight it!

Anyway, I started this thread to discuss the ramifications of pornography, and why it can be such a difficult habit to break.  This is based on the presupposition that it is in fact a bad habit, something that God stands against, and that God can deliver from.

If you wish to present the argument that pornography is OK, because it's what we do anyway, well, you certainly have a right to your opinion.  But I do not believe that your view is in agreement with Scripture.

But again, I started this thread to look at the topic from a completely different angle.

Love in Christ,
Mark

[concerned]

lonegreywolf, no worries I was comparing what I consider to be revelant to the statements over pornography, I tried to get things into perspective, comparing other intimate happenings, in modern medicine.

Did you know, if a women goes into a teaching hospital for an operation, often student doctors carry out pelvic examinations, without authorisation or patient consent.

I offered this to compare, what is looking' against looking and touching.

[concerned]

mark s, I agree part of my post was out of kilt, I'm sure most will understand my points of view though, I consider it a valid one.

My views are from life experience, we have nothing else to go on, until its to late.

Let me pose another question mentioned in my post to lonegreywolf.

Is it OK for groups of doctors to carry out pelvic examinations on anaesthetised women, with no consent, they look and touch, in teaching hospitals, how does that compare with viewing pornography.

Some say not that subject again, but I believe we should consider both, in other words if porn is wrong, how do we stand on the other subject !!!!!!

[lonegreywolf20]

lonegreywolf, no worries I was comparing what I consider to be revelant to the statements over pornography, I tried to get things into perspective, comparing other intimate happenings, in modern medicine.

Did you know, if a women goes into a teaching hospital for an operation, often student doctors carry out pelvic examinations, without authorisation or patient consent.

I offered this to compare, what is looking' against looking and touching.

I am going to have to respectfully disagree that there is no prior auth/consent for teaching hospitals. The only time that there is no prior auth/consent is when the patient is unable to give it. It then is no longer informed consent, it's implied consent. Emergency rooms, paramedics and EMTs deal with this the most though. I would guess that if a operation is taking place any form that you sign will also include consent if anything were to go wrong and to what extent they can try to work on you to fix whatever happens.

[mark s]

mark s, I agree part of my post was out of kilt, I'm sure most will understand my points of view though, I consider it a valid one.

My views are from life experience, we have nothing else to go on, until its to late.

Let me pose another question mentioned in my post to lonegreywolf.

Is it OK for groups of doctors to carry out pelvic examinations on anaesthetised women, with no consent, they look and touch, in teaching hospitals, how does that compare with viewing pornography.

Some say not that subject again, but I believe we should consider both, in other words if porn is wrong, how do we stand on the other subject !!!!!!

Hi Concerned,

So then it's more that you wish to make this thread about the morality/advisability of cross-gendered medical examinations?

We are agreed that viewing pornography for the purpose of fulfilling fleshly lusts is wrong?  Is pornography wrong?

Love in Christ,
Mark

[concerned]

mark s We need to get our priorities right IMHO, if one is wrong, the other must be.

There has to be a difference between looking and touching, I find it difficult to accept one is wrong and the other right.

What is wrong with looking, we look at an attractive women, man is man its natural, man has testosterone driving him, its part of his natural make up, he has a duty in life lol.

The problem we have today is the sheep effect, where things carry on because of social situations and acceptance by many, most feel under pressure to conform...................

Peace brother.

[concerned]

lonegreywolf, if you do a little research you find my post is correct, that is an accepted procedure in teaching hospitals.

You can read reference to it, in the nhs pages, it also happens in many other countries.

I have numerous links and research on this subject, my main reason for posting, is to high light what I consider wrong, but unfortunately accepted in many teaching hospitals.

I recently read an article from a lady poster who came out of anaesthesia feeling aroused, comparing this to pornography is paramount imo, especially for those who agree with one and not the other.

Research is hard to find because people close ranks, but it is real, with a fat wallet, large home and fast car accompanied by a large pension, who would admit to certain unethical
procedures.

Best wishes.

[mark s]

Truly, there is another reason why so many view pornography. 

Aside from the habit, even addiction, aside from the chemical rush, the emotional denial, the coveting, aside from all of that . . .

There are those who just don't think there is anything really wrong with it.

It's sad.

Our children are receiving the message, "It's OK, everybody does it."  They are led like sheep to the slaughter.

Love in Christ,
Mark

[concerned]

mark s there are many things wrong in the world, imo pornography is low on the agenda.

I high-lighted the hospital thingy, what about indiscriminate bombing by troops sent to war by governments. On recent news a doctor viewing child pornography allowed to carry on practicing--------practicing being the important word.

IMHO looking touching doing are all very different things.

[mark s]

Hi Concerned,

I'm not saying that pornography is the only thing wrong in this world.  I'm not attempting to address every evil in this one thread.

