Guardian Angels

[winsome]

 Today (2nd October) we honour the Guardian Angels.

Angels play a significant part in our salvation story. They are not just the occasional messengers from God but they appear many, many times in scripture. They have had on-going role in looking after and guiding us

Behold, I send an angel before you, to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place which I have prepared. (Ex 23:20)

Psalm 34:7 says:
The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him, and delivers them.

And Psalm 91:10-12
no evil shall befall you, no scourge come near your tent. For he will give his angels charge of you to guard you in all your ways. On their hands they will bear you up, lest you dash your foot against a stone.

Hebrews says about angels: Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to serve, for the sake of those who are to obtain salvation? (Heb 1:14)

Scripture also indicates that nations have guardian angels. Dan 12:1 says: At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people.

The belief that there are guardian angels for individuals comes from Mt 18:10, when Jesus says: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven."

"And they said unto her, Thou art mad. But she constantly affirmed that it was even so. Then said they, It is his angel."  (Acts 12:15).

We are God's children and our Father loves us and seeks to help us.  Providing us each with a powerful angel to watch over and guide us is one way he does this. We can call on their help when we need them.

[AnnaM]

When you close the doors to your dwelling and are alone you should know that there is present with you the angel whom God has appointed for each man...This angel, who is sleepless and cannot be deceived, is always present with you; he sees all things and is not hindered by darkness. You should know, too, that with him is God, who is in every place; for there is no place and nothing material in which God is not, since He is greater than all things and holds all men in His hand. (St. Antony the Great)

[chosenone]

There is a real danger of placing too much importance on angels, and some believers do that even by praying to them. We need to be careful because spiritualists also believe they have guiding angels and spirits.
We should only pray to God and ask for His help if we need it, and He will direct whatever help is needed and command His angels.

[MeMyself]

Revelation 22:89 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. But he said to me, "Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God."

[Catholica]

We believers do ask angels to help us.  We right order our beliefs, placing neither too much emphasis on them or too little, acknowledging their existence and that they have been assigned to each of us to help us, as well as their ability to offer the prayers of the faithful to God (Rev. 8:3-5).

Spiritualists have guardian angels too and if they recognize them (which I am not aware if they do) then they do so in truth.

Spiritualists err trying to receive communication from the dead and from angels.  They try to do this through natural means, such as breathing and mind altering techniques.   This desire for communication from the dead or from angels and the opening of their mind to such opens them up to the demonic.

However prayers to a guardian angel require no special techniques, request no indications or messages, and do not require opening of the mind.   This and the grace of God alive within us, with the reality of angels within the plan of God's salvation, makes addressing the angels a good and pious and beneficial thing.  We are in communion with the angels within God's family, and they are also our brothers now in the New Covenant.  God's angels are real spiritual beings with angelic natures given to them by God and take part in the affairs of the world. 

[Catholica]

Revelation 22:89 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. But he said to me, "Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God."

That is a good verse.  Notice how the angel acknowledges himself as a brethren of ours and a fellow servant of God.

The angel is right that we are not to worship angels.  We only worship God.  And that is what those Christians who happen to pray to guardian angels do: only worship God.

[MeMyself]

Revelation 22:89 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. But he said to me, "Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God."

That is a good verse.  Notice how the angel acknowledges himself as a brethren of ours and a fellow servant of God.

The angel is right that we are not to worship angels.  We only worship God.  And that is what those Christians who happen to pray to guardian angels do: only worship God.

part of worship is praying. Again, I will never never never understand praying TO anyone else when we have immediate and full access to the Father of lights, from whom every good and perfect gift comes!  Anything else is just a cheap empty imitation!

[Catholica]

Revelation 22:89 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. But he said to me, "Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God."

That is a good verse.  Notice how the angel acknowledges himself as a brethren of ours and a fellow servant of God.

The angel is right that we are not to worship angels.  We only worship God.  And that is what those Christians who happen to pray to guardian angels do: only worship God.

part of worship is praying. Again, I will never never never understand praying TO anyone else when we have immediate and full access to the Father of lights, from whom every good and perfect gift comes!  Anything else is just a cheap empty imitation!

Do you understand asking your neighbor to pray for you to God?  Do you understand asking your neighbor to lift you up spiritually?  Do you understand asking your neighbor for a cup of sugar?

[MeMyself]

Revelation 22:89 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. But he said to me, "Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God."

