Christian Forums

Quote from: gospel on Sun Sep 04, 2011 - 20:53:36
It is human to sometimes say or do anything for the sake of an "X" in the win column

Sometimes we need to ask ourselves what it is we're winning   

This is not a win or lose issue.  It is a right or wrong issue.  It is a truth vs lies issue.

Quote from: garyarnold on Sun Sep 04, 2011 - 20:12:52

Abraham was not under law, so why did Abraham give a tenth part of all to the type of Christ in Hebrews 7:2, and is not Christ's priesthood forever after the order of Melchisedec according to Psalms 110:4 ?

Biblical historians say that during the days of Abraham, it was CUSTOM to give a tenth of the war spoils to the king.  But the Word doesn't tell us WHY Abram gave the tenth, and we shouldn't just make up a reason.

Christ's priesthood is after the ORDER OF Melchizedec - order; i.e. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.  In Hebrews 7:18, we see that the Levitical priesthood was disannulled.  That means it is treated as though it was never there.  It is taken out of the picture.  Therefore, we go from Melchizedec's priesthood to that of Christ with no priesthood in the middle.

Numbers 18 established the Levitical priesthood along with tithing to support the priesthood.  Once annulled, it is treated as though there never was a Levitical priesthood, and never was a tithing law to support the priesthood.

I did not bring the Levitical priesthood into the equation. What I was attempting to bring out was that if Abraham believed God and gave a tenth before the law was given, what was he believing that was annulled? I personally do not care what anyone believes or practices with their giving. As for me as in Matthew 6:3,  "But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth." Given directly to meet my brother's need or through my pastor, I do what I do by the grace of God and am supported with peace of a good conscience.

Do I expect earthly reward for doing so? If I went by the prosperity message preached today I might, but Paul gave all, suffered beatings and imprisonment, and was finally beheaded for his efforts, but you ought to see him now. Behold, Jesus comes quickly; and his reward for me is with Him. I personally think all this attitude of how or what we do to follow certain traditions are superfluous as to how we actually love our neighbor as ourselves. I am judged as to my walk with Christ in me; not what you or anyone else does. Just like many things practiced, and of those given us by tradition also, we may be able to apply 1 Corinthians 11:16 to the mix: "But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God."

God bless you all in Jesus' name.
   
 

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sun Sep 04, 2011 - 15:14:26
I know very well what Malachi 3:7-12 teaches that according to the Law if a believer falls short then they have robbed God and fall under a curse.

Brother Keith

Lots of things wrong, but this one sticks out to me.  Brother Keith has apparently misunderstood Malachi.

The book of Malachi was written specifically to the Levitical priests.  These were the people who COLLECTED the tithes, not the people who tithed.  The portion of Malachi 3 Keith refers to admonishes these priests to "bring the tithe to the storehouse." The storehouse is the temple at Jerusalem.  Essentially, these Levites were to collect the tithes from their area and travel with them to Jerusalem to bring them into the national storehouse at the temple.  This was mostly grain, and the nation kept it as a store against famine, following the example of Joseph in Egypt.

It then goes on to tell them that if they do not do this, they are cursed.  These Levites are not allowed to misappropriate the tithe to keep it for themselves.  The text says they have robbed God, and means it literally.  They have taken up the collection, and failed to turn it in, keeping it for themselves.

So, if you COLLECT A TITHE FROM SOMEONE ELSE, and then keep part or all of it for yourself, then this book and chapter apply to you.  If you are the one giving a tithe, this has little/nothing to do with you.

Jarrod

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Sun Sep 04, 2011 - 22:29:34

Quote from: Lively Stone on Sun Sep 04, 2011 - 15:14:26
I know very well what Malachi 3:7-12 teaches that according to the Law if a believer falls short then they have robbed God and fall under a curse.

Brother Keith

Lots of things wrong, but this one sticks out to me.  Brother Keith has apparently misunderstood Malachi.

Oh well, brother Keith was the one asking the question of the pastor in his article.

Something I suppose bears saying.

There is nothing wrong with setting aside 10% of one's income to give to a church (or anyone needy, for that matter).