But neither am I soft-pedaling something that has destroyed, and continues to destroy many marriages and lives.

If you do not think that pornography is a problem, this is not the thread for you.  I'm certain there are other threads, or perhaps you might simply start one, to discuss those things that are on your mind.

My intent here is to give information to those who are interested.  There are reasons why sometimes overcoming particular behaviors is difficult, and sometimes knowing more is helpful.

Love in Christ,
Mark

[concerned]

 As I said before, there are many underlying problems effecting marriage imho porn may be a small part of it, but an added problem is male doctors examining our wives internally, without us being present, that effects lots of men and can helps to destroy the relationship, causing resentment in many. Most women accept it as normal as their predecessors did, as the done thing, modern day society stuff.

Sorry to repeat, problems lie at different depths in the mind, often we no not why, we are effected and it builds without our knowledge. So problems are layered and can build, perhaps pornography is part of it, but some women aren't concerned, if their partner views it.

IYO Should I start a new thread for debate, women are often aggressive against this subject, possibly because they don't want others to consider they accepted anything unethical.

GL with your theory or reality ??

[jsnoke]

my porn addiction lead me to adult freind finder's website. i went to the home page, but no further, i closed it out before entering.
my wife saw on my history that i went to the site, even though i told her i did not enter, she is kicking me out tonight.

[jsnoke]

what do i do?

[mark s]

Hi jsnoke,

Pray, and pray, and then pray!  Seek God's wisdom - He will supply it to you.

Do you fellowship in a church?  More to the point, do you have a pastor who knows you both?  My first suggestion would be to talk to them, first privately, then, hopefully, with your wife.

Trust can be very difficult to rebuild once broken, but it can sometimes be done.  See how quickly you can receive counsel from a spiritual leader who knows you both.

For you, you need to understand why you've been involved with pornography, and how that has affected your ability to be honest and vulnerable to your wife.

Like any addiction, you need to get completely away from it, and if that means canceling your internet, or taking an ax to your computer, then that's a good trade.

Have you heard of "The Love Dare"?  It's the idea within the movie, "Fireproof".  I would suggest getting a copy of the book, and work through it's program.

Love in Christ,
Mark

[concerned]

jsnoke.  Don't go, exercise your rights, its a joint home, looking is not touching or making direct contact with another persons body, your partner has nothing to fear imho.

Do you complain if your partner is examined by a male doctor, probably not, which is worse? looking or touching.

Stand your ground, you did nothing wrong, our eyes see many things in life, god gave us them for that purpose.

Peace brother.

GL.

[Yakuza]

Porn really isn't evil, its just entertainment to look at to past the time. And it definitely helps out guys who have a hard time getting a woman

[Thankfulldad]

Porn really isn't evil, its just entertainment to look at to past the time. And it definitely helps out guys who have a hard time getting a woman

Here we go again

Porn is lust to the nineth degree; it will destroy your life...

[concerned]

Here we go again, yes we do, cos I will repeat my posts. Watching porn involves no touching, visuals only. If porn is bad for us, what about male doctors looking and touching our partner in private places. Surely that is worse, unless someone can convince me, a doctor is not a normal man with mans desires. Please do not say a doctor does it 24/7, so it doesn't turn him on, because if that was the case, we would lose interest in our partners after years of marriage.

GL all........

[Memphis Dwight]

mark s,
I wish I had the ability to respond to your first post to me in this thread.  Or to any of the other posts that you have made.  But I cannot.  The reason I cannot is because your whole take on the fleshly lusts is so very off kilter.    I can see that in your head there exists a sturdy framework where your interpretation makes perfect sense to you and probably to many that have unconsciously inherited a calvinistic/gnostic/ascetic view of 'the flesh.'

If you could have just one little glimpse into how lacking in biblical evidence there is for your belief system, it would truly shock you.  

When King David was old and decrepit, his loyal subjects wanted to rejuvenate him to his former strength.  So they went out and found a pretty young virgin to sleep with him.  But he was too old and impotent.  This can be found in the first chapter of 1 Kings.  

The thing is, the King's loyal subjects knew about his previous strong libido. And so did God.  Not only did God never reprimand King David for his virility, He actually reminded King David that it was Him who gave the women in the first place, 2 Sam 12:8   Out of the dozen or more women that we know of that David slept with, the only one that ever drew any condemnation from God was Bathsheba and that was because she was married.  1 Kings 15:5 reads: Because David did [that which was] right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any [thing] that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

Did you read that?  It says David did right in the eyes of the LORD except in that other matter.  So when David was banging all those wives and concubines, God was approving.  

If what I've shown you does not give you cause to rethink your quasi-monastic worldview, then it just reinforces what I said the opening sentence up top about not being able to converse with you on this because you are so off kilter.    