That is a good verse.  Notice how the angel acknowledges himself as a brethren of ours and a fellow servant of God.

The angel is right that we are not to worship angels.  We only worship God.  And that is what those Christians who happen to pray to guardian angels do: only worship God.

part of worship is praying. Again, I will never never never understand praying TO anyone else when we have immediate and full access to the Father of lights, from whom every good and perfect gift comes!  Anything else is just a cheap empty imitation!

Do you understand asking your neighbor to pray for you to God?  Do you understand asking your neighbor to lift you up spiritually?  Do you understand asking your neighbor for a cup of sugar?

Asking my neighbor to pray with/for me is no where near the same thing as praying TO my neighbor.

Them obeying God and bearing my burdens with me again..not the same as me praying TO them!

God alone is to whom we should pray.  Jesus taught us how to pray and He said "Our Father".

[chosenone]

Revelation 22:89 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. But he said to me, "Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God."

That is a good verse.  Notice how the angel acknowledges himself as a brethren of ours and a fellow servant of God.

The angel is right that we are not to worship angels.  We only worship God.  And that is what those Christians who happen to pray to guardian angels do: only worship God.

part of worship is praying. Again, I will never never never understand praying TO anyone else when we have immediate and full access to the Father of lights, from whom every good and perfect gift comes!  Anything else is just a cheap empty imitation!

Yes I so agree. Why pray to a dead person when we can pray straight to our Father? Why not take advantage of what Jesus did for us when the temple curtain was torn in two? He opened the way for us to go straight to Him, and that's why we don't need to pray to anyone or anything else.

[chosenone]

We believers do ask angels to help us.  We right order our beliefs, placing neither too much emphasis on them or too little, acknowledging their existence and that they have been assigned to each of us to help us, as well as their ability to offer the prayers of the faithful to God (Rev. 8:3-5).

Spiritualists have guardian angels too and if they recognize them (which I am not aware if they do) then they do so in truth.

Spiritualists err trying to receive communication from the dead and from angels.  They try to do this through natural means, such as breathing and mind altering techniques.   This desire for communication from the dead or from angels and the opening of their mind to such opens them up to the demonic.

However prayers to a guardian angel require no special techniques, request no indications or messages, and do not require opening of the mind.   This and the grace of God alive within us, with the reality of angels within the plan of God's salvation, makes addressing the angels a good and pious and beneficial thing.  We are in communion with the angels within God's family, and they are also our brothers now in the New Covenant.  God's angels are real spiritual beings with angelic natures given to them by God and take part in the affairs of the world. 

Where does God tell us to pray to angels?

[Catholica]

Revelation 22:89 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. But he said to me, "Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God."

That is a good verse.  Notice how the angel acknowledges himself as a brethren of ours and a fellow servant of God.

The angel is right that we are not to worship angels.  We only worship God.  And that is what those Christians who happen to pray to guardian angels do: only worship God.

part of worship is praying. Again, I will never never never understand praying TO anyone else when we have immediate and full access to the Father of lights, from whom every good and perfect gift comes!  Anything else is just a cheap empty imitation!

Do you understand asking your neighbor to pray for you to God?  Do you understand asking your neighbor to lift you up spiritually?  Do you understand asking your neighbor for a cup of sugar?

Asking my neighbor to pray with/for me is no where near the same thing as praying TO my neighbor.

Why do you ask your neighbor to pray for you to God?  Don't you "have immediate and full access to the Father of lights, from whom every good and perfect gift comes"? 

You didn't answer my other questions.

Them obeying God and bearing my burdens with me again..not the same as me praying TO them!

God alone is to whom we should pray.  Jesus taught us how to pray and He said "Our Father".

The word "pray" classically meant "to ask".  It is only in modern times that people have associated it with only speaking to a deity.  For example, in Shakespeare, from Hamlet:

"Speak the speech, I pray you, as I pronounced it to you, trippingly on the tongue. "

We retain the former meaning of the word, because we always have.    Here are the word's roots:

Middle English (in the sense 'ask earnestly'): from Old French preier , from late Latin precare , alteration of Latin precari 'entreat.'

[Catholica]

We believers do ask angels to help us.  We right order our beliefs, placing neither too much emphasis on them or too little, acknowledging their existence and that they have been assigned to each of us to help us, as well as their ability to offer the prayers of the faithful to God (Rev. 8:3-5).