The problem many here have with tithing is ministers telling people that it is commanded (it isn't), or that they are cursed if they don't do it (no more under the law type of curses exist).

Jarrod

It was a curse for us to be in the financial bondage we were in before we started tithing. Tithing freed us, and we give all the glory to God. He makes a way where there seems to be no way.

Quote from: Lively Stone on Mon Sep 05, 2011 - 00:11:08
It was a curse for us to be in the financial bondage we were in before we started tithing. Tithing freed us, and we give all the glory to God. He makes a way where there seems to be no way.

Who cursed you, then?  I don't think you can blame that one on God.

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Mon Sep 05, 2011 - 00:57:31

Quote from: Lively Stone on Mon Sep 05, 2011 - 00:11:08
It was a curse for us to be in the financial bondage we were in before we started tithing. Tithing freed us, and we give all the glory to God. He makes a way where there seems to be no way.

Who cursed you, then?  I don't think you can blame that one on God.

When we live outside of the way God desires us to live, not placing Him first, and doing it our own way---as many Christians do with parts of their lives, there is a curse in that...it is called 'trouble'. It sure felt like a curse, but after we took the step of faith and put our full trust in God for everything as our Jehovah Jireh, it took very little time for God to turn it all around and make us debt free.

God gets all the glory for that! He asks us to test Him and we sure did! His guarantees are solid!

I repeat....the lump leavens the whole

Holy means belonging to God, what ever is sanctified is set apart as belonging to God

Mammon is the means of exchange of the world system


It Belongs to the world system therefore mammon is unrighteous


For no other reason but that it belongs to the world

The same way we belonged to the world before being Born Again

The tenth, the 1st part of anything is representative of the whole and that which remains

Giving the 1st part as unto God sanctifies the rest, makes the unrighteous mammon sanctified because through your act of giving the 1st part ....you are saying what remains belongs to God as well even though it is under your stewardship

The curse is not on person but on that which remains in the world 

Tithing causes your finances to be blessed, it simply becomes more able to accomplish more with less, lasts longer and no subject to the curse in the world

Jesus called money unrighteous mammon

One must take note that although He spoke of it often... Jesus never handled money...everything He did was by the means of exchange of the Kingdom of Heaven...Faith!



Tithing is a statement saying I belong to the kingdom and my first and foremost means of exchange is faith and money is secondary

Quote from: gospel on Mon Sep 05, 2011 - 02:38:54
I repeat....the lump leavens the whole

Holy means belonging to God, what ever is sanctified is set apart as belonging to God

Mammon is the means of exchange of the world system


It Belongs to the world system therefore mammon is unrighteous


For no other reason but that it belongs to the world

The same way we belonged to the world before being Born Again

The tenth, the 1st part of anything is representative of the whole and that which remains

Giving the 1st part as unto God sanctifies the rest, makes the unrighteous mammon sanctified because through your act of giving the 1st part ....you are saying what remains belongs to God as well even though it is under your stewardship

The curse is not on person but on that which remains in the world  

Tithing causes your finances to be blessed, it simply becomes more able to accomplish more with less, lasts longer and no subject to the curse in the world

Jesus called money unrighteous mammon

One must take note that although He spoke of it often... Jesus never handled money...everything He did was by the means of exchange of the Kingdom of Heaven...Faith!



Tithing is a statement saying I belong to the kingdom and my first and foremost means of exchange is faith and money is secondary

Well said, gospel....manna!

I haven't read any of this yet so forgive my ignorance.   It would seem the greatest example of giving in the New Testament was to sell everything and pool the resources.   The only mention of "first day of week" giving was for the poor in Jerusalem.  Nothing new there.  What does bother me currently about my level of giving to the local congregation is that I am a recipient of her blessings (which are plentiful) without providing a proportional level of support.  (I use the excuse that it is for a season as we deal with debt..  God knows my heart and He is big enough to show me if I am being a good steward of His blessings or not)

Quote from: gospel on Mon Sep 05, 2011 - 02:38:54
I repeat....the lump leavens the whole

Holy means belonging to God, what ever is sanctified is set apart as belonging to God