[concerned]

Memphis Dwight

Most of us are off kilter with the real world today imho.....priorities wrong, focusing on the wrong things, such is life

Best wishes peace......

concerned

[Follower]

Personally I don't think pornography/wet dreams is normal.   It is rather an outflow from our mind's library of perceiving wrong things or something wrong in our spirit.
All men struggling with temptation you can maybe visit the following link:
www.menofhonour.co.za
Hope it helps.

[Seva]

i would not want my grandma, mom, wife, daughter, grandaughter, sister, nieces, etc.. helping you get off. Porn is very evil. If you don't think so then sacrifrice your own daughter and wife so others can relieve themselves by taking pictures and posting them on the net.
It is a sick way to think, but when your drug is filling your void, you can justify anything.

blessings

[mark s]

Hi Memphis Dwight,

I'm not really sure what your idea of "a calvinistic/gnostic/ascetic view of the flesh" is.  I'm looking at the Scriptures, which speak of the lusts of the flesh, compared and contrasted to the spiritual life.  Galatians 5 is one such chapter, 1 Corinthians has a fair amount on the subject.  It's actually in a number of places in Scripture.

If you could have just one little glimpse into how lacking in biblical evidence there is for your belief system, it would truly shock you.

This is something that you'd really have to substantiate. 

OK, to specific cases:
 

When King David was old and decrepit, his loyal subjects wanted to rejuvenate him to his former strength.  So they went out and found a pretty young virgin to sleep with him.  But he was too old and impotent.  This can be found in the first chapter of 1 Kings.

The thing is, the King's loyal subjects knew about his previous strong libido. And so did God.  Not only did God never reprimand King David for his virility, He actually reminded King David that it was Him who gave the women in the first place, 2 Sam 12:8

Is this an accurate representation of Scripture?  You tell me . . . what was the purpose, as stated in the Scriptures, for bringing this young woman to David's bed?

1 Kings 1:1-4
(1)  And King David was old, going on in days. And they covered him with clothes, but he got no heat.
(2)  And his servants said to him, Let there be sought for my lord the king a young virgin. And let her stand before the king, and let her nurse him, and let her lie in your bosom, so that my lord the king may get heat.
(3)  And they sought out a beautiful girl throughout all the borders of Israel, and found Abishag, a Shunammite. And they brought her to the king.
(4)  And the girl was very beautiful. And she nursed the king and served him. But the king did not know her.

Does this passage say that David was impotent?  No, it simply states he did not have sex with her.

Was the woman brought to David to have sex with him?  No, she was brought to keep him warm.  He had been unable to keep warm.

Out of the dozen or more women that we know of that David slept with, the only one that ever drew any condemnation from God was Bathsheba and that was because she was married.  1 Kings 15:5 reads: Because David did [that which was] right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any [thing] that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

Did you read that?  It says David did right in the eyes of the LORD except in that other matter.  So when David was banging all those wives and concubines, God was approving.

If you take this passage as you are suggesting, not even David's affair with Bathsheba is condemned, only Uriah's murder. 

Do you think there might be more to this than what you are seeing, considering that God had also commanded that kings not multiply wives?  (see Deut. 17:17)

Is God conflicted within Himself?  Having commanded that the king not be polygamous, does He then approve of the king being polygamous? 

1 Chronicles 21 tells the story of when David had Joab take a military census of Israel, and verse 7 says that this was "evil in the eyes of God".

So I think we need to do a little critical thinking here. 

How should we understand the statement of 1 Kings 15:5?  Was it God's intent to say that David never did anything wrong excepting Uriah's murder?  Or could it be that though David in fact did other things that were wrong, for some reason they are not being held to his account in that passage?  Which makes better sense?

If what I've shown you does not give you cause to rethink your quasi-monastic worldview, then it just reinforces what I said the opening sentence up top about not being able to converse with you on this because you are so off kilter.    

So if I don't agree, it only means I'm blind?   Hmmm . . .


Love in Christ,
Mark

[Memphis Dwight]

Hi Memphis Dwight,

I'm not really sure what your idea of "a calvinistic/gnostic/ascetic view of the flesh" is.  I'm looking at the Scriptures, which speak of the lusts of the flesh, compared and contrasted to the spiritual life.  Galatians 5 is one such chapter, 1 Corinthians has a fair amount on the subject.  It's actually in a number of places in Scripture.

Yes, the bible does use the phrases, lust of the flesh, fleshly nature, etc etc.  But the one thing you've never done is make a cogent link between sexual fantasies/masturbation and the lusts of the flesh which is condemned here in Gal 5.  
I sometimes wonder if you are simply making the leap that since the masturbation is pleasurable and involves the flesh,  then it must be a lust of the flesh.  Using that logic, it would be wrong to scratch your back when it itches.  
After having read the very cogent explanation regarding the famous lust passage that I have posted on here, its inconceivable that you would cling to this idea that the this is what the bible is all about.  Where are all of your passages regarding sexual fantasies.   And if you use passages with the word Fornication in it, please show evidence to prove that masturbation is fornication.  
And there are so many other logical conflicts.  Like some say that masturbation is wrong is a man is single, but if doing it with his wife, then it is not sin.  And what if a man's wife divorces him and he fantasizes about her after divorce.  Is that wrong according to your mindset?  I'm just posing these to show the logical inconsistencies. 