Spiritualists have guardian angels too and if they recognize them (which I am not aware if they do) then they do so in truth.

Spiritualists err trying to receive communication from the dead and from angels.  They try to do this through natural means, such as breathing and mind altering techniques.   This desire for communication from the dead or from angels and the opening of their mind to such opens them up to the demonic.

However prayers to a guardian angel require no special techniques, request no indications or messages, and do not require opening of the mind.   This and the grace of God alive within us, with the reality of angels within the plan of God's salvation, makes addressing the angels a good and pious and beneficial thing.  We are in communion with the angels within God's family, and they are also our brothers now in the New Covenant.  God's angels are real spiritual beings with angelic natures given to them by God and take part in the affairs of the world. 

Where does God tell us to pray to angels?

Revelation 8:3-5 demonstrates that it is happening.  I wrote that in my reply.

Where does God tell us to pray *only* to God?

[chosenone]

Biblical teaching on angels.

Question: "Does the Bible promote or prohibit praying to angels?"

Answer:  While there is no verse which explicitly states, "You shall not pray to angels," it is abundantly clear that we are not to pray to angels. Ultimately, prayer is an act of worship. And, just as angels reject our worship (Revelation 22:8-9), so they would also reject our prayers. Offering our worship or prayer to anyone but God is idolatry.

There are also several practical and theological reasons why praying to angels is wrong. Christ Himself never prayed to anyone but the Father. When asked by His disciples to teach them to pray, He instructed them, "This, then, is how you should pray: 'Our Father in heaven...'" (Matthew 6:9; Luke 11:2). If praying to angels were something we, as His disciples, are to do, this would have been the place for Him to tell us. Clearly, we are to pray only to God. This is also evident in passages such as Matthew 11:25-26, where Christ's prayer introduction begins with "I praise thee, Father, Lord of heaven and earth...." Jesus not only begins His prayers by addressing the Father, but the content of His prayers usually requests assistance that could only be granted by someone with omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent powers. Praying to angels would be ineffective because they are created beings and do not possess these powers.

The case against praying to angels can also be made by reviewing John 17:1-26 where Jesus prays on behalf of His followers, requesting multiple blessings on them from God the Father, including sanctification, glorification, and preservation of the saints. These three blessings can only come from the source that presently holds them, and again, angels simply do not have this power. Angels cannot sanctify us, they cannot glorify us, and they cannot guarantee our inheritance in Christ (Ephesians 1:13-14).

Second, there is an occasion in John 14:13 when Christ Himself tells believers that whatever we ask in His name, He will accomplish because He pleads directly with the Father. Offering a prayer up to angels would fall short of an effective and biblically guided prayer. A second occasion in which Christ mentions that prayers must be offered up in His name alone occurs in John 16:26. This verse conveys the message that, after Christ's ascension to heaven, He acts as an intercessor to the Father for all believers. Neither angels nor any other created being is ever depicted as an intercessor with the Father. Only the Son and the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:26) can intercede before the Father's throne.

Last, 1 Thessalonians 5:17 tells the believer to pray without ceasing. This would only be possible if a believer has access to a God who is always present and available to listen to the pleas of every person at one time. Angels do not have this ability—they are not omnipresent or omnipotent—and as such are not qualified to receive our prayers. Prayer to the Father through Christ is the only necessary and effective means by which we can communicate with the Father. No, praying to angels is absolutely not a biblical concept.



Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/praying-to-angels.html#ixzz2gb6rW7tq

[Catholica]

Biblical teaching on angels.

Question: "Does the Bible promote or prohibit praying to angels?"

Answer:  While there is no verse which explicitly states, "You shall not pray to angels," it is abundantly clear that we are not to pray to angels. Ultimately, prayer is an act of worship. And, just as angels reject our worship (Revelation 22:8-9), so they would also reject our prayers. Offering our worship or prayer to anyone but God is idolatry.

There are also several practical and theological reasons why praying to angels is wrong. Christ Himself never prayed to anyone but the Father. When asked by His disciples to teach them to pray, He instructed them, "This, then, is how you should pray: 'Our Father in heaven...'" (Matthew 6:9; Luke 11:2). If praying to angels were something we, as His disciples, are to do, this would have been the place for Him to tell us. Clearly, we are to pray only to God. This is also evident in passages such as Matthew 11:25-26, where Christ's prayer introduction begins with "I praise thee, Father, Lord of heaven and earth...." Jesus not only begins His prayers by addressing the Father, but the content of His prayers usually requests assistance that could only be granted by someone with omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent powers. Praying to angels would be ineffective because they are created beings and do not possess these powers.