Mammon is the means of exchange of the world system


It Belongs to the world system therefore mammon is unrighteous


For no other reason but that it belongs to the world

The same way we belonged to the world before being Born Again

The tenth, the 1st part of anything is representative of the whole and that which remains

Giving the 1st part as unto God sanctifies the rest, makes the unrighteous mammon sanctified because through your act of giving the 1st part ....you are saying what remains belongs to God as well even though it is under your stewardship

The curse is not on person but on that which remains in the world 

Tithing causes your finances to be blessed, it simply becomes more able to accomplish more with less, lasts longer and no subject to the curse in the world

Jesus called money unrighteous mammon

One must take note that although He spoke of it often... Jesus never handled money...everything He did was by the means of exchange of the Kingdom of Heaven...Faith!



Tithing is a statement saying I belong to the kingdom and my first and foremost means of exchange is faith and money is secondary

Gospel, that is really beautiful for those that believe that tithing is a law that remains in effect today.  But where is the command again that says the Christian Church is now under that law, the law to tithe 10% of our salary?  That is the issue here.  Is it a real Christian law or not?  If it is a law, show us the verse that says it is a law.  Where is it?

Peace and donkey hugs to you.

Quote from: Talking Donkey on Mon Sep 05, 2011 - 09:24:56

Peace and donkey hugs to you.

Looks like some favouritism going on!  

Malachi 3:9
9Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

The curse would be on the NATION, not the individual.

Galatians 3:13 "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us...

Quote from: Lively Stone on Mon Sep 05, 2011 - 09:34:37

Quote from: Talking Donkey on Mon Sep 05, 2011 - 09:24:56

Peace and donkey hugs to you.

Looks like some favouritism going on!  

I am so sorry ! Donkey hugs to you too.  And a donkey kiss too.

Quote from: Talking Donkey on Mon Sep 05, 2011 - 09:24:56

Quote from: gospel on Mon Sep 05, 2011 - 02:38:54
I repeat....the lump leavens the whole

Holy means belonging to God, what ever is sanctified is set apart as belonging to God

Mammon is the means of exchange of the world system


It Belongs to the world system therefore mammon is unrighteous


For no other reason but that it belongs to the world

The same way we belonged to the world before being Born Again

The tenth, the 1st part of anything is representative of the whole and that which remains

Giving the 1st part as unto God sanctifies the rest, makes the unrighteous mammon sanctified because through your act of giving the 1st part ....you are saying what remains belongs to God as well even though it is under your stewardship

The curse is not on person but on that which remains in the world 

Tithing causes your finances to be blessed, it simply becomes more able to accomplish more with less, lasts longer and no subject to the curse in the world

Jesus called money unrighteous mammon

One must take note that although He spoke of it often... Jesus never handled money...everything He did was by the means of exchange of the Kingdom of Heaven...Faith!



Tithing is a statement saying I belong to the kingdom and my first and foremost means of exchange is faith and money is secondary

Gospel, that is really beautiful for those that believe that tithing is a law that remains in effect today.  But where is the command again that says the Christian Church is now under that law, the law to tithe 10% of our salary?  That is the issue here.  Is it a real Christian law or not?  If it is a law, show us the verse that says it is a law.  Where is it?

Peace and donkey hugs to you.

Its not a law

I guess it just depends how much law you want.

Is tithing the only OT law we need to keep?

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Mon Sep 05, 2011 - 20:37:03
I guess it just depends how much law you want.

Is tithing the only OT law we need to keep?

Its no longer a law, but is still a working principle

Certain things Gods designed just happen to work no matter what system or name you want to apply to it

Tithing works if you work it

Too many people swear by it, too many prosperous and successful people will tell you their prosperity and success came about through tithing

It's a faith thing!

A person putting their belief into action in regards to their finances.

A person saying I may need this money for something else but I trust God's ability to meet my need more than I trust this money to meet my needs

...That's Faith!

and because it is... God will honor it

However you slice it, it's honorable!

At this point I have to say I have not always been a faithful tither

But when I have God has proven himself mightily

The year we were buying a home, we needed the money we were tithing toward the purchase but we tithed it anyway....

In the end no amount of money could buy the miracle that occurred for us in the transaction

Basically I am certain we got our home because we tithed.