Another inconsistency:  Some would say that a nocturnal emission is not wrong since a man has no control over it.  But should he wake up right before and take an active conscious part in it, then he is sinning.  Gimme an extra big break.  Please. 

When King David was old and decrepit, his loyal subjects wanted to rejuvenate him to his former strength.  So they went out and found a pretty young virgin to sleep with him.  But he was too old and impotent.  This can be found in the first chapter of 1 Kings.

The thing is, the King's loyal subjects knew about his previous strong libido. And so did God.  Not only did God never reprimand King David for his virility, He actually reminded King David that it was Him who gave the women in the first place, 2 Sam 12:8

Is this an accurate representation of Scripture?  You tell me . . . what was the purpose, as stated in the Scriptures, for bringing this young woman to David's bed?

   
This is indeed an accurate interpretation.  If not, why not.  If the first few verses were not enough, read further on and you will see that this young virgin was meant for King David.  

Does this passage say that David was impotent?  No, it simply states he did not have sex with her.
Was the woman brought to David to have sex with him?  No, she was brought to keep him warm.  He had been unable to keep warm.

This is precisely why you will never learn.  You like to play games.  By your interpretation method, Adam never had sex with Eve.  Because the bible says he knew her.   Didn't say he had sex with her.   Gimme a break.  


You come across to me as one that is involved in will worship.  You need to look at Colossians 2:18 and figure out how it relates to directly to the monastic influence that has been cleverly injected into the collective mindset of Christianity.    

[concerned]

Back to my original comments, it is fine talking about porn, but porn is looking not touching-end of. What about women, when they go to the hospital and a male doctors turns up, he accesses her body with fingers or metal objects, using ky etc. Is that porn? IMO that is far worse, looking, touching, feeling, penetrating a female sexual organ.

Is viewing porn so bad' in comparison defo not imho.

Peace brothers and open your eyes to reality.........

[Todd Grace]

Back to my original comments, it is fine talking about porn, but porn is looking not touching-end of. What about women, when they go to the hospital and a male doctors turns up, he accesses her body with fingers or metal objects, using ky etc. Is that porn? IMO that is far worse, looking, touching, feeling, penetrating a female sexual organ.

Is viewing porn so bad' in comparison defo not imho.

Peace brothers and open your eyes to reality.........
[/quot

Concerned,
You seem obsessed with women seeing a male OB-GYN. Having numerous women in my family who see a male doctor I can assure you there is nothing sexual about being examined.  Because of the threat of lawsuits a female nurse or assistant must be present. In addition to that a doctor typically sees hundreds of women a month, performs births, and surgeries. Like a surgical nurse doesn't flinch at the sight of blood, an OB thinks like any professional doing their job and has medical concerns only. You can rest assured a women would rather not have such examines but millions have had their lives saved and improved from regular visits. There is nothing [ sexual ] about an exam.

[concerned]

Todd Grace.

Exams done on women by male doctors has become an accepted procedure, due to others accepting it, pressure from the media and compliance stress in hospital environment, that does not mean it is right.

Porn is insignificant in comparison, there is no such thing as a doctor, he is a man, how would someone feel if I examined their partner, I have knowledge, lets put it to the test.

I don a white coat and put my badge on, what does that change, watching porn 24/7 does that stop further viewing.

My obsession is with reality about things that happen in the modern world, imho will not be tolerated as peeps become wiser. Not forgetting when in a hospital environment we feel under pressure to accept almost anything. Another issue women are being internally examined without consent, while sleeping after an op<

Question, do doctors carry out internall exams on men' while asleep after an op.

Any obsession here is porn imo<> porn is viewing only and does not interact with the male or female body. Is a doctor looking at porn while interacting/penetrating sexual organs.

Porn has always been out there, new technology has highlighted it, porn has become more accepted, more visible with the www boom.................We all know that.

I doubt the Lord will turn his back on peeps who look, thinking about things and doing are two different things imho. We all have bad thoughts at some point, we control them in today's civilised society, in most countries, obviously not all.

[larry2]

Do we really need scripture to know those things that are not good for us?

Job 31:1. "I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?"

Psalm 101:3. "I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me."

As with Paul, we are in a race to win Christ. Is porn one of the ways beneficial to that end?

[willy105]

but what's wrong with porn??? whats the bad thing about it?

[mark s]

but what's wrong with porn??? whats the bad thing about it?

What is it for?

Why do you look at it?