The case against praying to angels can also be made by reviewing John 17:1-26 where Jesus prays on behalf of His followers, requesting multiple blessings on them from God the Father, including sanctification, glorification, and preservation of the saints. These three blessings can only come from the source that presently holds them, and again, angels simply do not have this power. Angels cannot sanctify us, they cannot glorify us, and they cannot guarantee our inheritance in Christ (Ephesians 1:13-14).

Second, there is an occasion in John 14:13 when Christ Himself tells believers that whatever we ask in His name, He will accomplish because He pleads directly with the Father. Offering a prayer up to angels would fall short of an effective and biblically guided prayer. A second occasion in which Christ mentions that prayers must be offered up in His name alone occurs in John 16:26. This verse conveys the message that, after Christ's ascension to heaven, He acts as an intercessor to the Father for all believers. Neither angels nor any other created being is ever depicted as an intercessor with the Father. Only the Son and the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:26) can intercede before the Father's throne.

Last, 1 Thessalonians 5:17 tells the believer to pray without ceasing. This would only be possible if a believer has access to a God who is always present and available to listen to the pleas of every person at one time. Angels do not have this ability—they are not omnipresent or omnipotent—and as such are not qualified to receive our prayers. Prayer to the Father through Christ is the only necessary and effective means by which we can communicate with the Father. No, praying to angels is absolutely not a biblical concept.



Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/praying-to-angels.html#ixzz2gb6rW7tq

All that says is that since (in your view) you equate prayer with worship, then you shouldn't pray to anything but God, because that is worshiping something other than God.

However while worship may contain prayer to God, and prayer to God can be worshipful, it doesn't mean that all prayer is worship.  So I ask you again, where does the Bible say that we are to pray only to God?

And (ad nauseum), why ask your neighbor to pray to God for you if you can pray directly to God?  You do it but you don't see that it is the same reason as why we can ask the saints and angels to pray for us.

[AnnaM]

We should only pray to God...

The mediation of Jesus Christ doesn't exclude praying to angels and saints. If you can't pray to angels and saints then you can't ask others to pray for you. Don't you see when you ask others to pray for you, instead of going directly to God, you're asking them to act as mediators with Jesus for you?

[Catholica]

And in fact angels are depicted as intercessors before the throne of God.  Revelation 8:3-5.

[MeMyself]

We believers do ask angels to help us.  We right order our beliefs, placing neither too much emphasis on them or too little, acknowledging their existence and that they have been assigned to each of us to help us, as well as their ability to offer the prayers of the faithful to God (Rev. 8:3-5).

Spiritualists have guardian angels too and if they recognize them (which I am not aware if they do) then they do so in truth.

Spiritualists err trying to receive communication from the dead and from angels.  They try to do this through natural means, such as breathing and mind altering techniques.   This desire for communication from the dead or from angels and the opening of their mind to such opens them up to the demonic.

However prayers to a guardian angel require no special techniques, request no indications or messages, and do not require opening of the mind.   This and the grace of God alive within us, with the reality of angels within the plan of God's salvation, makes addressing the angels a good and pious and beneficial thing.  We are in communion with the angels within God's family, and they are also our brothers now in the New Covenant.  God's angels are real spiritual beings with angelic natures given to them by God and take part in the affairs of the world. 

Where does God tell us to pray to angels?

Revelation 8:3-5 demonstrates that it is happening.  I wrote that in my reply.

Where does God tell us to pray *only* to God?

Luke 11:1-4 Now Jesus was praying in a certain place, and when he finished, one of his disciples said to him, "Lord, teach us to pray, as John taught his disciples." 2 And he said to them, "When you pray, say:

"Father, hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come.
3 Give us each day our daily bread,
4 and forgive us our sins,
    for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And lead us not into temptation."

Jesus instructs us to pray to the Father.

Deuteronomy18:10-11 is pretty clear that God does not want us "consulting" the dead.
10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.

[MeMyself]

We should only pray to God...

The mediation of Jesus Christ doesn't exclude praying to angels and saints. If you can't pray to angels and saints then you can't ask others to pray for you. Don't you see when you ask others to pray for you, instead of going directly to God, you're asking them to act as mediators with Jesus for you?