Other times when we were not quite as faithful and used the tithe to make ends meet... we were not cursed but things we were trying to accomplish required more effort on our part and did not go quite as smoothly

We can debate details facts and figures all day but when one talks to some tithers, even if you do not agree with tithing, one still has to be impressed with their level of faith  

And I believe God honors faith according to Hebrews 11:6 and Romans 1:17

Quote from: gospel on Tue Sep 06, 2011 - 11:29:46

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Mon Sep 05, 2011 - 20:37:03
I guess it just depends how much law you want.

Is tithing the only OT law we need to keep?

Its no longer a law, but is still a working principle

Certain things Gods designed just happen to work no matter what system or name you want to apply to it

Tithing works if you work it

Too many people swear by it, too prosperous and successful people will tell you their prosperity and success came about through tithing

It's a faith thing,

a person putting their belief into action in regards to their finances.

A person saying I may need this money for something else but I trust God's ability to meet my need more than I trust this money to meet my needs

...That's Faith!

and because it is God will honor it

However you slice it, it's honorable

At this point I have to say I have not always been a faithful tither

But when I have God has proven himself mightily

The year we were buying a home, we needed the money we were tithing toward the purchase but we tithed it anyway....

In the end no amount of money could buy the miracle that occurred for us in the transaction

Basically I am certain we got our home because we tithed.

Other times when we were not quite as faithful and used the tithe to make ends meet... we were not cursed but things we were trying to accomplish required more effort on our part and did not go quite as smoothly

We can debate details facts and figures all day but when one talks to some tithers, even if you do not agree with tithing, one still has to be impressed with their level of faith 

And I believe God honors faith according to Hebrews 11:6 and Romans 1:17

That is outrageously good !!!  That's the way to preach it.

Peace

Quote from: gospel on Tue Sep 06, 2011 - 11:29:46

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Mon Sep 05, 2011 - 20:37:03
I guess it just depends how much law you want.

Is tithing the only OT law we need to keep?

Its no longer a law, but is still a working principle

Certain things Gods designed just happen to work no matter what system or name you want to apply to it

Tithing works if you work it

I totally and completely agree with your statement, gospel. 

Tithing is no longer a law, but it is still a working principle.

As I said earlier in the thread, nobody objects to people setting a standard for themselves of 10%, and giving is both honorable and beneficial in a 'reaping and sowing' sort of way.

The only thing that has been objected to, is some insisting that tithing IS a law, and attempting to FORCE people to tithe, or putting a CURSE on those who are not tithing to their satisfaction.

Jarrod

Tithing is not a principle to begin with.  But there are GIVING principles in the word.

Tithing today is nothing but a scam.  It 100% man made.

The Biblical tithe was ALWAYS on God's miraculous increase of FOOD from crops and animals and NEVER on man's income.  To tithe on your income today has NOTHING to do with the Biblical tithe.

But I guess there are those that like to say they tithe today.  I guess it makes them feel good.  It's an ego booster for them.  But at the same time, it is wrong to associate tithing on income with the scriptures.

It is great to GIVE a tenth of your income.  It is wrong to call that tithing IF you are inferring the Biblical tithe.

Quote from: Talking Donkey on Tue Sep 06, 2011 - 20:21:52

Quote from: gospel on Tue Sep 06, 2011 - 11:29:46

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Mon Sep 05, 2011 - 20:37:03
I guess it just depends how much law you want.

Is tithing the only OT law we need to keep?

Its no longer a law, but is still a working principle

Certain things Gods designed just happen to work no matter what system or name you want to apply to it

Tithing works if you work it

Too many people swear by it, too prosperous and successful people will tell you their prosperity and success came about through tithing

It's a faith thing,

a person putting their belief into action in regards to their finances.

A person saying I may need this money for something else but I trust God's ability to meet my need more than I trust this money to meet my needs

...That's Faith!

and because it is God will honor it

However you slice it, it's honorable

At this point I have to say I have not always been a faithful tither

But when I have God has proven himself mightily

The year we were buying a home, we needed the money we were tithing toward the purchase but we tithed it anyway....

