some wives believe husbands benefit if marriage is non sexual

[scullions]

im told women need sex with husbands but my experience is wives dont need sex like husbands do what is the truth?

[chosenone]

When you say 'in your experience', you mean in your own marriage do you? I think that you need to stop assuming that all women are like your wife because they arent. She is one lady out of trillions and billions. Maybe she has told you that all women are like her, so you believe it. Its not true.

Also going by the title that apparently some women  believe that husbands benefit if the marriage is non sexual, is that also something that your wife tells you as well? Of course it is nonsense. Married people are supposed to have sex, its the way God made us.I think that she is making lots of excuses to disobey God.

[DaveW]

There was a booklet that circulated around in the early days of the internet, purported to be the work of a Methodist minister's wife from the 1860s. Both the fact that it was in writing and the use of certain words and phrases puts it more in the early to mid 1900s. It was about how the good christian wife was to wean her husband off of the evils of sexual desire and activity. While I doubt that the document actually came from the 19th century, IMO it accurately described the mentality.

This was considered good and even godly doctrine under Victorianism.  But that was only in the western Christian english speaking world. It spawned a huge backlash in the 1960s in the form of the "Sexual Revolution" and the "New Morality."  So you go so far to the left to make up for leaning too far to the right.  Both are wrong.

It seems that the past and present situation such as the OP describes here and in other posts is a cultural carryover of that Victorian anti-sex attitude.  It is certainly not biological.

[Deborah4God]

I would not 'be okay' in a celibate marriage. It would be a huge struggle. How about that?

[chosenone]

There was a booklet that circulated around in the early days of the internet, purported to be the work of a Methodist minister's wife from the 1860s. Both the fact that it was in writing and the use of certain words and phrases puts it more in the early to mid 1900s. It was about how the good christian wife was to wean her husband off of the evils of sexual desire and activity. While I doubt that the document actually came from the 19th century, IMO it accurately described the mentality.

This was considered good and even godly doctrine under Victorianism.  But that was only in the western Christian english speaking world. It spawned a huge backlash in the 1960s in the form of the "Sexual Revolution" and the "New Morality."  So you go so far to the left to make up for leaning too far to the right.  Both are wrong.

It seems that the past and present situation such as the OP describes here and in other posts is a cultural carryover of that Victorian anti-sex attitude.  It is certainly not biological.

When I read that Dave I dont know whether to laugh or cry. Honestly satan has done well distorting sex, even to the point of making people think that it isnt 'spiritual' for a believer to have, let alone enjoy, sex. Sex is a gift for married people, and I for one will enjoy any gift that God gives.

[DaveW]

When I read that Dave I dont know whether to laugh or cry. Honestly satan has done well distorting sex, even to the point of making people think that it isnt 'spiritual' for a believer to have, let alone enjoy, sex. Sex is a gift for married people, and I for one will enjoy any gift that God gives.

Did you know that (to decrease sexual desire and activity) was the purpose that Dr John H Kellogg and Mr Charles W Post invented corn flakes? And Dr Sylvester Graham made his cracker?

They (Kelloggs and Post) were involved in early Seventh Day Adventist doctrine and they were very antisex.  So these men came up with these products to "help."  Dr Kellogg was outraged when his younger brother William started marketing the Corn Flakes for mass consumption. It was intended for couples to decrease their activity and for singles to not not have such a struggle with their desires (which he considered extremely sinful).

[chosenone]

So how do cornflakes and crackers decrease the sexual desire?

[DaveW]

So how do cornflakes and crackers decrease the sexual desire?

Good question. BUt that was their working theory back in the mid 1800s.


This discussion has reminded me of the spiritual connundrum of false teachings.  By way of this the devil can put us into a "sin if you do and sin if you don't" situation.

This wife believes that the physical desire and pleasure of sex is sinful.  So to her, since she cannot have sex in faith (truly believe God is wanting her to do it) she sins if she does it since it is not done in faith (whatsoever not from faith is sin).  But to NOT have sex with her husband she is in clear violation of 1 Cor 7 and therefore sins as well.  "sin if you do and sin if you don't"

[chosenone]

Also this husband is in an appalling position. He cant have sex with his wife, and he cant committ adultery because that is sin, so what does he do? If the marriage hasnt been consumated, then technically he isnt actually married, and can get an annullment. Not sure if this would apply if the man knew this before they married. I suppsoe that is a person wants sex, then dont marry a person who refuses to.
Its tragic that this womans opinion on sex is so terribly distorted. I am sure that God must be so sad about such unbiblical beliefs. Part of me wonders if what she says is an excuse because she just just doesnt want sex, but why bother getting married if you feel that way? No sex, no need to marry. You can just be friends and share a house.
I know a young man who had a girlfriend who stated that she didnt want sex and didnt want children.(obviously you cant have one without the other) Fortunately he knew that wasnt right, and he knew that he couldnt live with that, so he ended it. He is now happily married to another lady. Sensible lad. 

Next time I eat cornflakes, I will remember what you said Dave

[DaveW]

IN the Mishnah* (tractate ketubim**) which deals with all issues concerning marriage contracts (ketubim), it is recorded that during the 2nd temple period, the number of times a wife should expect her husband to satisfy her sexually was based on his job.  If he had a job that did not allow enough time and strength for him to keep her happy, she could sue in a rabbinic court to force him to change jobs so she could get more sex. If he refused, she could get a court order forcing him to divorce her.

There shoud be some kind of pastoral court set up for such a case as the OP's.


* Mishnah was the written down collection of the oral tradition to preserve 2nd temple Jewish life.  Published circa 200 ad

** It was divided into 60+ sections called Tractates. Each dealt with specific religious topics and legal matters.

[chosenone]

yes but the thing is that they havent got a church. I do know that my pastor would challenge her and show her what God actually says about it and he would also point out I am sure that she is putting her husband in the position of being very tempted sexually.Then if she still refused the consequenses are on her.

Recently my pastor had 3 couples in one week that he knew, whose marriage had ended due to ádultery . Shortly afterwards he recommended lots of sex between a man and his wife to help stop any temptations.

[DaveW]

Kudos to your pastor.  That is great!

And EXACTLY what Paul commanded in 1 Cor 7. 

Ever read the "Sexual Stewardship" article on themarriagebed.com?

[chosenone]

No I havent but will take a look.

[ihavehope]

i cant think of NOT having sex with my husband:)

[DaveW]

i cant think of NOT having sex with my husband:)

Kudos to you and manna for that.

Chosen, here are the links to the articles I mentioned above (in case you had not read them yet)

http://site.themarriagebed.com/sexual-stewardship
http://site.themarriagebed.com/1-cor-7-sexual-responsibility

A quote from the 2nd article exegeting phrase by phrase a verse of 1 Cor 7:

5a Do not deprive one another ...

Literally, this means "do not rob, defraud, or deprive." In the Greek, the concept is that you are stealing from someone that which belongs to them. Saying no is not a case of refusing to give something, it is taking from the spouse what God says is theirs.

5b ... except with consent ...

Another translation could be "by agreement." There can be no abstinence unless both husband and wife agree to it.

5c ... for a time ...

The Greek indicates a predefined time. No open-ended abstinence, the duration must be agreed to ahead of time.