Nope.  Asking someone to bear your burden with you in prayer, praying along side you is NOT the same as asking them to be a mediator.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,


When we ask for prayer from our neighbor we are simply obeying the call of James 5:16
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

[AnnaM]

And in fact angels are depicted as intercessors before the throne of God.  Revelation 8:3-5.

It's true. We read about the angel offering to God the prayers of the saints.

"And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.  And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand." (Apocalypse 8:3-4)

[Catholica]

We believers do ask angels to help us.  We right order our beliefs, placing neither too much emphasis on them or too little, acknowledging their existence and that they have been assigned to each of us to help us, as well as their ability to offer the prayers of the faithful to God (Rev. 8:3-5).

Spiritualists have guardian angels too and if they recognize them (which I am not aware if they do) then they do so in truth.

Spiritualists err trying to receive communication from the dead and from angels.  They try to do this through natural means, such as breathing and mind altering techniques.   This desire for communication from the dead or from angels and the opening of their mind to such opens them up to the demonic.

However prayers to a guardian angel require no special techniques, request no indications or messages, and do not require opening of the mind.   This and the grace of God alive within us, with the reality of angels within the plan of God's salvation, makes addressing the angels a good and pious and beneficial thing.  We are in communion with the angels within God's family, and they are also our brothers now in the New Covenant.  God's angels are real spiritual beings with angelic natures given to them by God and take part in the affairs of the world. 

Where does God tell us to pray to angels?

Revelation 8:3-5 demonstrates that it is happening.  I wrote that in my reply.

Where does God tell us to pray *only* to God?

Luke 11:1-4 Now Jesus was praying in a certain place, and when he finished, one of his disciples said to him, "Lord, teach us to pray, as John taught his disciples." 2 And he said to them, "When you pray, say:

"Father, hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come.
3 Give us each day our daily bread,
4 and forgive us our sins,
    for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And lead us not into temptation."

Jesus instructs us to pray to the Father.

Yes, but he doesn't say to ONLY pray to the Father.  If you want to take that part of the verse literally, then that is the only prayer you should be praying.

Is that the only prayer you say?

Deuteronomy18:10-11 is pretty clear that God does not want us "consulting" the dead.
10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.

Deuteronomy 18:10-11 refers to trying to gain information from the dead, or from spirits, or to try to read the future, or to try to manipulate the world through magic.  Angels aren't dead, and neither are the souls in heaven, nor do we attempt to discern the future or gain information from them.

Search Results

    con·sult
    kənˈsəlt/
    verb
    verb: consult; 3rd person present: consults; past tense: consulted; past participle: consulted; gerund or present participle: consulting
        1.
       seek information or advice from (someone with expertise in a particular area).
        "you should consult a financial advisor"

[Catholica]

We should only pray to God...

The mediation of Jesus Christ doesn't exclude praying to angels and saints. If you can't pray to angels and saints then you can't ask others to pray for you. Don't you see when you ask others to pray for you, instead of going directly to God, you're asking them to act as mediators with Jesus for you?

Nope.  Asking someone to bear your burden with you in prayer, praying along side you is NOT the same as asking them to be a mediator.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,


When we ask for prayer from our neighbor we are simply obeying the call of James 5:16
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

We know that, but that is no different from praying to the Saints and to the angels, who are fellow servants with us for God.  They can bear burdens through prayer too.  We see the Saints doing so in Revelation 5:8.

Again I ask, why do you ask your neighbor to pray for you when you have direct access to God.  WHY?  And if the reason is that the Holy are powerful in prayer, how much less powerful then is your neighbor than the Saints who have already been given their crowns of glory in heaven, and the angels who constantly behold the face of the Father?

[Helen]

When God Himself has supplied Himself as the Mediator (Jesus Christ) how silly is it to try to pray to a mediator to the Mediator?

1 Timothy 2:5 -- "there is ONE mediator between God and men...Christ Jesus."

In the meantime, guardian angels are exactly that: guardians.  They are not intercessors or mediators.  They are guardians (and I hope mine isn't/aren't too bruised!).

[Catholica]

When God Himself has supplied Himself as the Mediator (Jesus Christ) how silly is it to try to pray to a mediator to the Mediator?