In the end no amount of money could buy the miracle that occurred for us in the transaction

Basically I am certain we got our home because we tithed.

Other times when we were not quite as faithful and used the tithe to make ends meet... we were not cursed but things we were trying to accomplish required more effort on our part and did not go quite as smoothly

We can debate details facts and figures all day but when one talks to some tithers, even if you do not agree with tithing, one still has to be impressed with their level of faith 

And I believe God honors faith according to Hebrews 11:6 and Romans 1:17

That is outrageously good !!!  That's the way to preach it.

Peace

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Tue Sep 06, 2011 - 21:38:35

Quote from: gospel on Tue Sep 06, 2011 - 11:29:46

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Mon Sep 05, 2011 - 20:37:03
I guess it just depends how much law you want.

Is tithing the only OT law we need to keep?

Its no longer a law, but is still a working principle

Certain things Gods designed just happen to work no matter what system or name you want to apply to it

Tithing works if you work it

I totally and completely agree with your statement, gospel. 

Tithing is no longer a law, but it is still a working principle.

As I said earlier in the thread, nobody objects to people setting a standard for themselves of 10%, and giving is both honorable and beneficial in a 'reaping and sowing' sort of way.

The only thing that has been objected to, is some insisting that tithing IS a law, and attempting to FORCE people to tithe, or putting a CURSE on those who are not tithing to their satisfaction.

Jarrod

I do believe we have consensus at least among us and in the process maybe helped someone who might be looking for a balanced answer.

If a person teaches curses they are incorrect, for in Christ we have been delivered from the curse of the Law and every other curse as well.

But does tithing work for those who have the faith to honor it?

I must say I know far too many people with far too many extraordinary  testimonies of breakthroughs of every conceivable type, from healing to financial where tithing is what they credit through which God honored their faith in His ability to meet their needs.

One simply cannot discount the accounts of countless people who have trusted God through tithing and received breakthrough after breakthrough, year after year, after year

Manna to all for a great thread

One simply cannot discount the accounts of countless people who have trusted God through tithing and received breakthrough after breakthrough, year after year, after year

Can one discount the accounts of countless people who have trusted God but do NOT tithe and received breakthrough after breakthrough, year after year?

Can one discount the accounts of countless people who are atheists but have received breakthrough after breakthrough year after year?

Can one discount the accounts of countless people who have trusted God through tithing but never seem to get any breakthrough, struggling year after year after year?

It is the trick of a pastor to parade those who tithe and have a testimony they attribute to tithing.  The pastor never parades all the other tithers who don't have a good story to tell.  Is that not dishonest?

Quote from: garyarnold on Wed Sep 07, 2011 - 01:07:05
Tithing is not a principle to begin with.  But there are GIVING principles in the word.

Tithing today is nothing but a scam.  It 100% man made.

The Biblical tithe was ALWAYS on God's miraculous increase of FOOD from crops and animals and NEVER on man's income.  To tithe on your income today has NOTHING to do with the Biblical tithe.

But I guess there are those that like to say they tithe today.  I guess it makes them feel good.  It's an ego booster for them.  But at the same time, it is wrong to associate tithing on income with the scriptures.

It is great to GIVE a tenth of your income.  It is wrong to call that tithing IF you are inferring the Biblical tithe.

I think you might be hung up on the words.  If someone does the right thing and calls it by the wrong word, so what?

Whatever you want to call it, giving to others is beneficial, and doing so will help a person to prosper.  I call it "sowing and reaping," FWIW.

Jarrod

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Wed Sep 07, 2011 - 09:27:26

I think you might be hung up on the words.  If someone does the right thing and calls it by the wrong word, so what?

Whatever you want to call it, giving to others is beneficial, and doing so will help a person to prosper.  I call it "sowing and reaping," FWIW.

Jarrod

Very much hung up on the words.  The reason??  Because too many pastors teach tithing as a requirement, and when one calls their giving, "tithing," it can confuse those who believe you are doing what the Bible calls tithing.  It just helps the dishonest pastor continue with his lies.

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Wed Sep 07, 2011 - 09:27:26

Quote from: garyarnold on Wed Sep 07, 2011 - 01:07:05
Tithing is not a principle to begin with.  But there are GIVING principles in the word.