1 Timothy 2:5 -- "there is ONE mediator between God and men...Christ Jesus."

In the meantime, guardian angels are exactly that: guardians.  They are not intercessors or mediators.  They are guardians (and I hope mine isn't/aren't too bruised!).

Jesus is the mediator of the covenant.  Not the mediator of all prayers to God.  There are different kinds of mediators.

Hebrews 9
13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the sprinkling of a heifer's ashes can sanctify those who are defiled so that their flesh is cleansed,
14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works to worship the living God.
15 For this reason he is mediator of a new covenant: since a death has taken place for deliverance from transgressions under the first covenant, those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance.

And in fact Jesus says that interceding for everyone is a good thing, right in the same context of 1 Tim 2:5:

1 Tim 2:1-4
1 First of all, then, I ask that supplications, prayers, petitions, and thanksgivings be offered for everyone, 2for kings and for all in authority, that we may lead a quiet and tranquil life in all devotion and dignity. 3This is good and pleasing to God our savior, 4who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.

And, as before, Revelation 8:3-4 shows that angels are intercessors:

Rev 8
3Another angel came and stood at the altar,* holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne.c 4The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel.

[AnnaM]

We should only pray to God...

The mediation of Jesus Christ doesn't exclude praying to angels and saints. If you can't pray to angels and saints then you can't ask others to pray for you. Don't you see when you ask others to pray for you, instead of going directly to God, you're asking them to act as mediators with Jesus for you?

Nope.  Asking someone to bear your burden with you in prayer, praying along side you is NOT the same as asking them to be a mediator.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,


When we ask for prayer from our neighbor we are simply obeying the call of James 5:16
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

We're not talking about praying "along side" others. I said when you ask others to pray FOR you, instead of going directly to Jesus, you're asking them to act as mediators with Jesus for you. And that's exactly what you're doing. There's no way around it.

Helen, MeMyself,

You can't sit there and honestly tell me that a person who prays for you is not acting as a mediator with Jesus for you. I'm showing you how illogical you are by accepting the idea that others can pray to Jesus for you - and by that very fact act as mediators with Jesus for you - but rejecting praying to saints and angels.

[Helen]

When we pray together, or someone prays for me, they are not mediating.  I have direct access to the Throne of the Father through Jesus Christ.  I have need of no other. 

Of COURSE I will go directly to God.  I have been given that divine right by Jesus Himself, my Lord and my God. 

[AnnaM]

When...someone prays for me, they are not mediating.

Either you're totally ignorant of the definition of mediating or you're in denial.

[Helen]

All I know, Anna, is that I have direct access to God through Christ Jesus.  I neither need nor desire another.  Jesus Christ, and He alone, in my mediator.  Why should I ever need or want another?

...your insults aside....

[AnnaM]

Helen,

I'm not insulting you. I've simply reached a conclusion (based on your posts) involving two possibilities. Don't you see it's not about whether a person has direct access to God or not? Don't you understand that the mediation of Jesus Christ does not exclude praying to saints and angels? Do you know the definition of mediating? I'm asking you this sincerely.

[chosenone]

Helen,

I'm not insulting you. I've simply reached a conclusion (based on your posts) involving two possibilities. Don't you see it's not about whether a person has direct access to God or not? Don't you understand that the mediation of Jesus Christ does not exclude praying to saints and angels? Do you know the definition of mediating? I'm asking you this sincerely.

Praying to those who have died is forbidden, and praying to angels isn't something that God ever says we should do. Its yet another man made belief that attempts to take away from Jesus, what should be HIS and HIS alone.
Both praying to those who have died, and attempting to contact your 'guardian angel', opens the door to demonic activity. Its really your choice, but personally I would never want that for myself.

Jesus is my Lord, my Savour, my Mediator and my strength. I have no need to ever talk to these dead human 'saints' or angels who God Himself sends to help us.

[MeMyself]

We believers do ask angels to help us.  We right order our beliefs, placing neither too much emphasis on them or too little, acknowledging their existence and that they have been assigned to each of us to help us, as well as their ability to offer the prayers of the faithful to God (Rev. 8:3-5).

Spiritualists have guardian angels too and if they recognize them (which I am not aware if they do) then they do so in truth.

Spiritualists err trying to receive communication from the dead and from angels.  They try to do this through natural means, such as breathing and mind altering techniques.   This desire for communication from the dead or from angels and the opening of their mind to such opens them up to the demonic.