Tithing today is nothing but a scam.  It 100% man made.

The Biblical tithe was ALWAYS on God's miraculous increase of FOOD from crops and animals and NEVER on man's income.  To tithe on your income today has NOTHING to do with the Biblical tithe.

But I guess there are those that like to say they tithe today.  I guess it makes them feel good.  It's an ego booster for them.  But at the same time, it is wrong to associate tithing on income with the scriptures.

It is great to GIVE a tenth of your income.  It is wrong to call that tithing IF you are inferring the Biblical tithe.

I think you might be hung up on the words.  If someone does the right thing and calls it by the wrong word, so what?

Whatever you want to call it, giving to others is beneficial, and doing so will help a person to prosper.  I call it "sowing and reaping," FWIW.

Jarrod

Likewise...sowing and reaping Amen!

Quote from: garyarnold on Wed Sep 07, 2011 - 01:55:01
One simply cannot discount the accounts of countless people who have trusted God through tithing and received breakthrough after breakthrough, year after year, after year

Can one discount the accounts of countless people who have trusted God but do NOT tithe and received breakthrough after breakthrough, year after year?

Can one discount the accounts of countless people who are atheists but have received breakthrough after breakthrough year after year?

Can one discount the accounts of countless people who have trusted God through tithing but never seem to get any breakthrough, struggling year after year after year?

It is the trick of a pastor to parade those who tithe and have a testimony they attribute to tithing.  The pastor never parades all the other tithers who don't have a good story to tell.  Is that not dishonest?

You must've had a bad experience in this area...you're talking about pastors tricking people by parading tithers and all.

In my church tithing is taught, minus the curse, however no one knows who is or who is not tithing and even the pastor does not know nor does the tithes go to him.

In addition we never have services of any kind for the purpose of raising funds, building funds, youth funds. mission funds, church anniversaries, bake sales, chicken dinners, fish dinners, book sales, rummage sales...NO SERVICES TO RAISE MONEY at all  

If led, we are taught that anyone can bless anyone at any time one is led by The Holy Spirit through what is familiarly called the pentecostal handshake.  

Aside from that our church, though a small fellowship has birthed many many ministries and is involved in many good works overseas on several continents so when we sow into our church we know it is going towards supporting those missions and ministries.

Perhaps NOT BELIEVING a church is good ground to sow in is the problem some people are having with sowing, tithing or whatever you want to call it

Even at that when you are taught you are suppose to receive it as teaching from the Lord in the same way when you give you are supposed to give as unto the Lord

If you are in a Church where you do not believe God is speaking or working through the ministry, you are probably there for the wrong reason and is probably a place you probably shouldn't be.

Quote from: gospel on Wed Sep 07, 2011 - 11:14:34
Perhaps NOT BELIEVING a church is good ground to sow in is the problem some people are having with sowing, tithing or whatever you want to call it

I would think there are more than a few churches that ARE NOT good ground to sow money or resources into.  I've certainly had that problem.

Instead, now, I give directly to people who need something.  I find it is about 60,000 times more effective than handing it off to the bishop.  Being in charge of your own giving makes the experience more real.  It also elicits thankfulness in people you wouldn't otherwise see.  And it opens doors to relationships that would not otherwise exist.

Jarrod

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Wed Sep 07, 2011 - 21:00:12
I would think there are more than a few churches that ARE NOT good ground to sow money or resources into.  I've certainly had that problem.

Instead, now, I give directly to people who need something.  I find it is about 60,000 times more effective than handing it off to the bishop.  Being in charge of your own giving makes the experience more real.  It also elicits thankfulness in people you wouldn't otherwise see.  And it opens doors to relationships that would not otherwise exist.

Jarrod

Same here, Jarrod.  Jesus said when you help the poor or needy you are helping Him.

I have pretty much given up on the local churches.  Maybe the Spirit will direct me to a local church in the future, but for now, there are many I have attended that I will no longer step foot in.  I'm sure there are many good churches out there that teach the truth, and that handle the money from donations in a good way.  I just haven't found one yet.

When I became a Christian, I moved with the only Christian friend I had.  He asked if I tithed.  I told him, how could I?  That is $270 a month!  He told me, he made less money than me and he had a new fully furnished house and a new car and I was making more money than him and I did not have any debts exept a $200 a month rent (my car was paid).  He got my attention.  I started tithing and the blessing was so ridiculous, so overwhelming, that I started giving 18%.  You might think 18% is a lot, but it is not.  Check it out.

Immediatelly after I started tithing, the Lord got me a two bedroom apartment (paid 100% by the Lord), the Lord also paid for my gasoline, my phone, my electricity, for the two maids that came to clean, cook and and do the dishes in my apartment, he also paid for my water, the rental car, and on top of that, the Lord gave me $999 a month (in 1984!) for food ...tax free!!!!.  All of that was tax free and above my salary because I was on travel for almost 3 years.  So, you see, I could have been giving the Lord 100% of my salary and still live like a king.  So, giving 18% was really stingy in that situation.

During that period of time, I remember when my tithing was $270, I gave the Lord $700 one month and within two weeks I got a check for an award that after taxes I had $725 in my pocket, and I remember saying to myself, no matter what I do, I cant outgive God.  Another time I met a hispanic pastor in Burger King and he was with a friend that just quit his job to go preach the gospel in Mexico.  The man had 5 children, one with cancer and in spite of that, quit his job in the USA to go preaching to Mexico.  I remembered having $2,600 in savings, and I wrote that missionary a check for $2,000.  Within a month two companies wanted to hire me for 33% higher salary.  I said no to both companies.  My employer heard of the offers and decided to increase my salary 33% (unawares I had said no to the offers). 

This is how I got promoted.  My boss came to me and told me:  "They asked me if I thought you were worthy of a promotiion and I said no.  They asked the division director if you were worthy of a promotion and he said no.  They asked the department head if he thought you were worthy of a promotion and he said no.  But the Technical Director is forcing us to promote you and from this week on, you are now a GS-13. 

If God is for us?  Who can be against us?

This next part is the best part of my testimony.

After 2.6 years under that huge blessing, I decided I have been good enough (nonsense!!!!) and God would not mind (he didn't) if I did not give him anything for a year because I needed to save money to buy a house.  I did not give the Lord one single cent in a year.  Two weeks after I stopped giving to God, my travel was cancelled.  I had $5,000 in the bank when I started saving for a house. After a year saving, I did not save anything.  As a matter of fact, I lost the $5,000 I had at the beginning.  That was a great lesson for me.  I know what it feels like giving to the Lord and what it feels like not giving to the Lord. And it is far more fun to give, than not to give to the Lord.

The NT verses of 2 Cor 9:6-7 are true.  He who sows plenty, shall reap plenty. He who sows little, shall reap little.

I have not been preaching against giving to the Lord.  I have been teaching it is wrong to call it a law. 

Peace

Immediatelly after I started tithing, the Lord got me a two bedroom apartment (paid 100% by the Lord), the Lord also paid for my gasoline, my phone, my electricity, for the two maids that came to clean, cook and and do the dishes in my apartment, he also paid for my water, the rental car, and on top of that, the Lord gave me $999 a month (in 1984!) for food ...tax free!!!!.

What did your landlord say when The Lord came down from heaven and paid for your 2-bedroom apartment?  Did the Lord accompany you to the gas station to pay for your pas?  Did the Lord send a check, or cash, when paying your phone and electric bills?  How did he paid for the maids?

What a bunch of bull.

WE ARE ALREADY BLESSED WITH ALL SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS.
Ephesians 1:3 (KJV)  "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Wed Sep 07, 2011 - 21:00:12

Quote from: gospel on Wed Sep 07, 2011 - 11:14:34
Perhaps NOT BELIEVING a church is good ground to sow in is the problem some people are having with sowing, tithing or whatever you want to call it

I would think there are more than a few churches that ARE NOT good ground to sow money or resources into.  I've certainly had that problem.

Instead, now, I give directly to people who need something.  I find it is about 60,000 times more effective than handing it off to the bishop.  Being in charge of your own giving makes the experience more real.  It also elicits thankfulness in people you wouldn't otherwise see.  And it opens doors to relationships that would not otherwise exist.