However prayers to a guardian angel require no special techniques, request no indications or messages, and do not require opening of the mind.   This and the grace of God alive within us, with the reality of angels within the plan of God's salvation, makes addressing the angels a good and pious and beneficial thing.  We are in communion with the angels within God's family, and they are also our brothers now in the New Covenant.  God's angels are real spiritual beings with angelic natures given to them by God and take part in the affairs of the world. 

Where does God tell us to pray to angels?

Revelation 8:3-5 demonstrates that it is happening.  I wrote that in my reply.

Where does God tell us to pray *only* to God?

Luke 11:1-4 Now Jesus was praying in a certain place, and when he finished, one of his disciples said to him, "Lord, teach us to pray, as John taught his disciples." 2 And he said to them, "When you pray, say:

"Father, hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come.
3 Give us each day our daily bread,
4 and forgive us our sins,
    for we ourselves forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And lead us not into temptation."

Jesus instructs us to pray to the Father.

Yes, but he doesn't say to ONLY pray to the Father.  If you want to take that part of the verse literally, then that is the only prayer you should be praying.

Is that the only prayer you say?

Not the only prayer, but  I DO follow the pattern!  If He was hunky dory that we pray to any and everyone, WHY when He was asked to teach us to pray did He not include that?  The OT already addresses consulting the dead and tells us it is wrong.

Deuteronomy18:10-11 is pretty clear that God does not want us "consulting" the dead.
10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.

Deuteronomy 18:10-11 refers to trying to gain information from the dead, or from spirits, or to try to read the future, or to try to manipulate the world through magic.  Angels aren't dead, and neither are the souls in heaven, nor do we attempt to discern the future or gain information from them.

Search Results

    con·sult
    kənˈsəlt/
    verb
    verb: consult; 3rd person present: consults; past tense: consulted; past participle: consulted; gerund or present participle: consulting
        1.
       seek information or advice from (someone with expertise in a particular area).
        "you should consult a financial advisor"

Honestly, when we pray, we ARE consulting God!  We are asking for advice, for wisdom, for His guidance and expertise.

But, we will have to agree to disagree, I guess.  I will keep going straight to the Father and I will never understand WHY anyone would want to settle for less than that.  Blessings!

[Helen]

Helen,

I'm not insulting you. I've simply reached a conclusion (based on your posts) involving two possibilities. Don't you see it's not about whether a person has direct access to God or not? Don't you understand that the mediation of Jesus Christ does not exclude praying to saints and angels? Do you know the definition of mediating? I'm asking you this sincerely.

Praying to those who have died is forbidden, and praying to angels isn't something that God ever says we should do. Its yet another man made belief that attempts to take away from Jesus, what should be HIS and HIS alone.
Both praying to those who have died, and attempting to contact your 'guardian angel', opens the door to demonic activity. Its really your choice, but personally I would never want that for myself.

Jesus is my Lord, my Savour, my Mediator and my strength. I have no need to ever talk to these dead human 'saints' or angels who God Himself sends to help us.

Amen to that.  Absolutely AMEN!

[Helen]

Mentioned this thread to my husband and he reminded me of the time in Revelation where John bows down to the angel (Revelation 19) and the angel tells him not to do that, "I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus."

[Catholica]

Mentioned this thread to my husband and he reminded me of the time in Revelation where John bows down to the angel (Revelation 19) and the angel tells him not to do that, "I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus."

Already covered that one, Helen.

[AVZ]

part of worship is praying. Again, I will never never never understand praying TO anyone else when we have immediate and full access to the Father of lights, from whom every good and perfect gift comes!  Anything else is just a cheap empty imitation!

Do you understand asking your neighbor to pray for you to God?  Do you understand asking your neighbor to lift you up spiritually?  Do you understand asking your neighbor for a cup of sugar?

This is so wrong and gives an accurate view of how the Catholic Church perceives prayer.

Prayer (as it is meant in the Bible) is not simply asking for things.
Prayer to God and praying (begging) your neighbor are intrinsically different.

A prayer to God contains the following:
- Acknowledgement of divinity
- Glorification
- Admittance of dependency
- Request

All these elements can be found in the "Our Father".
Aside from the request, no such elements can be found in asking your neighbor for a cup of sugar, or asking him to pray for you.

Neither is praying to angels and Mary the same as asking your neighbor for a cup of sugar.
It is yet another distorted view by the Catholic Church to place other entities in between believers and God.