Jarrod

Not taking anything away from what you said but ....

I have a friend who once touted to me the great work and giving of the Freemasons to which I reminded him that giving that does not glorify Jesus is not the same as giving that does...in other words my giving in my name means nothing in the advancement of the Kingdom

Giving in the name of Jesus causes the heart of some people to become tender toward the mention of His name and having been softened many are enabled and subsequently drawn by God unto a Saving knowledge of Jesus as The Christ, The Son of the Living God

So giving is one way HE IS LIFTED UP

Not saying your giving isn't doing that, I don't know and how you give is up to you, I'm just sharing how I understand it

And I must reiterate that if one is in a church where one questions whether or not it is good ground, it is very questionable why one would be there.

I for one would not

Any fellowship I attend and or tithe to would have to be involved in some aspect of missions, international evangelism, prison, street, shut in, convalescent, crisis intervention, disaster relief or medical services.......SOMETHING, done in His Name advancing the Kingdom, occupying new territory one person at a time

My thoughts  

Quote from: garyarnold on Thu Sep 08, 2011 - 10:52:17
Immediatelly after I started tithing, the Lord got me a two bedroom apartment (paid 100% by the Lord), the Lord also paid for my gasoline, my phone, my electricity, for the two maids that came to clean, cook and and do the dishes in my apartment, he also paid for my water, the rental car, and on top of that, the Lord gave me $999 a month (in 1984!) for food ...tax free!!!!.

What did your landlord say when The Lord came down from heaven and paid for your 2-bedroom apartment?  Did the Lord accompany you to the gas station to pay for your pas?  Did the Lord send a check, or cash, when paying your phone and electric bills?  How did he paid for the maids?

What a bunch of bull.

WE ARE ALREADY BLESSED WITH ALL SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS.
Ephesians 1:3 (KJV)  "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Manna to you Talking Donkey that was an excellent testimony simply excellent!

You are an inspiration to the Body of Christ!

I'm personally sick of testimonies by tithers.  There are MORE people with the same type of testimony that DON'T tithe.

Pastors like to have these tithers give their testimonies.  But do those same pastors ever have those who tithe but never seemed to be blessed up in front of the church giving their testimony?

Christians try to tie their blessings to tithing and it cannot be.  NO ONE is tithing per the Biblical commands.

I have NEVER tithed but always been a giver to those in need.  I have NO financial debts.  NONE.  House paid for with cash.  New 2010 luxury SUV paid for with cash.  Always helping others.  I AM NOT BRAGGING OR BOASTING.  I am merely saying whether one tithes or not has NOTHING to do with blessings.  When one GIVES from the heart, I believe they will be blessed one way or another.  When one calls it tithing, they are insulting God.  The Biblical tithe ALWAYS came from GOD'S hand, not man's income.

I follow God's Word not the false religion doctrines taught by so many pastors.

Quote from: garyarnold on Thu Sep 08, 2011 - 12:55:34
I'm personally sick of testimonies by tithers.  There are MORE people with the same type of testimony that DON'T tithe.

Pastors like to have these tithers give their testimonies.  But do those same pastors ever have those who tithe but never seemed to be blessed up in front of the church giving their testimony?

Christians try to tie their blessings to tithing and it cannot be.  NO ONE is tithing per the Biblical commands.

I have NEVER tithed but always been a giver to those in need.  I have NO financial debts.  NONE.  House paid for with cash.  New 2010 luxury SUV paid for with cash.  Always helping others.  I AM NOT BRAGGING OR BOASTING.  I am merely saying whether one tithes or not has NOTHING to do with blessings.  When one GIVES from the heart, I believe they will be blessed one way or another.  When one calls it tithing, they are insulting God.  The Biblical tithe ALWAYS came from GOD'S hand, not man's income.

I follow God's Word not the false religion doctrines taught by so many pastors.

Well alrigh-tee then!

Obviously you are not scared of a curse...keep your money and do with as you please

But why be so angry and bitter against those who want to do as they believe?

Soften your heart, tithe some tenderness why dontcha?   

Ahm jes sayin